MovieChat Forums > Sophie Turner Discussion > She is a terrible person

She is a terrible person


She is a fascist

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That word gets thrown around a lot, what did she do?

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It gets thrown around all the time incorrectly. Fascism is an economic model, but people use it as a synonym for bigot.

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You're confusing people with facts.

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Because people are dumb. Dumb being a word that isn't thrown around nearly as much as it should be.

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That isn't really correct. It can be used in several ways, but it's mostly a political ideology. I do agree it gets used as a synonym for bigot too often. Even in its loosest definition, it has nothing to do with that. However, it could be seen as controlling and totalitarian behavior from an individual, if you wanted to apply it towards a single person, but even that is taking a lot of liberties with the definition.

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Actually, fascism is a political model for controlling a population through domination of the press, violent suppression of political opponents, and alignment of industry and the judiciary. It's not a political ideology, as fascist tactics have been used by both the ultra-right (Nazis and the most recent two Iranian regimes, for example) and ultra-left (every Communist country in history).

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You basically said the same thing I did. Certainly more than one political party can adapt methods to be used in their personal ideology. I never specified it's application to any one group.

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Nazis are ultra right? lol since when? They've always been centrists.

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There are no ultra-Left or communist countries. Communism is an undefined ideal that was never meant to be real until probably around 60-100 years from now when Capitalism fails and it evolves in a form unpredictable at the time of its conception from the ashes of Capitalism which doesn't work, which we can see today.

Before now all the "regimes" we call Communist were just groups taking power with the promise of a worker's paradise, in the model of Hitler, pretending to have the peoples' best interests at heart but as soon as they see the US coming for them they have to become military, security states to protect themselves. That is Fascism too and your definition fits it pretty well.

The closest countries have gotten to Communism is the Social Democracies of Northern Europe, which is ( in my opinion ) one of, if not the major reason the US is taking such bold moves in Europe viz. Ukraine right now. And the fact that European governments are failing their people as America has already done since the 60s assassinations and the transfer of political power to to the monied elites.

We are trying to squeeze those Social Democracies away from the welfare state so our truly Fascist American government that represents nothing but expansionist hegemon Defense Contractors policies have ruined American society and are a government at war with the world - and return to the same Fascist policies that genocided native Americans and developed inhuman slavery as an art.

Fight the power, as they say.

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So she's a far-right, authoritarian who is also ultranationalist?

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Fascists are far left ...

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No.

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Yes.

https://fee.org/articles/fascism-socialism-with-a-capitalist-veneer/

The "right" principles: freedom, individual rights, free market, minimal state and minimal state intervention in society/economy.

Far-right would mean taken those to the extreme. Oh well, NONE of the "right" principles can be found in fascism but the majority of the "left" principles can be found in the fascist states.

Economy controlled by the state for the benefit of the nation and the people? Check. Authoritarian? Check. Controlled market? Check? Infringement of the freedom and the individual liberties? Check. Nationalism and suppression of the minorities? Check. Oversized state that controls every aspect of economy and society? Check.

Checkmate. What from I enumerated is a characteristic of the "right"? NONE!! All of those are characteristics for the left. You've been duped to believe that they are "right wing" :D

They are considered far right for the nationalism and the treatment of the minorities. You should read on the soviet nationalism and how they have treated the minorities. Or the North Korea nationalism. Or socialist China nationalism.

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No.

Look I can find a links too. https://home.heinonline.org/blog/2020/07/capitalism-socialism-or-fascism-a-guide-to-economic-systems-and-ideologies/

https://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/engl_258/lecture%20notes/capitalism%20etc%20defined.htm

This is why it's detrimental to simply think in just terms or right and left. Ideologies are more than just economics.

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I presented you more than economics.


"This is why it's detrimental to simply think in just terms or right and left. Ideologies are more than just economics."

I agree.

But do you agree that economically (at least) the fascists are to the left? At least we get to start somewhere. Even your first link places fascism between socialism and communism ;)

And then we can get to the other aspects.

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I did not see economically when I replied.

'In terms of economics, fascism incorporates elements of both capitalism and socialism. Fascist economists advocate for self-sufficiency and individual profit, but promote government subsidies of corporations. Fascist economics thus supports a blend of both private and public ownership over the means of production—there is an emphasis on private profit, but at the same time, the national interest is ultimately more important.'

This is from the first link

This is most economic systems

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Ok, if you insist that economically the fascists are "extreme right" then we stop here.

There is no point in continuing because you don't know the basics on what the right-left economic scale means and neither of us will convince the other.

"The right believes in free markets, the righter you go, the more the views tend toward “laissez faire”. The view here is that markets are the most efficient allocators of resources, and that as prosperity increases, the benefits will flow down to poorer levels. There is also a corollary belief that the poor are that way because of their own fault, and if they will just gird up and work hard, their lot will improve."

There is NO WAY fascist are a right wing.

"The left believes in monitored markets, in higher taxation to raise money for doing social welfare, in forced percolation of economic and social benefits down the ladder. The extreme left is the kind of socialism we saw in USSR and Mao’s China where the govt owned all the assets, and the ideal was “from each according to his/her ability, to each according to his/her needs”. But it was a remote government that decided abilities and needs."

This is LITERALLY fascism.

"The economic (left–right) axis measures one's opinion of how the economy should be run: "left" is defined as the desire for the economy to be run by a cooperative collective agency, which can mean the state but also a network of communes, while "right" is defined as the desire for the economy to be left to the devices of competing individuals and organizations."

Again, there is NO WAY that fascism is to the right on the economic scale.

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I never said that fascists were extreme right economically. I said that I didn't believe that fascists were left wing.

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Well, now after I presented all the data, do you believe or not that the fascists are, economically speaking, left???

And the fascists are NOT right wing economically HOW can you call them far-right???

If fascism doesn't support ANY of the right wing economics HOW can they be far-right???

And if fascism supports ALL the aspects of the left wing, economically, HOW can you still call them far-right???

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Because I don't equate fascism with economics. It's about power, and the way power is gained. The left is supposed to be for equality for all. Now I'm not going to debate if that's what it is or not because it's more complex. But of you are using simplicity, then that works. The key thing is that fascist politics is about identifying enemies, appealing to the in-group (usually the majority group), and smashing truth and replacing it with power.

Both the right and left have issues. Extreme versions of communism suppress liberty on behalf of radical equality. Extreme versions of right-wing politics, namely fascism, suppress liberty in favor of tradition and dominance and power.

You can disagree and that's fine.

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"Because I don't equate fascism with economics. It's about power, and the way power is gained. The left is supposed to be for equality for all. Now I'm not going to debate if that's what it is or not because it's more complex. But of you are using simplicity, then that works. The key thing is that fascist politics is about identifying enemies, appealing to the in-group (usually the majority group), and smashing truth and replacing it with power."

Boy, you need to learn some history.

"The left is supposed to be for equality for all." - I lived in a socialist country and this was a BIG lie. As Orwell said "All animals are equal but some are more equal than others".

"The key thing is that fascist politics is about identifying enemies, appealing to the in-group (usually the majority group), and smashing truth and replacing it with power."

Oh, how the Bolsheviks have done in USSR? How communists have done EVERYWHERE?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

China:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution

My grandfather was one of those "enemies" of the state, thrown in a communist prison for 7 years, wealth confiscated and my family thrown in the street. For a joke regarding the imminent arrival of the USA army.

My country was full of communist prisons and communist forced labor camps filled with "the enemies of the state" - a way to oppress, silence or kill political opponents (enemies of the state).

Really, you are ignorant of the history and the left's tactics to get power in all the communist countries if you can say something like this ... because those were basically the same tactics as the nazis and the fascists.

https://www.britannica.com/place/Gulag

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labour_camps_in_Communist_Bulgaria

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periprava_labor_camp

http://w3.osaarchivum.org/gulag/f.htm

http://w3.osaarchivum.org/gulag/f.htm

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Yeah, you ignored my second statement completely, and also disregarded that I said supposed to be.

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No, I didn't. But I disagree with it because fascism is NOT right wing.

And I can see that you ignore everything ...

And YES, things are more complex, but you still chose to simplify nazism to "far right". WHERE is the complexity in that???

Or you want to acknowledge all the complexities for the left, when they acted exactly like the fascists, and keep it simple for the fascists and just call them "right wing" although we kinda established that they have exactly ZERO in common with ... the right ;)

Curious double thinking.

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You sou like a moron. Only a moron would quote Animal Farm

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You're funny.

Did you google to find out where the quote is from? No need to answer that. I KNOW that you did, you ignorant swine.

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No because everyone reads Animal Farm in high school lmao

It's funny that you consider that advanced reading 🤣😂🙊😭🤓

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It's funny that you assume that I consider that advanced reading.

No, it's basic high school reading and everyone should be aware of it, that's why it's a perfect quote to use - most people should know what it's about and that's a valid critique of socialism. There's a bigger chance you never read anything else so ... made sense to use that.

You're still an ignorant swine and I'm sure you had to google it :P

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You are coming across as retarded tbh

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This is projection.

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Your mom is projection

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Sure thing fag

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Learn to use commas, retard

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If either of us had punctuated our sentences I might have taken you seriously, fag

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If either of us had punctuated our sentences COMMA

it's not that hard

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You forgot to use periods

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Ah, and I forgot:

"The key thing is that fascist politics is about identifying enemies, appealing to the in-group (usually the majority group), and smashing truth and replacing it with power."

Isn't this what the "left" in the USA is doing? Identifying enemies in different groups and smashing truth to replace it with power??

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"This is most economic systems"

wrong, only fascism and socialism enforced that level of control of the state on the economy.

Read a bit more on fascism, do it yourself, not just from biased sources.

And btw, most economic systems can be placed on the scale to the left or to the right of the center.

Fascism is economically to the left, plain and simple.

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I have read on fascism thanks. It's not the economics which concern me. I also see the world in more than left and right, as well as people.

I dont call Wall street fascist because they get bailouts from the government. Nor farmers. Again, so much more complex.

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"I also see the world in more than left and right, as well as people."

And still you call them "far-right" and contradicted me when I said that they are left.

And it's funny that you still don't accept their placement on the left-right economic scale.

But you are right, there is more to the world than "left" and "right" but then ... why do you insist on calling them "far-right"???

Most likely because you consider your self a "left" person and you don't like to be associated with the fascism.

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You are using a dictionary definition of fascist I used 2 years ago to reply to a troll post with no substance.

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I agree, this post of yours has no substance.

Finally we are in agreement about something.

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And there's the sinking to insults.

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He does that. He told me to kill myself because of a disagreement we had. He is quite the civilized person.

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More importantly, is Sophie Turner a terrible person and is she a fascist?

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Not sure I do not know her personally.

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The people of stupid demand to know!

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lol good one.

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I’m trying to make the phrase ‘people of stupid’ global, lol.

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I might steal that from you lol.

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Please feel free to use it as often as possible and encourage others. The people of stupid demand to be heard!

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Thanks for letting me know. I was going to reply with a more in depth response of how I define right and left and really think they are the same, but I don't respond to insults, so I won't bother. Cheers

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lmao sure ofc you were

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Oh yes, the person who called me a both a cunt and a faggot when they disagreed with me is weighing in on something that has nothing to do with them.

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Oh a public post on a public forum has nothing to do with me? Err wrong. I will comment on what I want remember?

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More importantly, is Sophie Turner a terrible person and is she a fascist?

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More importantly, is Sophie Turner a terrible person and is she a fascist?

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Well said, Asom.

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Fascists are right wing. Only right wing Americans try to redefine it - though I seem to remember Margaret Thatcher muttered something to obfuscate the distinction. Also, quoting from fee.org, "an American conservative, libertarian economic think tank", is as valid as someone believing the Daily Fail in the UK has a balanced view of Boris Johnson vs Keir Starmer - the respective leaders (at this moment anyway) of the right and left.

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I'm not American.

In my country history we had fascists in power AND socialists after that.

Plus: economically I'm left wing. I believe in "free" education and "free" healthcare plus strong safety nets.

And I do have a "right" side: I do believe in freedom, individual rights, individual responsibilities and I dislike in-group thinking and blaming others based on group.

So ... sorry but you are in the wrong. Deeply.

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They can't face the fact that they're the villains in this world.

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> The "right" principles: freedom, individual rights, free market, minimal state and minimal state intervention in society/economy.

This is Libertarianism as originally defined in America by the John Birch society. After many political losses those billionaires, led by the Koch Brothers and other Birchers pooled their money and started creating militant Think Tanks to harshly and violently implement the ideals put forward in the Powell Memorandum published and aimed at the elites. Tax cuts got the snowball rolling and expanding until these Fascists have control of everything financial in America, and most of the financially connected world.

They did it by spinning everything in terms of freedom, and following government policies of deregulation and tax cuts so that the burden of the welfare state feel disproportionately on the poor and working class through cuts in income tax for the rich, laws that restrict and criminalize people, framed as anti-minority laws, and promotion of regressive taxation which has allowed the rich to take over society with a hatred for the people.

All that stuff about the Right being for freedom is someone trying to blow smoke up Right-wingers' asses ... which I guess works because Right-wingers are such huge and wide ass****s, most of them being people who will never benefit from anything the Right-wing politicians actually do.

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Nope.

The idea of liberalism (and NOT the American liberalism but classical liberalism) is older than USA or than USA right wing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Liberalism is what the right wing represents, at least for me - as opposed to left which is obsessed (as you just pointed out) with state control and interventionism and less individual freedom. Libertarians are liberalism to the extreme ...

So maybe read more ..

But again: that's the problem with the rigid right-left scale that we have now. It's very ... muddied.

The left and right should represent movements that are opposite. Like more state on the left and less state on the right. But then we have other variables that make the respresentation ,,, weird. We even have the left = right represented like a horseshoe instead of a line, exactly because it is sooooo unreliable in precisely represent a position.

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Talking about Libertarianism, or don't you understand that?
Libertarians went after the Republican party to take it over because their
ideas were rejected by the people. There was a well documented point
at which the oligarchs said - the people don't like our ideas, so we have
to lie and frame things in ridiculous ways in order to fool them.

You appear to be one of the fools.

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Idiot, I'm not talking about libertarians. I don't care about libertarians. I don't give a shit about libertarians.

I'm talking about classical liberalism when I'm saying "The "right" principles: freedom, individual rights, free market, minimal state and minimal state intervention in society/economy.".

And as I said classical liberalism is older than American libertarianism.

Btw, I'm European so for me the American politics are shit and I don't really care about. That's why i'm talking about and I'm in support of classical liberalism and none of the dumb American ideologic shit, left or right.

You are the one that's focused on libertarians, like those are the only ones with those principles, you ignorant imbecile.

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You are what one calls a defective person. So sorry to disturb you and tweak your psychosis.

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I call a person how it is, sorry. And when you're talking about calling someone ... whatever, read your posts.

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Yes.

Time to wake up and leave the bubble...

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Which bubble is that?

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Actually, yes in the broadest sense. Democrats (and most leftists around the world) want a big authoritarian government, and that is what fascism is at its heart. Similar to communism in that respect.

I am more left leaning socially, but very anti-authoritarian, so I oppose authoritarian governments in all its forms, so I and people like me have to forge an alliance with the social conservatives (who just might install a theocracy if they gain too much power).

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Authoritarian governments are a product on both the right and the left.

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Nope.

Depends on how you define "left" and "right".

By the traditional definition right has as core principles freedom and individual rights, free market, minimal government. Again. BY DEFINITION.

A government that doesn't respect these core principles IS NOT RIGHT WING!!!! By definition.

What's your definition for "the right"??

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True, that is why two dimensions should be used to measure political ideology instead of one, but in the modern western world those on the "left", be it the dems, or labour, also tend to fight for an authoritarian government. Some people just want to be ruled over I guess.

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No.

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Yes.

Economically they are.

Left and right are quite meaningless if you don't specify the context.

Fascism (and nazism) are close to Saint Simon's socialism. Which is still socialism (and on the left) but different than Marxism

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looll no.

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looll yes :D

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no all of academia disagrees.

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the communist/socialist academia? Of course they do, that's the first thing they would do, they wouldn't like to be associated with those.

Some of them disagree with Stalin's atrocities and would brand him a hero. Some might even deny the Holodomor ... because they don't like their ideology thrown in the mud.

They would not accept that socialism had actually more victims than the Nazis.

Do you even know that Nazi Germany and socialist USSR invaded Poland in 39 at the same time as allies? And that they split the whole Europe between them? (Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact).

Socialism is a plight and it is on the same side as the Nazis. Economically (at declarative levels - the state is supposed to run the economy for the benefit of the people - in both systems) and all other issues at the practical level.

But again, you have no arguments because you're an ignorant ...

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no the right wing ones too. with the exception of libertarians.

you claim its the academia etc. where is academia denying the holodomor or even the fact Stalin killed more? that was the first thing we learned.

Do you even know that Nazi Germany and socialist USSR invaded Poland in 39 at the same time as allies? And that they split the whole Europe between them? (Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact).


okay and??? the US allied with the USSR afterwards. was the US now socialist commies too? now let me educate you clown on what actually demonstrates how the Nazis saw themselves politically as well as how others saw them.

-the Nazis ONLY formed domestic political alliances with other right wing parties, never the left wing ones. they not only formed a federal coalition government. but also worked with other right wing parties in provincial elections like in Prussia to beat left wing parties.

-After 1929, the DNVP co-operated with the Nazis, joining forces in the Harzburg Front of 1931, forming coalition governments in some states and finally supporting Hitler's appointment as Chancellor of Germany (Reichskanzler) in January 1933.

-Several high ranking nazi party leaders began their careers in the DNVP, a right wing party

-the Nazis were supposed to merge with the DNVP, another right wing party, but it fell through

-Initially, the DNVP had a number of ministers in Hitler's government, but the party quickly lost influence and eventually dissolved itself in June 1933.

-the nazis targetted socialists and communists as a group. they never targeted the right as a group

-every single left wing german party leader either fled or was killed once the nazis took power. EVERY SINGLE right wing party leader from other parties lived out their days in the

-All the left wing parties opposed the Enabling Act 1933, all the right wing parties voted for it.

HOW WEIRD!!!! the nazis saw themselves as at least temporary allies and ideological cousins to all the german right wing parties. and hated the left wing ones! including opening the very first concentration camp to house left wing political enemies.

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Yeah, in Romania post 1989 a lot of times the liberals (right wing) allied with the socialists to form the government. Because ideology and politics are only a way to get in power. Very few individuals in politics actually give a shit about people, they mainly want access to power and money.

Yes, politicians lie. And specially socialists.
Castro's wealth is estimated to be over 1billion $ - but Cuba is socialist.
Stalin based his power on lies.

So .. yeah, they do lie. Surprise. Socialists as well. I grew up in a socialist country and EVERYTHING was a lie.

Why did they oppress and fought socialists and communists? Because they fought over the same electorate.

"The party was created to draw workers away from communism and into völkisch nationalism. Initially, Nazi political strategy focused on anti–big business, anti-bourgeois, and anti-capitalist rhetoric; it was later downplayed to gain the support of business leaders."

Pretty left wing I would say and mainly opportunistic. Like all socialists :P

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yaaa you have fuck all.

i gave multiple demonstrations how the nazis saw themselves as right wing and the other parties as closer ideologically to themselves.

Your point of "Why did they oppress and fought socialists and communists? Because they fought over the same electorate." only makes sense if then like the SOviets, they went after their right wing enemies as a group.

BUT THEY DIDNT! the right wing were never targeted as a group! EVER.

"The party was created to draw workers away from communism and into völkisch nationalism. Initially, Nazi political strategy focused on anti–big business, anti-bourgeois, and anti-capitalist rhetoric; it was later downplayed to gain the support of business leaders."


https://commons.clarku.edu/strasslercenter_finding_aids/6/

you got this from a paper studying nazi post cards lol. ALso show me where the authors of the paper agree the nazis were left wing?

like TIkhistory. you quote mine academics, who all disagree with his conclusion.

you can leave now. its pretty clear you hate socialists (and rightfully) but its clouded your vision and now you buy libertarian Lies from losers like TIk.


ive offered to debate that bald loser. ive told him to publish. ive offerered to try and setup a debate with him and actual historian. he wont. hes a fucking coward. because he knows his librtarian lies would fall apart and do under any scrutiny.

i actually have a treasure trove of stupid shit Tik has said in reply to me in the comment section. want to see them??

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"only makes sense if then like the Soviets, they went after their right wing enemies as a group."

Read more, the soviets did the same, they eradicated the other left wing of their own party several times:

Mensheviks oppression, exile and trials.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1931_Menshevik_Trial

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

Weird, eh?

You just proved that you know nothing.

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are you fucking illiterate??

you have to be fucking illiterte right????????????????????????????

i said it "only makes sense if then like the Soviets(im admitting the soviets went after other leftists), they (the Nazis) went after their right wing enemies as a group."

thats the whole point, the Soviets persecuted both left and right wingers, to get rid of their close competition or at least a slightly different competing view on socialism (the Menshevics) and their ideological opposites (the capitalists and right)

the Nazis ONLY ever targeted the left as a group from beginning to end. even when they had absolute power, where was nazi version of the Trials or the great purge of right wingers as a group??????? it never happened because they didnt see them as enemies, they saw them as ideologically close.

so much in fact! they let a former right wing party leader retain his seat in the Reichstaag until the end of the war!

HAH.i dont need to do anything here. you destroy yourself with your stupidity.

but again you ignored 5 paragraphs of proof the nazis saw themselves as on the right, that other right wing parties saw them on the right, that the german people saw them on the right.

to then latch on to one thing you were WRONG about due to your iliteracy. keep going Asom. im loving making you my bitch.

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Dude, you are the illiterate one.

You asked why they went after the socialists/communists - because that killed their opposition.

Why did they collaborate with the right wing: A calculation to bring them in power and keep them in power. It's not the only time when left and right collaborate to get in power. They didn't have a majority and used a right wing party to create a majority. It always happens.

"the Nazis ONLY ever targeted the left as a group from beginning to end. even when they had absolute power, where was nazi version of the Trials or the great purge of right wingers as a group???????"

You idiot, the great purge and the mensheviks oppression was NOT against the right wing.

And again, read more, have you ever heard of the Night of the long knives???

https://www.britannica.com/event/Night-of-the-Long-Knives

They both used violence against their political opponents. Left and right.

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You asked why they went after the socialists/communists - because that killed their opposition

no i didnt you fucking retard. YOU SAID

Why did they oppress and fought socialists and communists? Because they fought over the same electorate."


YOU SAID THAT

to which i responded

only makes sense if then like the Soviets, they went after their right wing enemies as a group.



You idiot, the great purge and the mensheviks oppression was NOT against the right wing.


THATS MY FUCKING POINT. the Soviets went after both left and right. so wheres the right wing targeting as a group by the nazis???

LOLLLL the night of the long knives, while i dont believe was largely against the left parts of the party (it was largely more political in the sense the army wanted him gone), killed the most left wing elements of the nazis party>

you are proving my case once again like the idiot you are

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Learn to read.

"You asked why they went after the socialists/communists - because that killed their opposition"

You are the retard that cannot understand a simple phrase. NO wonder you don't understand anything.

That was YOUR question/argument - that they must be right wing because they attacked the left wing. After the - it was my answer/counter argument. Too hard for you???

Fucking imbecile.

"THATS MY FUCKING POINT. the Soviets went after both left and right. so wheres the right wing targeting as a group by the nazis???"

"you are proving my case once again like the idiot you are" you prove again how big of an imbecile you are.

In that night right wing leaders and elements were assassinated as well.

But when I call you on your bullshit you deny the reality.

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heres daddy tik explaining how North Korea is a democracy hahahahhahahahahahahah


Democracy is People Power. Except the People are the Public and the Public is the State. So Democracy is State Power.North Korea is a Democracy, because the State is in power. This is why the Founding Fathers knew that democracy was bad and called their government a Republic. Also, I explained all this in the video.

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my point was they went after the left as a group, and NEVER the right as a group.

the soviet comparison to the Nazis example doesn't work because they went after BOTH.

wow you are legit retarded. only one not understanding is you. your parents def beat you while your brain was developing LOL.

again show me the nazis targeting conservatives en mass as a group for being on the right? ill wait

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You're an idiot than don't understand cause and effect.

Nazis didn't go after the right wing as a group because they needed first to acquire power and that required getting the votes away from the left wing (which they represented) and needed to ally with the right to take power. After they got power they outlawed all parties, including the right wing parties. Go after what???

There was no right wing in Germany shortly after the Nazis got power.

You lack any logic and your arguments are deeply flawed and show your lack of knowledge and intelect.

Also there were not really right wing parties in USSR either. So they didn't really go after them. Russia jumped from monarchy straight to communism (socialism actually) so they never really had a "right wing". Usually the "right" that they went after was an internal opposition against some particularities. Read some more, again. You are really ignorant.

The main point is that both went after their opposition regardless of their side, but you are too blind/stupid to understand that.

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Nazis /fascism was an extreme right wing (as we understand the numberline) ideology. Not sure where people get this nonsense about it being left wing.

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Their policies are left wing. Their 25 points program are left wing.
Their ideology is left wing.

Can you point to me exactly what makes it right wing?

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i already embarrassed you on this. you refused to respond. sad

y your own link the mass rounding up and internment of commies and socialists started a week before the enabling act and continued well after, throughout the whole war.

So after the act was passed and the Nazis had complete power. So when did the mass persecution and roundup of conservatives take place??!! The “socialists” have total power right? So when are they going after the right and persecuting them systematically as a group? Ohh ya they didn’t

They even let 22 “non party members” sit in the reichstaag: including former RIGHT WING PARTTY LEADER OF THE DNVP.

Amazing! The “socialists” Nazi have total power and formed a totalitarian state. And yet they aren’t mass persecuting the right, in fact they are allowing them minister positions in their government and leaving them to live their life out peacefully in Germany. Weird that?

Also according to you the other German right wing parties will support the Nazis and enabling act to “stop socialists and nationalization” how??? by giving who you call socialists total power with the enabling act, a group who you say called for nationalization and you say laid out their socialist agenda in their 25 points??? Your narrative is falling apart quick. It’s what happens when you watched a 40 minute video and are poorly educated.

So really why would they do that? Oh right because the other conservative parties saw them as a right wing party. That’s why they formed a coalition government with them federally, its why a large chunk of Nazi voters switched from right wing ones; it’s why they worked with them in Bavaria to stop the socialists, it’s why the conservative DVP party tried to merge with them.

You should give me money for this education I’m schooling you on. You are an embarrassment to all thinking people and the human race

You’ve abandoned all logic to defend assertions form a YouTuber who convinced you a 40 min video could overturn the literal thousands and thousands and thousands of academics left and right wing, who have studied this for the last 88 years. A clown on YouTube who cherry picks and quote mines historians none of which agree with him! Even conservative Adam Tooze whose literal focus is Nazi economics.

You quoting a far libertarian is an embarrassing as me quoting a literal communist who just says anything not his pure idea of socialism is actually capitalism. It’s what tik does in reverse.

Tiks libertarian clown who thinks North Korea is a democracy, fiat currency means socialism, anything public including corporations are socialism, and that the drug opioid epidemic was because “individuals couldn’t choose because they are in socialism”. My conservative political science profs would laugh in his face at his child like redefinitions of basic terms.
2 hours ago

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Dude, I refuse to answer to you because your "arguments" are stupid and have NOTHING to do with reality or logic.

Your ONLY argument now, after I demolished all others is "why didn't they persecute right wing parties after they got in power".

I responded several times:

1. They outlawed ALL parties, including the right wing ones. That's a FACT. You saying that they didn't do anything to right wing parties is a lie.
2. In the night of long knives Hitler killed all his major opponents. INCLUDING the right.
3. Yeah, he needed allies to get and hold the power, as simple as it is.

Again, you don't fucking understand the difference between national socialists, who didn't call for outright nationalization, and marxists who didn't call for the seize of means of production but even the elimination of all bourgeoise.

Read again the 25 point program and try to understand what's in it. At no point is "abolition of all private property and seize all the assets" - just of some trusts, the program is even in support of the middle class and small firms - communists and socialists (marxists) are NOT.
Can you see the difference between that and Marxism? I guess you cannot, you proved to be THAT stupid.

Now GTFO. Maybe Tik is an idiot but you are a retard idiot.

And btw, the question was not addressed to you, imbecile. Ignored. Don't bother anymore.

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HAHAHAHAHAH you keep failing like their shrieking retard you are.

yet again you couldnt address anything so ill post it yet again and hopefully get an answer this time.

i already embarrassed you on this. you refused to respond. sad

y your own link the mass rounding up and internment of commies and socialists started a week before the enabling act and continued well after, throughout the whole war.

So after the act was passed and the Nazis had complete power. So when did the mass persecution and roundup of conservatives take place??!! The “socialists” have total power right? So when are they going after the right and persecuting them systematically as a group? Ohh ya they didn’t

They even let 22 “non party members” sit in the reichstaag: including former RIGHT WING PARTTY LEADER OF THE DNVP.

Amazing! The “socialists” Nazi have total power and formed a totalitarian state. And yet they aren’t mass persecuting the right, in fact they are allowing them minister positions in their government and leaving them to live their life out peacefully in Germany. Weird that?

Also according to you the other German right wing parties will support the Nazis and enabling act to “stop socialists and nationalization” how??? by giving who you call socialists total power with the enabling act, a group who you say called for nationalization and you say laid out their socialist agenda in their 25 points??? Your narrative is falling apart quick. It’s what happens when you watched a 40 minute video and are poorly educated.

So really why would they do that? Oh right because the other conservative parties saw them as a right wing party. That’s why they formed a coalition government with them federally, its why a large chunk of Nazi voters switched from right wing ones; it’s why they worked with them in Bavaria to stop the socialists, it’s why the conservative DVP party tried to merge with them.

You should give me money for this education I’m schooling you on. You are an embarrassment to all thinking people and the human race

You’ve abandoned all logic to defend assertions form a YouTuber who convinced you a 40 min video could overturn the literal thousands and thousands and thousands of academics left and right wing, who have studied this for the last 88 years. A clown on YouTube who cherry picks and quote mines historians none of which agree with him! Even conservative Adam Tooze whose literal focus is Nazi economics.

You quoting a far libertarian is an embarrassing as me quoting a literal communist who just says anything not his pure idea of socialism is actually capitalism. It’s what tik does in reverse.

Tiks libertarian clown who thinks North Korea is a democracy, fiat currency means socialism, anything public including corporations are socialism, and that the drug opioid epidemic was because “individuals couldn’t choose because they are in socialism”. My conservative political science profs would laugh in his face at his child like redefinitions of basic terms.
2 hours ago

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Daddy Tik created another imbecile who has to dodge. how sad

the night of the long knives killed CERTAIN individuals who had opposed hitler and were conservatives.

there was no mass systematic persecution of the right as a group like happened to the left. why? cause hitler was on the right and saw himself as so.


so why was the DVP, a right wing party, going to merge with the nazis?

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Liberalism is inclusive. Conservatism is exclusive. That's the litmus test for numberline politics.
Fascism is exclusive. It's a far-right wing authoritarian govt, by definition.

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So USSR and NK and China are far right authoritarian??

Stalin said that Russians are ‘first among equals’ in the Soviet Union. You can read on all ethnic pogroms and oppression in USSR if you are interested. Tatars, Ukrainians, Jews (lol, even Jews)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union
https://www.refworld.org/docid/3ae6a865c.html

They are exclusive. So by YOUR definition the far left is far right?

Interesting.

No, that's actually NOT the litmus test. Most left-wing politics are exclusive as well. Even the US liberalism is keen to exclude whites and give advantages to other groups. So ... extreme right wing?

Btw, classical liberalism (which is inclusive, unlike US liberalism) is right wing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

"In most countries, classical liberalism is thought of as a right-wing ideology.[16] In the context of American politics, "classical liberalism" may be described as "fiscally conservative" and "socially liberal"."

Technically speaking even US liberalism is right wing (as right of the center), we call it left wing only because it's to the left of republicans/conservatives.

Right-left dichotomy is outdated and frankly shouldn't be used anymore, should be replaced with a multivariable diagram. A lot of people even consider the left-right to be like a horseshoe that starts to touch at the extremes. It is this unreliable.

For me the main dichotomy in left-right is: colectivism, group oriented policies on the left and individualism on the right (and from that we can derive freedom, individual rights, free market, small government, etc). It frankly includes/coincides with the economic scale: colectivism on one side (left) opposed to individualism and free market (right). And if we look at it from this point it's clear why fascism and nazism are left, they control and use the economy for the good of the collective/nation/group/volk/people as opposed to letting the market free - just as the soviets (at least at declarative level, in practice it is fucked in both systems, fascism and socialist).

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I'm not a big believer in numberline politics because its self serving and anyone who really thinks has more complex beliefs than left or right. That said, I can barely make heads or tails out of some of what you posted. I said liberalism is inclusive. I didn't say leftism is inclusive. One problem is that you are using the fascist mislabeling of liberalism popularized by Rush Limbaugh although he was not the originator. Forget classic/American liberalism nonsense, liberalism is just liberalism. Fascists hate liberalism, democracy, individual liberty (that's why they hate the ACLU), and capitalism, which is why they worked so hard to redefine liberalism in terms of things Americans hate. All those things you hate about "the left" are not liberalism, they're not even progressive, and I'm pretty sure most of them have nothing to do with collectivism. You would do well to forget all that anti-American/anti-liberalism bullshit from Rush, Gingrich, and other fascists who want to weaken America while still fighting Communists like it's the Cold War.

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Sigh, you don’t even know what you’re saying.

So much bullshit in your word salad …

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So Conservatives don't hate the ACLU? An organization that fights for Indvidual rights? They don't hate liberalism, the ideology that gave us individual rights, democracy, and capitalism? They don't hate anti-fa, an unorganized group that occasionally assembles to fight fascism? 1960s Republicans like Thomas Kuchel weren't sounding the alarm that fascists, actual real fascists, were taking over his party? Feel free to jump in with your big boy intellect and tell me where I'm wrong. The truth is this ... you're not the hero of your story, you were suckered by fascists. Don't feel too bad, they scammed entire countries in the 1930s.

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Antifa are the real fascists. Their methods ARE the fascist methods.

I don’t care about conservatives. And you prove some of my points: that people on the same political wing can hate each other and that right or left are not monolithic. Just how the bolsheviks killed the Mensheviks while both being on the same side …
If conservatives hate liberalism that doesn’t make liberalism a left wing movement - and I mean classical liberalism since American liberalism have moved away from that. But even the American liberalism is not proper left wing, it’s still imho to the right of the center.

And I said already several times I consider the basic and simplistic left-right dichotomy that you are using reductionist and useless, needs to be replaced with a multi variable diagram. You consider nationalism as a right wing characteristic while all socialist nations had been nationalist as well, with Stalin being as worse, if not even worse, than Hitler. And it’s funny that both call themselves socialists. But everyone somehow forgets about Bolshevik nationalism …

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"Antifa are the real fascists"

That's daft.

What you call American Liberalism is not Liberalism, it's a fiction created by fascists like Rush Limbaugh. The sad thing is it was repeated so often that finally everyone started calling it liberalism but it isn't liberalism. It's the fascists undermining liberalism the same way the media undermined DeSantis with bullshit like the fictional "Don't say gay" bill. I've heard it dubbed "illiberal" by some old school liberals and that's about right.

We largely agree on numberline politics but people divide themselves into sides correspondingly so you can't just ignore it.

As for fascism, ... it was a time and place, like disco. And like disco, it's never coming back. But that doesn't mean it doesn't influence politics of today. American fascism isn't 1930s fascism but it's still a far right exclusive ideology.

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"That's daft." you stated that if someone calls itself something doesn't make it so. Like nazis calling them selves socialists or NK calling itself "democratic". The reality is in their actions. And antifa acts like the old fascists.

So American liberals are far right. LOL. And antifa - that basically is supporting American liberalism is, basically ... fascism.

In your views everyone is fascist :P. Well, classical liberalism is not. And it's a right wing ideology that supports freedom, individual rights, equality, etc. How can 2 ideologies so different be on the same side? And how come 2 ideologies so similar (socialism and fascism) are so far at the extremes? It's like left and right means nothing.

You: the left is progressive. Stalin: no, we are not, we throw lgbt people in jail and we are quite conservative in a lot of aspects.

You: the right is nationalist. Stalin: so are we, we oppressed a lot of ethnicities in USSR, basically Russians where above all.

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Like my wife, you take whatever I say, twist it, and throw it back. That's how dittoheads argue. Best of luck.

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hahahahha you sure went silent on this one. but i know you are too much of a bitch to admit you were wrong here.

Tikhistory really does attract the most sackless little bitches

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Wow, dude, get a life. Did you get your medication yet?

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ill post this again. since you ignored it like the bitch you are

-the Nazis ONLY formed domestic political alliances with other right wing parties, never the left wing ones. they not only formed a federal coalition government. but also worked with other right wing parties in provincial elections like in Prussia to beat left wing parties.

-After 1929, the DNVP co-operated with the Nazis, joining forces in the Harzburg Front of 1931, forming coalition governments in some states and finally supporting Hitler's appointment as Chancellor of Germany (Reichskanzler) in January 1933.

-Several high ranking nazi party leaders began their careers in the DNVP, a right wing party

-the Nazis were supposed to merge with the DNVP, another right wing party, but it fell through

-Initially, the DNVP had a number of ministers in Hitler's government, but the party quickly lost influence and eventually dissolved itself in June 1933.

-the nazis targetted socialists and communists as a group. they never targeted the right as a group

-every single left wing german party leader either fled or was killed once the nazis took power. EVERY SINGLE right wing party leader from other parties lived out their days in the

-All the left wing parties opposed the Enabling Act 1933, all the right wing parties voted for it.

HOW WEIRD!!!! the nazis saw themselves as at least temporary allies and ideological cousins to all the german right wing parties. and hated the left wing ones! including opening the very first concentration camp to house left wing political enemies.


where were right wingers and capitalists as a group systematically targeted like socialists ad commies????if conservatives and capitalists were the true enemies of the "socialist nazis"??????

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Socialists are left/far left. Nationalists/Fascists are what the Nazi party was. Communists is what the Soviet Union still is.

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Correct. With the exception that the Soviet union was not communist and it's still not communist. Not if you define communism as Marx did. They were socialist, more precise Marxist-Leninist.

And an adagio: Nationalism doesn't make a regime right wing. Plenty of socialists (even Marxists) had been nationalists. Including Stalin.

So the Nationalist Socialist party is a left wing party (although they are nationalist and you would tend to call them right wing based on that, but then Stalin and USSR must be right wing as well - they are not).

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The Soviet Union/Russia is now Putinist. I think he abolished Stalinism and Leninism a long time ago. Certainly the years of glastnost and perestroika are dead.

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That doesn't make them communist. Stalinism wasn't communist either.

Anyway, this thread is mostly about Hitler being a socialist ;)

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the soviet union was a command economy. call it what you want, marxist, socialist etc.

the current Russia is a corrupt mixed market oligarchy. but hardly a command economy like the USSR where every single loaf of bread or shoelace produced is dictated by the politburo.

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Googling her turned up an instagram account with a picture of Kamala Harris in it. Is that what you are referring to?

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It's not a political view that makes someone be a good or a bad person.

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Soooo, the Nazis who considered they were the master race and need to eradicate "lesser humans" were good people?
Communists who enslaved, murdered and starved millions were good people?

Thought so.

Modern leftists are a perfect example.

They want to dictate what you can say, think, feel and do. And if you are not in line, you will be destroyed.
They do so by force if necessary. Modern force. They slander you, get you fired, or destroy your life in other ways.

So yes, certain political views are a clear indication that a person is indeed a bad person.
Them liking cat videos does not change that.

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In these extreme cases yes. But as you say yourself, yes CERTAIN political views can do that. It depends at what degree you are ready to act on it or use it as an excuse to absolve yourself from fully taking responsibility for your actions. Will every leftist (read "not a rightist") be willing to destroy your life?

Thought so.

You can't use an extreme example to generalize and prove a point. There's a little something called nuance that everybody seem to have forgotten nowadays.

So no. A political view is not a good instrument one can use to determine if someone is good or bad. I feel silly just having to explain that to someone.

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"Will every leftist (read "not a rightist") be willing to destroy your life?"
Yes, that is why they are leftists.
I am not saying liberals, or people on the left - I am saying leftists.
They ARE the extreme and yes, they want that.

"You can't use an extreme example to generalize and prove a point."
And I didn't.

"So no. A political view is not a good instrument one can use to determine if someone is good or bad. I feel silly just having to explain that to someone."
You should feel silly, after all you're still wrong, despite best efforts to make you understand.

So yes, political views are a good instrument of measurement to determine if someone is good or bad, absolutely.
It all depends on WHAT the political views are, and that is exactly what I made clear with my initial post.

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Oskar Schindler was a member of the Nazi party.

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Yes, but he was no nazi. Learn the difference.

You think he was a party member out of conviction?
Then you need to read up on the topic of Schindler and the NSDAP, its benefits for members, and then you might see why Schindler was a member.

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LOL. He joined the Sudeten German Party and then became spy for the Abwehr.

Learn to know when you've been owned, simpleton.

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What exactly is your issue here?
You said he joined the nazi party to make an argument that "judging people based off their politics" is wrong.

I educated you, well I tried, that Schindler only joined the NSDAP to gain business-related advantages, the same reason he did what he did for the SdP.

He was a ruthless businessman.
But he was no nazi.

So yeah, go own yourself, kid.
What are you, 15? Jesus...

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LOL. He literally wanted to forced the Sudetenland to become part of the Reich.

You're a simpleton.

Shake it off, lad.

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Most Nazis were mindless bots, brainwashed dumb terminals for propaganda, convinced they were victimized which made it easy to get them victimize others. Just like dittoheads, feminazis, woketards, MAGA, and gendernazis.

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In some cases it is.

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We agree.

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Don't tell me, she owns a crocodile skin handbag.

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Oh, not fascist, but fas-chic!

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"She is a fascist"

By that do you mean an irrational, science-denying, hypocritical, intolerant leftist?

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That definitely describes Lefties -- the worst fascists of all.

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According to many scholars, fascism – especially once in power – has historically attacked communism, conservatism, and parliamentary liberalism, attracting support primarily from the far-right.[28]

Fascism is about as authoritarian as you can get ... far right wing.

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I would call fascism a far left movement. After all it was founded by a socialist leader.

Even the word "fascism" symbolizes colectivism ...

"The symbolism of the fasces suggests strength through unity (see Unity makes strength); a single rod is easily broken, while the bundle is very difficult to break."

"The Italian word fascio (plural fasci), etymologically related to fasces, was used by various political organizations in the late 19th and early 20th centuries with the figurative meaning of "league" or "union"."

It's considered far right due to it's nationalist characteristics but economically it is pretty much left, even far left.

Even politically it has a lot more in common with soviets and nazis (again, left oriented) than with the traditional right (liberalism, capitalism, individual freedom and rights).

Authoritarianism is again a common trait between socialists/communists and fascists/nazis. No, the right by definition cannot be authoritarian since the main characteristics of the right are freedom and individual liberties, free market, etc. It's asinine to argue that "freedom" to the extreme is authoritarian ...

Another common characteristic: nationalism and the treatment of the minorities. USSR conducted few genocides and ethnic cleansings but no one really talks about those.

https://fee.org/articles/fascism-socialism-with-a-capitalist-veneer/

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Careful, asom, you're going to send the Dems/Libs here into cardiac shock.

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lol what an utter pile of shit

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For a grown ass man you sure seem to prowl boards that arent in your wheelhouse pedo

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Yeah, and it's called your brain.

Funny how you couldn't bring even one argument.

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its called no historian, economist or political science agrees with you except afew far right libertarians.

i took poli sci in school. all of academia is my argument. not your historical reimagination.

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you took poli in school and you have no argument? No argument of your own?

Ok, I guess you failed, you didn't understand shit or you slept the whole course.

Did they teach you that Mussolini was a communist before starting the fascist party?

Have you ever read the 25 points program of the National Socialist German Workers' Party ( you know, the Nazis?)


Dude, you're a zero in politics.

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Have you ever read the 25 points program of the National Socialist German Workers' Party ( you know, the Nazis?)



LOOLLL did YOU READ the points???

https://www.vaholocaust.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/25Points.pdf

the first 8 read like a nationalist, right wingers wet dream.

#11 finally starts to sound more socialist

but #12 is basically an argument to confiscate the jews property.

13. We demand the nationalization of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).
14. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.

these points were not enacted in anyway. the term PRIVATIZATION was in fact invented for what the nazis did in the late 1920s when they literally sold off almost all government control in industries to private sector.


some points could be more "socialist", some not. hardly some socialist manifesto in any way.

also yaaa hitler woul never lie? politicians wouldnt lie right?

yes and the Nazis used socialist rhetoric to appeal to workers. infact most of the old quotes you can find by high ranking aprty members published in newspapers "just so happened" to take place months following up to elections.

after the 1933 March elections, all socialist rhetoric stops. completely.

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"the first 8 read like a nationalist, right wingers wet dream."

And that's a problem with your assessment (and the academia).

USSR, China, NK, most socialist countries were actually VERY nationalist.

Read on those and how they treated minorities and other nations, like Ukrainians, Moldavians, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars

So based on that is the USSR right wing?

Is North Korea right wing?

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0193723509350609?journalCode=jssa

And btw, somehow NK's Juche is framed by a lot of people as ... fascism.

"Juche has been described by critics as a nationalist ideology and a departure from Marxist–Leninist principles. B. R. Myers, Michael J. Seth, and Max Fisher go further and argue that Juche has more in common with Japanese fascism and ultranationalism than Marxism–Leninism."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_nationalism

"Stalin's policies established a clear shift to Russian nationalism, starting from the idea that Russians were "first among equals" in the Soviet Union, escalating through the "nationalities deportations". According to scholar Jon K. Chang, the Bolsheviks "never made a clean break from Tsarist-era nationalist, populist and primordialist beliefs".  Russian historian Andrei Savin stated that Stalin's policy shifted away from internationalism towards National Bolshevism in the 1930s."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bolshevism

So a left wing regime becomes "right wing" if it's nationalist? Can you see the problem with that approach?

https://www.democratic-erosion.com/2022/03/07/romanias-pds-and-pnl-a-marriage-of-convenience/

"Another thing to consider is since the PSD has an extensive history of corruption and intense nationalistic behaviors, giving them more power is a risk. They could very easily slip back into their old patterns and erode democracy through election fraud and other forms of corruption as they had done in the past."

PSD in Romania IS a left wing party AND a LOT of their members are ex-members of the communist party. And still ... nationalistic behavior? That would make them extreme right wing in your view?

The problem is mainly that the right-left concept is very muddied and incomplete and has changed over time, the spectrum needs at least 3 axes. Like economic, social issues, authoritarianism, nationalism.

Because using nationalism to decide that a regime is "right wing" would make EVERYONE right wing.

So, no, you are wrong asserting that nationalism automatically makes a regime "right wing".

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"these points were not enacted in anyway. the term PRIVATIZATION was in fact invented for what the nazis did in the late 1920s when they literally sold off almost all government control in industries to private sector."

"Privatization" was NOT in the 1920s. They were not even in power in the 20s.

Was mid 30s. And those privatized were still under the control of the state, they didn't sell the control, as you said, but the "rights of property" while maintaining control.

Privatization was mainly after the initial nationalization because the government was broke and needed money.

"Shortly after the Nazi regime took power on 30 January 1933, Junkers-Motorenbau GmbH and Junkers-Flugzeugwerk AG became the objects of the new “Reichskommissar für Luftfahrt” (Reich Commissioner for Aviation), Hermann Göring, whose employment Junkers had rejected ten years earlier. Put under great pressure, Hugo Junkers had to hand over the majority of the remaining company to the German Reich in 1933. Junkers was banned from the house and the city and had to leave Dessau. Hugo Junkers died on 3 February 1935 at age 76.

In 1936 the companies were merged to form Junkers Flugzeug- und Motorenwerke AG. The aircraft that were later used in the war from 1939 onwards – such as the Ju 87 or Ju 88 – were built under state control; with their smooth fuselage construction they had nothing in common with the design that Junkers had coined and cannot be attributed to him."

Privatization, eh?

You've been fed lies ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKIYuOxxZWs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLHG4IfYE1w

This guy says is perfectly: Hitler socialism is a socialism base on race, Marxism is based on class.

Hopefully if you watch those 2 videos you will understand. He provides a lot of relevant information and sources.

If you still disagree we should stop here. Good night.

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HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHA

you get your info from TIKhistoy.

this is exacly the libertarian BS artist i was talking about hahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahah

wow man enough said.

ive obliterated TIk multiple times and he doesnt provide shit. he give etymological voodoo.

you do know tik defines socialism based off the latin words for private and public??? and says that anything public is therefore sndacalist and socialism???

he even says corporations are socialism. and that anything not the single individual is socialism.

HAHAHAHA you went full retard and ate up the libertarian historical reimagination hahahahahha

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Dude, you obliterated nothing. He is right 100%.

He provides arguments and sources, you don't.

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thats all you got? "nah uh"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

no redefining socialism how he did is utter nonsense. in his public vs private video he says anything not private is public and therefore syndicalist and socialist. based off the 1700 definition of the latin meanings of private and public. that is BULLSHIT. words change, using this etymological nonsense to try and redefine the term how he wants so broadly into existence is disingenuous.

its equivalent to me taking the etymological orign of the word capitalism, which was i believe Capita, which refered to a head of cattle. and trying to apply that 1700 years later and claim that "capitalism is only when one trades in cattle"

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"no redefining socialism how he did is utter nonsense." he is not redefining socialism.

Socialism started way before Marx and there are more forms of socialism. And that's a fact.

If you think that Marxism is the only form of socialism you are quite ignorant. Read more, start with Hegel.

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YES IT IS. redefining the term so broadly, in a way that no one uses, so that every single thing except the private individual is syndicalist, public and therefore socialist IS REDEFINING SOCIALISM.

read his quote here

""Private means 'individual', while hierarchies of society (nations, unions, syndicates, corporations, States, governments etc) are 'public' https://youtu.be/ksAqr4lLA_Y So, as you correctly point out - Public States like corporations and courts do rule against the individual on a daily basis. We call this rule by central body 'socialism'."

no everything not private is socialist. this is utter fucking nonsense. a corporation is not socialist. your local gardening association or soccer team is not socialism. Moviechat isnt ran by a single private individual. Moviechat is socialist?

you are dumb as hell man

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Wow, you are an idiot. Dude, get your medication, and I MEAN it.

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https://youtu.be/mLHG4IfYE1w?si=dfnr3hR7TTfKKRDs

@7:25

Heres Tik embarrassing himself, and contradicting his entire argument and philosophy that anything public is syndicalist and socialist.

marxists claim that hitler crushed the trade unions. which somehow proves that he wasnt a socialist. even though Lenin did the exact same thing. But its a distortion of the truth. Everyone who worked in a factory be they employers or employees, had to be a member of the DAF. this was the nationalized trade union of the 3rd reich... making it one of the biggest trade union in history. any PRIVATE UNION that refused to be nationalized into the DAF was crushed


DID you catch that????? PRIVATE UNION. how the fuck in his world view could a syndicalist public trade union be private??????? according to him it was already socialist

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Yeah, he makes the distinction here between a state run trade union (public) and one that's not run by the state (private).

Are you too dumb to understand that??

He might use some terms more liberally than you like and without context it doesn't even matter, you take some phrases out of context and conclude some stupid shit.

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Yeah, he makes the distinction here between a state run trade union (public) and one that's not run by the state (private).


both are public, both are syndicalist and both are socialist under his definition.

again, since your illiteracy is showing


"Private means 'individual', while hierarchies of society (nations, unions, syndicates, corporations, States, governments etc) are 'public' https://youtu.be/ksAqr4lLA_Y So, as you correctly point out - Public States like corporations and courts do rule against the individual on a daily basis. We call this rule by central body 'socialism'."


neither trade union was private, either the DAF or ones it took over. they are public and socialist according to him.

for real Asom im not being mean. you are legit fucking retarded. I feel bad for your family having to raise such a disabled child.

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Idiot, you are the illiterate one. Even if he means that it doesn't mean that I agree with him on that you imbecile. And still I think he was literally mocking you since it's obvious you're not the brightest bulb. And you build your arguments on out of context phrases and strawmens.

Can you fit in your small brain that if I agree with someone on one aspect it doesn't mean that I agree with on EVERYTHING.

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it doesnt matter if you agree with him on everything.

this demonstrated the utter incoherence of his entire beliefs around the nazis and what he claims are socialism.

so how can his video be right if his entire foundation is wrong and he doesnt know what hes talking about>??????

HAHHAHAHAHA and there is is again "out of context out of context out of context"

you really are a little bitch and have to dodge every time i trap your daddy Tik huh?

HAHA what let in your life to you being such an intellectual cuck for other people and the mental gymnastics you will do to defend their clear lack of understanding and incoherent foundation.

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noice how you ran like a bitch from this one.

because i demonstrated his entire foundational argument of public vs private that is how he defines socialism is utter nonsense. and that he is inconsistent

you ran away from this though because you know it does.

so AGAIN????? how could the former german trade unions be private under tiks definition???????????? they were already socialist. how then could it be a private trade union????????? he said unions are socialist. he also said corporations are socialist.

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Here s TIks response in the comment section to me when i asked how anything could be private since we live in a state


Capitalism is private ownership. Since you must pay taxes on property, income and business revenue, that proves that you don't own your own property, income or business. You're only renting property from the State. You're a working slave to the State, which is why you have to pay them when you earn anything. And the business isn't yours, which is why they can dictate to you that you must pay minimum wage to you employees, or say how you have to run things via regulations. We don't have private ownership, we have State ownership. Karl Marx himself defined capitalism as the system where money is chased for the sake of having money by the capitalists (Das Kapital volume 1). However, he also said that money (capital) is a commodity. Well, since we do not use commodity money (gold or silver) as our means of exchange, by Karl Marx's own definition, we do not have capital, and thus, cannot have capitalism. Karl Marx also called for central banking in the Communist Manifesto. Why? Because he wanted to use a fiat currency system rather than money (gold and silver). That's where we are right now. We live in a fiat currency world - meaning that we live in a central planner world (Socialism).


but before that he said to me in the comments

Sweden certainly isn't socialist


LOLL so which is it????? this is what happens when you follow unhinged libertarian con men. they ahve to build such a flimsy house of cards that is their ideology, because it doesnt make sense. it becomes more and more unstable as they have to constantly take more and more insane positions.

notice the unhinged Libertarian response. LOOL this is the guy you think is an authority on economics and political science???? and has disproved the entire left and right wing consensus of political scientists, historians and economists on Nazi germnay. i love when dumb people quote even dumber more unhinged people

my multiple conservative profs would have laughed in Tiks face if he said this bullshit.

i ahve a treasure trove of these insane replies from your daddy Tik :) he gets even more and more crazy somehow

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"Sweden certainly isn't socialist"

And it's not.

And in that reply he was just mocking Marx, nothing more. He was detailing Marx's views applied to the state today, not his. He even says so several times, do you even understand that?

I would laugh at anyone that considers nationalism as the solely way for a regime to be right wing.

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yet his own other comment contradicts that!!!!! and he constatnly contradicts himself.

you are a fucking clown buddy like TIk.

heres another gem :)

this is Tik responding to me saying why we need courts and police by a government to ensure that society functions since the private sector cannot have its own courts.


Okay, let's assume that a free market can only work with State control. This means we're no longer able to talk to each other, since the State has not sanctioned our conversation (state control of the means of production - we are producing words). The fact that we're able to talk without some commissar giving us permission to do so, is a testament to the fact that humans act on their own free will without the need for guidance from some central organized society - the State. Similarly, property is myself, whatever I own, the money in my pocket etc. I don't need a State to sanction that I have things. I have things because I create or trade with other individuals for things. Don't need a State for that. You list a corporation or a court doing things, and then proceed to call them 'private'. Private means 'individual', while hierarchies of society (nations, unions, syndicates, corporations, States, governments etc) are 'public' https://youtu.be/ksAqr4lLA_Y So, as you correctly point out - Public States like corporations and courts do rule against the individual on a daily basis. We call this rule by central body 'socialism'. You're literally arguing against your own side. Individual control is called 'capitalism'. A state does not enforce that I get paid if I work for someone else. If a business decides not to pay me, I don't turn up to work the next day. In fact, nobody will turn up to work for someone who doesn't pay, and the business will soon go out of business. We work because the agreement between individuals says - you do this for me, and I'll do this for you. We don't need a State to enforce that - it happen naturally (by "Nature" to use Marx's terms). A State wants monopoly control so that individuals do not have the ability to make such trades, and are under total control by the States, corporations, monopolies etc. I am a capitalist, which is why I'm against corporations, states, monopolies. I am a capitalist, therefore I'm for the individual worker, the self-employed worker, the small business owner, the contractor, the gig economy, the private individual (no matter their skin colour or their gender). Socialists on the other hand are for monopolies, corporations, states, their race, their gender etc, against other societies, states, races and genders. Saying 2+2=4 is not ideological. What I'm saying is not ideological. I'm just stating facts. Denying that you or I are individuals, denying that the words we use have meaning, denying that logic and reason are logical or reasonable, all because you BELIEVE that you're right and that the alternative is wrong because YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OPPOSITE ARGUMENT IS SAYING AND WON'T LISTEN TO IT is why your ideology is blinding you. If you want to have a glimpse of reality, listen to the alternative argument. This video provides it. You just have to actually listen and pay attention.



you heard it here!

"You list a corporation or a court doing things, and then proceed to call them 'private'. Private means 'individual', while hierarchies of society (nations, unions, syndicates, corporations, States, governments etc) are 'public' https://youtu.be/ksAqr4lLA_Y So, as you correctly point out - Public States like corporations and courts do rule against the individual on a daily basis. We call this rule by central body 'socialism'."

everything not private is socialism. in your own Daddys words.

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"yet his own other comment contradicts that!!!!! and he constatnly contradicts himself."

His other comment was a paraphrase of Marx words, NOT his ideas, can you even read?

In what you quoted again I see more ideas taken to the extremes and mostly a critique of socialism - usually in socialism the state needs that kind of extreme control.

But buddy, if I agree with him on some points doesn't mean that I agree with him on everything.

He is right 100% that Hitler was left wing and socialist (NOT Marxist). And I'm NOT basing my ideas on his, I just found him yesterday and in those videos he 100% just proves that, no matter how wrong he could be in other aspects.

Btw, you do realize that communists are supposed to be anarcho-libertarians, a system with no state, no government, etc. Socialism (in Marx's views) is supposed to be a just a transition period.

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he calims sweden isnt socialist.

while saying later in his explanation that all these things are socialist. hes contradicting himself.


In what you quoted again I see more ideas taken to the extremes and mostly a critique of socialism - usually in socialism the state needs that kind of extreme control.



No the issue is everything is socialism under this definiton. you arent this fucking stupid are you?

But buddy, if I agree with him on some points doesn't mean that I agree with him on everything.


youve claimed hes such a genius hes overturned all of academia. and yet its easily disprovable libertarain hogwash


He is right 100% that Hitler was left wing and socialist (NOT Marxist). And I'm NOT basing my ideas on his, I just found him yesterday and in those videos he 100% just proves that, no matter how wrong he could be in other aspects.


you are fucking stupid. lol TIk has another dummy he duped hahahhahaha

Btw, you do realize that communists are supposed to be anarcho-libertarians, a system with no state, no government, etc. Socialism (in Marx's views) is supposed to be a just a transition period.


you do realize this has nothing to do with the topic right? and you are moving goalposts because you cant address what i said?

again. Daddy tik talking nonsense

"You list a corporation or a court doing things, and then proceed to call them 'private'. Private means 'individual', while hierarchies of society (nations, unions, syndicates, corporations, States, governments etc) are 'public' https://youtu.be/ksAqr4lLA_Y So, as you correctly point out - Public States like corporations and courts do rule against the individual on a daily basis. We call this rule by central body 'socialism'."

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hahah love how you ran away from my comments. its clear you know you have nothing and gave up

Private MEANS 'individual', while hierarchies of society (nations, unions, syndicates, corporations, States, governments etc) are 'public' https://youtu.be/ksAqr4lLA_Y So, as you correctly point out - Public States like corporations and courts do rule against the individual on a daily basis. We call this rule by central body 'socialism'."


corporations are socialism??? unions are socialism???

only thing private "MEANS INDIVIDUALS"

LOLL you drank the libertarian koolaid. i feel bad for you

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Again, you take things out of context. I doubt he means that in that context and I bet that he mainly was mocking Marxism.

Also, are you too fucking stupid to understand a simple thing: again, if I agree with him in some aspects it doesn't mean I agree with him in everything, you idiot.

But I see that you make this logical error.

"while saying later in his explanation that all these things are socialist. hes contradicting himself." - no he said that Marx would consider those "socialist"

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HHAHAHHAHAH im not. i gave you the full quote.

you are so fucking dumb man. the amound of mental gymnastics coping you have to do to defend Daddy tik is hilarious here.

"what he said he didnt really say. he may have said that but he didnt mean what he said!

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA again

Private MEANS 'individual', while hierarchies of society (nations, unions, syndicates, corporations, States, governments etc) are 'public' https://youtu.be/ksAqr4lLA_Y So, as you correctly point out - Public States like corporations and courts do rule against the individual on a daily basis. We call this rule by central body 'socialism'."


hahaha your retardation is taking over Asom.

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You're an idiot. "The full quote" that means nothing without the context.

If I give you "a full quote" like "he calims sweden isnt socialist."

And I say as a response "you're a fucking idiot, he is right, Sweden is not socialist".

You fucking imbecile.

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i gave the context fucktard. aww your poor parents having to take care of your disabled brain your whole life

"Democracy is People Power. Except the People are the Public and the Public is the State. So Democracy is State Power. North Korea is a Democracy, because the State is in power. This is why the Founding Fathers knew that democracy was bad and called their government a Republic. Also, I explained all this in the video".

LOLL tiks words. the guy who is such an expert on political science hes disproven the entire academia hhhahahahahahhahahahaha

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Yeah, that's stupid. As stupid as I believe that he is mocking you :P

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mental gymnastics from the retard.

honestly did your parents beat you when you had a soft skull?

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heres another Gem from TIk

after i sent him a link to a video explaining how the influx of "legal" pills was due to a lack of regulation and the private market being able to self regulate and do what it wanted. this was his response


"Billionaires "legally" pushing drugs on people is the problem of Socialism. Free individuals (capitalists) would be able to say "no" to the drugs. But "legally" (State control, Socialism) forces these slaves into doing what Socialism wants. Yet, somehow, this isn't seen as a problem of State Power, but as a problem of the individuals who don't want to take these drugs? Thus, the Socialist calls for more State control, which will result in more drugs coming your way. If only the market (the individuals) could decide what to do with their own bodies.

"

LOLL this is your Daddy

oh he also claimed North korea was a democracy

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I would see that as mocking you.

"after i sent him a link to a video explaining how the influx of "legal" pills was due to a lack of regulation and the private market being able to self regulate and do what it wanted. this was his response"

Nope. In USA is a direct result of state regulations and the private market NOT being able to self regulate and do what it wanted.

Is it socialism? Of course not.

I would call it a corporatist state. An extreme capitalism. The exact opposite of a fascist state.

North Korea calls itself a democracy, it's in their constitution :P

Yeah, it is not, practically, like any socialist state. But it pretends to be - like all socialist states. I bet it's another bad interpretation on your side.

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hahahah you fucking idiot.

Nope. In USA is a direct result of state regulations and the private market NOT being able to self regulate and do what it wanted.

the drug companies in this case were allowed to do not only their own tests but their own recommendations about how to prescribe the drug, as well as how to tell doctors how to prescribe it.

it was lack of regulation

damn man you are a waste of space. you fail at everything you try

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No idiot, it's the opposite: the corporations control the state in USA and so they impose the regulations that they need and want to. Of course they don't want to regulate themselves too much but tend to overregulate other players.

As an example: due to regulations you cannot legally import and sell a drug in the USA.

Another example: insulin market. The regulations are what permit big pharma in USA to sell insulin for outrageous prices while almost prohibiting competition.

Damn man, you are an idiot that doesn't understand anything. Really.

Have you ever heard of FDA? CDC?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Food_and_Drug_Administration

Both charges of underregulating and overregulating stem from the same problem: a corporatist state, a state that is controlled by corporations and the issued regulations would benefit those corporations.

https://ethics.harvard.edu/blog/risky-drugs-why-fda-cannot-be-trusted

If you are too dumb to understand it, sorry.

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so under regulating wouldnt be too much socialism. Like TIk said. Corporations having too much control and making sure there wasnt over regulation, isnt socialism.

in other words tik is a fucking idiot. but you cant ever attack daddy Tik. damn hes really made you an obedient little cuck hasnt he

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I said in some occasions that if he meant what he said it's stupid.

As stupid as is more likely he is mocking and shitting you.

But you cannot read, you are too dumb and illiterate ...

And where the fuck did I say that is was socialism??

You mate are an illiterate imbecile and you're only rambling around at this point because you practically lost the battle and your only goal is to make tik sound like an idiot so you feel better, hahaha.

Tell me again how Stalin is right wing because he was nationalist (since all academia says that all nationalists are right wing and you agree with them). Or NK. They stop being left wing because Juche is 100% nationalist. Right?

You fucking imbecile with 0 critical reasoning.

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yes and ts stupid because it demonstrates his entire foundation is wrong.

you dont know its more likely. you dont now what the fuck you are talking about

i can aparetnyl read its why i destroyed your nonense.

HAHAH i lost the battle by demonstrating the nazis saw themselves as on the right, the voters saw them on the right, and the other right wing parties saw them on the right.

I didnt say that made stalin right wing. i said those points could have been some right wing nationalists wet dream. so if they could be used that way too, they are hardly exclusive to socialism and DO NOT PROVE the nazis were socialists.

you should have been aborted.

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Btw, do you know what social democracy is?
And that is considered by many to still be ... socialism and it actually split from socialism? But it is proper capitalism.

Or have you heard idiots like Sanders saying that the Nordic model is socialist?

So these views are quite common among your idiots, they just want (and fight) to align socialism to good things and separate it from appalling events, like Hitler.

The mental gymnastics are on your side.

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which has literally nothing to do with anything said here.

HAHAHAHAHA more mental gymnastics to run away. you are pathetic

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It's weird (no it's not, you already proved your really limited intelectual capacity) that you don't understand why I bring that up.

I'm not surprised.

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yes my limited intellect, by completely evicerating your nonsense.

things you agree on with Tik "see he showed they are socialists!"

things you know are nosnense and shows he is wrong "omg hes just trolling you!! he wasnt serious!!"

copping out like the bitch you are cause you cant admit daddy Tik is wrong.

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Right and left comes from ... https://www.history.com/news/how-did-the-political-labels-left-wing-and-right-wing-originate

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True, and those do NOT apply to current situation at all. Right and left had been redefined several times after the French revolution and it kinda is the time for to re-asses the position of some governments ;)

Also:

"Today the terms “left wing” and “right wing” are used as symbolic labels for liberals and conservatives,"

That's valid in the USA.

In Europe liberals are the right wing and there are no "conservative" parties (generally speaking, I think UK had one). In Europe we still use "classical liberalism" when we talk about ... liberalism. Not the perverted USA one ;) (although it can be argued that the US "liberalism" is still on the right side of the center and so it's not really "left" like, at all, if we are using the right sale)

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Left and right are used to create political tribes that rob the populace of power and give it to extremist political voices.

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Interesting. So, what are the societal or political characteristics associated with "left" and "right" positons in current USA society?

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in USA you have:

Republicans "the right"
Liberals "the left"

But these are very subjective and not too precise. US liberals I would say that they are to the right of the normal "center" so they are still "right wing", with the exception of some social policies that are very "left", so called "social marxism".

And I think that they manage to build those tribes around social issues rather than economic (as someone noticed the workers in USA are not that poor so the class warfare didn't make sense so the focus is on "we are oppressed" vs "you are the oppressor") and indeed it has led to some idiotic extremes ...

Although lately they try to push the idea that the majority of people are ... poor (lol) and only the 1% are "rich".

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they try to push the idea that the majority of people are ... poor (lol) and only the 1% are "rich".


I don't think that's been "lately." This has been going on for a long time. I believe it's due to The Left fomenting hatred of The Right via class warfare. It's a lot easier to message (via politicians and the news media) that the citizenry should believe they are "poor," it is the fault of The Right that they are, and they have no hope to change that on a personal level. The economic remedy that is pushed is to advocate for more money from the government and more pushes for "reparations" (also from the government).

But, that's where the social issues overlap with the economic ones...in this example, not only are the The Rich richer, but that's because (in their messaging) all of The Rich are Whites who have repressed minorities, have for hundreds of years, have not made the lives of minorities better, have continued that repression, and have no intention of doing anything to make the lives of minorities better in the future.

Therefore, the message is that it is "good" to hate Whites, and The Left benefits from that hatred.

So, regarding social issues, which of those do you attribute to The Left and which do you attribute to The Right?

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Both sides lie when it comes to social issues.

Imagine voting democrats because you were told that racism is a problem in USA and Trump is racist and the right is racist and blacks are killed by white cops and democrats are the solution. And all that while pedaling on Floyd's dead and their constituency doesn't even realize that Floyd was killed in state/city that were run by democrats for 50 years, with a democrat and BLACK chief of police.

So it's kinda hard to pinpoint them based on left-right.

Traditionally on social issues left is more progressive and group oriented while the right more toward traditional values (things proven to work) and individualism - although there are some issues that that tend to be group oriented on the right side as well, like religion.

Both ides seem to be focused on "it's only my way or you should die" although I see this view more and more on the left and less and less on the right.

PS: left and right as we call them now.

PPS: politicians are NOT interested in solving problems but in creating problems that they pretend they can solve. "Hey, you see this problem that we don't have?? Yes, it is a problem and if you vote us we will solve it".

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I would argue that liberalism, the belief in individual liberty, individualism, equality, is dead in America. What is called liberalism now is how it was mis-labeled by Rush Limbaugh and other American Fascists from the 60s-today.

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I would argue that you're right :D

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In the US, Left is generally associated with Democrats, Progressives, and Socialists (often mislabeled Liberals). The Right is associated with American Conservatism (which was infiltrated by American Fascism rebranded) and its various offshoots (MAGA, Proud Boys, etc.), a small minority of Anarchocapitalists (American Libertarianism), a smattering of Liberal Republicans that generally hide as Social Libertarians, a few so called fiscal Republicans that tell themselves they believe in small govt and low spending.

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ok, I can see some merit in your assessment ..

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