Finally a major blockbuster that isn't woke
At least people say it's not. I haven't seen it yet.
shareVERBAL VOMIT.
share
MovieChat Forums > Spider-Man: No Way Home (2021) Discussion > Finally a major blockbuster that isn't w...
neontaster, one of my favourite twitter follows, posted this:
"Spider-Man: No Way Home is an anti-cancel culture movie and I'm not even joking."
i'm not sure what he meant, but he's a smart guy, and i miss things in movies all the time that other people see, so i'm taking him at his word.
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Yet you had to bring it up anyway. Why can't people just enjoy a movie like they did when they were a kid anymore. Just talking about the characters, action and story? nah you gotta yap about wokeness and shit.
shareWhy can't Hollywood simply make movies for people to enjoy like they used to? Why do they have to shove their leftist ideology down out throats?
sharetruth. every major movie these days has some sorta of weird liberal logic in it.
shareYup, just like in Aliens when Ripley had to rescue the squad because the guy in charge was too afraid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTQOe9PvuQk
Oh wait. That was in 1986, before people labeled things as "woke" to place themselves in a tribe of grievance.
I thought the 80's was sexist???
Plus the difference, as you know, is the film didn't portray her success and his failure to be a product of their gender.
Aliens was indeed progressive from this point of view but was backed up with actual story telling.
Name a big-budget action movie that portrayed her success and his failure to be a product of their genders.
Force Awakens didn't do that. Captain Marvel didn't do that either.
Star Wars ST ... LOL what a fail.
shareYes, you failed.
Nothing in the Star Wars sequels showed any superior ability as being a product of gender.
They're all used to just jerking each other off, they're rarely ever asked to defend any of their arguments
Don't expect a reply, they're almost like animals
I mean, if I have strong feelings about a political/social issue, I take the time to learn about it and to articulate why I feel the way I do. These people can't or won't do that. They just like screaming into the void
True.
shareOh, but they did.
You see, in Aliens they are both human, with flaws and problems and pluses.
Ray and Cpt Marvel were perfect because they are female.
"Tribe of grievance"...I love how simple and astute this is.
There's a subreddit called "PersecutionFetish" that's full of this kind of mentality and it can be cathartic to browse...at least the comments, anyway. If you haven't done much branching out, Reddit might be someplace you'd be interested in. You seem too smart for this crowd, anyway.
haha fail, that was Alien 2, it was already established that Ripley was a badass. plus it was never pointed out that she was a female and had daddy issues. now Captain Marvel was extremely woke, the just a girl scene? super woke...
sharehaha fail, that was Alien 2
Lol, you dumbass. The sequel to Alien is called Aliens, not Alien 2.
Funny how you failed by falling straight onto your face while claiming someone else failed. share
I said Alien 2 cause you thought it was the first Alien, which is just called Alien. By Alien 2, Ripley is a badass. but then again, liberals dont like strong women. they all threw fits when Rey was kicking butt too.
shareHollywood has always been on the left. Your point being?
shareI loved the past in aliens when Ripley stared into the camera and said, "women can do anything!" Fantastic!
shareI lived when James Cameron (director of Aliens) gave interviews saying that everyone that didnt like Ripley are just sexists and should be silenced. Oh wait, that only happens nowadays.
shareIt must suck to be a sensitive snowflake who gets offended by something as silly as a black or female superhero.
shareStraw man argument. Nobody is offended by that. What people don't like is changing the existing race and gender for political reasons.
shareIt really depends. There are situations when it makes sense, and situations where it is a horrible idea. Peter has had 2 black girlfriends, and it worked really well. In the cast of Liz, it was actually a really good misdirect in the story, as you would never have guessed that She was Adrian Toomes' daughter. In the case of MJ, the original character was annoying as hell, so a change was a good thing, and Zendaya plays the character really well, so why not. Flash Thompson was a bland generic character in the comics, and the Flash in the homecoming movies is must more interesting and funny. It is true that in the comics there is a dearth of non-white characters, and changing generic characters is absolutely fine. Not every single character in the comics is a great character.
The problem comes when changing characters that are iconic and everyone loves, and even worse, making their race or gender an integral part of the character's identity. This is why both Captain Marvel and Black widow failed, because they made both movies about the "woman" experience. Captain Marvel has sexist men telling her she can't make it as a pilot, and sexist Jude Law telling her to get her womanly emotions under control. Black Widow is about Harvey Weinstein exploiting little girls.
Now Black Panther on the other hand walked a fine line. While it does bring race into the story, it is more about Black Panther being an inspiration to Black people around the world, but race is not an issue for the character of Black Panther himself. He is the prince of Wakanda, and everyone in Wakanda is black. So it just about holds together.
Rule no 1: stay faithful to the original characters, and make sure they are being done justice first. Don't sacrifice them to prop up "diverse" characters
Rule no 2. Story is the first priority. Write the story first, and if "diverse" characters fit in the story, then you can do it, if they don't then don't. Don't start with "the message" and then write the story.
Peter has had 2 black girlfriends, and it worked really well.
It's interesting that these people in Hollywood so often promote mixed relationships between Whites and Blacks but but seldom between other races and never relationships between Jews and gentiles. Hmm as tough they had a political agenda. share
"mixed relationships". Lol. What an odd phrase. Both of peter's "black" girlfriends have a white mother, so they are as much white as they are black.
Did you miss the relationship between Cersei and two white men in The Eternals? Maybe you didn't see it, that is understandable. She has a white mother too. Do these women have to find partners that are of exactly the same racial mix, or are they always in "mixed relationships" or is mixing only when there is a white with a non pure-white?
Mixed relationship is not an od phrase. Hollywood promotes it among Whites, but seldom among other races and never among Jews and gentiles. The point stands. They want their race pure, but everybody else to mix. It's pure hypocrisy, especially considering Jews are the ones suffering from genetic diseases due to lack of genetic diversity. If anyone should mix, it should be them.
shareWhat? If a white person is in a "mixed relationship", then the other person has to be non white. So both races are mixing. Or is your complaint that there are no Asians in relationships with Blacks? In real life Asians are very racist towards black people, which is why it is rare to see in real life.
shareI have no idea what you're talking about. A White non White relationship is race mixing just like any other combination.
shareLol.
I was replying to what you said, but you have no idea what I'm talking about.....
So you have no idea what you are talking about? These are your words "Hollywood promotes it among Whites, but seldom among other races ". Think about it and get back to me.
Yes they do. How many Black Asian couples or Hispanic Asian couples or Black Hispanic couples do you see in movies and compare that to Black White couples. And how about Jewish gentiles? I'm waiting for them to make a movie how "bigoted" it is for a Jewish family to reject a Black person like they did it so many time for Whites. They want Whites to mix but not themselves.
shareUm. You realize "Jewish" isn't a "race," yes? There are Black Jews, Asian Jews, Latin Jews, Native American Jews, Hawaiian Jews. . .and yes, "White" Jews.
Rhetorical question. You don't have to strain yourself.
Also note its usually white male black female relationships and rarely other way around.
shareFinally? Bahahahaha!
shareMost new blockbuster movies are. Especially with superheroes.
shareLike making movies with those pesky girls and minorities as main characters?
shareNobody has a problem with women and minorities. I haven't seen anyone complain that Blacks are featured in Shaft or that women are featured in Sex in the City. People have a problem with forced diversity for ideological reasons and replacing traditional White characters with Blacks for ideological reasons.
shareDon't create a straw man. The OP has a point. The overwhelming majority of films released in the past decade or so make it a point to shoehorn politics in at every turn, often to the detriment of the quality of the film.
shareWhat's at least a little ironic about your statement here is the sheer volume of posts that any given person has to sort through, has to shovel through here...that have to do with pointing out "woke" plotlines in movies.
So much so that it most often feels like being able to point to something as being 'woke' is its own reward...its the means to your own end...feeling clever, maybe? No depth, no discussion, just an "aha!" moment that often seems to hinge on reading waaay too much into what often amounts to basic plotlines that we've seen many times before.
I don't know...it often seems like self-fellating behavior and after awhile its difficult to not feel a little bored sifting through it all. Wish people would use their energy for more productive stuff than literally imagining things to get worked up about.
There are definitely many who look for the slightest thing at which to be offended, but it's hard to turn a blind eye to what's been going on in film and television in the past decade or so.
shareYOU AND THE OTHER ALBINO BASEMENT DWELLERS ARE THE ONLY ONES TO SEE ANY OF IT...PERHAPS YOU HAVE TO BE A VIRGIN TO EXPERIENCE THIS WOKENESS?🤔
shareWhy is it always insults being thrown at anyone who points this out? Is it part of being in denial about something so obvious that you have to resort to this to avoid admitting the truth? It doesn't make you a bad person to state that Hollywood has been openly pursuing a political agenda for a long time, and in recent years that agenda has been in overdrive. Do you not believe this to be the case? It's okay to have a sane, polite discussion about it. Or do you need to pretend I'm something I'm not in order to make yourself feel better?
sharePEOPLE TEND TO CALL INSANE PEOPLE NAMES...RIGHT OR WRONG...THAT'S HOW IT GOES,YA WHACKO.
share'ALBINO BASEMENT DWELLERS'
this nails me 100%. ouch.
and you can add me to the list of people who hate the endless parade of pandering woke messaging that is in practically ever single bloody movie.
so many films are so stuffed with simplistic racial pandering, pandering to women. and hatred of men. they can't let a second pass without reminding you of how rotten and disgusting men are, how we only deserve contempt and death.
maybe they're right. i dunno. but i'm really really tired of being told what a worthless piece of garbage i am all the time. and how pure everyone else is.
I LOVE YOU...BUT THAT'S FULL ON BULLSHIT...I WATCH AS MANY IF NOT MORE MOVIES THAN ANYONE HERE...I DON'T SEE PANDERING...I DON'T SEE HATRED...IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE SOME PERSONAL ISSUES TO WORK OUT...ISSUES THAT ARE COLORING YOUR VIEWING CHOICES.
shareoh jeez, if we start talking about all my problems, i'll be going way past my character limit.
but i think this is something that is absolutely steeped in not just movies, but all areas of culture. we swim in perpetual messaging of racial grievances and feminist grievances and grinding resentment and hostility to men. i think this is so glaring to be almost self-evident.
happy movie-chatting to you anyway.
"The overwhelming majority of films released in the past decade or so make it a point to shoehorn politics in at every turn, often to the detriment of the quality of the film."
Is that so? The overwhelming majority of blockbusters are political now?
Turn on Netflix and try to find something in their recommendations that isn't.
shareBoy, did you shrink from that challenge.
shareYou must have spent the last hour scrolling through Netflix unsuccessfully searching for one non-woke film or show to mention.
shareHow about Mindhunters. They did cancel the show though.
share*Coughing* strawman!
shareTrue!
shareDepends on what you mean by “woke.” J. Jonah Jameson in this movie is a not-so subtle dig at Alex Jones, and Electro has a conversation with a certain character at one point about how he hopes there’s a black Spider-Man somewhere in the multiverse.
share"and Electro has a conversation with a certain character at one point about how he hopes there’s a black Spider-Man somewhere in the multiverse."
Not really woke.Just a nod to another established Marvel character (Miles Morales).I hope major movie studios take note of this movies profit.This is what happens when you focus on story telling and characters and not identity politics.
There was even a damsel-in-distress scene where the male hero saves the beautiful girl by catching her in his arms; a harmless movie trope that has come to form the sin qua non of entire gender studies curricula at major U.S. universities
shareYeah I guess SJWs would be more happy if men treated women like shit.
shareDune wasn't that woke either. A few of the characters were miscast for woke reasons, and they switched "jihad" to "crusade" because Hollywood loves to flip-flop Christians with Muslims for some reason, but I don't recall anybody going out of their way to slip in a line that references modern real-life politics, like that female robot in Solo: A Star Wars Story.
Dune may not have been nearly as profitable as Spider-Man, but it was still a major blockbuster.
Major blockbuster may be a stretch. Has it even turned a profit yet?
shareNot as of this post I think, but in addition to making at least $390 million, it reportedly also had many viewers on HBO Max, for what that’s worth.
I should’ve also mentioned Godzilla vs Kong and Fast & Furious 9 as other major 2021 blockbusters that weren’t too woke.
I havent seen GvK but FF9 was pretty woke and tried to push hard on the family doesnt work everyone be liberal agenda.
shareThey don't want to offend muslims with that dirty word "jihad". That and a lot questionable changes in the move.
shareDune was pretty "woke" if were using that word. You even pointed out one of the reasons. Not that Dune would have been good even without it. The universe internal logic is not valid. And whenever that is pointed out the fans just go "nyah nyah but the author said this is how it works". Id argue its even worse than Star Wars and should really not be considered sci-fi, just fantasy. Not everything in space is sci-fi. Especially if its missing the "Sci" part.
shareWhile those points were worth mentioning, I still didn’t think Dune was that woke overall. It felt more like they genuinely tried to make a good movie while being forced to obligate certain quotas.
I also didn’t think FF9 was that woke either. It had a diverse cast, but that alone isn’t woke. Same with Godzilla vs Kong.
FF movies always had a "diverse" cast. After all Diesel himself is half-black to begin with. However after Paul Walkers death the movies just kept getting less on characters and more on ideology pushing. They just arent fun any more.
Dune... i think they put the effort to make it good. Its just that the source materials werent that great to begin with and then you add in the quotas.