Kathleen Kennedy is the producer?
The Nazis lost?
Phoebe Waller-Bridge's character?
A black FBI agent who is the only moral person amongst trigger-happy Germans?
White people are evil Nazis?
Haven’t seen it but it sounds like the younger female character makes all the right decisions, is great at everything and makes the hero protagonist look like a pathetic, washed up old man. You know kind of like what MaRey Sue did to Jake Skywalker.
shareMaking all the right decisions? No. Far from it. She does make a very right decision near the very end, though.
shareIt seems Helena Shaw is just another Rey, I hope that's not the case but all the evidence is pointing in that direction.
shareNaah, she's not what you think. I'd say more, but I'd rather not spoil anything for you.
shareAre you saying Helena has force like powers? And is her father or grand father actually Hitler himself?
shareYes.
shareThanks for the spoiler
shareYeah, Indiana Jones has also cut himself off from archaeology and spends his days sucking boob milk out of a cow, Helena is the one who has to inspire him to do what's right and return to archaeology.
shareWhat Indiana Jones does has little or nothing to do with archaeology. He's a treasure hunter.
share[deleted]
Not really.
shareSo then Dial of Destiny doesn’t turn Indy into a joke like The Last Jedi did to Luke?
shareIt's a similar setup, but done better.
First, Helena is a flawed, selfish character. Indy is older and depressed, but he goes on the adventure with her to reclaim an artifact that meant a lot to his old friend.
His willingness to sacrifice himself to save Helena helps her arc to basically not be such a shithead. She, in turn, helps Indy to realize how much his friends and remaining family still care about him.
The older/depressed Indy may be a hard pill to swallow if you're a fan of the happy ending of KOTCS. But this movie doesn't do to Indy what TLJ did to Luke.
What's infuriating about TLJ is Luke has the Force, can wield it effectively, and chooses not to. Indy is older, can't fight as well as he used to, but he does it anyway.
Luke's drinking of the green tittie-milk is clearly meant to show Luke in a bad place. Interpret it how you will: emasculated, infantalized, humiliated. Whatever you call it, it's not what Star Wars wanted to see. The Samson and Dalila story has Samson metaphorically emasculated by having his hair cut. At the, he re-emasculates and redeems himself. The problem of TLJ is that Luke's redemption is a cheat. It turns out he never actually leaves the island, sending his astrally-projected tulpa instead. To add insult to injury, Luke drops dead for no apparent reason. This happened on top of Han Solo dying like a chump, Luke only appearing in the last minute, the Luke-Leia-Han Trio never actually meeting, and Carrie Fisher dying in real life. Oh, and they killed off Snoke leaving the series with no villain. So, with all these bummers, having Luke depicted in such a way was bound to cause a backlash and it did.
shareBecause young, strong, brunette, beautiful, intelligent, gifted, take charge... Marion was none of these things in Raiders, and Leia was none in Star Wars?
shareNope. Just saw it. Sure she knows her stuff and is a dick to Indy (at first) because she thinks Indy had directed her father. But at the end of the film she comes to care about Indy and actually helps him...
shareI haven't seen it but Helena Shaw is the lead and Indy plays second fiddle to her. No one wants to see sad depressed Indiana Jones at 80 years old.
shareHelena Shaw is not the lead. Indiana Jones is. Indiana Jones does not play second fiddle to her. I have seen the movie. Twice. Don't listen to those idiots on YouTube.
shareIt doesn't matter if the YouTube videos are true are not. Indy 5 failing is the ammunition needed to hopefully get Kathleen Kennedy fired.
shareThanks for articulating that the hate for Dial of Destiny is disingenuous and actually about hating what Kathleen Kennedy did to Star Wars. I also hate what Kathleen Kennedy did to Star Wars. But I loved Dial of Destiny.
shareThe hate is not disingenuous.
DoD is a horrible movie.
The writing was abysmal.
They destroyed Indy’s character.
And Waller-Bridge is utterly unwatchable.
I’m guessing you fell asleep both times - which would be understandable since the movie is a coma-inducing train wreck.
The mere fact that Phoebe Whatta Bitch has been crowbarred into Indiana Jones is enough of a reason to stay away.
Then you see clips of her boasting about being ‘beautiful, self-sufficient’ and it’s clear that this is another Kathleen Kennedy self-insert - a GirlBoss who puts our straight white male hero in his place. This absolutely confirms that this film must die and that you have a moral duty to not buy a ticket.
Finally, there’s the smarmy ‘then I stole it… that’s capitalism’ quote, which stinks of Commiefornia propaganda. At least there’s the delicious irony of a film that shits on capitalism tanking at the box office 🤣
I also hated the "that's capitalism" line in the trailer. It actually put me off seeing the film at all, but my brother dragged me to it. I ended up loving the film. The Waller-Bridge character is a crook, so her "that's capitalism" line makes more sense with that context. Really stupid to put it in the trailer, though.
shareWell, at least the film is tanking while the low-budget non-woke film The Sound Of Freedom is skyrocketing. The message that audiences are done with woke couldn’t be clearer. Let’s hope Hollywood is sane enough to adapt.
Sound of Freedom had a sensible budget with a creative, effective, and economically sound marketing strategy.
DOD had a bloated budget and ridiculously expensive marketing, almost guaranteeing a flop.
I don't think the film is particularly "woke" (like when people falsely accused Captain Marvel of being "woke" because they confused the real life actress's posturing with the ACTUAL material on-screen in the film, the latter being harmless '90s nostalgia fluff and cute cats)
If anything, Indy 5 has the opposite problem, SJWs are demonizing it because a white British guy (John Rhys-Davies) is playing a middle eastern Muslim man. Nobody had any problem with it before, but of course, they find it "problematic" in today's era and I'm sure they're spewing their usual "only real life Muslims should play Muslims" bull. It REALLY irks them that John Rhys-Davies is not only a white British guy, but actually very pro-Christian and anti-Muslim in real life. Granted, it wasn't like the film just cast him out of the blue... he's a "legacy character" from the 80s, so they felt they "had to" include him. But regardless of the reasons, it's driving the 'woke' crowd nuts.
Indy 5 has much bigger problems, like making an 80 year old the star of an "action" movie, trying to recreate the magic of 1980s era filmmaking with CGI, a stupid, tacked-on ending, and so on.
he's a "legacy character" from the 80s, so they felt they "had to" include him. But regardless of the reasons, it's driving the 'woke' crowd nuts.
Maybe, but I've not heard this complaint voiced particularly loudly or frequently in regards this film. Can you link any YouTube videos or news articles about DoD making this complaint?
Here are some examples:
https://screenrant.com/indiana-jones-5-john-rhys-davies-return-egyptian-white-actor-mistake/
https://www.newarab.com/features/can-indiana-jones-overcome-its-orientalist-past
https://mronline.org/2023/05/04/indiana-jones-hollywoods-chief-colonial-pilferer-is-back/
https://www.newarab.com/features/nonsensical-new-indiana-jones-drenched-yellow-filter
Yes, I've heard about it, but it's getting zero buzz online and certainly isn't a significant contributing factor to this film's failure. I've watched literally 100s of both pro- and anti-DoD YouTube videos (where most average people get their news and opinions these days, not print media) since the film's release, and have literally never heard this raised as a serious objection. It's a dumb objection in my opinion, for what it's worth. Sure, you could argue people on the left are downplaying it to protect the film, but the fact is I'm just not hearing it used to attack the film outside of some lame print media that has gained little traction anyway.
shareDisagree about the "stupid, tacked-on ending." I love the ending. They took a big swing with that, and for me it hit. I love grandiose, over-the-top endings in my Indy films. And the coda was beautiful.
shareMiddle Eastern people are considered Caucasian, and Jonathan Rhys-Davies is pretty dark-looking. Apparently some liberals want to declassify Middle Eastern people from being Caucasian and include them among people of color. If they are neither accepted among black Afrocentrics online nor white liberals, then what are they exactly?
Egyptian girl ABUSED for speaking up on cultural appropriation(EXPLICIT)share
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4fFtZ9JBEw
EXPOSING ABUSE, HATE, RACISM and the attacks I've been getting from them ever since I started speaking up on cultural appropriation
When the female protagonist had to proclaim that she's a strong and independent woman it felt a little woke. It's more clever and not so much in your face if you just show and don't tell. Besides, why do the strong & independent woman always have to have manly attributes like being aggressive, risk-taking and physical strong?
But other than that the movie didn't feel woke.