MovieChat Forums > General Discussion > Can we say that cinema is a product of "...

Can we say that cinema is a product of "white culture"?


Tessa Thompson, a biracial actress, said she doesn't want to turn up to set and "see a bunch of white people or white men".

Did it ever occur to her that cinema has its origin in white culture?

As in white men who invented cameras, lighting equipment, sound recording equipment, etc etc?

White men who founded movie studios?

That the industry sees the skills passed on from white fathers to white sons?

But apparently her as a non-white female wants the industry to change what it is so she can feel more comfortable on set.

Imagine if female blacks had invented cinema and a white actor said "I don't want to turn up on set and see a bunch of black people or black women, I want diversity".

Let that sink in.

reply

Everything in life has 'culture' attached to it, right?

reply

Silly talk like that will wreck a pretty good career

She should put a cork in it and work with anyone who hires her

reply

If she feels uncomfortable seeing white people where she works and wants it changed so that there are more black people.

There is a word for that.

reply

Affirmative action hiring

reply

Psychopath.

reply

Originally Cinema involved putting several STILL PHOTOS together that created the ILLUSION of having a MOVING PICTURE as a way to tell a story.

Prior to that there were also other ways that people used to tell stories using ILLUSIONS.

This link, for example, describes SHADOW PLAY which was used by the CHINESE as a form of storytelling

http://english.sina.com/life/p/2009/0806/261144.html


A brazilian man takes photographs of a show of shadow play (traditional Chinese ancient form of storytelling and entertainment using opaque, often articulated figures in front of an illuminated backdrop to create the illusion of moving images) during the seventh puppet festival in Brasilia, capital of Brazil, on Aug. 5, 2009. As an invited special guest troupe, China's Tangshan shadow play troupe presented several shadow plays with traditional Chinese flavor here on Wednesday. (Xinhua/Chen Weihua)


So LET THAT FACT SINK IN before you try to ELEVATE the STATUS of the WHITE RACE -- which is also NEW to the use of STORY TELLING that uses MOVING IMAGES.

Because the CHINESE were also doing the same kind of thing for THOUSANDS of YEARS prior to the time that MODERN CINEMA began telling stories with the use of FILM.

Shadow play - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_play


>>Shadow puppet theatre likely originated in Central Asia-China or in India in the 1st millennium BCE. By at least around 200 BCE, the figures on cloth seem to have been replaced with puppetry in Indian tholu bommalatashows.


📽🎥🎬




reply

I wouldn't necessarily say that a different artform with elements similar to cinema means that cinema got its start from shadow puppets.

reply

No one is saying SHADOW PLAY (NOT PUPPETS) is where the CINEMA got it's start. What one is saying is CHINA and/or INDIA were using SHADOW PLAY 200 YEARS BCE or before the BIRTH of CHRIST (BCE stands for BEFORE the COMMON ERA) as a way to TELL STORIES (which is what both SHADOW PLAY and CINEMA do).

Then later on SHADOW PLAY turns into the use of the PUPPETS in INDIA.

But since CINEMA was actually the use of PHOTOGRAPY (a string of STILL PHOTOGRAPHS all strung together to create the ILLUSION of MOVEMENT taking place), that also means technically speaking CINEMA also got its start from PHOTOGRAPHY.

https://www.scienceandmediamuseum.org.uk/objects-and-stories/very-short-history-of-cinema#:~:text=No%20one%20person%20invented%20cinema.%20However%2C%20in%201891,success%2C%20with%20public%20parlours%20established%20around%20the%20world.

Cinematography is the illusion of movement by the recording and subsequent rapid projection of many still photographic pictures on a screen. Originally a product of 19th-century scientific endeavour, cinema has become a medium of mass entertainment and communication, and today it is a multi-billion-pound industry.


No one person invented cinema. However, in 1891 the Edison Company successfully demonstrated a prototype of the Kinetoscope, which enabled one person at a time to view moving pictures.

The first public Kinetoscope demonstration took place in 1893. By 1894 the Kinetoscope was a commercial success, with public parlours established around the world.

The first to present projected moving pictures to a paying audience were the Lumière brothers in December 1895 in Paris, France. They used a device of their own making, the Cinématographe, which was a camera, a projector and a film printer all in one.


By 1914, several national film industries were established. At this time, Europe, Russia and Scandinavia were the dominant industries; America was much less important. Films became longer and storytelling, or narrative, became the dominant form.

The First World War greatly affected the film industry in Europe, and the American industry grew in relative importance.




reply

Whites pioneered it like they have for everything if merit for the past 300 years.

reply

NO WHITES did NOT PIONEER STORYTELLING.

Because MANY METHODS of STORYTELLING have been around for THOUSANDS of years.

That's the POINT.

That the WHITE RACE isn't doing anything NEW or INNOVATIVE that hasn't been done before by the ASIANS who used a different form of technology to create the SAME KIND of ILLUSION (the CREATION of MOVEMENT that wasn't actually taking place) as a way to tell THEIR STORIES.

So LET THAT FACT SINK IN before you try to ELEVATE the STATUS of the WHITE RACE -- which is also NEW to the use of STORY TELLING that uses MOVING IMAGES.

Because the CHINESE were also doing the same kind of thing for THOUSANDS of YEARS prior to the time that MODERN CINEMA began telling stories with the use of FILM.

reply

She has the freedom to be a racist like the poster right above, but instead of expecting other people to also become racist, she should go make her own movies with only non-white people involved.🤷‍♀️

reply

She has the freedom to be a racist like the poster right above


Are you talking about me???

(said in the same tone as the character in TAXI DRIVER)


Since my PALE WHITE SKIN of SCOTTISH ORIGIN is probably even more WHITE than your skin, calling one a RACIST is pretty SILLY.

How can one be RACIST against their OWN RACE?

Is that even POSSIBLE???

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

reply

"Is that even POSSIBLE???"

Yes, ABSOLUTELY...

reply

How the hell can someone be PREJUDICED against their OWN RACE???

reply

You tell me.

reply

This one is not worth your time sweetie, it's entire game is to muddy the waters with rambling posts that are unreadable nonsense

Just ignore it

reply

Yeah, I read his other posts. Rambling and unreadable nonsense is the right description.

reply

Just say, “Alexa, stop!”

reply

This particular Alexa seems cursed, it simply will not stop!😫

reply

*mutters under his breath* sounds like the Alexa in my house 😠

reply

FOUND THIS article down below, but it mostly talks about MICHAEL JACKSON and TIGER WOODS, and doesn't seem to mention how a member of the already DOMINANT RACE itself can hate their own race:

https://www.ibtimes.com/internalized-racism-can-you-be-racist-against-your-own-race-2587426

Internalized Racism: Can You Be Racist Against Your Own Race?

“Internalized racism is the personal conscious or subconscious acceptance of the dominant society’s racist views, stereotypes and biases of one ’s ethnic group. It gives rise to patterns of thinking, feeling and behaving that result in discriminating, minimizing, criticizing, finding fault, invalidating, and hating oneself while simultaneously valuing the dominant culture,” Taking Action Against Racism In The Media reported.

In a nutshell, after living for a prolonged period of time in a society where mild to severe racism exists, it becomes hard for people belonging to racial minorities to not accept the attitudes of the dominant culture as the norm.

Eventually it extends to a point where people of color start adopting a white supremacist mindset, and begin displaying hatred toward their own ethnicity and community.


reply

I guarantee you that anyone who attempts to read these posts of yours falls asleep halfway through them

Keep it to one or two well written paragraphs...damn!

reply

Alexa, off!

reply

The Black Pride Movement in the 60s was addressing racial self hatred. Natural hairstyles like the Afro, the daishiki, Kwanza, black history courses, acceptance of African features, and the new term black instead of Colored were a part of the shift to a more positive self image.

You see other marginalized groups deal with self-hatred when they decide to finally learn their language and culture after years of attempted cultural genocide against them.

Everyone is exposed to white supremacy 24/7 so it's impossible not to be affected by it. It takes a conscious effort not to be negatively influenced.

reply

I remember the AFRO hairstyle. Now what we see is that wrestler being FORCED to have his LOCKS CUT OFF, or seeing others FORCED to change their hair in some way in order to keep their jobs.

What's also amazing is how the WHITE RACE is the MINORITY RACE GLOBALLY, and is also rapidly becoming the MINORITY RACE LOCALLY as well, yet still tries to MAINTAIN POWER and CONTROL over other NON WHITE RACES.

And the kind of desperation that we see (to try and perpetuate the "SUPREMACY MYTH" that they're SUPERIOR or better in some way than other RACES are) is also pretty frightening.

And unfortunately, that's also the same kind of a PREMISE that's been put forth here in the OP which has the following topic heading:

Can we say that cinema is a product of "white culture"?

A HEADING that's Presenting us with A SUPERIOR ATTITUDE -- Which also pretty much amounts to having an image of an ALPHA APE BEATING upon it's CHEST -- as if to insist that he thinks he's the "KING of the WORLD."

And, imo, that's also an EXTREMELY DISTASTEFUL ATTITUDE that's also full of way too much ARROGANCE.

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

reply

Imagine if white women had to have tightly coiled hair at work because straight hair was considered "unprofessional". There are new laws against discrimination of black hair, but unspoken bias and expectations remain.

White supremacy and racism were created to justify the Atlantic Slave Trade. Historically, people were divided over ethnicity, nationality and religion.

Definitions of white and black can be very arbitrary. Irish, Polish, Italians and European Jews weren't originally considered white. White Hispanics still aren't. Meanwhile Arabs, East Indians and North Africans are labeled white even when they're not and they object to the label. Then, there's the hierarchy when, for example, a WASP is considered more white than a Greek. Bush 1 referred to Dukakis as "swarthy" during the presidential campaign.

The OP repeatedly makes white supremacist posts in order to get other racists to agree. It's common group bonding behavior for racists. At the same time, they'll criticize whites who don't join them. The OP hates women, also.

They're insecure and likely struggling financially which would explain their desperate reliance for white supremacists rhetoric in order to feel better about themselves.

The film industry is much more than who invented an object. It's an art form which includes acting, directing, camera technique, writing, music, etc. Women were early pioneers in the film industry as directors, writers, producers, etc. before they were pushed out. The OP doesn't understand that ignorance of history doesn't equate with not having a history.

reply

You seem very insecure.

reply

YES it's perfectly CLEAR that the MAIN reason why the OP is claiming "CINEMA was is a PRODUCT of WHITE CULTURE" is because they think BEATING upon their CHEST (as if they're an ALPHA APE) is going to convince others that their STATUS is GREATER and BETTER than that of others who are NON WHITE.

But of course it also only makes them LOOK VERY SILLY to do so, because it's also VERY EASY to see right through them and what they're trying to do (a process which you've also described quite eloquently).


Imagine if white women had to have tightly coiled hair at work because straight hair was considered "unprofessional". There are new laws against discrimination of black hair, but unspoken bias and expectations remain


As for the other remark that you've made about the HAIR ISSUE, what if the woman HAS NO HAIR at all because she's going through CHEMO treatments or she has some other condition that's caused it to fall out and has left her without any hair???

People need to LEAVE other people the HELL ALONE and STOP sticking their NOSES into MATTERS that don't concern them. The way someone else looks shouldn't be the BUSINESS of anyone else unless the person is doing something ILLEGAL and COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE (like showing up to work not wearing ANY CLOTHING at all).

But this other OBESSION with HAIR STYLES or the way in which someone wears their HAIR should be OFF LIMITS.

At least that's the way I see it.



reply

I made the hair comment as an example of how far white supremacism can go by denying black people's natural features.

My example and yours have to do with conformity. A woman is supposed to look "pretty" which means hair preferably long and flowing. Black people are supposed to conform by staying submissive to white people. When they don't, there's push back.

reply

Today on the news they also discussed wearing The SOUL CAP or a SWIM CAP that BLACK women chose to wear over their hair during the OLYMPIC GAMES which is also getting PUSH BACK now.

Any other time those SWIM/SOUL CAPS that they wear would also be required to be worn as a way to keep SWIMMING POOLS from getting CLOGGED up with HAIR. We were forced to wear them back when
I was a pre teen, for example, and then again more recently they also insisted on women wearing them again whenever they're using our pool here.

But as soon as Black Women chose to wear them it's NOT OK???

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄


https://www.msnbc.com/ayman-mohyeldin/watch/-it-s-much-bigger-than-soul-caps-black-swimming-association-co-founder-on-olympic-swim-cap-ban-116089925874

MSNBC’s Ayman Mohyeldin is joined by Danielle Obe, black swimming association co-founder and chair to discuss the Olympic’s ban of Soul Caps. A swim cap designed to protect natural black hair.


reply

The NFL is in trouble for race-norming. They discriminated on payouts for black players with cognitive-related issues due to football injuries based on stereotypes.

It's endless.

The swimming cap is for very long hair. It's fine for recreational swimming, but for competition, athletes keep their short. I wonder if they're using controversy to promote a product? I hope not.

reply

Yeah I heard about the other discrimination situation regarding the payout for injuries.

But remember the other Black wrestler who was FORCED to have his HAIR CUT OFF before they'd let him wrestle his opponent???

Referee who forced wrestler to cut dreadlocks banned for ...

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/sep/18/...

Sep 18, 2019 · A referee who told a New Jersey high school wrestler to cut his dreadlocks or forfeit a match last year was suspended by the state for two seasons …


And how it was later determined that the person who CUT OFF his LONG HAIR also had NO LEGAL RIGHT to do that???

If they have NO LEGAL RIGHT to INSIST upon the WRESTLER having SHORT HAIR in that SPORT, then why should they have the right to FORCE SWIMMERS to wear their hair SHORT???

Hopefully someone will do something about wearing the CAP for LONG HAIR the same way as someone did something to make sure that no other WRESTLERS would have to ENDURE having their HAIR CUT OFF (when it's been determined that the people who did that to the other guy also had NO RIGHT to do it).

And since a having few extra inches of a RUBBER PRODUCT on the SWIM CAP (to contain the longer HAIR style that's worn) also isn't going to harm anyone, all the FUSS that's being made about it seems pretty SILLY.

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

reply

I remember the wrestler. Interesting article. That referee has a history of being racist. I hope he's not allowed to return.

Swimmers can have long hair, but doesn't a bulky cap slow them down in a sport where speed matters?

I haven't watched swimming in a long time so I googled to see if there are any swimmers with long hair. I found Kathleen Baker who wears a swimming cap that bulges out in the back.

reply


Ok so if there's another swimmer who wears a cap that BULGES OUT at the back like the SOUL CAP does then what's all the complaining about???

https://i1.wp.com/www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/maya-dirado-2016-o-trials-1599.jpg?resize=700%2C500&ssl=1

Why is it OK for this KATHLEEN to wear one that has a BULGE but NOT OK for these other girls to use the same kind of a cap???

reply

Read Black Like Me by John Howard Griffin and you will see that it is possible.

reply

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Like_Me

In 1964, while stopped with a flat tire in Mississippi, Griffin was assaulted by a group of white men and beaten with chains, an assault attributed to the book. It took five months to recover from the injuries.[10]


Reading ABOUT IT one can definitely see the reason why he'd end up with a LOW OPINION of his own race.

reply

I've encountered that story before.

What I was referring to was an observation he made in the book, what he saw as a surprising amount of hatred within the black race,e.g, the mutual contempt between those who considered themselves 100% Negro and Creoles.

reply

Since MITOCHONDRIAL DNA proves that ALL of us EVOLVED from the same MATRILINEAL SOURCE, why the hell do we end up with CONTEMPT for each other for the colors of our skins, when the only reason certain groups of us have WHITE skin is due to the way that it gets BLEACHED OUT as we MIGRATED to the NORTHERN CLIMATE AREAS of the planet.

In other words, our HUMAN SKIN got WHITE the same way as the POLAR BEARS and rabbits got that way (from MIGRATION to an area that had LESS SUNLIGHT).

Thus making the entire thing about having an ongoing obsession with the COLORS of our SKIN so VERY SILLY.

https://www.livescience.com/7863-people-white.html

Humans come in a rainbow of hues, from dark chocolate browns to nearly translucent whites.

This full kaleidoscope of skin colors was a relatively recent evolutionary development, according to biologists, occuring alongside the migration of modern humans out of Africa between 100,000 and 50,000 years ago.

The consensus among scientists has always been that lower levels of vitamin D at higher latitudes — where the sun is less intense — caused the lightening effect when modern humans, who began darker-skinned, first migrated north.


🙄

reply

I watched this movie recently. https://moviechat.org/tt0073901/The-Wilby-Conspiracy It gave me the impression that apartheid was pretty brutal. African citizens were arrested on the spot, sometimes clubbed if they were on the streets without a pass.

reply

Thanks for the link. I've also been reading stories about what happened down in SOUTH AMERICAN back in 73:

https://booksvooks.com/fullbook/the-return-pdf-roberto-bolano.html?page=11

Sissy SPACEK also made a film called MISSING about what happened down there during that time.

https://moviechat.org/tt0084335/Missing

After the other insurrection that took place back in JAN, I honestly don't think I can handle watching any else that involves still more brutality right now.

Humanity's INHUMANITY to other humans is getting to be more than one can bear.

happiness vanished somewhere in the world, and all that’s left is dismay. Perpetual dismay, composed of corpses and ordinary people,

😧

reply

[deleted]

Yes Pepper, but is having a LOW OPINION of the RACE that one is born into the same thing as being RACIST???

That's the question.

Because that's also the ACCUSATION that's been put forth here.



reply

[deleted]

Ok.

Thanks for letting me know.

If you figure out an answer, then please also let me know what you come up with later on.

🙂

reply

[deleted]

Just noticed that you're fairly NEW here.

Welcome to the FORUM.

💐

reply

[deleted]

Yeah go make shit movies or tv shows for BET.

reply

[deleted]

one can only come to the conclusion it was a mistake to abolish slavery and empower women.
done by white males btw.

reply

Africans created slavery, white men ended slavery. Fact.

reply

YOU SKIPPED HUNDREDS OF YEARS IN THE MIDDLE...FACT.

reply

[deleted]

Black men still have slavery:

https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/findings/regional-analysis/africa/

reply

That's actually kind of mind boggling, at least for me.

reply

I think the whole idea of modern slavery is mind boggling.

reply

Coincidentally, I'm presently approaching the end of a documentary about this case. Granted, it's a different type of slavery.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/serial-killing-spree-is-put-to-an-end

reply

Oh god, I've always found those two so horrible.

reply

It was touted on YouTube as worse than The Zodiac Killer, which made me curious.

reply

At least the Zodiac didn't torture his victims.

reply

Or murder a baby, make sick, evil jokes about it and try to use it in his defense.

reply

I'm actually very much interested in reading about murder cases, but this one I always have trouble going back to. I remember seeing footage they shot of their victims and it really got to me.

reply

A key piece of evidence was a videotape of the baby's mother begging to have her baby back, which the prosecutors found heart-rending.

reply

Yeah, I remember that. So awful.😞

reply

[deleted]

"White men maintained slavery until a time so recent that when I was a kid there were still Americans who’d been born into it."

So?

reply

[deleted]

If white men maintained slavery until a time so recent that when you were a kid there were still Americans who’d been born into it, it doesn't induce within me a desire to dismiss the fact that white men ended slavery.

reply

[deleted]

Naturally, white men maintaining slavery until a time so recent that when you were a kid there were still Americans who’d been born into it, doesn't change the fact they ended it while black men still maintain it today.

reply

[deleted]

Whose motive for what???

reply

[deleted]

Lol, clearly you are dense if you think tint as a motive has any kind of relevance to this discussion. Bye, Felicia!👋

reply

over a million slaves in nigeria. who are these people?

reply

Apparently, "the most common forms of modern slavery in Nigeria are human trafficking and child labor".

reply

i have news channel from nigeria and i have never seem them mention it.

reply

They're probably not going to diss their own country. You're questioning my source?

reply

no. not at all.

reply

one can only come to the conclusion it was a mistake to abolish slavery and empower women.
done by white males btw.


Actually CIVILIZATION was ORIGINALLY MATRIARCHAL (not PATRIARCHAL).

And it's only when it became PATRIARCHAL that the problems began that still continue to this VERY DAY.


Uncovering the Truth Behind Matriarchal Societies in the ...

https://www.ancient-origins.net/.../ancient-cultures-matriarchal-society-0011588

>>Mar 08, 2019 · Some scholars believe that the foundation of this Golden Age in human prehistory was a matriarchal society. One in which women ruled ; a society underpinned by feminine values,

>>until its collapse into patriarchy …

😛😛😛😛😛



reply

there was no civilization when we were still apes. besides i dont think its true, because apes arent actually matriarchal- btw the earth is flat

reply

On PBS I've seen FILMS where people followed APES around and FILMED them revealing to us what their lives are like.

What happened is the ALPHA APE was a SELFISH BASTARD who HOGED most of the FOOD they found.

So the TRIBE got fed up with it, banded together, and refused to share the food they found with him.

Then he grabs a BREAST FEEDING INFANT APE away from the arms of it's mother (HIS OWN OFFSPRING), KILLS IT, and EATS IT.


In other words, the MYTH about how WOMEN and CHILDREN matter the MOST is a BIG FAT LIE.

When 2 armies were fighting each other in ANCIENT ROME they also SHOVED the WOMEN and CHILDREN OUT of the FORT into the MIDDLE of the 2 opposing armies (their OWN WIVES and CHILDREN), and then let them SLOWLY DIE of STARVATION right in front of them so they'd also have enough food to eat themselves.

If that's what you mean about NO CIVILIZATION, then in those cases you're right about how there was none.

And the LINK you were given also tells us that kind of a CONDITION also appears when PATRIARCHY begins among the HOMO SAPIENS:

It is with the subsequent transition to agriculture and pastoralism that humans see the emergence of gender inequality, and the domination of patriarchy that now characterizes our Western society.




reply

ATTENTION LADIES AND GENTLEMEN...


INTOTHENIGHT IS INCORRECTLY QUOTING TESSA THOMPSON AND ACTING LIKE A RACIST/SEXIST CLOWN AS USUAL...


“I don’t want to show up on set and just see a bunch of white people, no offence.”

She continued by adding, “And I don’t want to work in the company of a bunch of men. No offence.”

Thompson continued, “I want to see work that really looks like the world in which we live. There are lots of people of colour, look around. It’s also really exciting not just what we put on screen, but also to work on productions that are inclusive.”

“I want to show up on set and have it look like the world I walk around in every day, which is full of women, and people of colour, and folk with disabilities. I want to make content that feels like that both on camera and off it,” Thompson stated.

reply

Quiet Kowalski, don’t ruin his fun with unedited quotes and context.

That’s no way to get all the donkeys braying.

reply

🤐

reply

Replace the word white with any of the alternatives and she'd be cancelled by now.

People are sick of this bullshit and rightly so.

reply

This^ .It's intolerant racism disguised as moral indignation.If a white person made these same remarks they would be labeled a bigot and vilified by the media.It doesn't matter what color the faces of my co-workers are because i don't view them as colors i view them as people.

reply

IT'S RACISM UNDER THE GUISE OF "WHITE PRIDE".

reply

It's still a bunch of fashionable racist idiocy, of the kind that could only be espoused by someone who inhabits a minuscule cultural bubble and yet believes it to be the entire world.

First and foremost, "white" encompasses dozens if not hundreds of ethnically, culturally and historically different peoples, unless one is working under the impression there is no meaningful difference between, say, Lithuanians and the French.

Second, even if one is to take "the world" to mean "the USA" (as Ms. Thompson clearly does), that country is, by a vast majority, "white"; whether one thinks this good or bad, it's a simple demonstrable fact - and yes, the ethnic majority in any country will make up most of the cast appearing in films, as anyone even remotely familiar with films from African, Asian or Middle-Eastern countries could tell you. This is only a problem if people's skin color gets in the way of your considering them fellow human beings.

reply

a vast majority, "white"


Actually, More MINORITY BABIES have been being born than WHITE BABIES in the USA for quite some time now.

That's the reason why MINORITIES will be the MAJORITY in less that 20 YEARS from now (by 2040).

And That's also the reason why you hear so many of them BEATING their CHESTS and passing VOTER RESTRICTION LAWS in an effort to try to PROVE that their still the BEST RACE.


🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

reply

she is retarded, no offence.

reply

Since I graduated with HONORS when I got my DEGREES, no offense has been taken.

Because we also learned about the PROCESS of PROJECTION in PSYCH 101.

In case you're not familiar with it, that's when someone accuses someone else of being the way that they are THEMSELVES.

😛

reply