MovieChat Forums > Loki (2021) Discussion > Loki confirmed as gender fluid.

Loki confirmed as gender fluid.


Comic fans across the globe are rejoicing with the news. This is the kind of stuff real comic book fans care about. Love, love, LOVE the direction MCU is heading.

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Supposed to be in a youtube clip Sunday, but I don't see it. https://www.youtube.com/c/marvel/videos

Old News! https://nypost.com/2021/06/07/low-key-reveal-loki-declared-gender-fluid-in-new-teaser/

This isn’t the first time Loki’s gender fluidity has been hinted at. Many had speculated as much due to the androgynous Asgardian’s shapeshifting abilities, while their non-binary identity was confirmed in the 2014 comic book “Thor & Loki: The Tenth Realm” when their father Odin referred to Loki as both his “son” and “daughter.”

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This is the first time it'll be confirmed on screen.

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It has been confirmed on screen!

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Not until now.

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No it hasn't. YOU'RE WRONG haha

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Wonderful. This is exactly what fans have been aching for - more guy-on-guy action in superhero shows.

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The judge called him Sir at his trial

Reeeeeeeee

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He can choose his own prenouns, every day again and again.

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ARE YOU A SPOOKY GHOST?👻

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"HE" yes he can. He can change to male or female at will but Loki is a man. Even his last name Odinson says he's a son of Odin. Also in Norse he is the father of Hel and Fenrir so yeah he's a man

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LOKI IS A FROST GIANT.

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Ok let's go by his frost giant last name LaufeySON

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Yeah. That's all comic fans want really. Fuck the storyline, fuck a well developed character, just make them super gay and pander to the alphabet nutters who lap this shit up.

And they wonder why the comic industry is dying. Well, in the west at least.

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The irony is the vocal queers that rejoice in this shit aren't the core audience the super hero movies appeal to... This is a bit like Black Panther, it managed to get a big box office because it managed to convince people that they were racist if they didn't go see it... this one will have to convince people they are homophobes if they don't see it if it wants to get a big box office take... I don't think it can do it, then again I doubt the sequel to Black Panther can do as well either because the reality of that movie is that it was rather weak and when you ask people that saw it why they liked it a large number will just have a deer in headlight look because they realize they didn't actually like it... they just saw it because they were sheep.

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This isn't a movie it's a show on Disney+ 6 episodes long

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Good then it won't be in my house. Disney+ is shit.

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You mean your mom's house..

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You must be speaking for your own situation, my mom has been dead for a long time.

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Wow you are a special kind of dumb. How about it made money because it's a marvel movie? Marvel movies have been the big craze since The Avengers. Also way to project. Could it be possible that people disagree with you and actually like the film? Or are you the sole authority on what determines if a movie is good or not?

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LOL here comes BP's number 1 fan. Are you the sole authority on if a movie is good or not? You just like it cause you think Wakanda is real

Blade was a better movie than Black Panther

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BP doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Blade. It's like comparing diarrhea to pudding.

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I used it cause many of these Wakantards think BP was the first black superhero movie. Blade was far superior

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Blade was fun but far from perfect. Black Panther is a good movie with some flaws.

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Ha! Black Panther is a better film than Blade.

Black Panther scores better with critics and audiences and had much more of a cultural impact.

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And McDonalds sells more cheeseburgers than any other restaurant chain in the world, it still doesn't mean they make the best tasting burger. BP was a shitty movie that only managed to sell the tickets it sold because of idiots too stupid to think for themselves believing that it was next best thing since sliced bread. It was more like the broadway musical Cats or Hamilton, hyped up to the point that a massive number of people thought they had to see it or they would be left out and then once the hype dies down they wonder why the fuck the saw it in the first place because it was a stinking pile of shit.

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Which is why I referenced the reception from critics and the general public. Unlike Transformers which also makes loads of cash but gets bad reception from critics and general audience. Black Panther passed this test. So no you are wrong. According to the majority of people it is a good film. You are not the sole authority on what determines if a movie is good or bad.

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Spot on

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No response? Did not think so you lame bigot!

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Critics don't know their arsehole from their elbow. The majority of critic options are irrelevant.

What exactly was the cultural impact of Black Panther?

Audiences like Blade way more than BP.

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Critics don't know their arsehole from their elbow. The majority of critic options are irrelevant.


According to you. You saying you have more credibility than a film critic? I put more stock in a film critic than I do you. Do I always agree with them? No but as I said they have more credibility than a random user on a message board. People like yourself want to say a critic has no credibility simply because you disagree with them.

What exactly was the cultural impact of Black Panther?


Whether anybody likes it or not Black Panther impacted things in many ways. Wakanda people love and the costumes, music and characters are remembered.

Audiences love Blade way more than Black Panther? Sure about that? Okay lets see.

Imdb Blade 7.1 Black Panther 7.3 Winner Black Panther

Rottentomatoes Blade 78& audience score with a 3.9 out of 5. Black Panther 79% audience score with a 4.0/5. Winner Black Panther.

Metacritic Blade user score 8.7/10. Black Panther user score 6.3/10. Blade wins. This site is the only site where Blade won.

Blade 1997 had a budget of 45 million and made 131.2 million. Black Panther had a budget of 200 million and made 1.3 billion dollars. Yeah I think I proved my point here.

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Oh come on. Look at the piles of films that critics have either hated on because they're stuck up or have given stupidly high scores in some effort to virtue signal.

If you think the scores on RT are legit, you are mistaken. Look at all the bullshittery they have been involved in with running protection for certain films and erasing user scores. RT is compromised and is simply no longer a relevant and accurate reflection of film/TV.

Metacritic is much better reflective of reality.

Wakanda people? Are you calling black people Wakanda people? BP was just another by the numbers, bland Marvel film with shitty CGI. The only thing that made it stand out was a largely black cast. Hardly original. The music was remembered? Was it? I recall nothing of the music in BP. Are the talking the score or specific songs?

lol. Thinking the budget and profit difference of films made 20 years apart has any bearing on audience enjoyment.

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Which is why I included audience reception as well. Even if you want to dismiss rotten tomatoes IMDb showcases what users scored the film. It's the largest sample size of users. Guess what Black Panther still bested Blade. You want to dismiss something because you disagree with it. There is plenty I disagree with but I don't dismiss it.

In your opinion it's no longer relevant. I personally think it's fine. No algorithm is ever going to be perfect. There is unfair treatment of certain films by users as well. Bottom line it reflects what critics or audiences thought.

Okay and even so Black Panther scored way higher on metacritic than Blade did. Users scores favored blade on that site but IMDb has way more users on it. So IMDb is a more fair representation of what users thought of both films.

I meant people like Wakanda. It doesn't matter if that's all that made it stand out, the point is it has that as you admitted. It has a largely black cast. Joker is derivative of King of Comedy and Taxi Driver. Phoenix's performance is solid but other than that it is a Scorsese film in comic book clothes. People loved it still though. You don't have to be original or transcendent for the movie to have things that stick out and are impactful. Yes the music was remembered. You do not need to remember it in order for others to. It arguably has the best original score in the MCU.

Go ahead adjust for inflation. Black Panther was more loved among audiences than Blade. That's a fact. It's like this whether you like or dislike Titanic it was a cultural smash hit. So when you said audiences vastly preferred Blade you are by all objective measurements wrong. I say that and I love Blade.

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It would be interesting to do a "man on the street" type thing and stop and ask 1000 people that have seen both to state which they prefer. Get some unadulterated, raw data.

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Sure but as it stands Black Panther is a more liked film than Blade. Most people don't compare one movie to another when rating films. Worlds apart in the type of movie they are making. Fyi Blade had awful cgi as well. That was made after Terminator 2, Jurassic Park, and Forrest Gump which all had vastly superior cgi to that film. The only cgi parts that are ok is stuff at night like in the rave at the beginning. The blood god stuff at the end is very bad! Interestingly I feel Black Panther had a similar problem. Spotty cgi throughout but it's the end where it becomes truly bad.

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I recently rewatched JP and it has some ropey CGI too. I think everyone remembers the awesome animatronics and lumps CGI into the effects in general. It does help a lot was set at night which partially hid some of the failings of CGI.

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For sure there is some mopey cgi in Jurassic Park. However check Forrest Gump that's probably a prime example. It's so seamless most people can't tell the cgi in the film. Shooting something at night is a tactic many film makers use to mask cgi. I have no issue with doing that. With Blade it helped mask the bad cgi but the end my goodness awful cgi! I don't get why you let that slide but then malign Black Panther. Simply because cgi is bad doesn't make the film bad as a whole.

I love both Blade 1 and 2 but both have terrible cgi. Remember that fight in front of the light in Blade 2? Why that frustrates me so bad is there was no reason to cgi that. The choreography is actually really good in that scene but the cgi pulls you right out of it. In the final fight in Blade 1 also them clanking swords and simply looping and speeding up the footage was a cheap tactic also. Blade 2 came out same years litr the two towers...

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You know, I can't actually picture any CGI on Forrest Gump. It's been a long time since I've seen it.

I guess when I consider the budget for Blade (Apparently $45M) and the budget for Black Panther ($200M) and the massive improvements in tech made between the releases, such bad CGI in a block buster Marvel film is kind of inexcusable imo.

But yeah, Blade 2 is littered with shocking CGI. Those wibbly, wobbly, floppy bodies during the fights were bad and as you say, unnecessary. And the end of Blade, yeah, it's questionable too. I just find Blade a much more enjoyable film. It's a film I could easily rewatch. Blank Panther, not so much. One and done for me.

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There is cgi in it. For instance lieutenant Dan's legs and Forrest meeting deceased personages and shaking their hands. This film only had 10 million more dollars to it's budget than Blade. Babe is another one actually. Think about how awful talkiing animals look in movies usually. This film had a smaller budget than Blade.

If you adjust for inflation 45 million would be about 72 million in today's world. District 9 was made for 30 million in 2009 which is about 36 million in today's world. District 9 had great cgi for it's time and especially it's resources. The Matrix had great cgi for it's time as well although I don't cite that because it did have a bit higher of a budget. Anyway usually when a director is inexperienced working on big films that require cgi it typically shows. Spiderman in 2002 has a budget of 132 million. Some of the effects were way wobbly. Some were ok but overall lotr had better effects and not as big of a budget. Now the second one balanced effects way better as the cgi in the second was great due to time but also Raimi now had experienced working on a big budget film. Spiderman was his first big budget film. Same goes for Coogler on Black Panther. Not excusing it just offering insight.

I like both. I love Blade despite it's flaws. I like Black Panther as well. Now do I think it's a cutting edge masterpiece? No but to say it's just an average MCU film I disagree with. I think it's good. When I think of an average MCU flick I think of Thor the dark world. Forgettable villain lame humor etc. I feel Black Panther had a compelling villain and good soundtrack. Neither of which Thor the dark world had. Anyway opinion of course but you saying audiences vastly preferred Blade over Black Panther was false. Just because you prefer it doesn't mean the majority does.

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Critics don't know their arsehole from their elbow.


True, but in this particular case, I'd argue they knew exactly what they were doing: heaping absurd levels of praise on top of the latest by-the-numbers, mass-produced superhero flick off the Disney assembly line because you see, this one happens to be important to the ideology they all uniformly and unthinkingly subscribe to by dint of being "diverse" - meaning, of course, "nearly completely homogeneous, except with one of the right colors".

I mean, I would think if someone actually gave one whit about actual African cultures, they would watch films made by said cultures, such as Yeelen (1987), Hyènes (1992) or Crumbs (2015), as opposed to a fictional one made up by two Jewish men from New York in 1966, but I guess that just goes to show how unenlightened I am.

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Bingo. It seems that people would much rather be spoon fed generic, stereotypical African "culture" from the vision of white people...

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Oh for fuck's sake, "Black Panther" was a terrific movie and this white person loved it!

As for Loki, he changed gender in Norse myth to the point of actually giving birth to an eight legged horse, which is something I wish on any asshole who goes around insulting "Black Panther".

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It is frustrating that you can't just enjoy Black Panther without someone calling you a libtard sjw wimp.

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It's so very enjoyable, after all!

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Funny how Black Panther is what makes people lose it when you say you enjoy it. Not Thor 2, not Avengers age of ultron this one.

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No, it's not funny. It's very clear why, and the reasons are ugly.

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Yes actually it is unfortunate you are correct.

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People get annoyed by idiots babbling about BP because the idiots foolishing think that everyone should love it or else.... No one gives a shit if people liked Thor 2 or Ultron, neither of which were with a shit either. The reality is most superhero movies suck.

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I do not care if someone dislikes Black Panther. I have granted you that respect now are you going to grant others respect for liking it? I like the film a lot. Superhero movies like any genre have great and bad ones.

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You don't deserve respect and Black Panther sucks

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I don’t care if someone doesn’t like BP.

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You literally are a sjw simp though. If the shoe fits....

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He changed into a female horse as part of a job, not because he identified as a female or a horse. He's disguised himself as women too, emphasis on the word "disguise". The nords never intended on Loki being gender-fluid, omnisexual, or whatever other sex-based buzzwords Leftists like to use these days.

That said, I also liked Black Panther. It's over-rated, but it's a solid MCU movie.

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Actually, that makes him transexual in a way that humans can never be, because humans can't go from male to giving birth!

As for what Loki identifies as, he clearly identifies as a God.

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No, it just means he can use magic to disguise himself, nothing more.

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If he can actually conceive and give birth while appearing as a mare, as he did per the Norse myths, he's using the magic to do far more than disguise himself - he's actually re-arranging his internal organs for the occasion! Trans sex and trans species!

I really, REALLY, want them to refer to this on the show at some point.

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Nope, just magic, a wonderful tool that can make disguises very convincing.

To be trans-something, one has to actually identify as something. That doesn't apply to norse mythos Loki, he just turned into a horse for a job, a job that didn't quite go according to plan, but a job nonetheless.
The Disney cartoon "Hercules" parodied that story when Pain and Panic turned into a female horse to lure away Pegasus. Pain and Panic didn't identify as female or a horse, they did it to lure away Pegasus.

As for whether the MCU will incorporate Loki's horse child, if the rumors of female Loki appearing are true, then it's possible.

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Don't get me started on the illogic coming from the modern trans movement, especially their insistence that identifying as something makes you that thing. If I identify as rich, money doesn't appear in my bank account! But the older and still valid definition of transexual is to change sex as far as is possible for a human to do so, in a social, cosmetic, surgical, or hormonal sense, and Loki went rather further on that front than a human ever could.

Because unless there's something we don't know about Asgardian anatomy, conceiving and giving birth to a horse monster can't be accomplished with illusion magic alone, it requires shape-shifting magic that goes all the way down to the internal organs and cellular/hormonal level. You probably don't want to get me started on the anatomy and physiology involved, but even if the Loki of the comics or movies only has illusion magic, then that wasn't true of Loki the genuine Norse God.

And again, modern human concerns about identifying as things doesn't apply to Loki, who identifies as a God, and therefore being above petty human concerns like what nature intended one's body to be.

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You're clearly over-thinking the horse-Loki story, and you're not the only one.

He used magic to turn into a female horse for a job, nothing more.

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Well he stayed a horse long enough to give birth, which does apply a certain level of commitment.

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Again, you're reading too much into it.

Loki was strong-armed by the other gods into that job; giving them the child of a special horse could get them off his back, if only for a little while.

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I'm reading nothing into it except what the original myth says, nothing at all.

I haven't even mentioned that movie-Loki is as camp as a row of tents and has never expressed any interest in a female of any species, because that's not relevant to the current discussion. But yes, if Marvel wants to do the fashionable thing and claim they're representing the gender-fluid, they might as well do it with someone who can appear to be male or female, and whose origin myths includes some serious gender-bending. Would you rather they decided to present Bruce Banner or Steve Rogers as gender-fluid?

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I'm reading nothing into it except what the original myth says, nothing at all.


If that were true, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I'm the one who's been recounting the original myth as it was written throughout our discussion without over-thinking it, where as you've been looking for things that aren't there and inserting modern issues into a story that was written a long time ago.

Mythology can get pretty crazy with its imagination, but lets not pretend it's saying anything more than it actually is.

Would you rather they decided to present Bruce Banner or Steve Rogers as gender-fluid?


Why does anyone have to be gender fluid? Or gay or bi? What does any of that that have to do with being a superhero? Or supervillain?

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Well, there's no point in talking to people who won't see what's right in front of their eyes.

I bet you've seen the Marvel films many times over, without ever noticing that Steve Rogers is in love with a man!

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I bet you've seen the Marvel films many times over, without ever noticing that Steve Rogers is in love with a man!


🙄😒

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Oh yeah, it's right there! Steve spends 98% of his movie time showing absolutely no interest in women, being consistently polite and distant to any woman comes near, while he moves heaven and Earth and throws over his sacred duty to be with Bucky.

And the mainstream looks at what's right in front of their eyes, and think "Such good friends".

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Uh huh, sure.

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It's all there, right in front of your eyes.

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Mmm hmm

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"Oh yeah, it's right there!"

No it isn't. It's just your preferred interpretation. For all you know, Steve Rogers shows little interest in women because he thinks it would distract from his primary duty to protect America.

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Um, have you ever in your life met a straight man who thinks that showing interest in life would distract from his professional duties?

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Umm...do you know anyone in real life like Captain America? And there are actual people known as priests who, pedophiles aside, honor a vow of celibacy and do not marry in the service of a higher calling.

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You know there's a lot of gay priests, right?

As for knowing people like Captain America, I do know people in real life who devote their lives to helping or defending others. No matter how hard they work, no matter how long their hours, they do NOT rule out relationships or sex. In fact, they really like having relationships or being married, many of them wouldn't be able to do what they do without a lot of support at home.

I do not know a single human being who thinks their job means that they can't be with anyone or even have a little fling now and then, and Rogers doesn't even to seem to have any interest in flings. I admit I don't know any superheroes, and I also don't know any spies or secret agents or anyone who needs to live a life of secrecy, but I think they feel free to marry as well.

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"I do not know a single human being who thinks their job means that they can't be with anyone or even have a little fling now and then, and Rogers doesn't even to seem to have any interest in flings."

So what? That doesn't mean Steve Rogers is gay. Your logic is stupid. You do realize that there are unmarried priests who have taken a vow of celibacy who aren't gay, right?

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Look, if we see a man in real life who displays no interest in women, who politely puts off women who express an interest in him, but who gives up his job and career and his whole life to be with a handsome bad boy...

What do we think?

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Rogers doesn't even to seem to have any interest in flings.


Um…did anyone see the end of “Endgame”? 🤔 When he put the stones back he ended up spending a lifetime with a woman. They were dancing in the last scene. They looked pretty into each other. Apparently not quite everyone saw that movie.

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Of course I saw the end of "Endgame"!

It seemed out of character, giving up everything to go to a woman who he'd talked with a few times.

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One might almost say he lost a bet to Thor.

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And blacks were so stupid they thought Wakanda was a real place and tried to book vacations there.

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*shrugs* It's been like that in the comics for a while.

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"Comic fans across the globe are rejoicing with the news. This is the kind of stuff real comic book fans care about."

LOL, stop it you goof. It fits with both the comics and Norse mythology - so it's perfectly fine -but "comic book fans" were not sitting around clamoring for this. Only people who read gay fan fiction get excited about this; and everyone knows that's just porn.

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He might be sarcastic :D

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Loki takes the form of a woman in the comics, and its a great run. It's actually nothing to do with gender, just his corporal form. All of this stems from clickbait articles trying to conflate nothing into something, none of these reports come from Marvel.

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That was indeed a good run of Thor. J.M. Strakzinski I think. I am fine with them having Loki shapeshift. The red hot Trans topic will make hay off it but so what. If it is good storytelling then it is good storytelling. If it borrows anything from said comic run then it will be great. They could introduce Doom.

P.S. Why is it that no one can dislike Black Panther without being labeled racist or somesuch? Everyone is too willing to believe the worst about huge groups of people that they disagree with.

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I haven't read any BP comics, but i didn't care for the movie.

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The only BP comics I ever read were very old (and not very good). However, I always liked him whenever he showed up in the pages of Avengers. There was a more recent run of BP that I hear was written by Cristos Gage. Gage is an excellent writer so I may check that out (if I can for free, as I quit buying comics 6 years ago)

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