Did he kill his wife? - Once Upon a Time in... Hollywood (2019) Discussion

[–] Batty67 (358) 5 years ago

Well, it was clearly intended to be unclear whether he did or not. I tend to agree with you that it seems unlikely he did given his personality.

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[–] LordBAElish (2015) 5 years ago

Seemed to me like it was probably an accident.

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[–] Burk48917 (11040) 5 years ago

They went out of their way to make her someone he no doubt thought about killing at some point,lol.

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[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

True, but that speargun seemed to be just accidentally pointed at her when the scene cuts. The strong implication is that it could be either. QT Wasn't trying to point to what it was, he was trying to specifically make it Schrodinger's murder.

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[–] Burk48917 (11040) 5 years ago

I agree, just speculation for fun.

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[–] ecarle (14979) 5 years ago

...though there was also the "planted concept" that, if pushed or triggered, Cliff could be capable of sudden, brutal violence:

The Manson guy(about fixing the tire)
Provoked at the climax
(And maybe) Electing to push back on Bruce Lee so that a fight starts(who started it? Lee? Cliff?)

Cliff's capacity for violence manifests elsewhere in the movie, and with the additive of this "did he or didn't he?" flashback...we can wonder: did he?

But wondering is all we get to do.

On the other hand, it is clear that Kurt Russell's stuntwoman wife Zoe Bell(in their characters) DOES think Cliff killed his wife and DOES get him fired over it.

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[–] yatzo376 (7476) 5 years ago

I agree with yr assessment.
Cliff was shown to be very capable of brutal acts of violence

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[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

I was under the impression that his fight with Bruce and the subsequent firing was a daydream he was having while fixing the antenna. It fits his fantasy/expectations. He even gives a little "hmmh" when we return to him on the roof. It showed that he thinks Lee is overrated and knows that Russel's wife is out to get him (he was even told to "steer clear of her" so that conclusion to his little dream had a seed)

His violence over fixing his tire was very controlled and reflected a cowboy sense of justice. Tough-guy fairness. Not wanton violence from someone out of control.

In the climax, I wouldn't judge someone who was just threatened by gun and knife. They were openly intending to kill him. However, he did go a few steps beyond what I can blanket with that excuse. He was tripping pretty hard on what amounted to probably 10 to 15 tabs of acid (one being plenty to take you on a journey) so his lines were probably blurred. Most all of the time, he was a measured, careful guy. Exactly the kind of guy who could get away with murder but not the kind of guy who would be prone to acts of passion.

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[–] Filmtenk2 (3391) 5 years ago

Interesting take on the day dreaming angle. Next time I watch the film I'll have to think of it that way.

I thought he was reflecting on the incident and basically thought getting fired was fair but in this case it was worthwhile.

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[–] Burk48917 (11040) 5 years ago

Lee called him out and they did break in to try and kill him, so I think he's capable of violence in those instances,but not the aggressor. I somewhat agree he didn't need to beat the guy over the tire, but I can also see it that he was sending a message that he wasn't to be fucked with. If he had sat there and fixed the flat while the girls and guys continued to rile themselves up, it could easily turn into him fighting them all. I thought that as I watched it, that he was trying to put a good scare in them because he saw the potential of it getting worse. Remember, they were screaming at him and following him as he tried to leave,but a knife in the tire doesn't exactly scream "you're free to go".

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[–] snausages1 (1) 4 years ago

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[–] Moonglum9 (10737) 4 years ago

he was trying to specifically make it Schrodinger's murder.

Preposterous! There wasn't even a character named Schrodinger in this movie.

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[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 4 years ago

You didn't see the blonde kid playing the piano? That was him.

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[–] Moonglum9 (10737) 4 years ago

I missed him. My vision was probably blocked by the dirt clouds given off by that other kid.

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[–] Jennie_Portrait (804) 5 years ago

I think it was an accident. He had too much integrity to just murder someone without a reason. In the end it was justifiable self defense. We can see he didn't really care about his own lifestyle. If he was fed up with his wife, he would have just walked out and lived in a trailer-- which is what he did.

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[–] Tyalt (280) 5 years ago

Justifiable self defense? I don't recall seeing her attack him.

Also, he was a trained military man - I'm not sure I buy him pointing that harpoon at her accidentally. But we don't even know how she died so that could all have been shown just to throw us off.

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[–] Jennie_Portrait (804) 5 years ago

I wasn't clear about what I meant. When I said "in the end" I was referring to the three members of the Manson Family who invaded the home. That was justifiable self defense.

In the case of his wife, i think it was an accident. That's why he talked about manslaughter in such a knowing manner.

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[–] Redsfan001 (6022) 5 years ago

The question that needs to be asked is 'Why does he have a SPEAR GUN???'

It is somewhat bizarre item to have on a small boat. I guess he might fit the type of man to hunter-fish but there is no reference to it in
the film. Unless you are planning on a 'accidental murder'.... 'I tripped over it and it went off'.. I could hear Cliff testify.

I like to think that he DID murder his wife, it gives his character more depth. While he is no doubt the 'Champion' of this film (I love the shirt btw). It shows you how even a man who committed a horrific crime is capable of redemption of sorts.

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[–] JMWick (229) 5 years ago

Cliff was wearing wet suit and goggles implying he was getting ready to spear fish after that beer. Sound effect of heavy wave is inserted right as the scene ends implying a bump in the boat accidentally triggering speargun. Marvin had a similar death in Pulp Fiction. It's still left open though because we never saw so it will always be up for debate, Tarantino is awesome.

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[–] Redsfan001 (6022) 5 years ago

Thnks I missed the wetsuit.

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[–] yatzo376 (7476) 5 years ago

Knowing Tarantino, the 60s TV show Sea Hunt was the inspiration for that scene

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[–] Turb (96) 5 years ago

I think he did. Cliff wouldn't seem like a person to have an accident with a gun. Unless he was smoking a cig dipped in acid.

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[–] bohemianroxie (2471) 5 years ago

No, I don't think so.
I think he may have wanted to a few times but I think this is more a point where rumors get circulated and seem to be accepted as fact.

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[–] BeenSavage (561) 5 years ago

If you look again you'll notice the harpoon was never loaded.

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[–] bobbydallas (8110) 5 years ago

I definitely think he did not kill her.. maybe a freak accident?

I'll check out the harpoon thing next viewing ! It just seems like a piece of shit trait for his character who, despite all, is a cool dude..

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[–] BeenSavage (561) 5 years ago

I agree. I think Tarintino is the only person on this earth capable of driving me crazy with these open ended movie mysteries.

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[–] modica (4169) 5 years ago

Yes, like what was in the briefcase in Pulp Fiction?

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[–] BeenSavage (561) 5 years ago

EXACTLY!

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[–] Tyalt (280) 5 years ago

It was probably a ringer!

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[–] yatzo376 (7476) 5 years ago

He killed and she probably deserved it ! Lol

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[–] modica (4169) 5 years ago

Seems like it was probably accidental, but who knows?

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[–] Ripkens25 (1911) 5 years ago

I think it's kind of a cop-out to suggest she died by accident....especially after they make a point of showing a scene where she is ridiculing him on a boat. Every scene in this movie was intentional, and had a purpose. I think Cliff, as cool as he was, had a dark side. And, he did not tolerate being eff'd with.

I'm guessing he either fired that harpoon, or just flat out threw her overboard. Hey....nobody said Cliff needs to be perfect or even good/virtuous. He did some cool shit, but he may ALSO have thrown his wife to the sharks. He had a dark side. Look at how badly he eff'd up those intruders at the end of the movie. That was some dark shit.

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[–] Filmtenk2 (3391) 5 years ago

But why would he care to check up on an old man to see if the Manson folks were taking advantage of him if he was a total bad guy? I think the wife killing is ambiguous. We'll never know but I hope to see more evidence one way or the other with repeated viewings.

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[–] Ripkens25 (1911) 5 years ago

People can be good and nice....or do good and nice things, yet still have a dark side. Those 2 things are not mutually exclusive of each other. And, even a really good person can have skeletons in their closet. Plus, when did I ever say Cliff was "a total bad guy"?

Ultimately, I think the clues are there that he probably did off his wife. That scene with the 2 of them on the boat wasn't just shown randomly--it had a purpose. And that purpose was not to suggest her death may have been an accident. They showed her ridiculing him--and it looked like he had enough. Cliff was a war veteran...and may have had some PTSD. He's a guy who....if pushed too far, will go dark on someone. Really dark.

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