MovieChat Forums > Revenge (2017) Discussion > Why are we supposed to be rooting for he...

Why are we supposed to be rooting for her? *Spoilers*


[spoiler]She's a mistress to a married man. And she knew it. It's not like she was some morally upstanding character that was lied to by some dude cheating on his wife, she knew full well that he was married with kids. Why was I supposed to care about her death?

A better ending would have been for her to get her "revenge", and then out of nowhere comes the wife to get hers as well. THAT would have been a great ending.[/spoiler]

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so being a mistress to a married man is morally as wrong as rape and attempted murder? are you out of your mind?

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Uh...what?

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You are supposed to root for her to get revenge, not that she is morally superior person. Cheating isn't the same as killing or raping somebody. She was a scumbag bitch, but she was also raped and left for dead. Only complete sociopath wouldn't root for her to at least get the revenge.

And people cheat all the time, husbands cheat, wives cheat, it is almost acceptable nowadays and nobody goes around killing cheaters. They are just shamed, that's it. And mistress is not a problem here, but the guy (or a woman) who does the cheating. So your idea of a wife coming at her to get revenge is stupid. His wife should have killed (or whatever done) him, not her.

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But the premise they set up for her already makes her unlikable. Again, it would be different if she didn't know she was a third wheel, but she did. That makes a huge difference. You suggesting she's innocent because the husband chose to cheat on his wife is completely idiotic. Two people who know they're fucking over an innocent, still makes both of them shitty people. Even if one of them gets raped and killed.

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Found a psycho...

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That's all you can say? A week later and that's the best you can do?

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I only reached so far by now, but its really hard to disagree with maikowski

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No it isn't. Look at how easy I made it.

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so being a mistress to a married man is morally as wrong as rape and attempted murder?

That's not what he's saying, you're assigning words to other people. Kind of pandemic, lately.

Revenge-porn needs at least some decent main character to root for. Here? She's a bitch that meddles a married guy to enjoy the advantages of banging a millionaire. She doesn't reach the bare minimum that qualifies as a decent person. And the other ones being even worse is not a good reason to root for her.

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"She's a bitch that meddles a married guy"... is a fairly misogynistic statement. As though she's to blame for the affair but that he, a married man with children who chose to invite her to this isolated villa, had no part in their relationship.

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Actually, it's YOUR statement the misogynistic one. As you try to defend her behavior as a normal one, you're implying that every woman would do the same. And thus you end up implying that all women are bitches. So much for the white knighting, mate.

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Lol, no, I'm saying it takes two people to have sex. He's as much a part of the situation as she is. By saying he is an active participant in the decision making, I'm not implying anything at all about "all women". Your inference makes absolutely no sense at all.

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Of course he's part of the situation. He's an asshole. The thing is that both parts can be assholes at the same time. Indeed, it's even more likely: tell me about your friends and I'll tell you about yourself. I don't know what's with modern SJW generation that suddenly considers virtue a zero-sum game, where one part being a douchebag means the other part is a poor innocent victim. And no.

I'm not implying anything at all about "all women".

Yes, you are. Either she's a bitch or she's not. And if she's not, as you strongly defend, that means that her behavior is kind of normal, reasonable and ethical for any woman, because otherwise she would be a bitch. And I'm sorry, but no.

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"Of course he's part of the situation. He's an asshole. The thing is that both parts can be assholes at the same time." This was my point in my original message. Thank you for agreeing with me.

You: She's a bitch that meddles a married guy...
Me: As though she's to blame for the affair but that he, a married man with children who chose to invite her to this isolated villa, had no part in their relationship.
You: ...you end up implying that all women are bitches.
This leads me to believe you are either a child, a simpleton, or a troll and I refuse to debate any of those.

"And no." Lol! Lovely dialectics. Whatever you do, don't ever change. You're so precious!

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• This was my point in my original message. Thank you for agreeing with me.

Nope, IT WASN'T. That was the point from the original OP, stating that she being another asshole made difficult to root for her as the hero of a revenge story. You answered, literally: 'so being a mistress to a married man is morally as wrong as rape and attempted murder?', suggesting that saying that both were assholes was the same that saying that both were equally wrong (or equally assholes). Your words, not mine.

• (With regard to the picked sentences from the conversation)

That was manipulative cherrypicking. You quoted my answer, but quoted a sentence of yours that was not the one I answered, to make the conversation look like nonsense.

When I stated that YOUR statement implied all women are bitches, it was about you saying '"She's a bitch that meddles a married guy"... is a fairly misogynistic statement.'. Why? if pointing out it (as a wrong behavior) is misogynistic, that would mean that this pointed out behavior (meddling with a married guy with kids) is not wrong, which means that it would be an acceptable and appropriate behavior for any woman.

YOU are stating that meddling with a married guy with kids is appropriate for all women, so yes, YOU are implying that all women are bitches.

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You're still here! That is so cute! Although you might want to think about going outside and seeing people, maybe even meet a real life man or woman. Who knows?

As for my final words on this debate (for I do have an outside life and real people to interact with), you initially said the woman was a bitch for sleeping with the man. I said the man was equally responsible. You then said the man was equally responsible. So you agreed with me, and thank you again.

As for the second discussion... I said your statement was fairly misogynistic for blaming only the woman for the affair. I then continued to say the man was equally responsible. (Come on, work with me here! I wrote only two sentences; they can't be that hard for you to figure out.) Calling you out on the victim shaming and saying Richard was as responsible as Jen for the extramarital affair can in no conceivable way be construed to mean that 'all women' are bitches. #BeBetter

Finally, I can see you're the type of person who thinks that the person who has the last word is always right. As you are absolutely my favourite Incel (no, really! I don't care what all the other incels say) I'm going to move on to other, more interesting discussions and to my rich creative and social life, leaving you with the last word! You're welcome! Just know that you are not 'right' because I'm giving you the last word here because you were wrong even before I commented. You were wrong as soon as you said "She's a bitch".

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• 'You're still here! That is so cute! Although you might want to think about going outside and seeing people, maybe even meet a real life man or woman. Who knows?'

Firs step: insults. Good beginning, mate.

• 'you initially said.... [...] You then said....'

Then you keep telling me what I said. Again.

• 'As for the second discussion... I said your statement was fairly misogynistic for blaming only the woman for the affair.'

... except I didn't blame only the woman. Though I suppose that you're so focused in listening to yourself telling me what I said that you have no attention left to listen to what I actually said.

• 'Finally, I can see you're the type of person who thinks that the person who has the last word is always right.'

Indeed, no.

It's quite difficult to tell who is right, even more when you're part of the debate. However, a good clue is to look for the one that doesn't need to insult neither to put words in the mouth of the other part.

• 'I'm going to move on to other, more interesting discussions and to my rich creative and social life'

Well, actually I believe you here. You're obviously a very creative person: you have made up almost everything that you said I said. That's creativity!! ^^. And now I'm sure you'll move up to have more interesting discussion in your social life with your friends... that probably you made up too. But hey, that's creativity!!! XDDDD

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[deleted]

Why is it a misogynistic statement? Calling out the girl for messing with a married man isn't misogynistic nor does it excuse a man unless you see nothing wrong with adultery.

Watch some other horror or revenge flicks, for most of them, the protagonist is never morally ambiguous. The girl/guy is usually there nice/shy one of the group.

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Revenge movies often have protagonists who are morally questionable. In Kill Bill, the Bride is a former professional assassin who admitted to not being a very good person and was only angry at her former lover when he turned his violence against her. Since Bill and his gang are terrible people, you root for the Bride to kill them even though she was a killer herself. It's a product of the genre.

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Sleeping with a married man is not the most wholesome of life choices, I'll give you that. But the other people in the story are absolutely appalling human beings. They are the worst kinds of men. They are rapists and murderers. So whom do I root for in this particular battle? I root for her.
The events of the film will probably lead her to make better choices in life down the line. Had these 3 savages emerged victorious, they would continue to be the brutes that they are, only now even more inured to rape and murder and even more inclined to commit these again.

[none]

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I don't think anyone deserves what happened to her...but..
she's not particularly sympathetic not because the guy is married but because it's obvious she barely knows this guy and is going to this dangerous and remote location because she thinks her sex appeal gives her some kind of ultimate power to barter for his riches.
Sex appeal loses all of its power when you surround yourself with degenerates that don't really see you as anything but an object. Life lessons aren't empowering if you're dead.

The fighting skills she suddenly acquired in the 2nd half should've already been a tool in her toolbox if she was going to behave as if she were invincible in the first half.

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@Roxie. Stop blaming the victim.

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Why?

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I'm not blaming the victim..comprehension is not a bad thing. Please read the context.

Using ones brain in the company of obvious degenerates may save your life. I don't think there should be an implication that just because it's not right that doesn't mean it won't happen. Be prepared.
Did these guys thinking she's hot save her?

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Yes, you are. Roxie.
Your so-called comprehension is a textbook-like example of Victim Blaming. Please watch the movie again. There is clear detail suggests that she knew this guy well enough to trust him and it supposed to be a romantic holiday for two lovers (Those associates were not supposed to meet her). Her lover killed her because she was "damaged" in his view. Which is not rare in some societies. And the "slut shaming" and "use one's brain" kinda talks are also quite common in the rape culture. (See http://www.southernct.edu/sexual-misconduct/facts.html)

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Slut shaming.? You seriously don't know me..
If she'd known the guy well she wouldn't have gone off to a remote location and would've known what nasty business he was into..
If she followed most common instincts she wouldn't have left her guard down with those 2 degenerates clearly leering at her. Why entice guys that actually looked like rapist?

I'm not blaming her for what happened ...that's not what I'm saying. No one deserves what happened...but saying that a victim shouldn't use common sense that might save her and bear some responsibility for not making it worse is infantizing her.

You're making her out to be dumb as a box of rocks and that none of her decisions could possibly make a difference.
If she were that dumb then she shouldn't go anywhere by herself. She wouldn't be equipped to make any judgements of her own in this world.
...Judgements that might avoid a scenario that few would survive...and that she wouldn't have if this weren't a fantasy.

Sometimes what we do or don't do cannot change the outcome and we have no control..Men included..
But sometimes it can.
But I speak as one that allowed myself in many situations when I was very young and it's just blind luck that I survived. I'd prefer females to have more confidence in evaluating a bad situation and realize some things are within their power to control some of it. Life isn't fair but we don't always have to depend on blind luck ..

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Speaking of responsibility, I think the law would agree with me that, no matter what, the mistress is 0% responsible for her tragedy while the rapist and the murderers are 100% responsible for their crimes.
It is good to know that you survived the bad situations in youth, Roxie. And I hope you didn't blame yourself for what could happen. I am totally agree with you about girls, women and young boys should learn to protect themselves. Let's hope every decent person in the society also take responsibility to create a safe environment for them and support them to seek legal justice when bad thing happen, without further victimizing them with blaming.

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No one has argued that she was responsible. Just that there's no reason to be sympathetic toward her. Generally protagonists have redeeming qualities that invoke in us a reason for us to see them live. She had none. She was an airheaded bimbo that had no problems sleeping with a married man to get ahead in life. Poor excuse for a hero.

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Why am I not surprised that you don't care about her death? Here is a quote for your group:

He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

For me, I sympathize with her because she should be treated as a human being, don't deserve to be raped and killed like that. Yes, I believe she actually dead hanging on that tree. The whole revenge part seems so unrealistic to us because it is just an illusion in her mind before she die.

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What group are you talking about? I don't think this site has groups.

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It certainly has echo chamber for those who live in their bubble.

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What are you on about now? What's this group?

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"textbook-like example of Victim Blaming"

You mean the SJW definition of Victim Blaming. Normal people realize both parties can be at fault.

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Well she is hot and that BF is clearly evil so thats all I need. Any decent guy would have send her home as she requested.

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Any decent guy would beat the living shit out of a man that just raped some girl. His own girlfriend(side piece but still) under his own roof no less!

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Because she was raped and no one girl really deserves to be raped. They even tried to kill her. She got what she deserved.

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"She was raped" isnt a good enough reason. Sorry. We all know no one deserves to be raped. No ones debating that. But she was also a gold digging serial cheater. She's not the kind of person that makes a good hero that you care to root for.

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we dun know enough to judge her character , even she is that sort does that mean she deserved to get raped and killed?

Btw the movie doesnt portray her as a hero, its about someone getting her revenge on a few evil men.

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Well dont you think that's a problem with the film then? That they didnt spend enough time fleshing out her character and only represented as what we saw in the film? If this isnt enough to judge her character, then why wasnt the rest included? We can only judge what we can see. And I didnt see someone that I cared about.

And I literally in the previous post said that no ones debating whether or not she deserved to get raped. Did you miss that part? Can you read? Do 8 need to repeat myself for a third time?
Do I need to spell it out for you? I KNOW she didnt deserve to get raped. That's not the point.

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ok so I guess you are rooting for the bad guys to kill her?

As in the title its just a movie about revenge , so as in any other similar movie a normal person would support the good "guy" getting his/her revenge.

btw I m too lazy to read all the posts you made so sue me?

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You dont have to read all the posts I made. You literally just had to read the last one. I mean fuck, you clicked the fucking reply button to my post in which I specifically stated that we all know no one deserves to be raped.

And no. I wasnt rooting for the bad guys to kill her. But I honestly didnt give a fuck you won either way. That's the problem.

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Seems like you are the one still hung up about the rape , Ive already move on and made my point.

As in the title its just a movie about revenge , so as in any other similar movie a normal person would support the good "guy" getting his/her revenge.

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That lizard man deserved revenge for raping her.

That fat guy kinda deserved revenge for not helping her and looking for her to kill.

That bastard absolutely deserved revenge for everything.

Okay, I admit I didn't like before she was blonde and she was guilty for being with that cheater, but she showed us she became braver (even than lizard man) considering she's a girl and she got better on the end.

I wasn't rooting for anyone, but I just wanted that those guys to die and it was done, since I couldn't care if she dies or not (kinda glad she survived). Only good thing that those guys are dead now.

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I just remembered the scene where he offered her money as compensation, she didnt want it but pleaded to go home instead, a gold digger would have ask for more isnt it?

On the 'serial cheater' I have clue where you get the idea about her being a cheater.

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She sleeps with rich married men.

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Key sentence from the comments above:

"She doesn't reach the bare minimum that qualifies as a decent person."

I assume the poster is the current CEO of the United Nations World Comitee for Selection and Certification of Decent People.

Otherwise, just another case of a 21st-century boy incapable of understand that other people may not share his own personal beliefs and standards.

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By that logic, then she could be a serial child rapist because those are her own personal beliefs and standards, and by virtue of being raped, were all supposed to just forget about her child raping history and root for her because the mere fact she was raped, disqualifies all of her previous shortcomings right? Not The most convincing argument in her defense.

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Being a rapist or a murderer is not about being "decent". It´s about being a criminal, as defined in law.

If you think that´s ok if someone is raped or murdered - or, using your own words, "Why was I supposed to care about her death?", then you fail to understand some very basic things about how a society works.

Even thinking it´s obvious and cliché, I´ll say this: Can you visualize a situation where YOU are a victim of rape or murder, and someone who could help just looks at you and say "Why should I care? You are not a decent person." I have a strong feeling that your answer would be something along "But that person would be wrong, because I am a decent person according to my standards, witch are the right standards".

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Holy mother of God. How many times do I have to repeat myself in this fucking thread? I DON'T believe it's ok if someone is rapes or murdered. I NEVER said it was. I can't count how many times I've said this throughout this entire thread. I just didnt care to see her win. I've said this how many times now? She's not a character worth caring about.

Let me ask you this, say we have two women getting raped at the same time. One a serial cheater and gold digger responsible for tearing marriages apart without remorse, and the other a stand up mother of three who has never cheated on her husband once in her life. Has saved herself for marriage infact. Neither of them deserve the rape they are suffering through, but you have to save one of them. Which one do you choose?

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I think I sorta understand now your "It´s not OK but I really don´t care" position. Some people are "not worth caring about". Good for You.

Answering your question, I try not make judgements about other´s people "morality" or "decency". If I have a chance to save someone who´s been abused, I´ll do it. If I have a chance to save two people, I will not stop to judge them and decide if they are "worth caring about". But that´s me.

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Not good enough. You have to save one if them, or they both die. You want the blood of both of them on your hands? You know which one is which, now decide. Which one do you choose?

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I'll save the first one becasue , as a married man, I have more chances with her.

Simple.

Any other good questions like that?

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Nope, that about covers it. Thanks for playing.

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This thread is overloaded with stupidity.

Im out.

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