"Every one was against vietnam back in the day."
That's not true. The country was divided about the war. The anti-war movement started off small and grew with time. Many conservatives were for the war because there was a fear that there would be a domino effect if Vietnam became completely Communist allowing it to spread worldwide. Liberals were against the war. Flower power. Make love, not war. Peace symbol. Anti-war music.
"I don't see to much left leaning agendas."
It was very left leaning. Star Trek was one of the very few shows that had non-stereotyped black people. Not a big deal now, but major back then. Roddenberry had to fight to have a black person on the bridge.
Left leaning episode was "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" (half black/half white men at war) was so controversial, that Southern states wouldn't air it. Obviously, that episode was about racism. "Patterns of Force" was about Nazism.
Star Trek had the first romantic interracial kiss between a black and white person in America.
The Utopian objectives in Star Trek were very Left Wing. Remember, 1960s America was going through major social upheaval. Fighting racism, sexism, Cold War, war on poverty, Vietnam War, Roddenberry said in his utopian future, there was no war, no racism, no ideologues/Cold War (reason for Russian Chekov on bridge), no poverty because money doesn't exist, the egalitarian and multi-racial crew (unheard of in 1960s).
What's normal now, wasn't back then. Classic Star Trek was ground-breaking and very Left- wing.
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crc32 (2584)
7 years ago
The war was controversial because it was half assed. Instead of dominating the NVA the pentagon took a painful policy of only applying the amount of force the soviet backed NVA was capable of. It was a stalemate designed to contain communists while not pushing them out of the country which cost 60,000 american lives. Most of america correctly believed its not worth loosing american lives over a war that wasn't designed to have an exit solution. There fear was defeating the NVA head on would have escolated tensions with the soviets. Thats why every one was against the war including conservatives, The star trek episode "Private little war" does a good analogy of this.
Your mistaking social reform was a left leaning movement when pretty much most of america including the right were behind those efforts.
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Keelai (32698)
7 years ago
Conservatives were for the war because of their "Better dead than red mentality". Liberals were against the war because they didn't believe that America had any business being in Vietnam. No one heard of Vietnam before it started. Also, wasn't technically a "war", but a conflict.
The reasons why it became more unpopular over time:
The Vietnam War was on the 6 o'clock news every night. Americans were being shown graphic images of American soldiers with missing limbs and dying. There was a daily casualty count. I was semi-traumatized turning the TV dial trying to get to my cartoons. Notice how graphic imagery of American soldiers at war aren't shown on U.S. TV now.
There was a draft. My older brother was scared to death that he was going to be drafted. (He wasn't.) Americans were fleeing to Canada. It was also common knowledge that the poor and working class were fighting this war while the rich (like Trump) got deferments.
Mass demonstrations and marches against the war. There was also an anti-war culture movement in music, art, movies, etc. I literally doodled daisies (flower power) and peace symbols during class repeatedly and listened to anti-war rock music on the radio.
American soldiers committing atrocities against Vietnam citizens. Soldiers were the bad guys and were held in contempt. I remember them being called "baby killers"
and "rapists".
Eventually, the war lost American support. The end was announced. A final act was trying to fly out over 100 babies on a plane which crashed killing all or most. I had nightmares for weeks.
"Pretty Little War" doesn't mention the division that the Vietnam War caused in American society. But, it addresses the proxy war caused by the Cold War perfectly.
"right were behind those efforts."
The Right was complaining about busing and integrating schools. They wanted to keep the status quo.
"social reform"
Marches, riots, protests, upheaval, in your face confrontations. That's Social Revolution.
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crc32 (2584)
7 years ago
Conservatives were for the war because of their "Better dead than red mentality". Liberals were against the war because they didn't believe that America had any business being in Vietnam. No one heard of Vietnam before it started. Also, wasn't technically a "war", but a conflict.
Which is odd since democrats started vietnam while a republican ended the war.
black panther riots
There was a draft. My older brother was scared to death that he was going to be drafted. (He wasn't.) Americans were fleeing to Canada. It was also common knowledge that the poor and working class were fighting this war while the rich (like Trump) got deferments.
Yes people went to college to avoid the draft. And clinton went to oxford in england during the war.
"Marches, riots, protests, upheaval, in your face confrontations. That's Social Revolution."
I actually disagree with riots and upgeavel as social reform. Real social reform comes from either change in american culture or laws. Rioting only strengthens the oposition. Martin Luther king didn't riot he flat out boycotted the metro bus system. The bus company lost lots of money so they in turn lobbied to change the discrimination laws along with martin luther kings movement. And he is respected to this day for not rioting like the black panther group did.
"private litte war" has mcoy being the voice of reason mentioning that its madness just going for a balance of power. Wars are supposed to be faught to be won not cause a perpetual stalemate.
Conservatives were against the war but didn't like the hippie revolution as the hippies in the conservatists view were not just railling against vietname they were trampling on all of americas traditional culture, some of which did appear like communists in their eyes. Had the vietnam war been faught like a real war then believe me conservative hawks would be all in favor of it. Conservatives wanted to kick the NVAs ass via traditional means and rejected the idea that we sent poorly armed troops with little resources to get slaughtered.
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Keelai (32698)
7 years ago
It was the French wanting to hold on to a colony and deny Vietnam independence that started the war. Eisenhower sent money and military advisors to support them. Eisenhower also warned about "the Domino Effect" which became the rallying cry for proxy wars with the former Soviet Union.
Trump's deferment was a bone spur, too. He's been disrespectful to McCain's war service and Gold Star families. Clinton was a conscientious objector.
The growing anti-Vietnam War sentiment ended the war. Don't discount the power of the people.
I'm curious. What is your source for believing that Conservatives were against the war?
"Black panter riots"
No such thing. There was a Civil Rights Movement with different groups using different methods with different goals. There was Dr King, SNCC, Black Panthers and Black Muslims to name the major ones.
Dr. King was considered a threat and disliked by most whites when he was alive. There was an assassination attempt on his life. Hoover considered him a communist, spied on him and tried to convince him to commit suicide. Only after he died did public opinion change.
Black Muslims believed that blacks should create their own businesses instead of trying to give money to white store owners who discriminated.
The Black Panther Party had programs to feed children. They carried rifles which scared the bejesus out of whites and cops. You'd think the NRA would like them.
Change comes from intense struggle. Those in power don't want to share it.
"hippie revolution"
No such thing. There was an anti-Establishment Movement. Many young people and hippies believed that older people (over 30) only cared about money and material goods aka "traditional American values". They wanted to make the world a better place by fighting against poverty, materialism, racism, inequality, sexual hangups (beginning of the sexual revolution) and promoting love, volunteering and the environment. Similar to Roddenberry's vision for Star Trek - very Left-wing.
continued...
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Keelai (32698)
7 years ago
"conservatists view were not just railling against vietname they were trampling on all of americas traditional culture, some of which did appear like communists in their eyes."
I know. Conservatives have a very broad view of what a communist is like people fighting for equal rights and even countries like Norway and Sweden. Conservatives hated the longer hair that men wore (hair touching the back collar) but years later, conservatives would wear their hair that long too.
I notice that Conservatives will object at first, but then come around. for instance, rock music. Today country western sounds like rock. Bush II's Iraq War was supported, but now they know it was a mistake.
Re: "Private Little War" You're forgetting the Prime Directive. Winning a war was not Kirk's goal. The Klingons gave one side advanced weapons. Kirk didn't want the other side to be slaughtered because of Klingon interference.
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crc32 (2584)
7 years ago
"Re: "Private Little War" You're forgetting the Prime Directive. Winning a war was not Kirk's goal. The Klingons gave one side advanced weapons. Kirk didn't want the other side to be slaughtered because of Klingon interference."
Thats exactly what vietname was only our own troops were invovled in the conflict.
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Keelai (32698)
7 years ago
The American goal was to prevent the spread of communism and win the war. America doesn't follow the Prime Directive.
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crc32 (2584)
7 years ago
Forget it keelia I stoped reading the moment you suggested the black panther part wasn't agitating riots.
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Keelai (32698)
7 years ago
That's rather closed minded of you. You're making my point that conservatives were and are too rigid to hear different points of view, have tolerance and accept change and new ideas. You have the same exact attitude that blacks, women, gays, anti-war activists and young people/hippies were fighting against during the various movements (Civil Rights, Anti-war, Women Rights, etc.) in order to create social change.
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