Now that the fanboy dust has settled
It's pretty obvious Nicholson was the better Joker.
shareIt’s pretty obvious you’re a troll who doesn’t mean anything he says.
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MovieChat Forums > The Dark Knight (2008) Discussion > Now that the fanboy dust has settled
No.
Nicholson was a fun camp over-the-top villain, and Ledger was genuinely creepy. And only fun and camp in a few spots, not all the way through.
The Joker is SUPPOSED to be an over the top villain. Ledger's Joker was nothing like the character in the comics.
shareWas Nicholson's anything like the character in the comics?
Either way, it is my considered opinion that in all the factors that make a character work for the big screen, fidelity to the comic books is pretty far down the list.
Yes, Nicholson was like the character in the comics. Ledger's Joker was like a different character altogether, he didn't even have the bleached white skin. Overrated performance that got excessive praise because of his death.
sharePoint me to the comic made before that film that had Joker killing Bruce's parents. I will wait. I always have found this argument stupid. Burton is aloud to take liberation with a character and nothing is said. Nolan does it and you get the it's bad because it is different from the source material argument. You can't have it both ways. If we are holding it to the standard of being accurate to the source material Burton's films are not good either. It doesn't matter if it's accurate to source material what matters is if it's good or not. Period!
shareAnd what is your point?
shareI really gotta shake my head at the historical retcon calling Nicholson "camp".
At the time of the film's release up until people wanted to criticise Nicholson's performance to boost up Ledger's, '89 was considered a "darker" take on Batman, including Nicholson's wonderful performance.
For the record: I think Ledger did a better job on this particular character, but I don't think Nicholson as being "camp".
Well, I suspect I call a lot more things "camp" than the average DC Comics fan.
sharewhile this is clearing a troll thread
to show/illustrate the absurdity of it....
Can you honestly point to 1 thing, 1 fact that suggests the Majority actually now believes Nicholson was the better Joker. ?
can you find 1 shred of evidence that suggests Ledger Performance isnt still as Loved and as Praised as it was in 2008?
Because From what I've seen, In Damn near every single article or Poll done in The last 5 years.....
The Dark Knight is #1 or in the top 3 in almost every "Best Comic Book Movies" Lists or Polls
and Ledger's Joker is Still #1 in Damn Near every "Best CBM Villains" Articles and Polls....Hell He's either #1 or in the top 5 in Most "Greatest Movie Villains" Lists and Polls....
If you are not trolling....I'm honestly asking you to please give 1 piece of evidence that suggest either TDK or Ledgers Jokers isnt still as Praised as it was in 2008...
yes you are correct,m dudebros and the homogenized press still prop up these films into oblivion, but more and more I see people who dare to speak up.
shareI've been speaking up since 2008 when a certain group on the IMDB locked up the Dark Knight message boards with off topic chatter to keep anyone from uttering a word against their "enlightened and perfect movie". For me it was the first time I really saw the ugly side of fandom and the internet...too bad that's just gotten worse over the years.
I can't say I thought Burton's take was the best...I still feel that Mark Hamill's Joker was the best and that carried from the animated series to the video games as well.
But for me it wasn't just the Joker...it was EVERYTHING that Nolan did to the source material. Batman may be a normal, but meta-humans and super science are the foundation to almost every Batman villain in the rogue's gallery and when you remove that you've really removed 95%+ of the villains (not even counting all the "normal" villains Nolan just didn't like like The Penguin and the Riddler).
And its all just heartbreaking because Batman Begins is an amazing (almost perfect) origin story of not just Batman, but the Scarecrow as well. A kind of, "where the weirdness of Gotham starts." Without the "meta" they all just become "humans" and all I could think of while sitting in that theater back in 2008 was that Batman had become just a bad James Bond clone with even worse villains.
I don't really care about Ras-Al-Ghul stuffs in Batman Begins. The Dark Knight is better because it's more misterious about the Joker.
shareI feel that Nicholson was the better Joker for the Tim Burton Batman. The Dark Knight had a whole separate approach to the Batman mythos and, as such, needed a Joker more in tune with said mythos. Heath Ledger was the perfect choice.
shareI would agree except people don't see it that way, they see Nolan's batman as the 'correct' one, and use stupid arguments to support it like 'batman doesn't kill', while being completely oblivious to the fact that on his early issues he did kill.
shareCharacters change overtime. Batman stopped killing awhile ago in comics. Just because a character early on was portrayed that way doesn't mean it can not be reinterpreted overtime. The general consensus is that he now does not do that. Thing is when you look at BVS that movie is trash. Honestly even if you just took away him killing people in that movie it would still be bad. In the Tim Burton one he kills but even if you dislike that there is a decent film behind all that. After Burton left it was trash until Nolan took over.
shareIt wasn't trash until Nolan took over, Batman Forever and Batman & Robin are good films.
shareNot really. They attempted to make it a call back to the Adam West style. Therefore it felt like the Adam West show on a big budget but as cheese as the Adam West show was it was actually clever. So sorry but I disagree.
share^^^
Wow, and this comment is how I officially know you are full of shit.
My blood still boils when I think about Batman and Robin, and to a lesser extent, Batman Forever. Awful movies...especially Batman and Robin. One of the worst of all time bad!
The whole Batman doesn't kill thing was to cater to kids and manchildren so therefore its actually the Nolan fans watching the little kid version of Batman
shareThe fanboy dust may have settled, but have the nostalgia tinted glasses been taken off?
shareNo
shareI don't believe it has settled yet. I pointed out to a buddy of mine that while Ledger gave an amazing performance as a psychopathic villain, he doesn't actually play the Joker. It was not a well received opinion, and you've already gotten such responses and you will get more.
shareI've just gotta say I grew up watching Tim Burton's Batman but I also like the Dark Knight as well as Heath Ledger's Performance. I get sick though of all you fanboys dissing Tim Burton's Batman movie just because you think all superhero movies should be dark, gritty, and without humor.
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