In the Old Testament God was big on punishment and smiting. Think Sodom and Gomorrah, the Flood and the plagues sent down on Egypt. God was one vengeful deity in those days. Cross him at your peril.
But when his only beloved son was tortured and murdered by crucifixion what did God do ? Absolutely nothing. If that isn't the mother of all 180's I don't know what is. What would Anna Nomaly have to say about this ?
Jesus died for our sins. Now, our time on earth is nothing but a big test. We will be judged when we die....
shareThat doesn't answer the question does it.
You're right it doesn't. I don't know what Anna Nomaly would say....
shareBut that doesn't really make sense does it? What is my sin and why does someone else die for it? And if Jesus is god, why is it considered as a great sacrifice?
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Jesus died for all our sins
He rose again on the third day (hallelujah!)
That is a sacrifice. In the old days, we would call that a "Blockbuster Weekend" because it was the exact amount of time you could rent a Blockbuster video and return it without accruing late fees.
In Jesus's time, there were no Blockbuster video stores. So he would most certainly have accrued late fees.
That is the extent of the sacrifice. All praise to Jesus!
NOTE: I am forced to discount the pain of crucifixion since Jesus is an infinite being, to whom momentary pain is by definition meaningless. But I do NOT discount late fees.
Yikes.. You're right, late fees are torment.
shareI think all the wrath stuff happened before he sent Jesus to save us. There was a change of strategy after JC's time on Earth. Like andreaahr says we can do what we want without punishment now but we'll be judged at some point (not sure if it's on death or Judgment Day).
shareSo God was able to create the Universe with its mind boggling complexity but he's clueless when it comes to how best to deal with human psychology, even though he created that too.
God didn't make mindless drones, he made beings. He gave us free will. We screw it up. We also get every chance to correct the situation, and most people choose otherwise. Before Christ, humans were pretty much like they are today. He tried punishment and negative reinforcement it worked, but it needed something more. So, he gave us forgiveness. It works better, but we still act like ungrateful beings.
shareSo, he sends people to Hell for the terrible crime of not believing in him and ‘we’ are supposed to feel bad about being human?
shareWe send ourselves through our own behavior. I don't think you're going to like any answers you get from online forums. You choose your actions. You know the rules. Figure out what you're going to do.
shareSo your god won’t send me to hell for not believing in him?
shareNever said that. But don't worry, you're not here to learn about Christ. It's just an internet forum you're using to get into a debate. Have fun With that.
shareI wasn’t worried. Don’t you learn anything from debates? I was hoping to learn how you rationalize that kind of cruelty in you faith but you don’t seem interested so, hey, have a good night.
shareI thought God and Jesus were the same person? So confusing.
shareJesus on the cross - Oh me why have I forsaken me ?
Because God can make himself 100 people if he wants.
shareAnd that doesn't stop him and the 100 people to be god.
If you are in front of the mirror and slap your self you really ask the reflection why he did it?
He can make himself separate and joined at the same time. Jesus says he is in me and I am in him. He doesn´t say "he is me and I am him". If a conjoined twin said it to his other twin, you would have no problem accepting it.
shareBut his twin had forsaken him, and for some reason, Jesus is not happy about it.
share"he is in me and I am in him" wait, what would you say about your and your twin?
I was thinking that's more about cousins, not twins.
Pffft, humans.
I suppose you could look at it as humans being pretty primitive at this point. Most things were black and white, good and bad, right and wrong..That's what they understood..People were still unable to comprehend the grays and as people became a little more sophisticated so did the parables.
If there was another Bible today it would be short and to the point...I gave you everything you need..Go figure it out.
That interesting and mature premise would make an awesome bible!
Jesus would approve.
Jesus speaking in parables was deliberate.
"Why do You speak to them in parables?" (Matthew 13:10).
Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given . . . . And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: 'Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, and seeing you will see and not perceive, for the heart of this people has grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, lest they should understand with their heart and turn, so that I should heal them' (Matthew 13:11,14,15).
Here's the rational reason.
Judaism is a awful religion that is like a hate group. God kills enemy babies in Passover. Moses kills people. You have to have special haircuts to be unlike everyone else. You don't have to help outsiders. Everyone else is an infidel that rejected god before birth and that makes everyone a scumbag you can do anything too, etc.
They came up with this lie that a Messiah is coming to help them.
Probably Romans invented Jesus as a counter cult measure. They were in the mideast and they had a lot of trouble with jews. Romans were fairly "modern" in how they thought. Most leaders were probably atheists. So, they decided the best way to beat jews was to call them out on their myths. So, Jesus is the messiah and he already came. Jesus contradicts every jewish rule. So, if you believe in the messiah you must totally give up judaism and now all jews are directly breaking the laws of the messiah.
No more killing, you have to love outsiders, all sins are equal, Jesus says not to pray or go to a temple, he says not to give to charity to promote yourself, but do it in secret. He says to protect children and inmates, jews are allowed to kill their kid if disobedient, no more slaves, no more having sex with slaves, or any of it.
Jesus is supposed to be the evolution of judaism. But, he is probably an invention to defeat it.
Religion:
If you want to pretend all of this is true, then there is no real explanation.
However, I can think of one. Jews believe that all people before they are born meet an angel that presents them with the word of god. If they accept it, they are born a jew. If they don't they are born an infidel. That means they are born a pervert who remembers this in the back of their mind.
Muslims believe the same thing because it's the same religion.
In the NT Jesus says all of this over. Outsiders do good things and are okay people. That's the Good Samaritan story. Samaritans were infidels but Jesus tells a story of one who did a good deed. So, he says, how can they be bad and good at the same time? They can't.
So, Jesus is all about forgiveness and making friends with enemies to show them.
It all implies that god is now forgiving sins. He doesn't care if you believe in him or not, he is all about giving everyone many chances.
If you study all religions, you will find that there is some good philosophy, but none of the mythology makes any sense. The nice thing is, you can be a good person without the stories and costumes.
shareIt takes will and determination to be good when there is no reason.
Only very strong people can do that.
These stories are to scare sociopath types and immature people.
and to scare the less intelligent sheep of the world.
shareSure.
I deal with people all the time at work who just won't listen. I have even started using "god" as a way to communicate to these people.
People won't even take care of children that came out of their own vagina. So, you have to hit them with, will god created all of us and that kid has a purpose, etc.
You had better start taking care of yourself but you are a form of god's art work, and he will be annoyed if you destroy it, etc.
Many people don't do logical things unless there's some science fiction level reason for it all.
Cuz he's god he can do the fawk he likes
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