MovieChat Forums > General Discussion > The representation of men in modern film...

The representation of men in modern films and TV shows


I've been thinking about how men are portrayed in the media these days and thought I'd share my thoughts. Feel free to disagree, but please keep it civilised and constructive.

It seems to me that the way men are represented in Western media has changed over the past decade, and I feel the changes have been to the detriment of men and boys.

The representation of women has changed too, but in a way positive for women and girls. Hollywood in particular used to sometimes represent women in an exploitative, dismissive or sexualised way. However, this attitude was very rarely hateful or intentionally negative. Female characters were much more likely to be overlooked or trivialised than condemned.

With men, however, vilification is common in the media. What gets to me isn't that men are often villains, but that they're villains because they're men. This seems like an important change. Men are in some ways presented as innately and irredeemably flawed creatures, while women automatically have advantages, abilities and insight denied to men.

The loss of men from certain roles is also a recent trend. In remakes and reboots, characters are often swapped from male to female, or historical roles that were almost exclusively male have a disproportionately or unrealistically high number of female characters. Male characteristics, such as physical strength, assertiveness, stoicism, aggressiveness and competitiveness have become the attributes of leading female characters, and leading male characters are in decline. It's one thing to create good female roles, but another thing to take those roles from men. I can't exactly say that men and boys have been squeezed out, but this process only occurs in one direction and it's usually zero sum - women gain and men lose.

I grew up in the 80s and 90s, and it was a golden age for boys who loved cinema. On reflection, I probably took the male-centred narratives of the films I enjoyed for granted, and never thought about my role as a boy or a future man. And why would I? I was doing no harm and girls had their own entertainment, which didn't concern me. Nowadays, it seems almost impossible to sit through a film or a show without being asked or forced to question your identity in a partisan way, which is exhausting and unproductive. It's a shame that we - all of us, male and female - can't simply go through what should be one of the most enjoyable parts of the day without it becoming yet another front in the culture wars. Women can be women and men can be men, without tension or conflict about their roles. They don't have to exist in opposition or competition. Of course, it's perfectly valid for films and shows to be more analytical or provocative about gender and identity, but there's a place for that, and it isn't in most productions.

I don't want to go back to the past. In some ways, there's been progress in the representation of the sexes that I'm happy to see. However, misandry seems all too common in today's media, and engaging or positive male characters seem to have almost disappeared from our screens. A fuller and more tightly focused representation of women is all to the good, but it doesn't need to be accompanied by the abasement or erasure of men.

Given how I feel, I sometimes wonder what effect modern media have on boys. It must be harmful to be shown again and again that you belong to an intrinsically flawed and unpleasant group, with few good role models as counterpoints. I don't think it can lead to anything good.

What are your thoughts? Do I have a point or am I overthinking this?

Monday edit: Thank you to everyone who responded in good faith, whether you agreed or disagreed. I don't think my mind has been changed, but you've given me a lot to think about.

I did ask for a civilised and constructive discussion, but one notable troll steamed straight in with insults and derision. Someone else accused me of being a sock puppet for another poster. I'm not. I briefly had an account on here before, perhaps a year or 18 months ago. I deleted my account because of the trolling. I really have to question what the value is of keeping disruptive people like that around. Trust me, they put off a lot of potential users.

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😂

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The OP's username says it all. 😬​

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It's a portmanteau of Beefheart and Hornblower and reflects my taste in music and books. Grow up.

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CaptBeefBlower (23) 2 hours ago
It's a portmanteau of Beefheart and Hornblower and reflects my taste in music and books. Grow up.


🤣​...how sophisticated!
You forgot to explain the "Capt".

O Captain! My Captain!....the beef has blown every horn. 📯​🐄​

Thanks for the good laugh, little one! ☺

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Ignore the negative comments by some users here; you have written a coherent text that deserves a polite and to-the-point response.

I will begin with the foundational assumptions in my discussion of media representation.
As far as the discourse on representation is concerned, I don't favor extremism:

Not an obsessive discussion about representation as seen today.
Nor a complete disregard for the issue of representation.

What I've noticed is that the discourse on representation today often doesn't aim to portray "oppressed" characters positively in their own right, but rather compares them favorably to a negative or evil "other." This result in many male characters being depicted in a ridiculous, degrading, or even inhuman manner. The discourse on representation tends to view individuals not as human beings but as representatives of social categories, leading to a superficial portrayal of male characters in many cases.

One of the most noticeable things is the manner the American media portrays fathers, usually in a negative way, as stupid, childish and worst of all as dysfunctional fathers. Mainly true for television.

I agree that there is a problem when there aren't enough male role models for boys, similar to what has historically been the case for girls. Although it was expressed differently.

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You may expand your Ignore-list. 😈​
https://moviechat.org/general/General-Discussion/6601378847571c1b50856415/Update-my-Ignore-list

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Everyone who want me to added him or her to ignore list welcome to tell me in PM “ψ(`∇´)ψ

This CaptBeefBlower dude write a factual and valid argument whether we agree or not .He is new here, I don't want him to run away to evil movies boards like IMDB2.

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CaptBeefBlower isn't new here, it's just another sock. 🧦​

And I certainly won't send you a PM. ☻

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Sock?
Of who?

What am I missing?

Most of his posts seem to be related to movies and TV shows.

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"Most of his posts seem to be related to movies and TV shows."

Yah, therefore I said SOCK, not troll.

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🤔🤔

Interesting.

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Yah..."interesting"...isn't it? 😎​

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It's not remotely interesting weirdo.
Stop spewing nonsense.
Be coherent and say what you mean or shush.

Real people are talking over here.

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ShogunofYonkers (70496) 6 minutes ago
It's not remotely interesting weirdo.
Stop spewing nonsense.
Be coherent and say what you mean or shush.
Real people are talking over here.


You portrayed yourself as a feminist in THIS thread.
Ridiculous to anyone who knows you even a little bit.
Now you attack me again with "weirdo" insults.
I'm tired of your sneaky behavior.
I'll report any further insults. 🤘🏽​

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Report away dork!
You want to be all cryptic and self important?

Go piss in the wind crybaby:)

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ShogunofYonkers (70498) 2 minutes ago
Report away dork!
You want to be all cryptic and self important?
Go piss in the wind crybaby:)


Reported. 🤘🏽

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NO..HE DIDN'T...HE WHINED IN APPLICATION FORM....THIS REVERSE SEXISM BULLSHIT IS TIRING.

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Kowalski, saying that males are being discriminated against in one way or another does not make a person sexist. In any case, his arguments is detailed and factual enough to give a serious answer to his claims.

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RIGHT...HE IS BEING SEXIST AGAINST WOMEN IN THE GUISE OF DEFENDING MEN...HE IS AN IDIOT...ALSO...I KNOW WHERE YOU ARE FROM AND I REALIZE THE DYNAMIC IS DIFFERENT THERE...BUT MEN ARE FINE...WELL REPRESENTED AND UNDER NO ATTACK OF ANY KIND.

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You have hard time to conduct a polite discussion. You just attack him for no good reason.

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ATTACK?...BULLSHIT...NEVER HAPPENED...I LIKE YOU...BUT YOUR MAKING SHIT UP NOW.

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You said some vague thing about the place I from, that I don't understand or care, anyway I said you attack "him" CaptBeefBlower - not me. You called him "sexist" instead of just said what he wrong about.

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DUDE...I WAS NEVER TALKING ABOUT YOU...BUT WHILE WE ARE ON THE SUBJECT...IF YOU ARE FROM WHERE YOU ARE FROM...YOUR AND MY OPINIONS ON MEN AND WOMEN ARE DIFFERENT.

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Are you stupid or something?

I don't think you know anything about my country attitude towards women.

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WHATEVER YOU SAY.🙂

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You've always been a piece of shit

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YOU HAVE ALWAYS BEEN RUDE...I AM BEING NICE TO YOU...ESPECIALLY KNOWING ABOUT YOUR COUNTRY'S PROBLEMS WITH WOMEN...NO OFFENSE INTENDED...I JST DON'T NEED TO HEAR YOU BITCHING ABOUT MISREPRESENTED MEN....THAT IS A FUCKING JOKE....MOVE ON AND CALM DOWN.

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The treatment of women in my country is very good; like in every Western country, they have full rights and there is advanced legislation than many other countries. You might think we're riding camels. I really don't understand why you went in that direction.

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RIDING CAMELS?...LMAO...NOPE...I JUST KNOW THE FACTS...WHETHER YOU WANT TO ADMIT IT OR NOT.


LET'S DROP THE POOR POOR PITIFUL MALES CONVERSATION...IT'S WEAK AND CRINGE.

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You the only one who refers to this discussion that way, like it's black and white issue.

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IT IS...MEN ARE FINE...MEN NEED NO SAVING FROMK MISREPRESENTATION....BLACK AND FUCKING WHITE.

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Are you really sure where Boromir is from?

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NOPE...NOT AT ALL.

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Middle-earth, Gondor.

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Don't overdo it, dearest. ☻
You only have some kind of puppy protection because you supposedly fight for Israel.

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supposedly?

Okay I understand...

You are trying to take the discussion in a personal direction.

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Nope, I don't want anything "personal" from you.
I just expose you. 🙂​

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expose me? 😂 😂

God you are such an idiot.


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PERHAPS DROP ALL THE NAME CALLING...NO REASON OR EXCUSE FOR THAT.

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PLEASE...stay in your own sub-threads!

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YEAH...RIGHT.😂

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Ok, you can continue here.
Have fun, Bye.

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YOU ARE STRANGE...I DIG YOU THOUGH.

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I may be a stranger for you.
But you don't understand some things.
If you were a NAFO-fella, we would put you against the wall now, virtually. 🐺​

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I NEVER FULLY UNDERSTAND YOUR POSTS...BUT I AM UNDER THE IMPRESSION WE ARE PALS.

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You didn't understand my post, because you don't know what a "fella" is. 🐺

And yes, I like you. ♥
You're one of the few true male feminists (not these pretenders who only look for a better way to get in woman's panties...or feel like SJW).

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You called me an idiot in another comment in this thread, hypocrite.

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OH NO...NOT THE IDIOT WORD...THAT IS THE WORST ONE@@!


I APOLOGZE IF I DID...HONESTLY...THAT WAS A MISTAKE ON MY PART...AN THE ONLY NAME OR INSULT I HAVE THROWN.

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We're getting closer to your true personality. 😏​

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Who the hell is 'we?'

And to see deeply into another's personality you'd to have one too you weirdo.

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ShogunofYonkers (70496) 10 minutes ago
Who the hell is 'we?'
And to see deeply into another's personality you'd to have one too you weirdo.


Fixed. 🤘🏽​
Last warning above.

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Warn yourself to not be such an unlikable oddball.

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ShogunofYonkers (70497) 2 minutes ago
Warn yourself to not be such an unlikable oddball.


Reported. 🤘🏽

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OH NO!

I'll probably be deleted now because you are a weird kook!!!

LOL coconut head!

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ShogunofYonkers (70500) 3 minutes ago
OH NO!
I'll probably be deleted now because you are a weird kook!!!
LOL coconut head!


You need some holidays.
Reported. 🤘🏽

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Yes, MOD7 just pm'd me.
We both agree that you are a douche.

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ShogunofYonkers (70502) a minute ago
Yes, MOD7 just pm'd me.
We both agree that you are a douche.


Reported. 🤘🏽

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Reported for excessive reporting.

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BrandNewPoster (5424) a few seconds ago
Reported for excessive reporting.


Reported. 🤘🏽
(wrong accusement)

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Reported for incorrect use of brackets.

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BrandNewPoster (5426) a few seconds ago
Reported for incorrect use of brackets.


Reported. 🤘🏽
(wrong accusement)

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Reported for repeating your previous post unnecessarily.

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BrandNewPoster (5428) a minute ago
Reported for repeating your previous post unnecessarily.


Reported. 🤘🏽
(trolling)

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Reported for prejudice against trolls.

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BrandNewPoster (5429) a few seconds ago

Reported for prejudice against trolls.

Greetings to DeliciousFeet.
👋​

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All feet are delicious.

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😆


Signed, million man

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I ushered that twit out years ago.
You are next in line for a thrashing.

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Dream on! 🤘🏽

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What a goofball LOL!

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ShogunofYonkers (70503) a minute ago
What a goofball LOL!

Reported. 🤘🏽

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Be sure to include in your report to the MODs that you are a piece of trash from a sewer website loaded with turds that won't flush.

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ShogunofYonkers (70505) a minute ago
Be sure to include in your report to the MODs that you are a piece of trash from a sewer website loaded with turds that won't flush.

Reported. 🤘🏽

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Hey, whatever .
Report your skank mother for giving birth to you while you're at it.

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ShogunofYonkers (70507) a minute ago
Hey, whatever .
Report your skank mother for giving birth to you while you're at it.


Reported. 🤘🏽

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Knock it off, please.

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Ok, no problem.
Does that mean I can also insult as much as I want to?

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Mod7 is my favourite of all the mods. So sexy.

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BrandNewPoster (5425) a minute ago
Mod7 is my favourite of all the mods. So sexy.


There's no Mod7. 🥸​

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Mod7 is the secret hot young mod that only certain people know about. She's a cheerleader who does ballet and works part time as an assassin after school.

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BrandNewPoster (5427) a few seconds ago
Mod7 is the secret hot young mod that only certain people know about. She's a cheerleader who does ballet and works part time as an assassin after school.

You confuse that invented person with Filmboards' Mod. 😬​

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Poor response, sort of a suck up post for your scum friends at that other site.

You will not find a moment of peace and NO fun here now garbage face.

I'm coming after you trashbag, I'll never stop hitting you:)

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ShogunofYonkers (70508) a minute ago
Poor response, sort of a suck up post for your scum friends at that other site.
You will not find a moment of peace and NO fun here now garbage face.
I'm coming after you trashbag, I'll never stop hitting you:)


Reported. 🤘🏽

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It's telling that you know the Mods here, you are a castaway goon we don't need here. Go back to filmboards with the rest of the trash.

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ShogunofYonkers (70507) 7 minutes ago
It's telling that you know the Mods here, you are a castaway goon we don't need here. Go back to filmboards with the rest of the trash.

Reported. 🤘🏽

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You are becoming a bore.

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ShogunofYonkers (70509) 2 minutes ago
You are becoming a bore.

That's soooo sad. 🤘🏽

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Yes, you are sad and a bore.
Glad you came to terms with it.

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ShogunofYonkers (70511) 6 minutes ago
Yes, you are sad and a bore.
Glad you came to terms with it.


🥱​

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Report me jerk;)

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So the mask is off. I've seen other users complaining about you, but this is my first time seeing it myself. You really are an unpleasant, petty-minded internet troll. Get a job or a hobby.

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THIS IS FALSE....WE SEEM TO HAVE DIFFERENT THOUGHTS ON CERTAIN SUBJECTS...OTHER THAN THAT...YOU THROWING PUTDOWNS IS THE ONLY TROLL LIKE BEHAVIOR.

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You're so sensitive. Just admit you were dropped on the head as a child and never recovered.

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>One of the most noticeable things is the manner the American media portrays fathers, usually in a negative way, as stupid, childish and worst of all as dysfunctional fathers. Mainly true for television.

This is sort of always been true, but sitcoms are kinda dying now so it's less true just based on that.

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Sitcoms are dying?! 😥​

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I like that women have been cast in more lead hero roles of late, most women are obviously smart, tough and brave.
The 120 pound sexy babe beating up the Hells Angels whilst wearing stiletto heels is a bit of a stretch but then again plenty of action flicks feature an implausible scene wherein the male hero straight up destroys a dozen tough guys in a brawl.

Movies are just fantasy or 'imaginings' if you will. As long as the story is good I'm all for it.

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This is the part I am disagree with him. It's cool to seen tough and brave women, and irrational action scenes we also see in male action heroes.

But he have a point about the way men are represented and the lack of role models, not in one-off cases, but quite consistently in the last two decades.

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FALSE...THERE ARE BADASS DUDES EVERYWHERE...ROLE MODELS FOR BOYS IS NOT A PROBLEM...AT ALL...UNLESS YOU ARE ATTEMPTING TO REVERSE ENGINEER FEMALE PUTDOWNS.

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I think the issue of male representation is much more complex than the way you present it. Fathers for example are quite prominently portrayed as stupid and bad parents.

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I AM A FATHER...THAT DOES HAPPEN...HOWEVER...I HAVE NOTICED THE NNUMBER OF SOLID FATHER PORTRAYALS GOING UP IN RECENT YEARS...NOT DOWN...IF ANYTHING FATHERS ARE FINALLY GETTING THEIR DUE.

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If there is a change for the better it is a positive thing, I am not sure you right about that but at least you give a argument that can be debated.

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LMAO...LOTS OF SHITTY DADS...THEY DESERVE THAT REPRESENTATION...PLENTY OF SOLID DADS TOO AND THEY ARE ALSO REPRESENTED...IT ALL EVENS OUT IN THE END....BITCHING AND WHINING ABOUT THE POOR DOWNTRODDEN MALE IS FUCKING LAME AND FALSE FLAG WAVING.

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It's okay.

Good luck.

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I politely disagree Borimir. MOST action movies still have very prominent male heroes and male villains, I really don't see an issue with tough leading lady roles.

Hell, Sigourney Weaver did it BEST in 1979 as Ripley, the sole surviver (besides the cat) in Alien. The men in that film were all foolhardy and stupid, Ripley was a BOSS babe.

Men are well represented in recent movies imo.

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I am actually don't talk about males action hero, more about fathers and males in sitcom and drama.

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Well, you make a good point about network sitcoms, I gave up on them ages ago. DAD was always a fat stumbling buffoon married to a ridiculously pretty and clever woman. King Of Queens, Everybody Loves Raymond et al were total snoozefest trash.

I do feel that many great movies about men come out every year. Themes like horror or revenge or cowboy and war stuff and sci-fi couldn't exist without a strong male presence.

Maybe the Asians were right the whole time, the Yin and Yang thing, a Man and a Woman can make a story complete.

NO offense to the LGBTQ crowd LOL!
I don't mind a tough guy and a tough woman in the same story is all I'm saying. It's all just a fantasy anyway.

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That cat was a sh!thead in Aliens.
The cat let Ripley get dragged off on that doomed mission...

Ripley called it.

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As a woman I know exactly what you're saying.
And while, yeah, it's great to see more positive and multi faceted approaches to women and minority characters I don't particularly enjoy the trend of having to often make the men less then or evil villian. It's an extreme and clumsy approach that takes me out of the action and often fails to entertain.
And don't even get me started on the destruction of heroic male characters in franchises just for the excuse of a gender swap.

Is it possible to elevate one group without sacrificing another? I think so. I'm hoping that this is a passing trend and will result in more balance. I can't be the only female that enjoys men sometimes on top.

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YOU ALSO PROBABLY AREN'T FEMALE.

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Of course I am. 100%
Are you saying that females, blacks etc must only have one way of looking at the world.?
I try to be fair and impartial. I'm a person first.
I've never been a fan of extremes and the world is currently full of them.

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MOST OF THE "WOMEN" HERE POSTING THE WAY YOUR LAST POST READS...THEY HAVE BIG FURRY BALLS IN THEIR PANTS.

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My balls are figuritive by saying what I think when it seems so unpopular here.

Don't misunderstand me. I don't want to take away the strong women but I don't care to see that exclusively. I don't enjoy the trend of weak or evil males either.
Weak and evil men aren't very hot.
I like hot men (because I am a woman)

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FAIR ENOUGH...I DON'T SEE THIS OVERAGE OF WEAK AND AND EVIL DUDES...I SEE A SPECTRUM OF DUDES...LIKE THE REAL WORLD FEATURES.

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You're an idiot, Kowalskate.

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PROVE IT...I ALSO ENCOURAGE ANYONE ELSE TO PROVE IT...BUNCH OF HYPOTHETICAL PEOPLE.

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You just accused someone of being a dude and we wrong. I hope Ali is adopted so it's impossible for your low IQ to be transmitted to her.

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PROVE I WAS WRONG...IN FACT PROVE YOU AREN'T A WOMAN...HYPOTHETICAL PEOPLE.

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According to you, anyone can be a woman if they identify as one.

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THAT IS INCORRECT.

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You said it multiple times. I know you have the memory of a goldfish, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

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FALSE.

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So for Kowalski, if a female doesn't agree with him or behave the way he thinks all women should, she's probably not a woman. This chauvinistic behavior is evident in your treatment of AmeriGirl26, and even now you continue to bully her.

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THAT'S A DUDE.

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YOU ALSO PROBABLY AREN'T FEMALE.


Typical Kowalski: "if females didn't agree with my radical views about gender they probably not a real biological females"

And what the hell she said that you attack her like that? she even mentioned "it's great to see more positive and multi faceted approaches to women and minority characters ".

You don't even apologized.

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AGAIN...NOT AN ATTACK...IT ISN'T EVEN A DEFINITE STATEMENT.

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Thank you - not for agreeing, but for your measured and reasonable reply. It's good to hear a woman's perspective.

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Men have been portrayed as shmucks on sitcoms for decades. Even on The Cosby Show, where he is a doctor, he is clueless in his homelife and has to be rescued from himself by his lawyer wife.

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You got a point there!
Though I liked the Cosby Show...maybe that was the reason. 😳​

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SITCOMS WERE THE ONE PLACE WERE THERE WAS A NOTICABLE TREND OF SILLY CHARACTERS...LUCKILY THE SITCOM IS NOW DEAD.

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Maybe now you want to curse nyctc7 too for said this?

When will you learn to behave normally in discussions.

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HE WAS RIGHT...YOU ARE WRONG...AGAIN...NO OFFENSE INTENDED...WE ARE BUDDIES...BUT YOU ARE WRONG AND MEAN ON THIS THREAD....MAYBE SCROLL DOWN AND READ BLACKCHRISTMAS'S REPLY...HE PUT INTO WORDS THE EXACT REALITY OF THE SITUATION.

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You decided to attack me personally in a way that you thought that make me the most angry. You play dirty in this thread.

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NOPE...THAT IS SUPER FALSE...I NEVER ATTACKED YOU...NOR DO I HAVE A SHRED OF ANGER OR IRRITATION WITH YOU...LOOKING FORWARD TO WATCHING FLICKS WITH YOU SAME AS BEFORE...YOU GOT DEFENSIVE AND STARTED VISUALIZING FAUX ATTACKS BASED ON WHAT I IMAGINE TO BE YOUR DEEP SEATED KNOWLEDGE THAT YOUR OPINIONS ON MEN AND WOMEN ARE SKEWED.

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You are unable to conduct a thorough discussion without personal attacks and delegitimization.

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YOU HAVE BEEN NAME CALLING AND ATTACKING THIS WHOLE TIME...I HAVE BEEN FAIRLY FRIENDLY DESPITE YOUR BEHAVIOR...DON'T ATTEMPT TO LIE AND BLAME DROP.

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this is what I said to you:

"Kowalski, saying that males are being discriminated against in one way or another does not make a person sexist. In any case, his arguments is detailed and factual enough to give a serious answer to his claims."

and than you give this comment:

"I KNOW WHERE YOU ARE FROM AND I REALIZE THE DYNAMIC IS DIFFERENT THERE"

Obviously you decided to play dirty.
So don't play the innocent.

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THAT IS WHAT WAS SAID...WHERE ARE THE...personal attacks and delegitimization.????



THERE AREN'T ANY....PASTE EVERY COMMENT I MADE TO YOU...STILL NO...
personal attacks and delegitimization.




STOP MAKING SHIT UP.🙂...PLEASE.


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As always you play the victim.

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I AM NO VICTIM...NEITHER ARE YOU...WE CONVERSED AND NOW YOU ARE ATTEMPTING TO RECONTEXTUALIZE THE INTERACTION BASED ON COMPLETELY MADE UP HORSESHIT...I HAVE BEEN POLITE THE ENTIRE EXCHANGE...YOU HAVE NOT.

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How you polite if you said that thing? TWICE!!!

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SAID WHAT THING?....JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY I REREAD THIS THREAD...I HAVE BEEN MORE THAN POLITE...YOU ARE ACTING JERKY...PLEASE STOP...I LIKE YOU.

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You know what, let ask nyctc7, if what you said to me is okay in a cultural discussion and who start this dispute.

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YOU DO YOU...FOR THE RECORD...THERE IS NO DISPUTE...YOU ARE BEING RUDE AND I AM TALKING TO YOU...FIVE SECONDS FROM NOW I WILL HAPPILY DISCUSS SOMETHING MORE POSITIVE AND WILL NOT EVEN REMEMBER THIS CONFUSING DUST UP.

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I was rude after you attack me.

You really don't see the problem with what you said?

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THAT I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE BECAUSE YOU TOLD US AND I RECOGNIZE THAT THINGS ARE DIFFERENT THERE?


NO...I SEE NO PROBLEM BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ONE.

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Yes there is a problem, because you don't know nothing about that. Why did you even go that way?

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I AM BEING NICE...BUT I SEE NO REASON TO EXPLAIN WHY I POST WHAT I POST SO EXHAUSTIVELY....NOT ONE WORD I HAVE POSTED IS OUT OF LINE...YOU SEEM TO BE OUT OF LINE...ATTEMPTING TO STEER THIS CONVERSATION IN A DARK DIRECTION...I AM NOT GONNA PLAY FROGGIE AND HOP TO IT...I WON'T SAY NASTY THINGS BECAUSE I DON'T DO THAT.

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You said nasty things in the first post!!
At first it was against the off-topic, then you delegitimization my argument - by defaming the country where I live (in complete ignorance). Why weren't you able to answer him in a nice way without attacking the personality you attribute to his views? This is called ad hominem.

Your whole discussion from the beginning was personal. Their is users who agree with you and give nice answer to the off-topic without attack him personality. Why can't you do the same?

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THAT IS FALSE.

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All I said is true.

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EXCEPT...IT'S NOT...LET'S JUST BE FRIENDS.

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I think this might be a language barrier issue. Kowalski actually isn't attacking you there, but I can understand how if English is your second language, it would read that way.

Kowalski is just acknowledging the nuanced sociocultural differences of where we all live.

Now stop fighting and lets all be friends again 😁

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"Now stop fighting and lets all be friends again"

Period!
That's a good suggestion, Sophie-mousy. 🐭​

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HEY VINCE...I THINK BOROMIR HAD SOME EXTRA SUGAR THIS MORNING...I HOPE HE CALMS DOWN BFORE MOVIE CLUB.

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LOL. I'm on my second energy drink of the die. Sugar free though lol.

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ALI JUST CRACKED ONE...EXTREME!@@!@!@!@!

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No worries.
You'll all be "friends" in the Movie Club. 💖​

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AND YOU?....YOU SHOULD BE OUR FRIEND IN THEMOVIE CLUB.

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You don't have a clue with whom/what you're dealing here.

Some months ago I explained to you why I don't try MCMC again and won't repeat it. 👋​

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FAIR ENOUGH....I WILL CONTINUE TO ASK THOUGH...I CAN'T HELP IT.😘

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I just posted the following to Boromir: -

My understanding is the phrase that you took exception to is, “I KNOW WHERE YOU ARE FROM AND I REALIZE THE DYNAMIC IS DIFFERENT THERE.”

Having read the exchange several times I can see why you may be offended by this, with what it implies, however, I don’t think that Kowalski meant it that way.

Nevertheless, his wording was clumsy at best. To be fair, he has said numerous times that he meant no harm.

Put it down to a lack of communication.

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He attacking me.
And I am not his friend.

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My understanding is the phrase that you took exception to is, “I KNOW WHERE YOU ARE FROM AND I REALIZE THE DYNAMIC IS DIFFERENT THERE.”

Having read the exchange several times I can see why you may be offended by this, with what it implies, however, I don’t think that Kowalski meant it that way.

Nevertheless, his wording was clumsy at best. To be fair, he has said numerous times that he meant no harm.

Put it down to a lack of communication.

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I wrote to him that I did not understand this sentence or care, then in other post he made it clear exactly what he thought. He knew I was being attacked here by some bullies and that's why he mentioned my country in the discussion to make a provocation. And that's exactly what I argued, that he uses nicknames and plays dirty in discussions.

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Yeah! The way he suddenly started mentioning how women are supposedly treated in your country seemed to come completely out of left field to me.

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The direction the discussion went in was really unnecessary. You can agree or not agree, or agree or disagree with some aspects of his post but it's definitely a legitimate post.

CaptBeefBlower even tell us "feel free to disagree, but please keep it civilised and constructive". And most people really responded in a respectful way, whether they agreed with him or not.

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Yeah! I think his responses to both the OP and you were completely out of line to begin with.
And since when are women in your country treated badly?
If he's not making excuses for himself with his ADHD and whatever other mental afflictions he supposedly has, others here coddle and enable him. He's not the big, lovable lug some here try to make him appear to be. He knows what he's doing.

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YOU LIVE IN A DIFFERENT COUNTRY...YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT CULTURE...WE HAVE DIFFERENT WAYS OF THINKING.



WHAT THE FUCK IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?



PERHAPS YOU SHOULD STOP WHINING ABOUT THIS NON MISUNDERSTANDING AND MOVE ON.


I GENUINELY LIKE YOU AND PREFER WHEN YOU AREN;T LOOKING FOR REASONS TO BE UPSET.

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No worries, I was just making an impartial observation.

I hope you guys are able to resolve this amicably.

Love and peace ✌️

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It's okay Andy :)

Have A Nice Week.

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You too 👍

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I'M NOT ATTACKING YOU BECAUSE I AM YOUR FRIEND...CALM DOWN...THIS IS A MISUNDERSTANDING,BRO.

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[deleted]

Just stop, Kowalski. You pick up L's quite often, but this thread is filled with them from you.

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THAT IS FALSE.

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No, it's true. bohemianroxie just proved you wrong above, numbnuts.

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After Seinfeld NO sitcom was ever funny and rewatchable.
Well, maybe Curb Your Enthusiasm but still, I agree.

Sitcoms are DOA, we don't watch that shit here.

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Seinfeld had great writing. I just watched the "car lost in parking garage" for the 3rd or 4th time and laughed my head off. Classic show.

I'd name The Big Bang Theory as an exception.

I don't get the popularity of The Office and Modern Family. Not funny.

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I Love Seinfeld and thought The American version of The Office was really fun.
Modern Family and Big Bang were not at all funny to me.

Look at us having a polite exchange over here lol:)

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Being rewatchable sets the high bar. Writing was much better in the 1950-70s and I'm still watching many shows for the umpteenth time from that era. Seinfeld and Big Bang are the only new reruns I repeatedly watch.

:)

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I don't completely agree but it's nice that we sometimes speak the same language.
Peace dude or Lady.

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Peace.

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[deleted]

Men have been portrayed as shmucks on sitcoms for decades.


There's nothing funny about winners. So even in American sitcoms* when the people involved are usually successful -- Cosby Show is a good example, Curb Your Enthusiasm is another -- the characters have to be inept or foolish. Or there's no comedy value.

* - in British sitcoms the characters just tend to be flat-out losers.

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True. But I can't help to think that men much more often than woman are portrayed as the shmuck.

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I think you're probably right about that-- and if I were a female comedy actor I'd be livid about it.

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Mostly men writers (over the years)...maybe they simply don't know how.

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Or they tried to please their women?

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Yeah. I think that's probably true too.

Some have managed it. I don't think the women in Friends are any less stupid than the men -- at least not as memory serves. And I think Elaine is equal to the men in Seinfeld in terms of being a horrible idiot of a human being.

It can be done.

But you're right: it's more often the men who are the schmucks and the women who are the long-suffering spouses or whatever.

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I think some of this humor originated from the notion that while men dominated the workplace and were competent in their careers—e.g., as doctors, lawyers, CEOs, even garbage men—they were complete incompetents at home, struggling with genuinely basic tasks and almost always requiring their wives to bail them out of situations. Since men occupied most of the 'powerful positions' for the majority of the 20th century, portraying them as the butt of the joke was seen as 'punching up,' and anything else would have been perceived as 'punching down,' which usually isn't as funny.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with all of that; it's an oversimplification of the world's complexity. However, by and large, I believe that's how the general public perceived things.

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You said that very nicely, Sophie-mousy. 🐭​

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BOOM...WELL SAID...AGREED.

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Yeah. That makes sense. And even now, no-one wants comedy where women are always the butt of the joke. Because that can still appear unsavoury.

But, happily, I think there's more space now for funny women being schmuck / loser / inept characters too... which is probably a signal of some progress being made in wider society.

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Interesting point. So it was about power, or perceived power. It was acceptable to bring men down in the domestic sphere because they dominated in the public sphere (work, media, politics, etc.).

By extension, now that there's more equality between the sexes (and female dominance in some areas - education, academia, parts of the media), is it not unfair to to continue to drag men purely because they're men?

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[deleted]

Men still make up plenty of heroes and protagonists. You still have your action man roles. Dwayne Johnson, Jason Statham, Keanu Reeves, Jason Momoa, Henry Cavill, Alan Ritchson and co have been portraying rootable bad asses. James Bond and Batman are still around.


Women and minorities managed to survive whilst their representation was absent, reduced or even derogatory so I'm more than sure the boys growing up today will be fine. If they grow up damaged because hollywood doesn't puff them up to be the noblest, most flawless beings then it says a lot about their fragility. Do you expect society to coddle boys? On one hand some people complain about unrealistic male body expectations then on another they claim to want a lot of protagonists to be He-Man-esque. I think a more diverse pool of actors and roles for men is ideal. There is more to being a man than having big muscles and being stoic.

As for villainry. Men have made up the villains for pretty much all of cinema history there is no new 'misandrist' motive.



Are there even many examples you can name that have gave rise to your post? A lot of the time people start getting angry at imaginary acts. For example any time a remake or reboot is announced people start blabbering on about how they bet the protagonists will be changed from a white man to a black transexual. It rarely ever happens. People get wound up at hypotheticals. It's actually quite embarassing.

The problem is a lot of white men seem to think the world should be catered to them. That a movie made with women as the leads is an affront against them and that having non-whites or non-heterosexuals amongst the cast is some sort of political move attempting to destroy the societal fabric of white America.

You have many on here who want actresses to take their tops off and nothing more. They then cry genocide when a movie like Barbie makes a tiny joke at the expense of men. They're extremely sensitive and the double standards they have are very extreme.

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THIS^....💯👍🏾

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Good post. I agree with my new BFF, BlackChristmas.

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You have articulated what I wanted to say in a such a way I don't really feel the need to repeat it. :)

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CAN I COPY AND PASTE THIS LATE ON?...IT IS PERFECTLY SAID AND WORTH REPEATING IN OTHER CONVERSATIONS.

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It's not perfectly said at all but knock yourself out.



I'm just more than fed up with all the 'woke' crying. It's so overplayed and the people doing it legitimately get annoyed at the most minor things. A lot of the time they start talking about how hollywood is doing this or that yet they can't even name any examples of it happening. They have a persecution complex and think some evil string pullers are trying to genocide white heterosexual men.

The gatekeeping of entertainment, including movies, by a small subset of conservative white men is pathetic. They go out of their way to find stuff to get angry at. For example middle aged conservative men getting annoyed that The Little Mermaid is now black. Why are self professed manly men ranting and raving about Disney princess movies? They're so self centered they seem to genuinely think all media should be made exclusively for white heterosexual men.

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100 PERCENT...YOU ROCK...I HOPE YOU HANG AROUND AND POST OFTEN.

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No worries even in this one.
This person will post more often than you expected it.
Perhaps the names may change. 😉​

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You don't need a permission.
These are text modules from articles and comments from other sites.
And maybe you've seen BlackChristmas' bump too:
https://moviechat.org/general/General-Discussion/66075f7c6d529f1ab8c36fc3/Best-movie-cat-fight?reply=66083f5a6d529f1ab8c37bf7 👋​

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You're creating a strawman. I never said that boys wouldn't survive or that they needed to be coddled. I simply said the current representation must be harmful.

"fragility"

This word seems to be a way of insulting and shutting down people who have a grievance. It's a spiteful, small-minded and anti-intellectual device, and is never used against minorities. First insult someone or make a negative generalisation about their group, then when they complain, call them fragile and insinuate that they're an inadequate human being for feeling insulted. You didn't do this, but came close by inventing a strawman about Hollywood "puffing them up to be the noblest, most flawless beings", when no one is asking for that.

"a lot of white men seem to think the world should be catered to them"

Perhaps some do, but I don't think that's a widespread problem. People simply don't want to reduced to a stereotype or insulted because of characteristics that they can't change. It's bad when it happens to black people and women, and it's equally bad when it happens to anyone else. Reverse racism and sexism is still racism and sexism.

Anyway, I never mentioned race - you brought it up.

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It seems to me that the way men are represented in Western media has changed over the past decade


Western media? I see this kind of thing online more and more; it's quite annoying.

If you mean American, say American. If you mean Anglophone countries, say Anglophone countries (but you probably don't. You probably still mean American). Don't attempt to broaden and legitimise your point by sounding like you're an authority on the entire film and TV output of the western world with this sweeping term 'western media'.

The western world is not America's homogenised hinterland. With one click of the fingers, you erase all cultural differences by saying 'western' when you only really mean America. It's better to talk about national media as separate entities with their own traditions and values.

Yours sincerely,

"The Western World".

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Not to nit pick, but those of us in "The Americas" who don't live in the US don't always want to be lumped in with the United States 😉

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No. That's fair. Nobody wants to be lumped in with someone else's culture.

But when I refer to 'Americans', I mean specifically and exclusively people from its United States. If I were lumping all the countries of North America in together, I'd say 'north Americans'. So, in the above post, Canadians are lumped in with the Anglophone countries -- which will please the Quebecois no end.

I know it's clumsy terminology, but we seem to be stuck with it.



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I'm Western but not American. I also see this in British, French and Australian media. I meant Western and I don't know why you're so offended.

Of course, all the idiotic culture wars started in the US, but have been swallowed and internalised wholesale by other Western cultures.

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I don't see any of the tropes you refer to in any of the TV shows I choose to watch.

Of course, like everyone, I do self-select to specific media content - but I have watched a lot now.

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I also see this in British, French and Australian media.


Even if you were thoroughly well-versed in all three of these national media, which I highly doubt (who is?) their combined outputs would not constitute the entirety of 'western media'. You overstretch your argument with broad generalisations.

In truth, you aren't right about a single national media for reasons well-covered by other posters -- especially BlackChristmas -- but to extend the argument in this manner is absurd.

You're right about 'idiotic culture wars' being a principally American thing that conservatives in other nations have attempted to import. But the extent to which they have been successful varies considerably precisely because of those cultural differences.

That kind of politics has largely been abandoned even in the UK -- outside of Daily Mail headlines and social media use -- because internal polling has proven it to be a turn-off even among voters inclined to vote for the Conservative Party at the next election. (If you can find such a creature in 2024).

The main takeaway message is that we are not all the same, and it's bemusing to hear 'western media' treated as a monolith when it plainly is no such thing. Write about what you know about.

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I expected this to be a troll post, but it was actually well written. There are still positive representations of men, but there have been less over the years.

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There's less 'positive' representations of characters in general due to gritty media becoming prominent in TV and film.

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Du hast hier noch gefehlt.

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LMAO...JUMP ON THE WOE IS ME TRAIN....CHOO CHOO...CRYING WHITE MEN NEXT STOP.

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The fact that you think only women or non-white people are victims of being either underrepresented or misrepresented is a strange take.

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THE FACT THAT YOU THINK STRAIGHT WHITE MEN ARE...victims of being either underrepresented or misrepresented is a REALLY STUPID TAKE.

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We are talking about a shift.

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NO WE AREN'T...YOU AND THE CLOSET CREW ARE...I AM CALLING BULLSHIT.

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You're calling bullshit because you have the intelligence of a sloth.

From the OP:

Exhibit A:

I've been thinking about how men are portrayed in the media these days

Exhibit B:
It seems to me that the way men are represented in Western media has changed over the past decade

Exhibit C:
The loss of men from certain roles is also a recent trend.

Exhibit D:
I don't want to go back to the past. In some ways, there's been progress in the representation of the sexes that I'm happy to see.

Exhibit E:
However, misandry seems all too common in today's media

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POOR WHITE GUYS....BOO HOO.

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At no point in this thread did anyone bring up race except you.

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ONLY WHITE GUYS ARE LAME ENOUGH TO WHINE ABOUT SILLY SHIT LIKE THIS.

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And yet you're the one whining about the OP.

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NO WHINING HERE...JUST STATEMENTS AND PARTYING...CURL UP IN THE FETAL POSITION AND CRY A LITTLE...LORD KNOWS THE SHAPE OF YOURSELF...YOU DESERVE A GOOD CRY.

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Yeah, because I looked at you.

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[deleted]

So let's summarize:

You are a chauvinist against men by silencing any position that references discrimination against them.

You are a chauvinist against women by challenging their identity the moment they disagree with you.

You are racist against whites by holding stereotypical views and harboring intense animosity toward them.


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NOPE...JUST A DUDE WHO IS SICK OF EVERYONE PLAYING VICTIM...INCLUDING UNVICTIMIZED WHITE MEN AND YOURSELF ON THIS THREAD.



TO BE CLEAR...I MEANT NO ATTACK...I GAVE NO ATTACK...YOU ARE A FRIEND......I APOLOGIZE FOPR AND MISINTERPRETATION OF WORDS OR COMMENTS.

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It's strange how you misrepresent my and other people's posts as hysterical and unreasonable, yet you have reacted in exactly that manner even to completely dispassionate statements. You seem easily threatened by others' opinions.

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hysterical and unreasonable


NOPE...I DO NOT THINK YOUR POST IS THAT...YOU MISREAD THE SITUATION I THINK.

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Yeah I’ve become so used to new members being trolls and time wasters I was surprised too.

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They even acknowledged positive advancements in women roles. Guaranteed if this poster had 1000+ posts, they would take this thread more seriously.

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NOPE.

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We've already established you were confused about this post.

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THIS IS A TROLL POST BY A KNOWN TROLL...ONE OF MANY FLOATING THROUGH HERE ON ONE OF THOSE RANDOM INVASIONS THAT OCCUR FROM TIME TO TIME...YOU LOOK LIKE A CLOWN JUMPING ON THIS BANDWAGON.

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Who is this known troll you speak of?

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No.
Because I know who that person is. 🐭​

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