The protagonist is a horrible person! He is terrible with his mother, with his daughter! Very selfish in all of his actions. It's impossible to relate with him
shareNot impossible. But I get your point.
I feel that most if not all of the players were supposed to be dregs of society and unlikable.
The protagonist has a character arc throughout the series. He becomes a very different person at the end than he was at the beginning. Everyone in the game has a “grey area” reason for being there in the first place.
Personally, I think the series did a great job of taking an unlikeable character, and redeeming him. I didn’t like him at first either, but his relationships in the game added insight and depth to his core values.
When he chose the old man to be his partner in Ep 6, I was sold. That’s the moment that I was absolutely sure that he wasn’t simply about the money, and would rather risk it with the old man than let him die alone. IMO, a selfless act that came with a high probability of death. Nobody else wanted to be partnered up with the old man, and his decision to partner up with him felt like food for the soul.
I agree completely.
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this. no one wants a goody two shoes as a protagonist
shareI actually think Gi Hun partnering up with the old man is a flaw in the writing. I understand that the intention was to show Gi Hun as so selfless that he will risk his life so the old man doesn't die alone, but instead it just came off as something that would never happen in real life, no matter how nice a person is. There are some very nice people out there in the world, but no one is so nice that they'll essentially sacrifice themselves just to avoid hurting the feelings of an old man. From the perspective of Gi Hun, picking the old man entailed a very high likelihood of death, as you said. The chances that the next game would be very physical or would require intense dexterity and manpower was high. In this case, Gi Hun had no chance of winning with the old man on his team. In a game where losing means getting killed, no one is going to make that choice, no matter how nice they are. I think
In real life, he would have gone with the math teacher. I know that ultimately, this was done in order to show Gi Hun's character development as a kind and selfless man. But there were other ways they could have gone about it without making it look completely unrealistic. I mean, think about it. How many people do you know that would give their life away to be nice to someone? I would guess none.
It was to save the old man's life - not be nice. He was already nice earlier during the Tug of War game when he allowed women and the old guy on the team.
The old guy looked so pathetic and it wasn't clear what the game was.
Hated him at first too, but he really does grow on you. Dude had a hell of a heroes journey.
shareI couldn't stand him either. Especially the end, he allowed the boy to stay i. The children's home for a year, didn't get the mother out of N Korea, didn't help his friend's mother who lost her home and stall, didn't see his daughter for a year, and was willing for the drunk to die instead of going down there himself. He's noir that compassionate as they're making him out to be. He stole his mother's meagre earnings to gamble and when he won didn't think to return what he took. He was told she hasn't been returning calls nor go e to her stall, the same woman he grew up under who worked despite her bad feet, yet didn't think to rush home and call the ambulance. Such passive selfish people really piss me off. The last episode brought down thia show by 2-3 points.
sharehis reaction was understandable. Using the money was like aknowledging the terrible choices he had to make. I am pretty sure none of them would have liked that dirty money had they known the truth. And how much shame he must have felt at the thought of using that money!? It was too traumatic an experience to even accept the reality of it. And that includes blacking out the money from memory. It took him time to process the trauma. I love that it was realistic, instead of the usual happy ending that never really happens in real life. Even when he went to see the boy, it was extremely hard for him. It is how it should be.
shareI don't find it realistic at all. And you said they all didn't want the money? Who?
shareIt's more an image on how the Americans think: I got the money, fuck it, i can spend it how i want, no remorse, no second thoughts.
I can see your point. And I guess that shows a cultural difference.
If his mother would know the provenience of the money she would never accept.
Ok, so with that logic you would also have to say that because Korean's created this fucked up game in the first place that it must be an image on how Korean's think and their culture as well.
Or, perhaps just maybe it is just a tv show based in Korea. It could have just as easily been a tv show based in Russia. I believe whole heartedly that some of the characters in this show would have had no problems spending that money if they had won.
Some. Of course.
But we are talking here about that particular character. And his position in the Korean culture. It's not the first Korean show in which people (some) would show remorse.
BTW, you do realize that most of the fucked up movies come from the Asia market, right?
Well, you implied that he was remorseful because he was Korean, and that feeling remorse was somehow part of his culture, which is absurd.
Remorseful characters in movies and shows aren't as rare as you seem to think. Even in cultures/countries other than Korea believe it or not. Remorse is an emotion that is felt on a personal human level, and is not a cultural trait. The fact that he was Korean had nothing to do with the remorse he felt.
Well, I beg to differ, OF COURSE the culture you grow up and live with will influence your way of thinking and even empathy and remorse. So no, it's not absurd as all. To argue that the culture an individual grows up with has no influence on his individual traits is absurd ..
Not all countries (cultures) have the same level of empathy ... remorse can be a byproduct of empathy.
https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2017/07/17/no-empathy-isnt-universal-value/ideas/nexus/
https://www.sciencealert.com/the-most-empathetic-countries-in-the-world-have-just-been-ranked
Empathy and remorse are not the same thing. Remorse is only felt after doing something bad that you regret or feel guilty about. People who are the most empathetic are also the people least likely to do something bad that would put them in a situation that would bring on feelings of remorse.
Highly empathetic people don't typically murder other people, so in my opinion, most of the characters in this show did not display much empathy at all. However, whether you have a low level of empathy or not, you can still feel remorse after doing something you regret. Through remorse I believe it is even possible to gain empathy.
As empathetic as Korea may be as a nation, most of the characters in this show are definitely not representative of that. Thank you for the articles. It was an interesting read.
"Empathy and remorse are not the same thing." I didn't say that.
In his case you can argue that remorse comes from his empathy. He did nothing bad but he felt remorse as a result of him winning because he perceives that is somehow his fault.
He did nothing bad? Did you miss the part where he was responsible for people being killed? Tug of war, and he cheated the old man. Those examples are what I can think of off the top of my head. He had plenty to feel remorseful for. The whole reason he was there was because he was such a loser in life. It was only after he found out that he didn't actually get the old man killed that his attitude changed.
share"and he cheated the old man." out of necessity. The only way to survive.
" It was only after he found out that he didn't actually get the old man killed that his attitude changed." or was it after someone stopped and helped that homeless showing him that there is some good in the world??
Could be argued that both.
He had a lot to be remoseful about - he had the money but lost his mother, lost people he cared about, and just came out of a killing spree. There are many reasons why he might feel shame for that money, how ridiculous it must seem, and dirty. I can completely understand not wanting to touch it initially. It is only once he found a way to turn it into something good that he could get over the disgust and feeling of shame.
In my culture, French, not using the money makes the most sense. We lose our appetite for life, and the money is meaningless when we are prt of such a sick experiment. In France it is more important to be honorable than to bathe in riches. We don't have the same relationship to money compared to the US. Korea and Japan are on the same plane, honor and self-respect is very important for mental stability.
He was crying the whole time he was cheating the old man, so there is no way you will convince me that he did not know that what he was doing was horrible, and wrong. He came back to the game willingly, knowing the stakes this time, so he is responsible for everything he took part in. At no point did he say he wanted to leave and try to initiate another vote to end it.
You must be from one of those low empathy countries on that chart you sent me if you honestly believe he did nothing bad.
I felt the very same way but like many in this thread he redeems himself as the story progresses. With that being said I completely resent what the writers did to throw this all away at the very end of the season to justify another.
shareThrow it all away?
shareIn the context of making up for me wanting to punch him in the face.
shareWhat did the writers throw away?
shareLemme back up. I'm saying that over the course of the show, Player 456 is shown to have redeeming qualities of caring, selflessness, etc. They took five steps forward and two steps back at the very end of the season in order to make room for an unnecessary, presumed sequel. This is what I mean.
shareWhat. Was. The. Step. Back? Why did you not like him again at the end? What happened at the end that negated his progress? I have tried to ask this 3 times now.
shareHe finally had the opportunity to be a presence in his daughter's life but instead decides to literally turn around and presumably get involved in the Squid Game again. Is that better?
shareOh, I don't think you understood the ending. Gi-hun wasn't going back in, he wants to bring Front Man down. He wants to avenge the lives of those who died and kill the people involved in the game.
shareYeah I figured as much. I should've been more clear when I said "going back". Not as a participant but more of seems to be a vigilante. Maybe it's just me but being somewhat of a presence in my daughter's life far outweighs interfering in such a life threatening undertaking. They seemed to cut ties with Gi-hun and the money was his so why not just consider it a VERY bad dream?
shareNow you're made he's trying to be a hero?! Are you serious with this?
shareDude...no one's, "mad" at anything. The point is it's probably a lot more responsible to at least make an attempt to be a better father than it is risking your life as a sole vigilante. Let me ask you: given the outcome of Wi Ha-Joon, would try and do the same...especially not having a dog in the fight?
shareHis actions are the opposite of selfish. He never spent the money because he felt so guilty. Then he gets to the point where he starts to and is going to live a happy life with his kid then gets wind it's starting up again and feels compelled to stop it. He's giving up a happy life to help save people's lives. Again, Are. You. Serious. With. This?
shareSo in your mind he is a better person if he goes spend time with his daughter creating some messed up family structure with 2 fathers instead of trying to save others from being killed in next versions of squid game?
Okay bro.
No one's suggesting he move in with his ex and her husband to become a third wheel to the household. Believe it or not a man can still be a presence in their child's life after divorce. The risk/reward factor in bringing down a highly dangerous criminal syndicate vs. the aforementioned seems like a no brainer to me but I guess there's others out there that have an untouchable, Superman-esque mindset.
shareRight?! The guy is riddled with guilt and PTSD and when he hears there's another Squid Game tries to stop it. That's fucking admirable.
shareWas he horrible, or just flawed? One of his other character traits was a deep sense of humanity. He seemed incapable of murder and the end, he bet everything he owned (which was a lot at the time) that someone would help the drunk on the street. True of most of the primary adult characters that get fleshed out. By the end, viewers were cheering on Kang Sae-byeok, but she is also a con artist that robbed innocent people. Ali was likeable, but he a maimed a guy and instead of getting help, robbed him and ran away. Ji-yeong sacrificed herself to save someone else, but she was also a murderer. Han Mi-nyeo was manipulative and unlikeable, but perhaps through a hard bumpy life, she adopted that persona to survive.
Perhaps the only character that seemed to be all dark was Jang Deok-su
These comments are mind-numbingly stupid. His childhood friend is a murderer. The gangster contestant is a murderer. The annoying woman who slept with the gangster is a murderer. The people who run the "game" are murderers. But the main character is 'a HorrIblE pErsOn".
*facepalm*
"The protagonist is a horrible person!"
His friend is a murderer. The gangster contestant is a murderer. The annoying woman who slept with the gangster is a murderer. The people who run the "game" are murderers.
Are you sure you know what horrible means?
Reminded me of the leader character in train to business, a Korean horror film. The dad in that seems to only care about money and not his daughter but you see him develop over the film.
The lead in this seems very selfish and I suppose he is but we learn that it was losing his job and witnessing someone die during the strike then his wife leaving him with their daughter, that led to him spiraling out of control and gambling.