>People *are* watching our other things, and those other things are being ruined too. It’s not just Star Wars and superheroes, but Star Trek, Doctor Who, Lord of the Rings, James Bond, the list goes on. The only thing left that seems to be immune to woke change, for now at least, is anime and manga, though the west is sure as hell trying to change that too through their dubs.
Doctor Who has always been family-friendly TV. And it's "ruined" mostly because it's just been on for so long and there's only so much that franchise can be stretched.
How has James Bond been ruined? Not heard that one. Star Treks SNW has been a hit. Less so for some of their other modern shows, to be fair. By Lord of the Rings, you specifically mean ROP. Okay.
And no, you're just orbiting franchise media. There's tons of high quality modern TV shows and films out there.
>As you can see, people can’t just “watch something else”, because eventually that will get ruined too. At some point, people have to stand up and tell Hollywood enough. The only other thing left I suppose are small independent movies, but those are niche for a reason, they don’t appeal to a lot of people.
Doctor Who isn't Hollywood. A detail.
My knowledge is TV, so here's some stuff:
Warrior, Chernobyl, The Boys, The Queen's Gambit, The Last of Us, House of the Dragon, Ted Lasso, Mare of Easttow, Severance, The Sandman, The Bear, Andor, Reacher, After Life, Dahmer, Only Murders in the Building, Midnight Mass, Watchmen, Peacemaker, One Piece, The Haunting of Bly Manor, The Morning Show, Unbelievable, 1883, Shadow and Bone, Beef, The Terminal List, The Undoing, The Night Agent, Dead to Me, What We Do in the Shadows, Silo, Locke and Key, The Outsider, Unorthodox, Normal People, His Dark Materials, Yellowjackets
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LanceDance (1133)
8 months ago
That’s a nice list there, it would be a shame if they were either cancelled or pulled a bait-and-switch. Though Last of Us and Sandman were pretty bad in my opinion. I haven’t seen quitan few things on that list, but their downfall is inevitable.
James Bond isn’t the man of intrigue he used to be, he wasn’t allowed to be a womanizer in his later movies and he’s been said to be problematic by Daniel Craig himself. You’d have to be living under a rock to have missed that.
You are right about me mistakingly lumping Doctor Who with Hollywood, but always being family friendly, or diverse, is not the same as being woke. If it were, people wouldn’t be complaining.
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Skavau (11243)
8 months ago
>That’s a nice list there, it would be a shame if they were either cancelled or pulled a bait-and-switch. Though Last of Us and Sandman were pretty bad in my opinion. I haven’t seen quitan few things on that list, but their downfall is inevitable.
I linked miniseries or shows that have been successful. I can keep going: Dopesick, Your Honor, The Lincoln Lawyer, From, Hijack, For All Mankind, The Great, The Diplomat, Slow Horses, Devs, Mayor of Kingstown, Gen V, Hanna, Gangs of London, The Offer, Hacks, Tokyo Vice, The Act, Station Eleven, Years and Years, Evil
Also, have you considered watching non-American or UK content from time to time?
The Last of Us is highly rated.
>You are right about me mistakingly lumping Doctor Who with Hollywood, but always being family friendly, or diverse, is not the same as being woke. If it were, people wouldn’t be complaining.
My point is that like the MCU, it's basically made for teenagers. There's a serious amount of arrested development going on regarding people who orbit Disney and Star Wars.
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LanceDance (1133)
8 months ago
I’ve long since watched more non-American content at this point, but I’m still aware of the downfall of American entertainment. UK content has been more hit than miss, they’re as bad as America.
“Successful” is a relative term today. You don’t need that many views to be contracted more seasons, just look at the CW. And keeping track of viewership isn’t what it used to be. I’m not saying there aren’t good shows, but I’d be weary of using words like “successful”.
The MCU has always been made for various age-groups, not just teens, but has since been targeted exclusively to women and girls, even though women and girls clearly prefer things like Barbie.
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Skavau (11243)
8 months ago
>I’ve long since watched more non-American content at this point, but I’m still aware of the downfall of American entertainment. UK content has been more hit than miss, they’re as bad as America.
What content is this? I assume anime.
US TV has never been more stylistically diverse as it has been in the last 10 years, at least for TV.
>“Successful” is a relative term today. You don’t need that many views to be contracted more seasons, and keeping track of viewership isn’t what it muses to be. Im it saying there aren’t good shows, but I’d be weary of suing words like “successful”.
That's what I meant by successful.
>The MCU has always been made for various age-groups, not just teens, but has since been targeted exclusively to women and girls, even though women and girls prefer the things like Barbie.
It's always been juvenile media. Most superhero media has. For the life of me, I cannot understand this cultural obsession people have with the MCU as if it should be prestige media, but isn't due to 'wokism'. It's always been blockbuster schlock.
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LanceDance (1133)
8 months ago
Anime, and foreign films too. Like I said, that’s all that’s left, when not including certain video games and books, though they're in a similar boat.
How would you define successful? And “stylistically diverse”?
The MCU was never considered prestige entertainment, it was just good fun. It was the Star Wars of its time, an event for all ages. Now, its an empty husk trying to check boxes to stay relevant.
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Skavau (11243)
8 months ago
>Anime, and foreign films too. Like I said, that’s all that’s left, when not including certain video games and books.
K-drama says hi. European TV shows say hi.
And all the TV shows I referenced.
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LanceDance (1133)
8 months ago
And I say “hi” too. But you can’t beat a virus by ignoring it. You can’t just go and say “hey, what about this guy? He’s healthy, just hang out with him from now on! Forget about about your friend who you grew up with!” The virus will spread, it always does, and we’ll have no where else to go for our entertainment.
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Skavau (11243)
8 months ago
...why not?
And how does it "spread"? I've watched tons of high-quality TV shows in the last decade from the USA and Europe and elsewhere.
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LanceDance (1133)
8 months ago
You’re asking me why you cant just ignore a virus? And how viruses spread? Unironically?
They might be high quality to you. I’ve seen some of those shows and sure, they’re pretty good, for now. I’m certainly up for watching the rest if they’re as good as you claim.
But when all the mainstream franchises eventually file for bankruptcy, where do you think the activists will go to next? The alternative media, aka your “high-quality TV shows” and movies, that’s where.
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Skavau (11243)
8 months ago
There's no reason to believe it's "infecting" everything.
>They might be high quality to you. I’ve seen some of those shows and sure, they’re pretty good, for now. I’m certainly up for watching the rest if they’re as good as you claim.
What shows that I listed have you seen?
>But when all the mainstream franchises eventually file for bankruptcy, where do you think the activists will go to next? The alternative media, aka your “high-quality TV shows” and movies, that’s where.
You can't control "alternative media". And, an example, Warrior is *not* "alternative media". This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0QMqpHXYeM is not some independent art project.
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LanceDance (1133)
8 months ago
"There's no reason to believe it's "infecting" everything."
Why? You really think they're just gonna stop at the mainstream franchises? You think they invaded all those fandoms just to stop now? Does it need to infect your favorite shows before you realize how infectious it is?
"What shows that I listed have you seen?"
After skimming through your lists: Gen V, The Boys, One Piece, House of the Dragon, Midnight Mass (that one was really good), The Sandman (bad), The Last of Us (mid), Watchmen (terrible), Peacemaker, The Haunting 1 and 2, The Terminal List. There's probably a few more I missed, but the point is I watched my fair share.
I wouldn't call the good ones "top quality", though Midnight Mass comes close.
"You can't control 'alternative media'. "
Dude, nothing is beyond their control, even if indirectly, like anime dubs. They just haven't gotten to it yet. In this context, "alternative media" refers to something that isn't mainstream, or not among the popular franchises. It doesn't necessarily have to be an indie production.
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Skavau (11243)
8 months ago
>Why? You really think they're just gonna stop at the mainstream franchises? You think they invaded all those fandoms just to stop now? Does it need to infect your favorite shows before you realize how infectious it is?
How would they "infect them"? My favourite show is a German neo-noir set in the Weimar Republic.
>Dude, nothing is beyond their control, even if indirectly, like anime dubs. They just haven't gotten to it yet. In this context, "alternative media" refers to something that isn't mainstream, or not among the popular franchises. It doesn't necessarily have to be an indie production.
I don't care about dubs. I'll always use subtitles.
Anyway, your premise is just wrong. There isn't some insidious agenda to "infect" studios. There are shows and films with varying levels of 'wokeness' and that's it. The MCU isn't going anywhere anyway, but you can just move on and watch other things. I could continue to name more and more shows by the way, but moviechat has no embed function.
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LanceDance (1133)
8 months ago
"How would they 'infect them'? "
By targeting what's popular, then taking advantage of diversity quotas to get hired, and then inserting their radical views in the writing room.
And there *is* an agenda, they've been caught on camera admitting as much, the most famous example being that Disney interview with the "not-so-secret gay agenda". They've said they're updating various franchises "for modern audiences", I don't know how much more agenda-driven it needs to look for you.
"I don't care about dubs. I'll always use subtitles."
That's fine, until they start altering the subs too. You can then say "stick to fan subs", and we can, at the cost of not supporting the product.
"but you can just move on and watch other things."
As we've established, we can't just keep moving on, eventually there won't be anything left to move on to. And I'll say again, if anyone needs to be told to move on, it's the activists who complain when an IP isn't to their liking. But we didn't tell them that, and here we are.
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Skavau (11243)
8 months ago
>By targeting what's popular, then taking advantage of diversity quotas to get hired, and then inserting their radical views in the writing room.
And there *is* an agenda, they've been caught on camera admitting as much, the most famous example being that Disney interview with the "not-so-secret gay agenda". They've said they're updating various franchises "for modern audiences", I don't know how much more agenda-driven it needs to look for you.
And how would this impact a German TV show? How would this impact Silo? Or Sweet Home?
I really don't care that Disney decides to "update franchises" for a modern audience. I don't watch fairytales, or superhero schlock.
>As we've established, we can't just keep moving on, eventually there won't be anything left to move on to. And I'll say again, if anyone needs to be told to move on, it's the activists who complain when an IP isn't to their liking. We should've done that in the first place, but we didn't. And here we are.
This is a weird conspiracy theory, honestly. Social mores are different than they were in the 80s and 90s. Being LGBT is more accepted. There are more non-white people in western culture. TV shows and films reflect these societal shifts. Some are stupid and pander, some pander less.
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LanceDance (1133)
8 months ago
"And how would this impact a German TV show?"
You think Germany isn't dealing with this stuff too? You think these petty political squabbles are only in America and the UK?
"This is a weird conspiracy theory, honestly"
Not when they outright admitted it.
No one has a problem with LGBTs or POCs, the issue is the media fetishizing them while denigrating on straight whites, and sacrificing good writing for pushing radical agendas. I say this as someone who isn't straight, white, or male, and I'm not the only "marginalized person" who feels this way.
Being diverse is fine, always has been. Being woke is not fine, and never will be.
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Skavau (11243)
8 months ago
>You think Germany isn't dealing with this stuff too? You think these petty political squabbles are only in America and the UK?
Babylon Berlin is in its 4th season, likely 5th. How could it even impact it?
>Not when they outright admitted it.
Can you source me exactly what they said?
>No one has a problem with LGBTs or POCs, the issue is the media fetishizing them while denigrating on straight whites, and sacrificing good writing for pushing radical agendas.
Doesn't happen in anything I've watched, to my memory at all. No reason to think it suddenly will. Most stuff that is way too on the nose about it absolutely tanks.
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LanceDance (1133)
8 months ago
Haven't seen Babylon Berlin, so I can't say one way or another if it's woke or not. I have seen Dark, though, so if BB is anything like that, then German TV appears to be safe, for now.
You can search around yourself for how people across various media have tried making entertainment for "modern audiences". from reinterpreting Tolkien with Rings of Power, Kathleen Kennedy saying "The Force Is Female", Neil Druckmann talking about ditching the male gaze in video games, Anita Sarkeesian being herself, the list goes on.
"Doesn't happen in anything I've watched, to my memory at all. No reason to think it suddenly will."
I'll have to take your word on it for now. Don't get too comfortable though. At the very least, you could try and sympathize with those who's favorite franchises have changed for the worst. Even if they take on new things, it's not as easy as "moving on" from something they grew up with and love.
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Skavau (11243)
8 months ago
>You can search around yourself for how people across various media have tried making entertainment for "modern audiences". from reinterpreting Tolkien with Rings of Power, Kathleen Kennedy saying "The Force Is Female", Neil Druckmann talking about ditching the male gaze in video games, Anita Sarkeesian being herself, the list goes on.
And most of these are grifters. I saw the shitty ratings come in for ROP and decided not to bother. A lot of people can save themselves time if they check IMDB ratings before jumping into TV shows.
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LanceDance (1133)
8 months ago
They may be grifters, but they have influence, unfortunately, as do the whiners on Twitter. For some reason, studios listen to them instead of their loyal paying audience.
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