MovieChat Forums > Aaliyah Discussion > Stop making her a "thing"

Stop making her a "thing"


People are very desperate to turn this non-entity into some legendary, tragic figure on par with Billie Holiday or something.

She was nothing special, just famous for having died early, but left absolutely no impact on culture or music whatsoever. I wish people would stop making her a "thing", and would focus on the true legends of stage and screen.

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Agreed

It’s like Jazee, or however that moron spells his moniker. He was a crack dealer preying on people’s weaknesses. Now he’s a successful music artist which I think is great and he turned his life around. But does this asshole get treated like he’s royalty? I love how the white dipshits pander to this guy

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Do you mean Jay-Z aka Shawn Carter?

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Yes, I think he means Jay-Z.

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I think all of this is part of a conspiracy to dumb down the American public. When I was a kid, we were taught to respect legendary artists like Jimi Hendrix, Bob Marley, The Beatles, The Stones, Nirvana, even older singers like Frank Sinatra and Johnny Cash. But people in the media insist on teaching the new generation to see mediocre artists like Biggie Smalls and Aaliyah as legends. In NYC, officials we actually got a street named after Biggie Smalls. Can you imagine? We have streets named after detectives who died in the line of duty, veterans, famous artists, mayors, governors and...Biggie Smalls.

This has got to be deliberate. The thing about older legendary artists is that they often sang about deep stuff (especially political issues), so I think that's why the mainstream media keeps elevating these crappy acts to royal status. The Powers That Be don't want a new generation of Americans to hear powerful music that could change things.

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No offense but you're coming off as a bit of a nutter with all this "conspiracy" talk. There are far more important things to be outraged about.

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lol

hello from across the pond!

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Oh, I’m not British. I just like that term. Lol.

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lol

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I do too. I read JJ Connolly and he uses a lot of cool brit terms like that. They have a whole huge vocabulary we know nothing of! lol

And it's colorful too. And fun.

Like, 'old Bill' is one of the terms for law enforcement. Also 'grass' is another term for law enforcement/cops

great stuff. :)

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Right? I like learning the differences between words like “car park” (what we call a “parking lot”), “till” (“cash register”) and “nappies” (“diapers”).

“Old Bill” and “Grass” are new to me. Thanks! :)

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I don't give a rat's ass how you think I come across. I'm old enough to remember when there were deliberate attempts in the 1980s and 1990s to "dumb down" American TV, movies and political discourse across the board. It was so blatant that this led to dozens of articles and books written about the phenomenon, a movie based around the concept (Idiocracy, by Mike Judge) and even a Wikipedia entry that discusses it in full detail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumbing_down. Google the phrase "dumbing down of America," and you will see thousands of websites referencing it. If TV shows, movies and political talk shows were deliberately dumbed down for 20 years, why on earth would pop music not also be part of the equation?

So, call me a nutter all you want. I think it's being a nutter not wondering why so many talentless artists--most who sing or rap bullshit like "Booty", "My Humps" and "Stupid Hoe"--are being pushed to the forefront and so many talented artists are being ignored. Or why people like Alex Jones and Joe Rogan were elevated as political pundits, or why TMZ was given so much influence in the news media.

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Wow, you’re really aggressive sniping at me and using foul language. It’s not that serious.

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Wow, another person who instigates a hostile response and then plays the victim when responded to in the exact same manner.

If you knew anything about "British slang"--and I do-- you'd know how condescending and insulting that term, "nutter," is. By the way, it's tacky to pretend to be a nationality you're not on the internet, because if you act like a jerk, this will confuse people into thinking that someone from that country is being a jerk. It's also a form of trolling.

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Pointing out that you’re the aggressor when you falsely accused me of being one and telling you it isn’t that serious isn’t playing the victim.

I also didn’t “pretend to be British” by using that term. And if someone reads an online exchange where someone is being rude (which I wasn’t) and comes away from it with the assumption that all or most of the people of that nationality are rude then they’re not very bright to start with.

And I think it’s tacky to curse at someone when they weren’t being hostile or argumentative to you.

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Actually, you were rude.

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I think all of this is part of a conspiracy to dumb down the American public. When I was a kid, we were taught to respect legendary artists like Jimi Hendrix, Bob Marley, The Beatles, The Stones, Nirvana, even older singers like Frank Sinatra and Johnny Cash. But people in the media insist on teaching the new generation to see mediocre artists like Biggie Smalls and Aaliyah as legends. In NYC, officials we actually got a street named after Biggie Smalls. Can you imagine? We have streets named after detectives who died in the line of duty, veterans, famous artists, mayors, governors and...Biggie Smalls.

I feel the same way. Exactly. It's SUCH an emperor's clothes situation. It reminds me of Jonathan Silver's line from Ed TV where he said 'early on you had to do something great to become famous. Now people are considered great for simply becoming famous' (or something to that effect)

I think 'hip hop' is the biggest joke perpetrated on the gullible buying public since who knows what. It's like a funny joke they never expected to be taken seriously, then the idiotic public take it and runs with it and someone said 'wow, they think its for real, that this stuff is good. Heck why don't we make some money off these idiots'

Like in Rocky when Apollo's trainer tells Apollo 'This guy doesn't know it's an exhibition. He thinks it's a real fight. Finish the bum so we can go home."

Somebody put 'hip hop' up on display and told us 'this is quality music, it takes REAL skill to do this' and millions fell for the joke.

Jay Z is a perfect example of benefiting from this lunacy. smh


today at work I clicked on a youtube (here it is if you are interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IgBGNQ6tow ) to show a friend and we sat there and talked about how GOOD black music USED TO BE and how what it's turned into today is largely marginal, even plain bad. (that goes for all music but anyway)

Those cats in the 60s and 70s knew music FOR REAL. They knew how to play instruments. They PRACTICED. They usually knew more than one instrument. Often several or many. Often they had been conservatory trained prior to entering the pop music scene. I can give example after example of this.

And then one day the whole movement just decided to go off a cliff, voluntarily, and ll be brain dead.

Thank God I have my recordings. I for one will spend the rest of my life reliving all that old good music. Call me a dinosaur I don't care. That is my taste.

=====================
Here's some other faves:

The Tavares Brothers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VAtRF4US8k

The Spinners https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIAcSfOa5Y4

the lovely and talented Minnie Ripperton (RIP) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRBHSkXWPCs
Minnie was classically trained, extensively and rigorously, her whole life.

Gwen Dickey. Nuff said. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5gFAiPJhvI

More Gwen Dickey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH7vLvoS4M8

Brothers Johnson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPBDMihPRJA

Atlantic Star https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUzqXwxtzVo

Earth Wind and Fire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrle0x_DHBM

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It's like a funny joke they never expected to be taken seriously, then the idiotic public take it and runs with it and someone said 'wow, they think its for real, that this stuff is good. Heck why don't we make some money off these idiots”


Haha! Your comment reminded me of the pet rock craze from the 70’s (Yes kiddies, this was a thing. They even sold accessories, such as leashes, shampoo, etc :D ).

Yes, I’m firmly convinced at this point that you can convince most people, of most anything, given enough time, in conjunction with an effective propaganda campaign.

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totally agree.

I forgot about the pet rock lol. thanks!

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True, that's why marketing is so dangerous and why I eliminate as much as possible from my life. I won't watch anything with commercials and even mute the radio when ads come on. Marketeers are very good at their job which influencing how we think and feel about everything from clothing, food, and politics.

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The artists you listed are fantastic! I grew up in the 90s but my family always had old-school soul, funk and jazz playing in the house and I absorbed it. Apart from a few artists, I don’t listen to current pop radio and instead seek out singers and bands the mainstream don’t pay attention to. There’s a lot of great stuff out there waiting to be discovered. You just gotta look. :)

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Somebody put 'hip hop' up on display and told us 'this is quality music, it takes REAL skill to do this' and millions fell for the joke.


I agree and disagree with you.

Hip hop in its purest form is just as artistic and wonderful an art form as any other. The problem is that because it became too "empowering" for urban black youth, music producers during the Reagan Era deliberately weaponized it against the black community. They went out of their way to find anyone who would help perpetuate negative images of blacks to the public. This is why, all of a sudden in the 1980s, you suddenly had all these rap acts using the N-word, incorporating prison culture (like the baggy, saggy pants) and using guns as status symbols. It was all about taking the most empowering music form to date and going, "We're going to let these n****** become empowered. We're going to teach them how to call each other the N-word with pride, denigrate their women as bitches and hos and embody the worst racial stereotypes."

Case in point: have you ever heard of Digable Planets? This was the very first act that tried reclaiming "hip hop" back from the music industry and remind everyone that rap had its roots in the "beat poetry/jazz" movement in the 1950s, and was all about black empowerment. They had a massive hit, Rebirth Of Slick (Cool Like Dat).

What happened? They scored a Grammy, and then the mainstream never talked about them again. The mainstream continued pushing the nihilistic "cop killa/bling bling" crap. And now we're at the point where rap isn't even intelligible anymore. All a person has to do mumble stuff with a decent beat.

This problem is the part where I agree with you. Yes, the Powers That Be are deliberately pushing hip hop onto urban youth, so that they lose touch with the "old school" stuff that was empowering and took talent and skill. But it's not really hip hop. It's a degraded, commercialized form that has nothing to do with the form.

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Nice post. You are way deeper into it than I am. I'm sure all you said is true.

I glossed over some points in my other post. Which is, what you alluded to, which is that it didn't start out as crap. I agree with this. I liked Run DMC and Sugar Hill Gang etc. But.... BUT..... I still would not put their talents on the level with The Spinners OJays Commodores Earth Wind and Fire Delfonics Al Wilson Al Green The Temptations etc etc

Like I said, the pop music world of 60s 70s was packed full of MUSICIANS. And skilled ones, at that.

Yeah maybe the powers that be pushed a subversive message through rap. Still, the public had to buy into it. I just think it's sad that black music lost it truly original glory. Gone. Vanished. Puff.

(please please oh baby please I hope no contrary mary's pop up here to fire off a retort on one single line or whatever. Geesh I am so tired of that.)

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I liked Run DMC and Sugar Hill Gang etc. But.... BUT..... I still would not put their talents on the level with The Spinners OJays Commodores Earth Wind and Fire Delfonics Al Wilson Al Green The Temptations etc etc.


You might be surprised to hear this, but I agree with you. Not only do I agree with you, I absolutely HATE Run-DMC. I know it's sacrilegious to say that, but they were the downfall of rap music. They were the ones that invented so-called "commercial rap". Once rap became "commercial", this is when record producers outside of the urban community got their hands on the genre and turned it into what it became. I curse the day that Run-DMC ever became popular. Again, it's a sacrilege to say that but I'm old enough to remember when they scored their major hit with, "Walk this Way," and even back then I was thinking, "Oh, no!" If it were not for Run-DMC, rap would've gone in a completely different direction, like it has in other countries. Rap in England, Japan, etc. is ironically more in keeping with the origins of hip hop than the US.

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Fascinating. I didn't know that but it makes sense. I hear French rap in movies and Spanish rap and yes it does seem different.

Plus our because so violent that took the fun out of it for anyone with good sense and decorum. I don't know how one can justify all the degradation that has consumed it over the years.

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I don't know how one can justify all the degradation that has consumed it over the years.


Unfortunately, it got justified by finding sellouts within the industry who argued that rap music was "keepin' it real." That's where that expression came from. There was all this push back from the black community at the time complaining about the vulgarity, violence, etc. and that was their response, that you couldn't complain against it because if you did, you were arguing against "the truth."

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Ah. That sounds right. You really a girl? My hunch is no lol

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Nope, haven't been a "girl" in a very long time. I've outgrown my user name, hehe.

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that's not exactly what I meant but okay lol

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You may live in NY, but you were obviously not born and raised here. Big had a large personality, was well liked and respected. He was the best at what he did and in most songs he would shout out/praise where he was from which was Brooklyn. My 64yr old Jewish employer knows every word to Gimme The Loot. That's right; an old white guy born in 1955 raps along to Gimme the Loot. Mediocre artist? Not in the slightest.

Now when it comes to the govmint trying to dumb down the people, I'm with you there, its obvious.
All you have to do is walk outside.

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she looked great doing nothing

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Of course. She's dead, all right?!

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I am aware that she is dead.

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If she’s such a “non-entity” why are you bothering posting on her board?

And your claim that she made no impact on pop culture or music is inaccurate. A lot of today’s female singers are influenced by her (Rihanna, Ciara, FKA Twigs, just to name a few).

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If she’s such a “non-entity” why are you bothering posting on her board?


Because every so often, this non-entity keeps being shoved down everyone's throats as if trying to convince us that she were Janis Joplin or Billie Holiday. There are a gazillion stories popping up in my news feed this week about her getting a wax figure at Madame Tussaud's. I'm getting sick of it and I'm pushing back against it. She was nowhere near this popular or influential to garner all this attention, especially not big enough to be given a place at Tussaud's. If you had asked anyone back when she was alive who the queens of R and B are, the last thing anyone would've said was Aaliyah. They would've said Mariah Carey or Mary J. Blige or Toni Braxton or Whitney Houston. Aaliyah was an also-ran. She was not the big leagues.

She wasn't a music legend, no matter how desperately her fans keep lobbying for her to be immortalized as one. She wasn't a legendary actress either, yet people keep trying to make it seem as if she was a movie away from winning an Oscar.

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Then why feed into it by complaining? That's fine that you don't care about her (despite making a thread on her board) but your outrage over the coverage of her getting a wax figure is over the top and a bit silly. You didn't find her talented or worthy of attention but that's your opinion. Not a fact.

And of course she wasn't a "legendary" singer or actress. She died at the age of 22 and had a lot more work to do.

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Wow, you're coming across as a serious troll right now.

I didn't express any "outrage." I wrote a three sentence response expressing why I didn't think she was that big a deal. I didn't even mention the wax figure.

You came along in an angry manner putting me on the defensive, demanding to know why I was on her board. So, I answered the question and explained that the constant news feeds about the wax figures are why I posted. Now you're taking the answer that I gave to you to use against me, to claim I'm being "over the top." Why did you ask me a question if you were only going to use my answer to claim outrage? Because you really wanted an answer, or just to bait me?

Point is, I'm far from being outraged. If I came across as angry in my response, it's because I didn't like your sneering, argumentative tone putting me on the defensive, demanding that I justify my being on this board. So I responded in kind.

You didn't find her talented or worthy of attention but that's your opinion. Not a fact.


Uh huh. As opposed to you, who thinks it's a fact that she was so influential and worthy of attention...right? In other words, it's a "fact" when you post but an "opinion" when others disagree with your "fact"?

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We obviously have different ideas of what “trolling” is and no, I’m not pissed at all. Should I be?

I wasn’t aggressive or “demanding” to know why you bothered posting on her board. I asked because you called her a “non-entity” and complained that you were sick of her fans putting her on the same level as Billie Holiday so it’s only logical that I ask why you’re contributing to the (in your opinion) undeserved attention you feel she didn’t deserve. Nothing “pissed off” or “trollish” about it. You’re being overly defensive for no reason. And I stand corrected about the wax figure. You did mention that in your first response and not your first post.

And no, it’s not a fact that she was talented. That’s also an opinion. And another no to “baiting” you. I simply asked a question.

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Because every so often, this non-entity keeps being shoved down everyone's throats as if trying to convince us that she were Janis Joplin or Billie Holiday. There are a gazillion stories popping up in my news feed this week about her getting a wax figure at Madame Tussaud's. I'm getting sick of it and I'm pushing back against it.


Your compassion toward the memory of a 22 year old who died in a plane crash is truly inspiring. Somehow I doubt "a gazillion" stories are popping up on your news feed and if it's truly too many for you to deal with then you should change the news feeds you subscribe to instead of expecting it to change to suit you.

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Well said, SamGerard!

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Thank you sir!

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It’s “m’am” but you’re welcome! Lol.

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Beg you're pardon m'am lol!

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You are pardoned, kind sir. ;)

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"Your compassion toward the memory of a 22 year old who died in a plane crash is truly inspiring."

Not taking any sides here, but how is this an argument in any way? Seems like nothing but shameless guilt tripping

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Shameless? Well that's pretty much my middle name ;) But come on man, this is the internet...people don't feel guilty so guilt trips are pointless. But I found her lack of compassion kinda patehetic personally and have no problem saying so. As for me making an argument, I think I made my point with the line that followed:
Somehow I doubt "a gazillion" stories are popping up on your news feed and if it's truly too many for you to deal with then you should change the news feeds you subscribe to instead of expecting it to change to suit you.

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She died young and had a nice career in the industry. I liked her but wasnt a big fan at the time but remember a lot of people deeply mourned her death. Im a fan now and might see some seeing her not a big thing but still she did have her fans, unique style, uprising career, and tragic stop.

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I believe she was already a thing. She was a star on the rise - this is evidenced by the career path she was on before she died. Romeo Must Die and Queen of the Damned were huge, from my recollection. Her songs played constantly on the radio. And despite how they turned out, her part in The Matrix sequels was widely anticipated. Even after a five year hiatus from music due to filming, her album was still in the top 2 before she died, just behind Survivor by Destiny's Child. It reached no. 1 after she died, sure, but it's not like it went from 50th to 1st.

You're definitely entitled to your indifference to her, but making out that her career was mediocre and downplaying her cultural impact on modern music is just plain factual inaccuracy.

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Well said. This OP needs to get over themselves because no ones going to stop "making her a thing" just because he or she doesn't share their opinion of her impact for music in her brief time. She was a huge star and deserves all the love she has gotten. Why? she worked hard and earned it.

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Thanks, Thriller.

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You could say the same thing about James Dean or Bruce Lee or Sid Vicious if you wanted to.
So what?

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