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Am I being racist?


I get really upset whenever I see other races making a career from dancing hip hop. Hip hop was created from the black experience. These other races don't know anything about being black. They couldn't care less about black people.

I don't see blacks in ballroom dancing. Does that mean that blacks aren't good enough?

Why is it that blacks are not accepted in other dance professions of other cultures but other cultures are good enough to be professional hip hop dancers?


I understand that there are some blacks dancing ballet professionally. Keep in mind though with ballet, a traditionally caucasian or Asian dance profession, only take the very BEST.

But it seems like with hip hop, anybody is good enough? I'm sorry but I want the very BEST dancing hip hop. Only a black person can accomplish that the very best hip hop choreography.


Does feeling all that make me racist? I hope not.😟

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It's just a cultural thing. When I was in school, we had a few black guys who would play hockey with us but their black friends would give them shit for "not playing a black sport".

No one is stopping black people from ballroom dancing, they just don't want to do it. In the last Winter Olympics, there were just under 3000 athletes that competed. Of those athletes, there were less than 50 black people who participated in the events. Was it racism that stopped them? No, they just weren't good enough to qualify and I don't believe many even tried out to begin with.

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"Of those athletes, there were less than 50 black people who participated in the events. Was it racism that stopped them? No, they just weren't good enough to qualify and I don't believe many even tried out to begin with."


I believe that it was racism stopping them. Furthermore, I think that whites, Latinos, Asians, Italians, Jews, Koreans, and Indians ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO DANCE HIP HOP PROPERLY! And should never be allowed to do it professional unless they dance the choreography just like the very best black dancer can.

It is like that with other dance professions so it should also be that way with hip hop dancing since hip hop dancing is now a legitimate profession in which a dancer can make a good living doing it. They are performing with superstars and at the Academy Awards.

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I believe that it was racism stopping them.

In what way? Most competitions in the Olympics are about fastest time.

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I thought you were still talking about dancing. But it seems like you changed the subject entirely. Is that right?

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I'm talking about how things are cultural. Just because black people don't do ballroom dancing, that doesn't mean they don't do it because of racism. That's why I mentioned the Olympics.

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No, you were trying to compare dancing to Olympic track stars.

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You said: "I don't see blacks in ballroom dancing. Does that mean that blacks aren't good enough?"

That's the exact reason why I'm bringing up the Winter Olympics. Is it racism because hardly any black people participate in the events? No. Sometimes they just aren't good enough or they're just not interested. The same like ballroom dancing. You're more likely to find black breakdancers than ballroom dancers because it's a cultural thing.

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"That's the exact reason why I'm bringing up the Winter Olympics. Is it racism because hardly any black people participate in the events? No. Sometimes they just aren't good enough or they're just not interested. The same like ballroom dancing. You're more likely to find black breakdancers than ballroom dancers because it's a cultural thing."








I really don't know and I'm not even sure what any of that has to do with the issue about hip hop dancing?

I see more non black dancers on stage performing hip hop choreography at Beyonce's and Jennifer Lopez's concerts than I see black hip hop dancers?

Wtf? Black people created hip hop and the moves yet have been slowly pushed out of the public eye?

Don't you see that as a problem??

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I really don't know and I'm not even sure what any of that has to do with the issue about hip hop dancing?

Just because a race creates something, that doesn't mean it's only for that race. A man created a car, does that mean women shouldn't drive?
Wtf? Black people created hip hop and the moves yet have been slowly pushed out of the public eye?

Don't you see that as a problem??

No. No one is pushing them out. It's up to them if they want to continue hip hop dancing.

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Yeah. That's racist.

It might not be malicious racism, but it certainly is prejudiced. There are some fantastic black ballet dancers. Have you not heard of the Alvin Ailey company? Hip hop is more popular among certain cultures because it isn't cost prohibitive to take part. You can't learn ballet on a street corner. It's the same thing with certain sports, especially winter sports. Those cost money to take part in. Usually quite a bit.

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I said nothing about how ballet should be reserved for whites only. So I don't why you brought that up.

The dancers in Alvin Ailey Dance Theater are classically trained in ballet. Since you asked, no the black ballet dancers are not as good as the white or Asian ballet dancers working in the same ballet company like NYC Ballet or ABT for example.


Hip hop needs the same thing. The hip hop dance needs to be restricted just like ballet, tap and modern dance.

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>The hip hop dance needs to be restricted just like ballet, tap and modern dance.

They aren't restricted.

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Restricted to those dancers that have studied at an accredited dance academy.

There should be a hip hop dance academy or hip hop dancing schools where you learn to do the moves the correct way by masters of the dance(black people).

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>Restricted to those dancers that have studied at an accredited dance academy.

You don't have to be white to study there. Nor do you have to be white to take up an interest in ballet.

>There should be a hip hop dance academy or hip hop dancing schools where you learn to do the moves the correct way by masters of the dance(black people).

Want to fund them?

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"You don't have to be white to study there. Nor do you have to be white to take up an interest in ballet."

That is true. Black people are not excluded from ballet. HOWEVER TO BE A PROFESSIONAL BALLET DANCER, very few black dancers are good enough to be accepted into a ballet school of dance and into a ballet company.

The REASONS are because of body type, musicality, expression and technique. Something about ballet dance was specifically created for white people's body type, expression, pantomime and they way the steps are executed.

I've seen black ballerinas that are in balllet companies like Misty Copland. She's TERRIBLE.

BACK TO THE TOPIC.

I'm saying that there needs to be a hip hop standard of dance for technique that is recognized by the best and elite BLACK hip hop dancers in the profession!! And OFFICIAL dance hip hop dance academy be built nationwide and operated by the BEST BLACK hip hop dancers in the world.

Basically the same as with Ballet, Ballroom, Modern and so forth.


Too many people think that they can dance hip hop professionally while dancing it SUBPAR or average at best. That is not good enough.

Hip hop is just not street dancing like it used to be. People are making a good living out of dancing it professionally. Once something reaches that level of prestige then it should be treated as such TO PRESERVE THE INTEGRITY OF THE DANCE.

Look at Brad Pitt's daughter, Shiloh Jolie dance. She's not dancing on the level of the very best BLACK hip hop dancers.

https://youtube.com/shorts/AceHR5ygU5s

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>I'm saying that there needs to be a hip hop standard of dance for technique that is recognized by the best and elite BLACK hip hop dancers in the profession!! And OFFICIAL dance hip hop dance academy be built nationwide and operated by the BEST BLACK hip hop dancers in the world.

That's on hip hop dancers to do then.

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"That's on hip hop dancers to do then."

I think you are forgetting that the individual is just as powerful as the majority.

I'll keep spreading the word. This is only the beginning. Eventually Black hip hop dancers will agree with me and make the necessary changed to preserve this absolutely wonderful artform.

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β€œI'll keep spreading the word”

Good luck with that.

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I don't need luck to convince with as much money/jobs that black hip hop dancers are losing because the art is being taken over by other races that don't do it as well.

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I've seen black ballerinas that are in balllet companies like Misty Copland. She's TERRIBLE.
🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣

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No seriously. She IS a terrible prima ballerina. Have you seen her Juliet in Sergei Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet!

It should be illegal to have her dance that part. The choreographers had to make it easy just for her. That's not fair at all and a disservice to the ballet.

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Are you a dancer, or just some keyboard troll? Misty Copland is a beautiful dancer, but if you don't like her there are plenty of others to choose from. Personally I prefer Latoya Mokoena, but that's just me.

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β€œAnd OFFICIAL dance hip hop dance academy be built nationwide and operated by the BEST BLACK hip hop dancers in the world.”

Off you go then.

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Who is tap restricted to?

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Plumbers?

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Yes, it does.

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+1

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Hip hop isn’t a race, it’s a culture, and anyone that is part of that culture should be able to take part. I’m more bothered by a rich black kid trying to act hood, than a white, hispanic, or Asian acting like others in the environment that they grew up in.

If we are speaking specifically about dancing, it’s an art form and skill, and the best are the best period. I do think it’s a common feeling among black people to think they are the best at singing and dancing, an to be bothered when other races out perform them. But yes it’s born out of racism.

Let me ask you this, do you think black people are culture vultures for being so heavily involved in sports like basketball and football? They didn’t invent it.

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"Hip hop isn’t a race, it’s a culture, and anyone that is part of that culture should be able to take part. "

I'm sorry but that just is not true. I hope that you understand that moving forward.

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What? So white people shouldn't be allowed to make hip hop?

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How can white people make hip hop after it was already invented by black dancers?😐

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Why does it being of black-origins mean that white people can't also make it?

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That's a good question, Skavau.

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Because white people don't know how to choreography hip hop correctly. They make too many changes to it to make it easier for non black people to dance hip hop.

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Most people aren't interested in dancing to hip hop. And I'm not sure how you can claim to know this. Even if it's true, so what?

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I'm sorry but that just is not true. I hope that you understand that moving forward


I hope you do some research going forward. Hip hop being a culture is just a fact.

Black people greatly influenced that culture, but no, they were not the only ones. The Latin influence in particular, and presence has always been there. Just look up the pioneers of hip hop, look up the people that were there. It’s never been strictly a black thing. People have always had more in common based on socioeconomic status than skin color.

Also you didn’t answer my question about black people playing sports.

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People have always had more in common based on socioeconomic status than skin color.


Amen.

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" Hip hop being a culture is just a fact."

I am talking about hip hop dancing! So get that straight first before you completely try to change things around, changing the subject to suit your narrative.


As a dance discipline, hip hop is just that. It should be considered the same as ballet, tap, modern, ballroom dancing.

You wouldn't say that ballet is a culture, now would you? You wouldn't say that ballroom dancing is a culture, now would you?

So stop insulting the art of hip hop dance!

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Ok, we will go with that. Culture doesn't apply. There is nothing here for other races to misunderstand. Dance is purely just a merit based skill. Yet you think non black people can't do it because of the color of their skin, regardless of skill level. You are a racist. Lets just look at the definition of racism.


noun
noun: racism

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.



Also


the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.


The fact that you see black people as superior at hip hop dance, and other races as inferior. You are a text book racist.

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You can stop right there even though you went on a tangent that completely ignores my original post and everything that I have stated about hip hop dancing.


"Ok, we will go with that. Culture doesn't apply. There is nothing here for other races to misunderstand. Dance is purely just a merit based skill. Yet you think non black people can't do it because of the color of their skin, regardless of skill level. You are a racist. Lets just look at the definition of racism."


I did not say that white people or Mexicans, Asians or Indians or whatever other races could not participate in the art of hip hop dancing because of their skin color.

I specifically stated that they cannot do it "as well as" the best BLACK hip hop dancer BECAUSE of their skin color. Therefore should not be allowed to do it on a professional level. That is as backup dancers for successful mainstream artists like Beyonce and Jennifer Lopez.

I'm seeing more non white faces dancing on stage with Beyonce and Jennifer Lopez than I'm seeing black hip hop dancers! There's something wrong with that!!


Now you respond since I clarified things again for you.

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You haven’t really clarified anything. You’ve moved moved the goal posts with every reply, and I just let it go because it doesn’t change what you are saying. For example:

I specifically stated that they cannot do it "as well as" the best BLACK hip hop dancer BECAUSE of their skin color.


No, you said they couldn’t do it as well because they don’t understand the black experience. Which would be culture. When I pointed out hip hop was a culture, and could be understood by anyone you said not ah and made it strictly about dancing, which leaves less to understand than an entire culture.

But your underlying point never changes. You believe blacks people are better because of the color of their skin. Which is the definition of racism. So no matter how you try and spin it, you are racist.

β€œthe belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.”

Ask yourself this. Why would BeyoncΓ© hire non black dancers? She has plenty of influence in the industry, she can demand whatever she wants. What is her motivation here?

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I didn't move a goal post because there isn't a goal post.

They will never be as good of hip hop dancers as black people are!! Fact!


If you wanna call me a racist, then whatever. I don't care. What I believe should still happen regardless. Enough is enough of awful non black people making money dancing hip hop when they suck at it.

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No, what you did was post an OP for the sole purpose of creating a β€œstir the πŸ’© caldron”. It’s known as creating an argument for argument’s sake. You’ve jumped from pillar to post with this OP. People should be sage enough not to buy into your load of chit!

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Yes you did, I pointed out example in my previous post. Not only do you move the goal posts, but you avoid follow up questions. You avoided the question "is black people playing sports cultural appropriation, now you are avoid the question about Beyonce hiring non black dancers.

Ill answer it for you. There is no motivation for Beyonce to hire non black dancers. No one pushes Diversity on black people, that only goes one way. She has enough money and influence to go after the best, and that is what she is getting. Her non black backup dancers are the best, and they were better than black dancers, or else they wouldn't be there, and that is a fact.

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I think hip-hop started crossing over from the black community that pioneered it about forty seconds after Afrika Bambaataa hosted his first party. If you want to preserve hip-hop for one demographic, I think you're many decades too late for that. Hip-hop is pop culture.

Ballet is high culture. There's a much smaller pool of dancers and it's incredibly hard to get to the top of the profession. In that regard, it probably has more in common with professional sports than it does other forms of dance.

I think it's probably the case that more people (regardless of background) want to be involved with hip-hop culture than want to be ballroom dancers or ballerinas.

I don't think there should be barriers to entry based on ethnicity or background for any of these things.

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"Ballet is high culture. "
What is high culture? What classifies as high culture in your opinion? The fanbase?

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What classifies as high culture in your opinion?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_culture#Cultural_capital

I don't have an opinion as to what qualifies as 'high culture'. But in this context, I was using the term in contrast to 'popular culture'. I'm happy to change 'high culture' to 'niche interest' if you think 'high culture' has too much of a classist value judgement attached to it -- because I'd probably agree with that and it wouldn't alter my point.

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High culture is a European standard. The term comes from Europe. The culture comes from Europeans.

Be that as it may, that doesn't mean that hip hop is low artform that just any old Joe or Jane could get up on stage and perform on the level of the greatest black hip hop dancers and get paid do to it and perform on stage with Beyonce or in a music video. Hip hop is just as athlete as ballet. There are moves that are unique to hip hop. Now granted not all of the moves have names attached to them which is a shame. That needs to be changed in my opinion.

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Well, I've already stated that I'm happy to exchange 'high culture' for the more egalitarian term 'niche interest', because it doesn't alter my point. We don't really need to get into a sideline debate about the validity of terms such as high and low (or popular) culture. It's redundant.

However, hierarchies have always existed and continue to exist in every and all human societies. And those hierarchies have always extended to cultural capital and its signifiers. The idea that 'high culture' is a Europeanism is naive at best.

Hip hop is just as athlet[ic] as ballet.


No. It plainly isn't. Don't be silly. Ballet takes a level of dedication and years of arduous physical training from childhood that very few other forms of dance -- and certainly not popular dances -- require.

Nevertheless, regardless of that (which is another sideline debate), what you want in any professional dance troupe is the best dancers available to you. This obviously has nothing whatsoever to do with the amount of melanin in one's skin, because there's no scientific basis for that affecting coordination, learning speed, timing, agility or any of the other skills required for choreography.

Indeed, the more you stress hip-hop dancing as a set of technical moves, the more you undermine your original point that it's about a 'lived experience' that only one ethnicity could possibly achieve greatness in. Because you indicate more and more that it's something that can be learned.


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It's called appreciation. When people learn about other cultures and customs, they're showing an appreciation of it. Yes it racist when you look at their skin over their talent.

I swear the modern 5 generations are brainwashed into the same prejudices of the past but with different metrics.



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"It's called appreciation. When people learn about other cultures and customs, they're showing an appreciation of it. Yes it racist when you look at their skin over their talent."

I don't mind appreciation. However to perform it on the level of professionalism should be reserved for the dancers can perform the hip hop as well or better than the very best BLACK hip hop dancers.

If one move is not performed the exact same as the very best black hip hop dancer, then it the dancer is not qualified to dance hip hop professionally.

It is time for black hip hop dancers to take back the dance from all of these wannabe dancers of other ethnicities. Because they are ruining the dance.

"I swear the modern 5 generations are brainwashed into the same prejudices of the past but with different metrics."

Are you talking about me? I'm from the 1980s btw.

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Yep. It's racist and yep, your in the last 5 generations.

Congratulations, unless your a judge or a teacher, you're just nitpicking to justify your behavior. It's called moving the goal post. We saw the same behavior from past racists and bigots too. You're better than that. Live up to being better.

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"Congratulations, unless your a judge or a teacher, you're just nitpicking to justify your behavior. It's called moving the goal post. We saw the same behavior from past racists and bigots too. You're better than that. Live up to being better."

Okay you obviously do not know what you're talking about. I doubt very seriously that you have watched hip hop from the very beginning of its inception up until other races took over the dance so that they can make money doing it.

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Okay, the reaction to your Initial post seems uniform in response. To each response, you add caveats and try to lessen the perspective people have of your original post. That shows you don't care for the response. I don't blame you.

But I reccommed you accept the fact that it is a racist perspective and that you have a heart that obviously means better. That's why I think you have the ability to see the issue, grow, and move beyond it. I believe in you and your ability for more compassion and understanding.

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And this just went way over her head.

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"Okay, the reaction to your Initial post seems uniform in response. To each response, you add caveats and try to lessen the perspective people have of your original post. "


I haven't. I'm just clarifying because all these responses keep accusing me of saying that only black people should dance hip hop. Then I had to address all the other irrelevancies within other posts.

It's hard to have a discussion with people that got triggered from a topic that they know very little about!

Why get triggered over something that you know very little about? It makes no sense to me.

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Yeah, pretty much. Do you resent blacks playing Beethoven/Mahler/Hayden in symphonies ?

Any idea that restricts basically anything to a 'race' is, pretty much by definition, racist.

But you're probably just a troll trolling, anyway... ;)

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"Yeah, pretty much. Do you resent blacks playing Beethoven/Mahler/Hayden in symphonies ?"

As long as the black person plays the song with the same technique as the very best musician of that particular artform which would probably be either an Asian or a White person.

"But you're probably just a troll trolling, anyway... ;)"

No. I really feel this way. I've been feeling this way for years. Now I'm finally getting it off my chest.

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Yeah, you're Racist.. Have a nice day 😎

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Basketball was invented in 1891 by a white man and it was initially an all white sport. Should it offend me then that it's now dominated by black athletes. I'm Irish. If a black musician wanted to try their hand at Celtic folk songs it wouldn't offend me so long as they were good at it. Cultures are meant to be shared not owned.

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Phil Lynott singing β€˜Whiskey In A Jar’ gets a thumbs up from me πŸ‘

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A black Irishman? Surely we can't have that in the Irish culture.

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I have a photo of me next to his statue in Dublin: -
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Lynott

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I actually never got into the Lizzy. I'm more of a Rory Gallagher/Taste fan.

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I have all their albums and have seen them a few times - great band 🀘🎸

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Racist discrimination prevented blacks from competing in professional sports which explains why it was only white.

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It was invented by a white man intended for white athletes and there for technically a product of white culture. So by the posters own logic it's cultural appropriation that its dominated by black athletes.

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I don't imagine self-examination is a large part of Tina's intellectual repertoire.

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She's not too bright. There's nothing wrong with sharing and partaking in different cultures as long as it's respectful.

I doubt if Tina ever watched Ballroom Dance competitions or she would know it isn't a product of white culture. There are different categories which reflect black, Latin and white cultures. And there have always been black ballroom dancers.

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