I think that usually the first season is the best or one of the best seasons of a show. It still feels fresh, it has a clear concept and very often they feel the need to change things around in the second season (and not always for the better). Sitcoms may be the exception, because comedy is a complicated thing.
But what are shows that significantly improved after the first season?
EDIT: I'm going with a random one. Matlock!
The Leftovers
Billions
Agents of Shield (for a little while)
shareUpstairs, Downstairs. I think many if not most fans find the first season the weakest.
Mission: Impossible. IIRC Season 1 had some good episodes, and Steven Hill is a good actor, but to me Mission: Impossible is not Mission: Impossible without Peter Graves.
Agreed on MI. Here's a funny story you might like.
Right after the first MI movie was released, Peter Graves and Greg Morris were interviewed on some talk show. I've long since forgotten the show's title or the host's name, but he asked them what they thought of the movie. Graves answered first. He spoke for about a minute, saying that it was quite different from the television show, fans of the show might have mixed reactions to it, et cetera. What he was really doing was saying that he personally disliked the movie but being as diplomatic about it as he could.
Then the host asked Morris what he thought of the movie. Without hesitation he replied, "I thought it sucked."
Around the same time I remember Greg Morris and Peter Lupus being interviewed and Morris saying he did not like it. Lupus seemed more positive. I never cared for it. It completely undermined the character of Mr. Phelps. I’ve never been interested in seeing the sequels except maybe to see Brad Bird’s work.
shareI saw the movie but remember absolutely nothing about it, which I guess means it didn't impress me. I've never bothered with the sequels.
shareI also remember an interview with Graves and Morris, it may be the one you are referring to. I can't find it on YouTube or elsewhere. I don't specifically recall the "it sucked" comment, but I do remember (a rather old an unwell looking) Morris saying he was insulted by it, and Graves smiling and (affectionately) telling Morris to take it easy, or words to that effect.
shareMust have been a different interview. When he said "it sucked" I was quite shocked (into hilarity, not offense) because it was so blunt and direct, especially after Graves's oblique remarks; also because you don't often hear a man of that generation using the word "suck" that way. And IIRC Graves didn't tell Morris to take it easy.
I wish I could remember the name of the show or host. I do remember it was on the FX network, but that's all. Whatever. It's clear neither of them liked the movie.
Star Trek The Next Generation by like a billion times.
shareOh God, yes!
shareToo much Wesley! 🤬
shareThey should have let them execute him on that one planet where he walked on some grass. Would have avoided lots of crappy Trek moments over the next seven years.
shareAny episode that focused on kids was boring. It was a stupid idea to include kids on the Enterprise...just like men in mini-skirts!
shareWhen Picard was critically injured in the cave and Wesley made that sappy speech about how much Picard meant to him, I actually shouted at the TV for Picard to die just so Wesley would shut up. "Final Mission" IIRC.
shareHis best moments: https://youtu.be/d3Y6SUh8saQ
shareWow, I don't remember him getting stabbed through his back. Any idea what episode that was?
shareHide and Q, Riker gets Q powers.
https://youtu.be/wBETmdKvuCw
Ah, that explains why I didn't remember it; I generally skip most of the first season's episodes. Thanks.
shareLol!
shareOne episode I particularly like is The First Duty, which should have been titled Wesley Fucks Up.
shareAgreed. Even the uniforms got better after the first season.
I'll never forget a line uttered by Riker in the first season, to the effect that they no longer "enslave" animals for food. Thankfully the series toned down the political correctness a little. Riker got better when he grew a beard. Also, Troi doing her thing of saying she detects "tension" on the ship when it is about to be blown to smithereens.
https://miro.medium.com/max/1100/1*[email protected]
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ad/d2/46/add246d78299c545ee5cb38be608a55e.jpg
> I'll never forget a line uttered by Riker in the first season, to the effect that they no longer "enslave" animals for food.
That line made me run to the kitchen and grab a ham sandwich.
Another cringeworthy moment for me was near the end of the episode "The Neutral Zone." If you'll recall, it was the one where three cryogenically frozen 20th century people were discovered and thawed out. Picard said something to the effect that there was absolutely nothing he found appealing about them. OK, maybe that was justified with respect to the partying musician and the businessman, although I thought still questionable. But the housewife was simply someone who had, without her consent, suddenly gone on a one way trip to a strange place, away from all of her friends and loved ones, never to return, and her reactions were quite understandable and not repugnant in any way. Essentially Picard was showing contempt for 20th century people ... well, that's bloody lovely, a television show where the lead character views the audience with contempt.
The only thing I recall about that episode right now is the (I think businessman--the overweight guy) referring to beer as "suds," he may have even said "soak up some suds." Good episode IIRC. Doesn't surprise me about the contempt, I'd forgotten about that.
The pie-in-the-sky future, where we don't even require money, can be traced, I think, to none other than Gene Roddenberry. He was overly idealistic.
The overweight guy was the musician. During his twentieth century life he had partaken of mass quantities of every known intoxicant. Now that Crusher had repaired all his vital organs he was going to do it all over again.
The idea of no money and no greed always struck me as stupid. Greed is one of the seven classic sins for good reason; it's basic to human nature. No greed limits characterization. Put it this way. Remember the original series episode, Mudd's Women? OK, no greed means no Harry Mudds in TNG. But what about those dilithium miners? They weren't doing anything corrupt of evil, just working a very crappy job on the outskirts of civilization in order to get rich. Well, no greed means no people like them in TNG either.
Roddenberry was a very unsavory character who ripped off just about everyone he ever worked with. A joke that went around in Hollywood was, "Why did they shoot Gene Roddenberry's ashes up into space? Because if they buried him on Earth the cemetery would be clogged with people lined up to piss on his grave." Harlan Ellison's teleplay for the episode "The City On The Edge Of Forever" was extensively rewritten by others before shooting, so much that he wanted to disown it. He later published the original teleplay as a book. I recommend it, not just for the script. His introduction, in which he sets the record straight about Roddenberry, is scathingly hilarious and by itself is well worth the price of the book.
I read that Roddenberry was fond of taking all the credit for Star Trek, when many others were involved such as Gene Coon. But I didn't know it was that bad!
shareI just found and read this
https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/09/star-trek-gene-roddenberry-was-misogynistic-hack/
Interesting article. I'd just like to make one correction. It says, "[Roddenberry] was surprised by the grassroots campaigns that saved Star Trek from cancellation after its first and second seasons." No, he wasn't surprised by them; he organized them.
A few other tidbits about GR:
* He wrote lyrics for the original series theme song, just so he could take half of Alexander Courage's royalties. (The lyrics were never used, and with good reason. They were awful.)
* He hired David Gerrold (writer of The Trouble With Tribhles) to write the bible for the Phase Two series, for $70,000. Gerrold had to sue him to get paid.
* Grace Lee Whitney alleged that she was raped by one of the executives from Star Trek. She never named the attacker, but given the personalities and the circumstances she described, it's difficult to imagine she meant anyone other than Roddenberry.
It's been a while since I looked at this stuff; I'm sure I can recall some others given time.
I enjoy Ellison's work. Was the original The City on the Edge of Forever teleplay published under the same name? I'd like to read that. Harlan was a bitter, angry man but he sure could write.
I agree that TNG belongs on this list but I find many of the episodes I liked from later seasons suffer on rewatch. Same but times 2 for DS9.
> Was the original The City on the Edge of Forever teleplay published under the same name? I'd like to read that.
Here it is -- https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J90ET90/
I bought the printed version, lost it, and later got the Kindle version. I recommend you get the printed version; the conversion to Kindle format was very badly done.
> Harlan was a bitter, angry man but he sure could write.
About fifteen years ago I bought and read the book. Afterward I found that Ellison had a web site where he frequently corresponded with fans. He and a crowd of regulars posted on the forum daily. I dropped in and wrote that I enjoyed the book and that the introduction had me laughing my ass off -- laughing with him. I also said that although I liked the episode as it aired, it had always been obvious to me that it had been damaged by some clumsy rewrites; in particular, Edith Keeler's blather about a glorious utopian future fit in about as smoothly and unobtrusively as a robed Klansman at an NAACP meeting and that the rewriters had probably needed a crowbar to jam it in. I finished by saying that I wanted to let him know that there were people who knew good work that had been mangled when they saw it, even if they didn't know how it had happened. (All of that is close to verbatim from my note to him.)
Ellison responded with a warm and very funny reply. I didn't hang around, but from looking at the other posts it seemed that everyone there got along well and were having fun. I've heard the stories that he could be a terror, but that was my experience with him.
> I agree that TNG belongs on this list but I find many of the episodes I liked from later seasons suffer on rewatch.
Yeah, that's my opinion too; the middle years have the best episodes.
Yeah, I certain that Harlan was not 100% ogre. I know two people who knew him personally. One liked him and the other did not. Both said that he was very cranky and bitter as a sort of default. These exposures were in his twilight years and are anecdotal.
shareSo you're two degrees away from Harlan? I can't say that, as I only "met" the man once, and that was remotely via the Internet. But I was in Stripes with John Candy, who was in JFK with Kevin Bacon.
There's an annual six week long workshop in Michagan for aspiring SF/fantasy writers, called Clarion. Ellison was there several times as an instructor. He was notorious for being very direct in his critiques of students' works, sometimes brutally so. From what I understand, about half the students came away loving him -- "he always pushed me to never be satisfied, always try to do better, and he made me better than I ever thought I could be," that sort of thing. The other half hated his guts.
Funny item from that book's introduction, which I had forgotten about until this thread got me to read it again. When he wrote it in 1995, he all but swore in that intro that he'd never use a computer and never get on the Internet. Ten years later, there he was, with his own domain, chatting away happily with his fans.
I think you'll like the book. It's not just the teleplay. He includes both his treatments,[*] the original teleplay, and his revision of the first act which he did at Roddenberry's request, plus several afterwords by some who worked with him in Star Trek.
[*] I don't know if you're familiar with the term in this context, so -- a treatment is the step between pitching a story idea and writing the teleplay. Essentially, a scene by scene description of what the teleplay will be, should the writer be hired to do it.
Indeed. Sometimes "He is cranky" only means "He didn't tolerate my bullshit." I have no beef with him. I have enjoyed 80% of his work ... but now it seems that there is more for me to read. Thank you for the heads up.
shareKeeping Up Appearances -- Rose was recast with an actress who was better for the part, and Emmet was added.
shareI have to say though that I feel that Emmet could be too exaggerated in his fear of Hyacinth.
But I must agree with you that the second Rose was funnier.
Yeah, Emmet was over the top at times, but he made up for it by being so wonderfully snarky toward Hyacinth.
I'm not criticizing Shirley Stelfox, I've seen her do good work elsewhere. But Mary Millar was funnier and also sexy as hell. Amazing, considering she was in her late fifties when she did the role.
I actually hated Emmet!
share