No one is mad at those two things no matter how many times they want to push this narraitive.
People are angry that Tolkiens work is being butchered for no other reason than to fit diversity quotas.
Learn what is happening properly before disparaging an enitre continent of people.
In tolkiens work there are no black elves. You want them go make your own fantasy world and leave his alone.
No, Tolkien's legendarium is in fact not real life; it is an imagined, mythical past for England, which is why there is absolutely no reason why its demographics - particularly those of its non-human inhabitants - should in any way resemble those of modern-day US.
shareNon-human inhabitants are allowed, but blacks aren't? Big yikes, bud.
share"Allowed" has nothing to do with anything.
There weren't any dark-skinned elves or dwarves in Tolkien's fiction, full stop, for the very simple reason stated above; and if someone is going to try and sell me something as an adaptation of the man's works, then I'm going to expect them to give me Tolkien, not "Tolkien, except..."
Black hobbits though, apparently:
https://comicyears.com/tv-shows/black-hobbit/
https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Harfoots
https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Stoors
Also, who gives a shit?
You do, apparently, since you started this thread.
shareThere aren't any black hobbits, they are harfoots who were before hobbits. No one is complaining about them. They are complaining about the black elves and dwarves which don't exist in Tolkiens work. They are complaining about the massive changes to legacy characters to the point they are not even the same character anymore.
But yeh why should it matter. Just watch and consume like a good little drone
Magical rings are allowed but smartphones aren't? YIKES!
shareOOOOhh, I get it. Black people don't belong there.
shareJust because you keep repeating it doesn't make it true you know
shareIf Tolkien didn't write them into his story, do you believe they DO belong there?
share1. Movies and TV shows change thing from the book ALL. THE. TIME. It's not new or rare. It's quite common. It's never bothered me. If you want the book, read the book.
2. I am certainly no Tolkein expert, but remember some brown folk in Return of the King. Those fellers from a far off land who rode those Oliphaunts weren't white guys. I've also been reading up on non-white Hobbits since this "controversy" started. It's really not that serious, boss. This isn't a documentary.
I remember when the Battlestar Galactica remake came out back in 03-04. Starbuck was a woman now and Tigh a white guy; I didn't even realize he was a black guy in the old show. No one cared. No. One. And it was a very popular show that was almost universally said to blow the original out of the water.
1. Sure, it happens all the time. And fans of the book complain about it, all the time. And they are perfectly legitimate complaints.
2. There are dark-skinned men in Middle Earth, like the Easterlings and Haradrim. And some people are described as being a mix of different peoples, like the people of Bree. So Tolkien was very clear on which peoples were homogenous and which were not. And there are important reasons within the universe why such is the case.
3. Battlestar Galactica - I never watched the original series, so I didn't know they changed Starbuck's gender. And having no relationship to the source material, I didn't care. However, fans of the old show did care, and they did complain. And they had every right to do so.
Then write a fantasy world full of multicultural races. Go ahead no one will stop anyone doing that.
Stop appropriating European history, culture and mythology and imprinting your supposed modern race values into it. No one watches Lord of the Rings to be reminded of things happening today.
Being fiction or fantasy is not an argument. It is fantasy based on the very detailed descriptions of a learned scholar. 2 uncredited Star Trek writers couldn't write anything close to that if they tried.
"Stop appropriating European history"
This show isn't history. I see why you are confused.
Well done at purposefully missing out the rest of the sentence so i will add it below for everyone to see.
Stop appropriating European history, culture and mythology and imprinting your supposed modern race values into it. No one watches Lord of the Rings to be reminded of things happening today.
Exactly. And the same people who are smearing every critic who takes issue with this as racist, would be outraged if they took an epic story set in a mythological Mesoamerican or African setting, and filled it with white actors. The cries of "cultural appropriation" would be absolutely deafening.
This is what these tut-tutting lefty critics don't seem to get. We are irritated over two things. The first is the butchering of Tolkien's work to fit modern diversity quotas. And the second is the egregious double standard, where the works of Western civilization somehow belong to the entire world, but the things of the rest of the world are off limits to those of Western descent. So God help you if you aren't Mexican and you open a burrito stand; they'll hound you right out of business. Or wear a cheongsam to your prom, the condemnations will flow like water -- but only from woke lefties living in the West, actual Chinese people couldn't care less, or even take it as a compliment. Take those hoop earings out right now whitey, they're for people of color.
But you better cast enough non-white actors in a mythological epic based primarily on Germanic, Celtic, and Finnish antecedents you damned dirty racist!
They aren't Germanic, Celtic, and Finnish though. This isn't a documentary.
shareThey hell they aren't. Tolkien took the names of twelve of the thirteen dwarves he used in The Hobbit (and Gandalf's name as well) straight out of the Old Norse Völuspá, without alteration. His Sindarin language was based heavily on Welsh. Quenya was based heavily on Finnish. Tolkien describes Gandalf as "an Odinic wanderer." You don't get much more Germanic. Tolkien lifted many thematic elements from the Finnish Kalevala. And he appears to have been motivated in part to write literally everything because he was frankly envious that the Finns had, in the Kalevala, a national mythology. And he wanted to create one for England. This is not supposition; Tolkien wrote of this himself.
We know what Tolkien's purpose in creating his entire Middle-Earth universe was, and I think we can say with 100% certainty that it wasn't to come up with something that reflects early 21st century, woke diversity quotas. No, this is not a documentary, but it is a man's life's work, and it deserves to be treated with respect for what the creator always meant it to be. Back when Tolkien was alive, and the film rights were for sale, he explicitly wanted them not to go to Disney, because he feared the work would be corrupted and cheapened the way Disney had done with other source material (they eventually went to United Artists) so we know Tolkien was protective of his work, and wanted it respected for what he intended the material to be.
And you evade one of my key points: you would not be okay with seeing this done in reverse to a property based on non-Western source material.
Wonderfully said.
shareThis isn't a documentary
You can't call someone a hypocrite based on something you think they might do, you dink. LOL!
shareyou can't call someone a hypocrite based on something you think they might do
Now you're predicting my opinions based on people on Twitter?
shareAre you asking me or telling me. Putting a questin mark at the end of a sentence doesn't automatically make it a question.
You are defending the use of having black characters in a show thats adapted from work that doesn't include black people and basically telling other people it isn't an issue and should just be ignored, whats the problem type thing. See it all the time.
Fine you are entitled to that opinion, doesn't make you right though. In fact you are actually wrong.
I am extrapolating based on that information that you would be the type of person that would scream racism if the roles were reversed and this series was adapted from African culture and mythology.
Am i wrong? The odds are in my favour. This is taken from countless times these events play out over and over again with every movie, tv show that is released.
1 - Black to white = racist
2 - White to black = progressive
These rules haven't changed in years and don't see any reason for them to change now. So I stand by what i said. Anyone who agrees in those 2 statements is a hypocrite.
"Anyone who agrees in those 2 statements is a hypocrite."
I never said either one of those things though....
YOu also have not stated that he is wrong about you and what you believe. And if you did, no one would believe you.
share"And if you did, no one would believe you."
You think this helps your case?
Yes. You are playing silly games, probably because you fear if you deny his accusation, people while at best, laugh at you and more likely laugh at you and post examples of you doing exacty what he said.
shareMaking assumptions here also. Funny that's what you do huh?
shareYes. I do. Almost always right too. Especially when i make assumptions about lefties.
shareYou just admitted you make assumptions lol. Good I'm glad that's on public display. It shows you have no point to make and are an ignorant fool.
shareGood grief. YOu really think that was a big victory for you? Sad and weak.
shareThis idiot is agreeing with another idiot who said he read some things NO ONE INVOLVED IN THIS CONVERSATION said on Twitter, therfore it's fair to assume that is how I feel. How do you have a conversation with that level of stupidity?
shareIt is rather sad people this pathetic exist. Man oh man what a world we live in. He can not handle someone disagreeing so they make up assumptions.
shareWhat case is he trying to help. He was responding to you responding to my post.
Which you haven't actually yet refuted.
I find on average people who say things like "it is only fantasy", "it is only fiction" or yours "this isn't a documntary" are the same people who scream whitewashing or racism when the rules are reversed. You don't help your cause by saying stupid things like "this isn't a documentary".
It doesn't have to be. Tolkien created his world the exact way he wanted. He didn't write a book, he created an entire world. That world had pre defined races, colours, religions, people and locations described in detail. That detail is one of the reasons people get turned off by his work because it can at times be a hard read.
You can dislike it, you can disagree with it that is your right and i support your right to do that. But no one and I do mean no one has the right to alter his work for there own benefit. I do hate repeating myself but if they wanted a game of thrones ripoff then the should have done that but that involves actual work. They just want to run off the LOTR name and rip it up and hope there are more happy seal clappers than fans complaining. Personally I don't think there will be. The trailers are getting hammered and isn't by a minority.
"What case is he trying to help. He was responding to you responding to my post."
I would say you're playing dumb, but you're the guy who thinks I believe something because someone whose not me said something on Twitter. The "logic" behind your argument is bad even for this site.
But you haven't yet refuted it and at current rate doesn't look like you will.
If black panther had a tribe of white men would you say its ok it is only fanatsy/fiction or would you scream whitewashing and racism. It is a very simple question. Personally i'm not really bothered.
Media and others generalise when talking about fans that we are all racist trolls living in our mums basements at the very sight of a black man even though I have stated no racist terms or slurs so no different when the tables have turned. I can generalise as well.
You want me to refute something I not only never said, but you said I MIGHT say based off of what randos on.....Twitter said. This is a normal thought process to you. I can't rationalize with that.
shareWell said.
shareWe're back to the bad old days where people want Hoodits to stay on their side of the Shire
shareI think I'm just more annoyed at the fact that by the time the Third Age hits, all of the darker skinned races disappear, starting with the Battle of the Last Alliance to Smeagol finding the One Ring to Bilbo picking up the One Ring to Frodo beginning his quest.
How is that supposed to be explained? We know that tanned races are in the east and south of Middle Earth, and some of them even show up for the Battle of Pelennor fields, but what happened to the Black Elves, Black Numenorians, Black Dwarves, and Black Hobbits?
No one is redoing Peter Jackson's movies, which are extremely close to the written works of J R R Tolkien. (Minus that pesky Undying Army Green Soap Bubble Bath at Pelennor Fields *sigh) Amazon's Second Age has taken 21st century liberties that some of which are not a part of Tolkien's written works OTHER than the people of the east and the south of Middle Earth and this needs to be expanded upon.
I don’t have a problem with a black hobbit, but I am somewhat disturbed that the only thing he says in the show is “Whatchu tawkin’ bout, Witch-King?!”
shareYes.
shareNot "people".
A few loudmouthed assholes.