This covers most of the tweets and Reddit rumors. From Mon.
https://www.looper.com/143953/another-x-men-dark-phoenix-test-screening-bombs/
FOX appears to be blowing it. I think it's time to let Marvel-Disney run with this one...far too important of a story-line to (finally) get right. The characters are going to be Marvel's moving forward anyway. Along with FF...thank God!
shareThey've put too much money into it to scrap it and start over. Keep in mind these profits will go to FOX and not Disney so thats just not an option. When the acquisition is finalized, Disney will most likely recast everything.
Keep in mind that its really not Disney or Marvel that makes the MCU work. Its Kevin Feige. He knows his role and he knows how to make it work. Simon Kinberg is a writer/producer who caught the directing bug. He needs to stick with what he's good at and focus on finding other people who are actually talented enough to direct. You don't see Kevin Feige trying to direct Marvel movies.
Fair enough...but this disaster 'Dark Phoenix' should be sent direct to video and save them some embarrassment and lo$$es. Feige/Marvel will resurrect it in 10 years and make billions.
share'Dark Phoenix' should be sent direct to video and save them some embarrassment and lo$$es.
If you can’t see it coming then you are living in denial.
There is no hype for this whatsoever.
People are already looking forward to Spider-Man FFH.
In a summer full of blockbusters, they should’ve held this one until mid-September.
Is hype the all-and-end-all of a movie's worth? "Black Panther" was overhyped and it was merely decent; "Infinity War" was hyped as the greatest superhero film ever, but was overstuffed with characters and relatively dull, although it had a moving ending.
I suggest waiting to actually view the movie before denouncing it.
Lol if you honestly think this one will come even remotely close to the box office numbers as those two movies.
shareI'm not talking about box office numbers, but rather the film's intrinsic value to the individual viewer, which no one will know until they actually see it. "Watchmen" didn't do so well at the box office, but it's easily one of the best superhero flicks ever.
Director/writer Simon Kinberg wrote & produced "Days of Future Past" & "Apocalypse." This along with the great Phoenix story, the proven cast -- including Sophie Turner as Phoenix -- almost guarantees that "Dark Phoenix" will be a worthwhile X-Men flick. The only questionable element is that Kinberg doesn't have much experience directing, but he's worked with the best, so we'll see.
Don't take this in the wrong spirit because it's just a general statement and not a criticism of you personally; it's merely something relevant to think about:
Popularity at the box office is very important for people who's opinion of an artistic work needs validated by others.share
In what sense is Watchmen one of the best superhero movies of all time? It's true that Box Office is not everything. Suicide Squad had a good box office, but terrible reviews, terrible user scores.
Watchmen has a 65% on RT, a B cinemascore(the same score as Green Lantern), a 54 on Meta critic. The script was clunky, the acting bad and it was Directed by Zack Snyder. The only above average metric is the IMDB rating which is at 7.6. Still nowhere near "one of the best". I can only assume that this was back in the days when it was easier for fanboys to fix IMDB scores. The only people who seem to like the film are fanboys of the Graphic Novel. Since no one else likes it, it kind of suggests that the ffanboys are watching it with blinders on, and it's actually just a crap film.
I'm not a fan of the Graphic Novel. I owned it in the early 2000s (because it was given to me as a gift), but never read it and ended up giving it away. So I guess I don't fall under the description "fanboy."
However, I'm a huge fan of the movie and so are a couple of respected friends of mine, one in the comic business. In fact, "Watchmen" is my favorite superhero flick. It's the "Apocalypse Now" of superhero films, as far as I'm concerned.
When it comes down to it, the only opinion that counts is the individual's opinion. So everything you say about RT, Meta critic, etc. is irrelevant (to me). But I appreciate your input.
If you don't care about anyone else's opinion, why are you on a moviechat forum?
shareNice deviate-from-the-point tactic.
The issue is that you think opinions about movies all revolve around popularity at the box office and ratings, which is perfectly fine if that's what you choose.
I'm more interested in insights & discussions on themes and personal entertainment value. In other words, mining a film -- a piece of art -- for its gems.
How am I deviating from the point? According to you, only your own opinion matters, the box office doesn't matter, the critics don't matter, the opinion of the audience doesn't matter, the terrible test screening don't matter, my opinion doesn't matter. So why are we talking? Because you think an X-men film is going to be a cult artfilm masterpiece?
L.O.L.
You seem to like putting words into other people's mouths.
You asked me in what sense do I consider "Watchmen" one of the best superhero flicks, and I honestly answered you. To which you diverted to questioning my presence on this forum. I’m here because I like movies and enjoy discussing them. But I’m not focused on box office figures and supposed popularity. I say “supposed” because there are many reasons for a film’s success or lack thereof. Was it well promoted? Was it promoted accurately? Did it have a wide release or is it an indie? Did it reach its target audience? How big is that audience? Etc.
According to you, only your own opinion matters
I’m talking box office, which is the only objective and quantifiable way to judge a films success.
shareAnd yet you judge it as embarrassing before it even reaches the box office.
shareThe box office returns will seal it’s fate as “embarrassing”
shareBut, even if it flopped at the box office, that wouldn't mean it's intrinsically "embarrassing." It would just mean that it didn't make satisfactory returns, which could be attributed to weak promotion or whatever.
Why are you so gung-ho about denouncing & castigating a film before it's even released and you still have yet to view it? It's very curious.
The promotion has been anything but weak in the past couple of months.
shareGood.
shareI think this looks mediocre and frankly I didn't want to see the Dark Phoenix again. I wanted the good one about the cosmic force protecting the universe from the evil Emperor DeKen of the Shiar Empire who wants to use the M'Kran Crystal to conquer the universe. But instead we're once again getting Jean Grey going evil. As if it wasn't already done in X-Men 3.
shareIt was a monumental storyline in the X-Men comics and everyone can relate to it due to the universal struggle between spirit & flesh within, plus they have a better actress playing Jean IMHO (I was never keen on Famke).
If they can do it superior to "X-Men 3" I'm good with it. We'll see.
I prefer the Good Phoenix. Frankly I don't agree with her being a better actress. Also we've only had one movie with her so it won't have much of an impact. Should've done something different.
shareI didn't mean better actress in the sense of technical acting, just that Sophie's an all-around superior choice to play the role IMHO. Film is a visual medium and Sophie can hold my attention; Famke can't.
As you know, "X-Men 3" half-axed the Dark Phoenix saga because it had many other things going on, so a film focusing more on that particular storyline is fitting.
By the way, when you said:
I’m talking box office, which is the only objective and quantifiable way to judge a films success.
Only in financial terms.
shareQuick, head for the bunker!
shareIt’s partially bullshit. Read this thread.
http://imdb2.freeforums.net/thread/151404/another-dark-phoenix-screening-bombs
This article describes the reshoots, changing the final location from space to a train. Director Kinberg and actress Turner quoted.
Dark Phoenix will bring the X-Men saga to an epic close
https://ew.com/movies/2019/04/26/dark-phoenix-summer-movie-preview/
Moving the location from SPACE to a train?! Talk about dulling the shit out of something larger than life like the X-Men.
shareLooks like the early warnings were on point.
shareUnpopular opinion incoming:
The original Dark Phoenix story was not great. I was reading those Xmen comics straight off the rack in 7-11. Xmen was a good comic in those day. Clairmont & Byrne put out great stuff. I personally attribute the best of it to Byrne. Once the two parted and did their own things, Clairmont's quality suffered and Byrne's excelled. Anyhow, the Dark Phoenix situation was an interesting development. It was a grand and different approach to comic book standards. But it was only interesting in context of the years of story behind it. The DP story itself was a bit bland. It had an impact on readers because of the emotional impact the development had on the characters. Key word is "development." It isn't a saga in and of itself. It was the fate of one of the characters that they skillfully foreshadowed over time.
So in the scope of many years of the comic book, it was cool. But the details of the specific event were brief and plot-light. {Space entity takes over powerful psychic. She becomes all powerful. Destroys Skrull homeworld and others. Gets control back. Big space trial. Suicide.} A few cool moments but a boring read to be honest. It has been skating on the emotional impact it earned from its rich history instead of its own merits. Praised so much that they think it would make a good movie. It was never going to be a good movie. The source material is secretly weak.
Many other Xmen story lines were much better plot-wise.