MovieChat Forums > Avengers: Endgame (2019) Discussion > Actually Underwhelming (*Spoilers*)

Actually Underwhelming (Spoilers)

posted 5 years ago by alanparsons (543)
31 replies | jump to latest

They squeezed in too much material in this one movie. Things weren't given the time they needed for their impact to be felt. Especially the end felt rushed. HUGE MEGA BATTLE. Now all of a sudden we're at a funeral. Whaaatt? Did they edit that for time or what? Jeez. Also all the time traveling bits where people were reconciling with their pasts felt rushed.

Thor was an annoying chump for most of the movie. My favorite character was reduced to a fat, slobbering, sobbing wimp for 95% of the movie.

Banner didn't really hulk out. I was waiting to see the Hulk go toe to toe round two with Thanos.

Rogers all of a sudden having the hammer didn't feel quite right. Just one 5 second scene of him reaching for the hammer would have made sense. All of a sudden out of nowhere the hammer just flies to him and he starts fighting with it. Cool concept, just poorly executed.

That "we have vaginas" scene at the end battle with all the women characters was such nauseating feminist pandering nonsense and totally distracted from the pacing of the big fight.

Too many of the jokes fell flat. Something about the pacing felt odd in the humor. I remember quite a few time someone cracked a joke and the entire theater was absolutely silent. Other times the jokes did work, so weird.

This last one just comes with the territory and I understand it would have been too corny if they fixed EVERYTHING. But it felt like there were too many unsatisfying / unresolved endings. Black Widow and Vision still gone. I understand why but it just stinks. Quill and Gamorra are basically not a thing anymore. Falcon becomes the new Captain America instead of Bucky. Bucky actually has superhuman qualities and knows Steve better than anyone - he's clearly the best to take on the Captain america mantle. Hulk's arm is all messed up. And Tony leaving behind his daughter OUCH OUCH OUCH that one just hurts. Too many bad endings for me to feel this was a truly successful movie.

Also some people I don't recall seeing in the end: Fury, Pym, Loki? Were they anywhere?

This movie was entertaining, but left me a little disappointed to be honest.

[–] NotoriousRio (12927) 5 years ago

Great post, I pretty much agree with it all, Fury and Pym were at the funeral in a blink and you'll miss it scene.

[–] WhereIsRent (1031) 5 years ago

The thing is though why wouldn’t Thor stop caring and let himself go? He lost all his family and when faced with the opportunity to kill Thanos he didn’t go for the head and that rips him up inside. Thor wielded a Thanos killing weapon and was more interested in savouring the moment and gloating ‘I told you for that you die’ than actually ensuring he’d got a killing blow.

If there had been no deaths the movie would have felt hollow. People are always ripping on these movies for not having the balls to kill major characters and yet we have Nat, Vision and Iron Man dead and we’re complaining because they’re staying dead? No victory without sacrifice.

Hulk’s arm will probably heal by the next movie. I agree, a brief fight with Thanos was needed though, Banner claimed he had the brains and the brawn best of both so let’s see more Hulk kicking ass.

The movie got huge laughs at the midnight screening I was in, but obviously that’s full of the fans. I thought it was very well paced for a 3 hour movie, obviously there was a lot to cover but it did it well whilst maintaining the urgency of getting the stones and keeping it entertaining. It was more a ‘The Dark Knight Rises’ kind of pace rather than a ‘Return of the King’ one.

Endings are always difficult to pull off but this is definitely one of the better ones I’ve seen for a franchise so I was pleasantly surprised.

[–] Juschill (793) 5 years ago

Loki died in Infinity War. He wasn’t disappeared.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

He took off with the tesseract, didn't he?

[–] FilmBuff (6822) 5 years ago

The Loki who took off with the tesseract did so in an alternate timeline. It's a bit tricky to wrap one's head around it, but basically anytime someone uses the quantum realm to travel back in time, the changes they make cause a split timeline. So, when that person returns to their own future, nothing has changed. You can't change your own past. Two realities now exist-- in one, things happened exactly as they did in Avengers, Infinity War, Endgame, basically the story we've been watching. In a separate reality, Loki escaped with the tesseract at the end of Avengers. We don't know what happened next in that reality.

Bottom line, Loki is still dead in the timeline we have been following.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

So just typical Marvel alternative timelines, same as in the comics. BS of course, as they still manage to use the stones that did not exist in their timeline anymore to change the future.

[–] Xboxaddict (57) 5 years ago

Great post, agree 100%

No surprise with the feminist pandering given it's a Disney production. It was ridiculous seeing Pepper Potts in a suit, suddenly becoming a badass, who kicks ass and takes down monsters. And sadly, she had more action on screen than Hulk, who was there for just comedy relief :(

[–] JigsawDude (173) 5 years ago

I personally had no issues with Pepper being in the Rescue armour. She even used a repulser in Iron Man 3 so that was clearly forshadowed ahead of time. Plus, how many years has it been since Iron Man 3 (in the MCU continuity)? Like almost 10 years? So even though Pepper hasn't done much since that moment in Iron Man 3, anything could have happened off screen during all that time including her preparing to help Tony in his time of need.

However, I did find the whole female team up thing to be a bit too on the nose (though in the context of the movie being an event and a culmination of 11 years of the MCU, I thought it was neat to see at least once). I know that most of the actresses DO want an all Female Avengers team (A-Force) but I just don't think it's needed. All of the Avenger films have a mixed team of Men and Women, not to mention that there are plenty of Female characters in the solo films even if they don't get their own movies so what would the purpose be to segregate the Men and Women and have their own teams? It's counter productive and comes across as pandering and kind of sexist.

Perhaps it would be alright for the Women in the MCU to get more time to shine, their own films/storylines and so forth but to give them their own Avengers film just logically doesn't make sense unless all of the Men get like erased from history or something by Kang The Conquerer.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

"They squeezed in too much material in this one movie..."

I agree. The whole movie felt a little cobbled together and rushed as hell. If planned well I would've liked Endgame to be a two parter.

"Thor was an annoying chump for most of the movie..."

Agreed. I personally feel that Thor has been mismanaged from the very beginning with too much humour that ultimately turned him into a joke character. Alas the Russos just went along the path set by the atrocious Ragnarok and managed to completely destroy what was left of him.

"Banner didn't really hulk out..."

He didn't, did he? The whole best of both fell totally flat on its face and Hulk turned into another cemedy relief figure in a movie already filled with comedy relief figures.

"Rogers all of a sudden having the hammer didn't feel quite right..."

I disagree on this one. I think it was cool that finally Rogers was deemed worthy to lift Mjollnir. BUT. In Ragnarok they clearly explained that the hammer just helped Thor to focus his own power and that he was the God of Thunder, not the God of Hammers, so how is Steve able to shoot lightnings?

"That "we have vaginas" scene..."

Yep, I facepalmed at that. Totally hamfisted and unnecessary.

"Too many of the jokes fell flat..."

Too many jokes period. The "I'm inevitable" gag ruined the climax.

"But it felt like there were too many unsatisfying...".

I disagree on this one too. Some characters are really dead and I'm glad they didn't reverse every single death. If you don't want characters to stay dead, don't even go there. The fake deaths are one of the reasons why I stopped reading comics many, many yars ago.

"Also some people I don't recall seeing in the end: Fury, Pym, Loki?"

Fury was behind Captain Marvel. Hank Pym was with Janet, Hope and Scott and Loki is dead (I know, this movie didn't even try to explain the time travel). The character that was stragely missing at the funeral was Maria Hill.

[–] WhereIsRent (1031) 5 years ago

Maria Hill is there, just before we see Captain Marvel and then lastly Fury.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Oh, I didn't notice here, where was she?

[–] WhereIsRent (1031) 5 years ago

She's stood right at the back next to the stairs to the house. General Ross is stood near her. The camera then pans across to Captain Marvel on the stairs and then Fury at the top of the stairs. You'll see on a rewatch I'm sure.

[–] faqbaby (53) 5 years ago

in thor 1 odin states that anyone who is able to lift the hammer shall have the powers of thor

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

That's the problem with Thor. In Thor he wasn't a god and kinda needed the hammer. In Dark World was a god maybe/maybe not and in Ragnarok was a god who didn't need the hammer. They changed their mind too many times.

[–] AP (5260) 5 years ago

True but Odin specifically has an enchantment in the hammer to transfer power. At that point, it doesn’t matter who is or is not a god.

[–] faqbaby (53) 5 years ago

Thor is a god but not because of his hammer...In thor 1 odin had to take his powers away but odin clearly stated anyone who was able lift shall have the POWERS OF THOR meaning thor already has powers but anyone who can also lift the hammer can also have those powers

[–] AP (5260) 5 years ago

I think Cap has lightning powers due to Odin's enchantment "Whosoever wields this hammer shall possess the powers of Thor".

As for the "I'm inevitable" bit, that wasn't a gag. I'm surprised you thought it was meant to be funny.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

See my previous answer.

I personally didn't laugh, but many others did and that ruined the moment for me. Was it intended as a gag or not? I really don't know anymore with the MCU.

[–] AP (5260) 5 years ago

I didn’t think it was a gag. It was the equivalent of a character trying to fire a gun, only to find it was unloaded. No one laughed at my theater despite it being a very cheerful crowd. If anyone laughed, I would imagine it was a “Ha, the good win” sort of a reaction.

[–] Satan2016 (23853) 5 years ago

I thought "we have vaginas" was a quote, so I googled it. First result was:

Mashable: People are apparently putting garlic inside their vaginas. Here's why you definitely shouldn't.

[–] allseeingi (48) 5 years ago

I'm surprised something more risque wasn't the first result.

[–] allseeingi (48) 5 years ago

I agree with OP on almost everything here.

I remember sitting there about half way thinking "some of these scenes are dragging out unnecessarily long, and too many scenes are ending too quickly. Then at the end I REALLY felt that way. I get it, that's a lot of characters and storylines to tie off in 3 hours, but it feels like some of the time from good scenes was "stolen" by slower, more unnecessary scenes. Either this movies should have been 4 hours long, or we could have had less time of everyone standing around giving semi witty banter. This movie should have been all business. Thanos ruined the universe, time to AVENGE.

YES where the hell was my Hulk / Thanos fight scene???

What they did to Thor was criminal. Sure, have him give up on himself for a little while to show how devastated he is. But the entire movie he was a wasted character. Everybody else picked themselves up and got to action way before the God of Thunder. Not only that, but they never even made him not fat. I was expecting once he donned the hammer he was going to zap back into shape. Or his mother would do some quick magic and zap him back into shape. Or that he is a god and have some super fast metabolism that just a day of exercise would get him back into shape. SOMETHING.

Steve getting the hammer was both awesome and confusing. When he got it, I was like YESSS, and then my brain snapped back into place and I thought "did I miss a scene somewhere"? Why does Steve have the hammer? Did he call to it and I just missed the scene?

Yeah that "girl scene". Wtf was that forced bs?

I also agree, Bucky should have been the new Captain America. He was even standing in the scene off to the side like he was intentionally being snubbed at an awards show.

I'll add one of my own - Tony stark figuring out time travel in like 9 seconds. That's it? No more thought to it? No more navigating concepts and theory? Just, "computer, give me this model, flip it, and tell me if it's real". BOOM time travel. What?

[–] WhereIsRent (1031) 5 years ago

You see the hammer move on the ground and then it moves and flies off, being summoned by Steve. It’s then thrown at Thanos to save Thor from being killed and then goes flying back to Steve which is when we see the reveal that Steve threw the hammer.

Thor was depressed and a drunk. When you’re depressed you probably don’t think that anything you do matters and that you can’t change anything. It’s not until he talks to his mother and he summons Mjolnir that he realises he’s still worthy and he snaps out of it at that point.

When they get the stones he’s fully committed to being the one to reverse the snap with the gauntlet. It’s ultimately decided that Hulk is the strongest and should do it.

Thor has an awesome line as well right before the trio go to face Thanos ‘let’s kill him properly this time.’ He then goes off with the Guardians to look for more of his people, it’s a great continuation of the character.

I could understand being annoyed if this was his last film but clearly both Thor and Hulk aren’t done yet.

Also they did avenge, they killed Thanos in the first 20 minutes but they couldn’t move on that’s the whole point of the movie.

This movie is a time travel heist with a huge battle at the end. It’s a completely different movie to Infinity War and I loved it for it that reason. Without the comedy this movie could have gotten so dark, but come on that’s DC’s thing, we know that’s not Marvel’s thing even in our hero’s darkest moments.

The ‘girl power’ scene was a bit clumsy but it was brief and a nice celebration of the female MCU heroes. This is Pepper’s last film as well, it was good seeing her have a moment.

A fourth Thor film has already been pitched according to Tessa Thompson and Taika Waititi will most likely direct. This movie was always going to be ending the Infinity Saga and the stories of Steve and Tony, everything else was secondary.

[–] allseeingi (48) 5 years ago

Your entire post reads like paid damage control...

The hammer came to Steve too quickly without any indication it was even happening or going to happen.

Thor was "incapacitated" for far too long in this movie. Everyone is very well aware he is "depressed". Everyone else was also depressed in this movie.

I know hulk was decided he was the strongest. I watched the movie. The amazing thing about movies, directors and writers can choose a different path for characters. Like hulk getting another one on one fight AND THEN using the gauntlet after. Or some other configuration of events....

"A bit clumsy" is not the way to describe the "girl power" scene. Forced. Unnecessary. Distracting. Pandering. These are ways to describe it.

>Also they did avenge, they killed Thanos in the first 20 minutes but they couldn’t move on that’s the whole point of the movie.

It's not "avenging" if it was meaningless. I know what "the point" of the movie was. You didn't actually address my main points in anything I said, you just gave some sort of canned "everything is ok" response. I don't normally believe people are paid shills online, but come on, are you a paid shill for this movie doing damage control or what? That last line about the fourth Thor movie plug, you forgot to add when and where we can pre buy our tickets!!! LMAO!

[–] WhereIsRent (1031) 5 years ago

How much indication do you want? It's a fan service reveal moment to get the audience to cheer, it's supposed to be a moment we all probably knew was coming but didn't expect in that exact moment.

Tony wasn't depressed, he even talks about how fortunate he is compared to a lot of other people. Banner seemed at peace. Thor literally shuts himself out from the world and the mention of "Thanos" for him is even too painful. In Infinity War he thought he had nothing left to lose and even his revenge on Thanos didn't take the pain away and it drove him to alcoholism. If Tony had lost Pepper in the snap it might have been the same for him.

Yeah and you didn't like the path they chose and I'm trying to explain to you why I did. Hulk was scared of Thanos after Infinity War, embarrassed by his defeat. If Hulk went toe to toe with Thanos again and got his ass handed to him everyone would complain about how the character was nerfed. If he won easily everyone would complain that Thanos isn't a credible threat anymore and the villain is undermined.

That "girl power" scene is so brief though and there are other people in the audience that would get a kick out of seeing all the female heroes side by side. The whole film is about avenging, it's about responsibility and self-sacrifice and doing "whatever it takes" to win the day. Haha this movie doesn't need damage control, it'll make as much as Infinity War did easily, wish I was a paid shill for Disney though but unfortunately I work in a cinema and it's currently hell with this movie out. Sucks the film disappointed you, I know that feeling, The Last Jedi was the same for me, ruined Luke but that's a different discussion altogether haha.

[–] allseeingi (48) 5 years ago

>How much indication do you want?
What OP suggested is fine....
I personally would have liked to see just a little buildup to it. Like Steve sees the hammer, gets a serious look on his face, grabs it, and lifts it. Give it the significance it deserved. I disagree with you that everyone knew it was coming.

>Tony wasn't depressed
Tony CERTAINLY WAS depressed. He was just able to get over it faster because of his more fortunate circumstances. He lost Peter, and the fight with Thanos that left half the universe wiped out.

Hulk could have had another fight. Simple as that. You claiming that it's impossible for a creative way that could have been introduced is just flat out stupid.

The problem with the girl power scene is no the length of it, it's that it even happened at all. It's just politically charged nonsense inserted into the movie. Why didn't all the black characters have a charging scene? And then all the men? And then all the non earth people? It was just dumb and stuck out like a sore thumb.

I have absolutely no doubt this movie will do well at the box office, and I liked many parts of the movie, but there was too many things that were bad about it that I felt like adding to what OP said because I think he/she is right.

[–] mikeflatley (757) 5 years ago

I’m not plant but whinerz r loserz

[–] TandyMan (10618) 5 years ago

I can't believe how slow and meandering this movie was. It never got started.

[–] Volley (3383) 5 years ago

If you watch Infinity War and Endgame back to back, Endgame's pacing makes much more sense.

If you hadn't seen Infinity War since it was in theaters, then the pacing of Endgame does indeed feel slow, because we (the audience) just want to get to all the action and fight Thanos.

[–] Snoopy828 (507) 5 years ago

Great post sir. I'd also like to add. So Tony reverses the snap at the end and everyone comes back as if nothing had happened. We see Ant Man's daughter is still 5 years older.....so wouldn't Peter Parkers classmates have graduated high school by now? The ones that weren't dusted. Wouldn't they be 5 years older then him?

I was happy to see Cap get a happy ending with Peggy Carter. It was a nice moment for sure. However wouldn't Cap going back and altering the past mess with the timeline? This film made their own rules about time travel, which is fine. But I feel they kind of glossed over most of the important elements of time travel just to suit the plot.

Lastly: Big massive funeral for Tony at the end. Makes sense. Ignore Natasha entirely....WTF was that? I know they had a brief scene where they grieved for her. But I found it unintentionally comedic that they gave one avenger a massive funeral and acted like the other never existed. Good movie overall just not nearly as tight as infinity war.

[–] WhereIsRent (1031) 5 years ago

Yeah it's a bit convenient that the ones dusted who haven't aged five years are all his closest friends like Ned, MJ and Flash.

Also if you think about it too much 3.5 billion people disappearing and then reappearing 5 years later would seriously mess up this planet. People would probably starve cus we won't have been making enough food to feed 7 billion people. Also the people that died in snap related incidents like plane crashes etc aren't coming back. Heck even darker people probably killed themselves after losing family in the snap.

Hulk explains it a little earlier in the movie, something about reversing the snap in the past won't mean the snap is reversed in the present. It's all kinds of messy but I think Cap went back, married Peggy and probably carried on being a hero like preventing Hydra from infiltrating SHIELD (his wife did co-found it after all) and saving Bucky from being tortured for 70 years.

Yep, should have been a funeral for Nat as well as Tony, both original Avengers and both died to win the day. It's like The Last Jedi and having no funeral for Han Solo, just an absolute slap in the face to the character haha.