The joke was just weird. Why are they mocking Christians? Would you mock the prophet Mohammad and offend Muslims? Oh no, they are a "minority", so they cannot be persecuted or bullied. Christians? Fair game! Mock away! Disgraceful.
shareFor what it's worth, I think all of you "magic grandpa in the sky" folk are worthy of ridicule, so that comment didn't bother me a bit.
To your point, however: please explain to me how Christians have been mocked and their faith ridiculed in this country for the last 242 years versus religious minorities and nonbelievers. I'm eager to see your non-existent logic and your complete lack of self-awareness.
I mean, you do realize that CHRISTmas is a public holiday, but Rosh Hashanah and Eid al-Fitr are not, right? That mosques get bombed and synagogues defaced with swastikas but churches remain untouched, yes?
Holy shit, are you clueless.
So ... he's not allowed to be offended that his religion was joked about?
Or it is fair game because of Christmas?
You didn't make a lot of sense.
You also don't understand so I'll try to make it simple.
Christians have been privileged since this country's inception. That's a long time. They have enjoyed having their faith as the default faith (Christmas is publicly observed but other religions' holidays are not). Because it was the default, it was off-limits to criticism, ridicule, or mockery. Now, however, after more than two fucking centuries of religious dominance and privilege, he's offended by a throw-away line uttered by a fictitious character in a comic book movie?
Sure he can be offended. I'm just pointing out what a petulant, infantile, and un-self-aware reaction that is.
So you don't celebrate Christmas - that's fine.
I would have thought it to be against forum rules to bash people's beliefs - but I guess because this person is Christian then it's ok ...
Christmas isn't technically a Christian holiday, though. It's still winter solstice celebration, is months removed from the actual likely birth month of Jesus, contains a bunch of pagan fertility symbolism (hence the solstice celebration), and it celebrates commercialism. It's just there to boost sales, really.
shareSure, Christmas was commandeered by Christians as a way to make what was once pagan into their own thing, which of course then diminishes paganism, but technically, Christmas IS a Christian holiday, with "Christ" in its very name.
Just because IBM created the GUI, doesn't mean Windows is "techincally" IBM's operating system.
Berc's point seemed to go over some heads, I think. America is so drenched in Christianity that we don't even realize how much it affects our culture. When people become irked by that, Christians are quick to cry foul, complain about "oppression". Which is just kind of ironic, since it could be argued that Christian "values" have been oppressing this country for ages. The way we view the rest of the world, the way we think about sex...hell, a movie can show waves of people being slaughtered mercilessly, but its only the shot of the bare breast that pushes it into the R rating. We're a weird people and it seems like a lot of us don't realize it. We can't see the forest through the trees when we're in the thick of it.
Christianity deserves its pot-shots IMO, they need to lighten up and quit taking themselves so seriously.
I do agree, and yes the violence vs. sex thing is one of the nuttier aspects. I guess it comes from all the sexual rules and dangers in the Bible, contrasted against the fact that even Yahweh himself uses threats, extreme violence and genocide for his own agenda.
That literally creates, by necessity, a view that the use of wanton violence is something even a "perfect" being would engage in. It's a scary view.
I think the biggest oppression from Christianity is the fact that it's almost required to be a Christian to be elected to political office in America... And yet for some reason they see themselves as persecuted.
They're very used to wanting things "both ways," and often getting that. The old "they get to have their cake and eat it too." The BIGGEST example of this is how the belief in a divine creator allows for both self-aggrandization and humility: The human is allowed to portray himself as being humble because he bends to the will of the creator, and YET, the human simultaneously elevates himself to a position of grandeur in all of reality with the belief that the creator of all life, and the universe, takes a personal interest in this human and values him above all else.
Humble, and yet proclaiming himself to be more important than the universe. That's a big mind-twist right there.
Hah that's a good point! The way I've looked at it is in regards to how it elevates on amongst their peers, you know? Gives them a little power. Of course, that depends on the individual, but in my extended family, it seems like people don't serve God as much as God serves them...their own interests.
Firstly the ego, as their identity, but also in a way that could allow you to stop a person mid-sentence and explain to them that excuse me, but I find the term "pissed off" a little vulgar. I know the diagnosis of lung cancer has you upset, but "angers me" will suffice.
Seems like there's a line between 'serving a God' vs 'God serving you' and the person who can walk it is alright by me. Even admirable. But most don't seem capable...like there's too much "them" in them, you know? Like I've always wondered if maybe that wasn't the ultimate goal in life...getting rid of the "you" in you. Instead of believing what you want to believe, you believe what's true...like, the search for truth should be paramount, however best you're able to search, anyway.
Looks like I replied to the wrong guy though, preaching to the choir mostly, sounds like =]
Gives them a little power. Of course, that depends on the individual, but in my extended family, it seems like people don't serve God as much as God serves them...their own interests.
Don't you mean 'all religions' deserve it's pot-shots?
Or you are happy to discriminate against Christianity - even though you state that your society is built on it - because it's popular to do so among leftist communities?
Is that like how discrimination against white people is ok, but NEVER for other groups?
For the record I wasn't offended by what was said, at all.
There's almost too much wrong with your reply to even try to respond to it, but here goes. Society being built on Christianity and Christianity being so near-seamlessly integrated with our culture are two different things; its a popular misnomer that our forefathers were hardcore into God. So I see what you're trying to imply there but even if our society were built on a foundation of Christianity, I'd see nothing wrong with taking pot shots.
And taking pot shots and discriminating are two different things.
"Because its popular to do so among leftist communities"? Yeah, see how the persecution complex is so imbedded? Christianity is only being made fun of because its all the rage, huh? From those damned lefties? So its all politically motivated? Pigeon-hole people much?
Christians claim persecution...right up into their persecution of others. Can't discriminate against gay people? Persecuted! I don't discriminate against religion, but if I did, I'd discriminate against Christianity...since you can't just have a personal relationship with Jesus, nah, you've got to try and work your way into governing the rest of us. Do your thing, let others do theirs...then maybe you'll be "persecuted" less.
Otherwise, religion often seems like a permission slip given from a higher power, allowing people to be their worst selves. It's a blight, a plague that can often end up being the answer as to why its followers never ended up asking questions.
The OP claimed they were offended by the joke. They then mentioned other religions where criticism is seen as taboo from a modern western perspective.
You seem to have a serious issue with Christianity ONLY. Are you forced into the religion or something? Very strange.
I live in a secular society where people have the freedom of religious choice (or none at all) and they SHOULD NOT be bashed for it. That is the whole point.
The fact that you think it is OK, because you hate Christians - up to and including the entire history of Christianity? - goes against the very nature of this ideal.
You are actually proving the OP's point entirely...
"I live in a secular society where people have the freedom of religious choice (or none at all) and they SHOULD NOT be bashed for it. That is the whole point."
Well that's fantastic sir, good for you. Congratulations. Myself, I live in a country where the dominant religion is...if they're not ALREADY in government, trying to control the laws and the lives of people, are desperately trying to claw their way in.
Now, say if I were in some part of the Middle East and had the same thing happening there, then I'd probably be pretty shitty towards Islam. But the fact is that I'm not, I'm here in America. And Christians trying to be in the business of telling other people how to live is especially irksome...especially when you're able to see so much stupidity and hypocrisy in the religion.
Jabbing at the religion that most affects me is not discrimination...that's just cause and affect, son.
That these same people are whining about the occasional jab, I can't find that preposterous enough...there are no words. You want to talk about jabs, from my experience, the Christians take enough jabs at the Muslims for the rest of this country and then some. Lol crying about discrimination, give me a fucking break!
You should go to work over the Christmas holidays to prove your point.
shareI'm an atheist, so I've got no dog in this race, but I don't think it's accurate to say Christians have had any privilege over anyone else in this country. Christmas isn't wholly a religious holiday, and it certainly isn't celebrate as one at all here.
That he was offended doesn't strike me as petulant or infantile at all. Somewhat thin-skinned perhaps, but he can't help how he lives his life.
Christians have been privileged since this country's inception. That's a long time. They have enjoyed having their faith as the default faith (Christmas is publicly observed but other religions' holidays are not).
As someone raised Catholic in a country that has a ickle problem with regards to Christian secterism... oh you poor ignorant child. Because oppression - can take many forms and each side need to know when to keep your head down.
Because getting your head kicked in of you are wearing the wrong colour on a Saturday is a possibility where I come from and it is not in the part of the country where 20 years ago you used to get shot for it for it because your brand of Christianity was tied to border politics. Granted it is a lot better than when my folks were my age but it is still there. Because people march down streets in to celebrate history, screw the fact they are going down streets where folk feel intimidated by their presence and not too long ago you used to joke that in a certain town you couldn't have certain colours in street signs.
Yeah, sure being in a default Christian country can feel oppressive even if you are raised Christian. Because you to someone you can be the wrong type of Christian.
So someone getting offended by a regarding a joke good god take their faux faith and go stuff it up there backside and I am a Christian just they might not define me as one.
Does the Book of Mormon, Jesus Christ Superstar, or The Life of Brian not count? Still waiting on "Jihad me at Hello" to come out.
shareI'm an atheist and I think it is fair game for people of any faith to feel offended. They sure don't have a right to be offended but I understand if they are because people made fun of their stupid beliefs of magic grandpa in the sky.
He said he was offended by a Jesus joke. Similar to how a buddhist would be mad at buddha joke or muslim at allah joke or a jew for a yahweh joke or a hindu for a joke etc.
He does bring a fair point that christian belief offending incidents do seem to be brushed aside while islamic/other ones are treated seriously. It's quite unbalanced. It does not matter what happened in history by everyone's ancestors. The current people are not their ancestors who did bad things and cannot be held accountable for the ancestor's sins. So you shouldn't equate them thus.
Anyway, I think religion is a joke and stupid but let them believe what nonsense they want. If they get offended, let them complain. Your attitude towards the poster is childish and frankly shameful
I laughed at the Jesus joke and I've been a Christian for many years. I don\t think they were mocking Christians. It was just a joke, with no offence intended.
shareWell to us who Jesus is our Lord and Master, it wasn't the best line to hear.
shareWhy? There was nothing derogatory on insulting about it. I think you are reading into it too much and seeing something that isn't there.
shareWell to those of us who have actually studied history and not relied on a book of myths, I loved the line. It's amazing that only AFTER the Council of Nicea was Jesus considered the son of God. That was when Emperor Constantine named Mary Magdalene a whore and removed from her the fact she was the real head of the Church that became Christianity. It certainly was not a woman hating group. So for me it was a great line because it was based in fact.
shareJesus was always considered the son of God, as he said so himself, what was in dispute was whether or not he WAS God. The doctrine of the trinity came about. I think that is what you are confused about.
shareI haven't seen the movie yet, so I'm curious -- What was the joke? Just paraphrased, of course.
Thanks.
Not an exact quote, but...
Dr. Strange, Iron Man, and Spider-Man are fighting Starlord, Drax, and Mantis
Dr. Strange begins to realize they may be on the same side.
Dr. Strange: Wait, answer me one question. What master do you serve?
Starlord: Master? What am I supposed to say? Jesus?
Iron Man: Wait, you're from Earth?
Nothing terribly offensive, and I doubt most Christians found it so. It's the OP's prerogative to take offense, but it was pretty funny to the crowd both times I watched the film.
Dr. Strange: [ to Quill] Alright, let me ask you this one time. What Master do you serve?
Quill: What Master do I serve? What am I supposed to say, Jesus?
******************
The problem was the distain in which he replied, as though it was ludicrous to say Jesus.
The humor in the joke is not that it's silly to say Jesus. It's poking fun at the sort of people who go around asking you who your master or savior is as an icebreaker to proselytize.
share The problem was the distain in which he replied, as though it was ludicrous to say Jesus.
^^^
I've got to say upon reading this post entirely and seeing your messages, I was certain you were one of the Religious Trolls ...I was quite shocked when I checked your history and found out they you arent.
Now I'm left with just thinking "what the hell is wrong with you"....You literally found something offensive that Im certain LITERALLY no one else did
it was a joke, no offense pointed at anyone....
This is easily one of ODD posts Ive came across in 8 years on message boards
Theres only 2 possibilities, either you are trolling and are just trying to say something absurd to get a rise out of people...Or you have a weird inferiority complex about God, Jesus and Religion...to try and make something this Pointless into a big deal Is JUST ODD, Literally one of the oddest things I've ever seen
Also, I dont have a horse in the race, I unfortunately do not believe in GOD even though I want to Literally more than anything on earth....I Literally have panic attacks contemplating death as I believe When we DIE there is simply NOTHINGNESS after, just like before we were born, It absolutely Horrifies me.Internal NOTHINGNESS is something I cant comprehend but am certain I'm heading right towards it
that is why I want to believe it God or some kind of afterlife with all my being, because its the answer to my greatest nightmare....I would literally rather spend an eternity in Hell facing the worst torture Imaginable than Face Eternal NOTHINGNESS...but there is just nothing I can do to actually believe in a GOD or an afterlife, no matter how many ways I try in mind to come up with a way it MIGHT be Possible, I cant even remotely believe it.
If I had one wish in Life, It would be to Truly have FAITH...To truly believe in a Religion, To truly believe there is some higher power at work and have absolute FAITH there is something after death....but I cant, and I'm going to live the rest of my life fearing The Horror that I know is coming...Eternal NOTHINGNESS....
the Eternal part is the Uncomprehending part...to try and imagine "Forever"...to try to imagine that in a Billion-trillion years from now, that wont even be .001% of Eternity....trying to imagine the HORROR of Eternity, The Horror of forever NOTHINGNESS literally makes me have panic attacks...
anyways, I have no horse in the race, I just feel this thread and your complaints is absolutely ridiculous
Well it certainly sucks to be you bill, I on the other hand am a strong believer in the existence of a higher power...I've had too many miraculous things happen in my life not to believe, but you bill...I pity you, you're screwed either way, if you are right it's an eternity of nothingness for you but if you're wrong it's eternal damnation for you so good luck to you when it come time for you to make that final journey into the after life...God have mercy on your soul if you're unable to embrace his divine existence.
shareand I'm Jealous of you, It Must be Great to Have Faith like that....as I said, If I had one wish in The world it would be to Truly have Faith...
I'm not one of these Atheists that tries to disprove god or start fights with Believers, I Wish I could Believe, I dont even care if its true or not, No one can 10000% no for sure if there is an afterlife, But YOU have complete faith...I wish I had that, because truth be known, if Your Wrong, Your never going to know....If there isnt an afterlife, If Jesus and everything you believe with all your being IS NOT True....You will never actually know it..Because The very second you die, Its NOTHINGNESS, You'll never even be able to have the thought, "OMG I was wrong".It will be just like falling asleep, The second you fall asleep, Its Nothingness, You dont realize you fell asleep....This world existed either 14 Billion Years before we were born(if you believe in the big bang) or whatever you believe in / whatever the bible tells you...
I heard many times the bible says the earth is 6000 Years old(i dont know if thats what you believe) but for sake of my point I'm going to use it....lets say the earth is 6000 years old...thats means Time was there 6000 years before we were ever born....think how long a year is, 10 years is and then imagine 100 years....that time was going on before we were born, at least 6000(Maybe 14 Billion Years) and we never even noticed it, It was NOTHINGNESS...we could think, or have any thought, we didnt know that we didnt exist....thats whats going to happen if YOU ARE WRONG....You are going to spend your entire life in Peace having absolute faith of an afterlife and the truth is...if YOU ARE WRONG...you never going to have to face it and your never even going to know it, you'll literally never have the thought "wait I believed in God, OMG I was Wrong"
this is why I say...I am jealous of you and agree it Sucks to be me....I wish I could have your faith, I dont even care if it ends up being true or not ever, If I could just truly believe and Have Faith...I would feel So lucky....
I think most die hard Believers look at other people and think its a choice not to believe in god or religion...and I can understand why, there are some hardcore Atheist out there that live to try and Disprove and argue...
but as for me, My absolute deepest regret is that I can not find Faith...no matter how hard I try, think and try to comprehend a "GOD", "Jesus" or "Religion" I can not believe it...
The one thing you got wrong here is...I'm not screwed either way....
as I said early....I would truly rather spend eternity in Hell than face The HORROR of eternal NOTHINGNESS...
at least in Hell, theres an afterlife, I Will be able to have thoughts and feel...
If I'm wrong, and Theres is a GOD or Jesus and he decides that despite me living A perfectly decent and normal life I need to spend eternity in Hell for NOT having Faith...I'll do 2 things..first I'll ask him, "since I was clearly wrong my entire life about YOU and Religion...and I now know that you are in fact the created and created me, Why was I unable to Find Faith despite it being the one thing I want most?"...of course I know this will have no effect, but Its question I really want answered..#2 I would then literally Go to Hell for eternity Grateful that My biggest fear, My worst Nightmare of Eternal NOTHINGNESS has been avoided....
"God have mercy on your soul if you're unable to embrace his divine existence. "
^^^
also why do you say this, this doesnt make sense to me....
According to YOU and everything I've read, The exact reason why I will be sent to hell, Is because I didnt have FAITH and Believe in GOD/Jesus....
why would you say GOD have Mercy on My soul?....
Hes sending me to HELL....how can he have mercy?
are saying you wish he'll spare despite not having FAITH? If so would that be completely unfair to the TRILLIONS he sent to hell for the exact same thing...
It just makes no sense to say "God Have Mercy"....when The exact Sin I'm committing is Not having Faith which is A ONE WAY ticket to Hell...
God cant have Mercy on Me, Hes got to treat me exactly like the TRILLIONS that came before me....
PS, one thing Ive never understood, could you be Happy in Heaven if your child was In Hell suffering brutal torture for eternity...
like for example...what if you had a Child(If you've already had a child that this scenario doesnt apply to you) just play along because it does apply to MILLIONS....
what if you had a child, and being the deeply religious person you are, you raised that child with the same beliefs you had...and for whatever reason you die, go to heaven and then while your child is living the rest of his/her life, she loses faith...not becomes a bad person, not commits any crime...Just literally for whatever reason, doesnt believe any longer "The MUSTS" for getting in to heaven...
could you be happy in heaven knowing your child is suffering eternal torture?
another thing I cant get past is..Every Religion claims they are right and if you dont believe exactly what they say, You will go to hell
I find this impossible, you have literally BILLIONS of people dedicated their entire lives to their Faith.being Good, doing the right things....Yet almost All of them are going to go to hell for it because they picked the wrong religion..how many different religious are there...Literally Hundreds? How many Majors, 15 to 20?
there are BILLIONS of people who are following the exact things their faith demands, Yet They are DOOMED and DAMNED to HELL because there can only be 1 RIGHT religion.
this is simply impossible...If there is a God....and He would damn BILLIONS to Hell for dedicating their entire lives to thier religion and doing nothing and he simply says "Nope you picked the wrong Religious...Its Hell for you"
I cant believe that....
Next...You realize there are situations where Rapists kidnap women, and literally Hold them for Years and decades in a room or under ground...These Women, Get Pregnant and have kids or a kid.....the reality of this scenario is....what happens if the mother doesnt know religion or doesnt believe....and that kid grows up to be 8 or 9 years old never once leaving a room or a basement, and literally has no clue about Religion or what he should believe......what happens if That Kid dies in that room before making it out and learning about Religion
Is God or Jesus going to send that 8 or 9 year old kid to Hell....when he never even knew of religion and never could have learned about God
there are so many things that make FAITH thats Impossible for me
in conclusion....You are LUCKY....I agree it sucks to ME.....Ultimately....I think were Both Heading toward NOTHINGNESS and Will never know who was right, but at least you'll have peace along the way in YOUR FAITH....Its something I'm incredibly jealous of and want more than anything
You have proof of that? You actually know him enough to know he said this verbatim? I'm not confused about anything. The Bible is a book of mythology, not true fact. After the Council of Nicea he was the son of god, not before. And the Church of Christ was founded on the fallen apostle Peter, not Mary Magdalene as it should have been. I'm not confused about anything.
shareJesus did always refer to God as his Father. I'm not sure you can just completely ignore that and say that he was never considered to be the Son of God before the Council of Nicea.
share"Jesus was always considered the son of God, as he said so himself ... "
Depends on which Gospel you're reading. In John's Gospel, there is no doubt. In the other Gospels it gets a bit murky. In Mark's gospel, it's the Messianic Secret.
It's true that it was the Council of Nicea that made it officially the teaching of the Church that Jesus was the son of God and God - that Jesus was both fully God and fully human. However, this was not a brand new idea at the time. There were many different beliefs. Some believed Jesus was just and extraordinary person who found favor with God. Some believed he was God and not human. Some believed he was fully God and fully human. At the Council, the Church leaders discussed this (probably argued) and came together on the belief that Jesus is fully God and fully human. The study of this is called Christology.
I'm not sure it's completely accurate to say that Peter was never the head of the Church and that Mary Magdalene was. It is true that she was never a prostitute and that history has given her a bad rep. She was most likely very highly regarded by her peers and may have even been considered a leader. But that doesn't negate Peter's role entirely.
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You know, I remember that part and I didn't take offense to it. Considering the moment in which it was said, I can imagine someone saying it. I don't think it was meant as an insult and I'm a Christian believer.
Overall, I think Marvel has done an admirable job steering clear of religion and politics in their movies.
Kudos to them for that and I hope they keep doing it.
Dude, you're reading way too much into this.
The one who said the line was Starlord, who was taken from earth as a child. He grew up in the US, a mostly Christian nation, so it's more than reasonable that Jesus would be the one to come to his mind.
It would be absurd for that character to say Mohammad instead of Jesus.
I missed it. What was the “Jesus joke?”
shareDidn't you turn the other cheek?
shareHappy Festivus!
share