MovieChat Forums > Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (2023) Discussion > Why did 'No Time to Die' do almost 800m ...

Why did 'No Time to Die' do almost 800m but 'Dial of Destiny' not even 400?

posted 10 months ago by bozo_500 (12465)
26 replies | jump to latest

Both the 5th movies. Both the finale.

Like Crystal Skull no one was all that fussed on the last/4th Craig film Spectre (which did a huge 880m, like KOTCS did huge 790m in 2008) yet NTTD did 775m to DoD's paltry 375m

Domestic they did similar NTTD 160m, DoD 173m , so the fault obviously lay with overseas (NTTD 600. DoD 202), With the previous films overseas box office Spectre did similar to NTTD 680m, Crystal Skull did 473m in 2008. (so DoD had a huge decrease on KOTCS both overseas and domestic)

And think back to the huge box office of the 80s Indiana Jones trilogy (all grossing over 1b each when adjusted to now) dwarfing any of the box office of the Moore/Dalton Bond films of the time.. (as did Crystal Skull compared to that same years Quantum of Solace 590m)

Its like audiences were 'meh Indiana Jones is old hat now' when really it should've been similar to NTTD..

[–] fc31 (4708) 10 months ago

Maybe NTTD was the second last straw.

But anyway even in NTTD Bond was still a top agent, not a male version of damsel in distress.

I think this movie is just another proof that writing an action movie and then do a gender swap is unlikely to work.

[–] bozo_500 (12465) 10 months ago

There were a few woke elements but not really too much to be a problem and bomb the finale

[–] fc31 (4708) 9 months ago

It wasn't about wokeness, it was about Indy being portrayed as an useless old fart.

Bond was still Bond in NTTD, that is the difference.

[–] Galactus03 (4323) 9 months ago

Oh boo hoo. Why is everyone scared to get old??? That is what this is all about....bunch of pussies.... 😂

[–] FilmBuff (6786) 9 months ago

Gender swap? Did you even watch the movie? Indiana Jones was in charge from start to finish.

[–] Martoto (4410) 9 months ago

More than half the criticisms of the movie are from people who clearly haven't watched it.

[–] FilmBuff (6786) 9 months ago

Definitely seems to be the case. So many people are criticizing things that didn't even happen in the film!

[–] BKB (6816) 9 months ago

Daniel Craig is younger and carries himself better than Harrison Ford at 80, plus James Bond is James Bond..

[–] PaladinNJ (20465) 9 months ago

Sounds right to me.

[–] ebhaynz (3602) 9 months ago

Crystal Skull absolutely did NO FAVORS for Indy 5.

[–] bozo_500 (12465) 9 months ago

Neither did Spectre for NTTD/Craig, yet it overcame it

[–] ebhaynz (3602) 9 months ago

yes but most people know the effort was there, Bond movies are consistent, usually 3 a decade.

Indy was retired in 1989 and should never have been brought back..and when it was it catered to kiddies. That type of betrayal has not been forgotten.

[–] jk90us (5675) 9 months ago

Because it was the last film in a very successful run for Craig.

But Indiana Jones was a desperate cash grab by a studio out of ideas for a franchise that died long ago.

[–] clashwho (746) 9 months ago

Both the fifth movies, but the time frame is much different. It would be like if No Time To Die was released in the year 2048. How well would it do then?

[–] bozo_500 (12465) 9 months ago

good point. now im picturing 80y old Craig hobbling about with his 30y old daughter (no 'Bond girl') for the duration of the movie with her ultimatly saving him from the island before its destroyed with a gun butt to the head and he wake up 3 days later in bed getting visits from long retired Moneypenny and Q (who tells him he cured him of the nanobots as he slept) before 60y old Dr Swann turns up and he hangs up his Walther PPK

[–] sonans (1285) 9 months ago

I just check boxoffice, yes, it's weird. Domestic are the same, overseas are huge difference. It looks like americans are the only country like Indiana Jones.

I'm going to guess, because the subject matter: space race. Beside USA and Russia, most countries doesn't know what is space race. (I haven't seen Indy yet.)

[–] bozo_500 (12465) 9 months ago

Its also done more domestic than Mission Impossible 7 and Fast X , so I guess Indiana Jones has turned into Star Trek (where domestic box office was always decent but overseas didn't care)

[–] e3e34ifj (1384) 9 months ago

1. Too long of a gap between Kingdom and Dial. Should've been released in 2013 or 2014.

2. The gap was made infinitely worse by the fact that Kingdom sucked and most fans hated it. No one wanted to see a 5th movie and no one wanted to wait 15 years for a sequel that would probably be about as bad as Kingdom.

3. It was released at a bad time in a very busy summer, giving it no chance to be a hit.

4. The film premiered at Cannes and it was public knowledge that Dial got bad reviews. So now, months before its release, the entire world knew this movie would be mediocre at best.

5. No Spielberg or Lucas. I'd argue they were about as much a draw for the property as Harrison Ford is. Not even they wanted to be involved with Dial. Was it even an Indiana Jones film at this point?

[–] bozo_500 (12465) 9 months ago

Yeah they should've got it out 5y after Skull but they were never going to get around to it that fast, but ideally once Disney took over it should've been fast tracked and released just after Force Awakens to capitalise on the inevitable HFord/Lucasfilm resurgence/interest so 2016/17 (and be directed by Spielberg, as he didn't drop out until 2020 to do WSS/Fablemans) then it may have had a chance to get near Skulls 800m

[–] xergan (926) 9 months ago

Bond has 25 movies in the series, the character is known to basically everyone (in the western world). People of every age group are exposed to Bond because of an average of a movie each 2.4 years. The movie before was a turd, but the movie before that was a major success. Thus the potential target audience is huge.
Indiana Jones is a hero from the 80s with 3 very succesful movies and then a less favorable (but still succesful follow up) follow up. The movie now got out 15 years after the last one. So the potential target audience is basically only one age group which was lived in the 80s (aka Gen X and early Millennials).

Then the next factor is Covid. Bond was the first major movie to get released after Covid hit theatres, people wanted to get back to normality and James Bond was the perfect known "back to normality" movie out there. So even if it wasnt good, it was nice to be back in a cinema and watch a major release. Similar factors also helped Top Gun to explode at the box office. Just Top Gun explode massive, because it was a really good action movie, while No Time to Die was just a average action movie.
Indy potentially had made better box office if it had released around that time too, but still, it was always crippled by its potential target audience.

[–] bozo_500 (12465) 9 months ago

Interesting points, but I'd argue Indiana Jones is just as recognisable/known throughout the world as Bond (unless I'm wrong and its just bc i don't want to acknowledge/cant get my head around my 'era' of the 80s getting further and further away) .

Yes had it come out just after covid say last summer , might have made abit of a difference (say 500m ww)

[–] xergan (926) 9 months ago

"Movie polling service PostTrak surveyed 1.25 million consumers for 1,002 films and found that 25% of tickets sold over the last seven years were bought by teens and early twenty-somethings (via Indiewire). Those under 25 actually made up about half of sold movie tickets. The other half of tickets belonged to those older than 25, with just 11% of ticket stubs belonging to movie fans over 55."
This is from 2019, but I assume it didn't changed much, as the older you get, your interest shifts (aka life). So basically the biggest spending group never experienced Indiana Jones as relevant. Then lets look whats the age of original fans of Indiana Jones, the ones who watched Part 1 in cinemas. A back then 13 year old one would be now 55 years old. First time viewers of Young Indiana Jones - the last franchise products I would say to attract relevenant new audience numbers - was shown 93, attracting (mostly) boys from say around 8 years. So this group would be now at least 35 years old. Thus the main audience group of Indiana Jones is for me male, 35-55 years old as of today. Also its much more likely this age group spending its cinema budget on family friendly movies instead on a grumpy old man, which is anyway available in no time on streaming. Streaming is I think also one major contributor for that, as this age group is old enough to wait for its release, thats why other blockbuster who might have previously attracted them also fails like Fast X, Mission Impossible etc.