MovieChat Forums > Game of Thrones (2011) Discussion > So is Dany Crazy? Or just an asshole?

So is Dany Crazy? Or just an asshole?

posted 5 years ago by Otter (24464)
34 replies | jump to latest

Or stupid, because the writers can't be arsed to write anything clever any more?

Okay, Tyrion's monologue about her self-righteousness was actually pretty good, and explained why might have less of a grasp of what's a good idea and what isn't, even though she's not actually crazy. Because FYI they've never had her actually be crazy or show any signs of mental illness, the burning of King's Landing wasn't so much crazy as it was stupid. Counterproductive. Inexpedient. Pointless.

The thing is, they really could have made sense of Dany's personality and her actions and state of mind, with a few extra minutes added to seasons 7 and 8. They could have had her confiding insecurity, suspicion of Tyrion and others, or extreme anger to Meissandre and being talked out of doing anything unwise, all in private, which meant that when Meissandre died suddenly the brakes were off. They could have had a scene where Jon, Sansa, and Dany read raven messages from the other Lords of Westers where they express disbelief about a zombie apocalypse in the North, which would have convinced Dany that the citizens of Westeros were ungrateful for her sacrifices and deserved no consideration in return.

And maybe add a little depth to her relationship with Jon, that sort of thing. There really was a mad rush to get the show over with and to hell with fleshing anything out, and really, the DID need to flesh a few things out. Even another hour of show would have helped, if they included the right things. Like maybe explaining why the Dothraki didn't raze what was left of King's Landing after their god-queen died.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Who's Dany? Someone from the history books?

[–] Otter (24464) 5 years ago

Silly me, and here I thought we'd be done with trouble from noobs.

[–] albertmar (93) 5 years ago

Dany is Daenerys. People don't like spelling out her name. I have trouble spelling her full name because of how often online reviews just call her Dany lol.

[–] Volley (3373) 5 years ago

George calls her Dany in the books as well.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Like I said. Someone from the Westeros history books. Do people still believe she is alive or something?

[–] ultravioletx (10216) 5 years ago

It would've been clear if they actually developed it instead of just laying down some foreshadowing and then years later hitting us over the head with it. It would've been even more clear if they didn't kill her off the day after scorching the village.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Really? Seemed to me like Tyrion and Varys were struggling to keep her from annihilating king's landing for much of season 7.

I didn't think it came out of nowhere at all.

[–] ultravioletx (10216) 5 years ago

King's Landing sure. The village... no.

[–] Keelai (32060) 5 years ago

Dany was crazy. She had those crazy eyes too. Crazy people are irrational. She snapped when Meissendre was killed in front of her and went further south when Jon rejected her. And she was getting worst with talk about attacking other cities.

Drogon destroying only the Iron Chair was very symbolic. It was Dany's obsession and in the end it destroyed her.

I thought it was enough explanation to know what was going on. The pacing was better in this and the last episode. The books will flesh out more.

[–] Otter (24464) 5 years ago

Dany was completely sane for seven seasons. Oh, she was an asshole at times, but she'd always make up for being an asshole by doing something like freeing a million slaves or saving Westeros from the zombie apocalypse. But for seven seasons, all her decisions were sane decisions, whether they involved some "greater good" goal or her own self-interest.

And then, poof! She's a fucking idiot who shoots herself in the foot and gets killed for it. Gawd, I HATE season 8.

[–] Keelai (32060) 5 years ago

Dany's story is perfect. A woman who struggles to become a leader who wants to do good, but turns mad and becomes evil. A tragic figure. Jon's actions are similar to Jamie's who stabbed the Mad King to prevent him from mass killing.

I think many people wanted her to stay a heroine, but this story makes more sense for her character and is more interesting.

Even if she had no signs of mental illness in the past, that doesn't mean anything. Psychosis can happen very fast. Many of my high school classmates ended up hospitalized.

[–] Otter (24464) 5 years ago

Take it from someone who has to deal with real-life crazy people on occasion... Danerys wasn't crazy. She never showed any signs of mental illness, no irrationality or delusions and only one mood swing, before or after the invasion of King's Landing. Even this week, her speeches to her minions and her little chat with Jon didn't show any real crazy, just an out of control ego.

And I'm no fan of hers, and didn't want her to stay a heroine. I just require more time than TWO WEEKS to accept a change from world-saving hero to villain. TWO WEEKS.

[–] Scape (504) 5 years ago

You’re right, Otter. I honestly never really liked the “Dani” character, at least show wise. Yes she was vengeful & always came off a bit cold, but she never came off crazy or “mad” enough to have such a quick turn. I have no problem with her going mad, or being killed. Like I said, never was a big fan of her characters scenes. But damn did they rush to this conclusion.

To put it in its simplest way - it came off like the writers didn’t know how they wanted to end it up until they got to the last 3 episodes. Then a “mad” rush to her going crazy.

Further irksome, the writers did have enough time to put more dialog into Season 8 to help explain her turn. With this last season having 82 min episodes, but all the writers seemed to do with that extra time was to have longer scenes of characters roaming around with zero dialog.

It seriously does seem D&D were just burnt out with these characters, and rushed to the end.

[–] Keelai (32060) 5 years ago

Dany had crazy eyes in the last two episodes. Her speech was completely nuts. She was talking about annihilating countless innocent people around the world in order to help save them. Her thinking is no longer rational but she believes it is. Classic case.

The problem is that many people wanted a cliched TV show. Good guys are rewarded and win over bad guys who are severely punished. Stereotyped descent into madness. That's not reality. Bad guys aren't always punished and mental illness can be very fast and subtle.

I had no problem picking up on her illness this season and the personality traits which helped lead her there form episode 1. Great program!

[–] [email protected] (1292) 5 years ago

Dani was not Crazy. For 7 seasons she was sane. But maybe she snapped. I just didnt buy it, and for her to burn innocent children and civilians after the bells rang which symbolized surrendering, was not credible. Personally it let the fans down. For 8 years Dani stood for something else. Then all of a sudden, shes heartless. To innocents. I think the fans didnt mind revenge violence ,for example, towards evil Ramsey, but we all didnt want to see everyone burned to a crisp. I know I didnt.

[–] prometheus1816 (1053) 5 years ago

Or that Grey Worm suddenly sails to Naath without Missandei to go there with him. He, the Unsullied and the rest of the Dothraki should have been going home to Essos to be there when Drogon delivers their Queen to the pyramid and where Kinvara and Quaithe resurrect her.

[–] Otter (24464) 5 years ago

Raise your hand if you think that Grey Worm would let Danerys's murder walk away alive!

Or if you think the Dothraki wouldn't raze King's Landing and rampage through Westeros if their god-queen was murdered!

[–] prometheus1816 (1053) 5 years ago

Grey Worm would never have let that happen. He would have killed both Tyrion for his treason, and Jon for killing her.

The Dothraki would have cleared a swath in Westeros to those who betrayed Dany. But then we all know how effed up this season was. No denying.

[–] Otter (24464) 5 years ago

I really wonder how these decisions get made. They spend all those years writing for fans who'll spend months arguing out the question of why Littlefinger left Sansa with the Boltons, and now they feel free to leave idiotic stuff like this in the scripts.

It's like Michael Bay took over.

[–] prometheus1816 (1053) 5 years ago

I would say it was because D&D didn't have GRRM's books as their guide, but they had an outline from him on where the show had to go after the book material ran out. So they keep up the narrative that Dany is this benevolent freer of slaves and loves all children, only to crash that to the ground with season eight's lack of direction. And what gets me the most is that we waited almost two effing years for this?

I agree about Bay. Both him and D&D are hacks.

[–] Otter (24464) 5 years ago

TWO YEARS to come up with this crap, and then they want us to believe that someone goes from saving the world to becoming an irredeemable villain in TWO WEEKS!!!

As I said before, I think the reason GRRM can't finish the books is that his ideas for the finale suck. If he really wanted to put Bran on the throne and Dany end up as a dragon lunch, then I think I was right.

[–] Atarimaster (442) 5 years ago

She always SAID she wanted to save the world, and people believed her. She believed it herself and still believed it at the end, that was (in my opinion) quite clear from her speech. But her methods in doing it weren’t … well, not what most would refer to as "saving".

She DID obliterate people who were in her way before, but as Tyrion said, those were mostly bad people so nobody really cared.
So maybe, yes, she may have been an asshole all along. I never saw it that way, but … well, she fooled Tyrion, she could’ve fooled me as well.

[–] Scape (504) 5 years ago

Yeah man, we all have this “that was too quick of a turn” feeling, & that’s with having two weeks to let it all sink in...

Just imagine the people who never watched this show who’re going to be binge watching it for the first time. You know how awkward and quick her turn will seem for future binge watchers... It’s like 71 episodes with no real hints of this outcome then - BAM.

[–] winslow (1318) 5 years ago

They will die there from the poisonous butterflies

[–] prometheus1816 (1053) 5 years ago

I'm still hoping they decide not to go there and return to Meereen to Daario and where Drogon took Dany to be resurrected by Kinvara. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[–] TandyMan (10397) 5 years ago

Seemed to me she was just mean and nasty.

[–] brux (14666) 5 years ago

She was insulated from the world and the real people ... I think her for the people schtick, was real for her, but she had no real idea of what the people were, or what they needed? She had to held back at every course from her driving ambition, and things were not going well when her mythos was questioned and she was not so loved in Westeros.

[–] winslow (1318) 5 years ago

She wasn't crazy, she just lost her moral compass. GRRM said a villain is just a hero on the other side. Early in the last season, Cersei tells the lords of the Reach about the things Dany did to gain power before sailing to Westeros, and she made it sound really bad. The scene was built that way because the audience had seen it from Dany's POV. But what she was saying was technically true.

Also the conversation Tyrion had with Jon. She was cheered for liberating cities, that fed into her sense of entitlement.

[–] brux (14666) 5 years ago

Put it today's parlance ... it was a major not-overlookable war crime. She killed almost a million innocent people, and then continued after there were no more Lannisters left by ordering Grey Worm to execute the army.

She may have had her reasons, losing her whole group of support and friends, and then having doubt thrown on Jon by his revelation.

Jon should have never made that revelation, and Tyrion and Sam and even Bran should have had more sense than to think something that John's best friend and his brother said to make him King would influence a whole continent's people?

Denarys either let her emotions get the better of her and just lost it on the innocent people of King's Landing, or worse, she saw that consolidating power and trying to win over the people of Westeros would take so long it was better to terrorize her way to righteousness.

I didn't think the last episodes were so bad, they were par for the course. It was a good fantasy story, that's all. No need for it to try to be more than that.

[–] brux (14666) 5 years ago

She showed signs of out of control ambition and rage ... and bad judgement. The problem was that she had such a weak support structure ... no family left, and what there was was evil. She lived in a fantasy world, and her myth supported that fantasy. With the dragons ... she rode it long and hard, but she did not see the big picture when he went to Westeros. She was cold blooded in wrath and anger, but not cold-blooded in strategic calulation.

[–] Otter (24464) 5 years ago

You know, if she hadn't lost her support structure several times earlier in the series and emerged perfectly rational and stronger for the experience, I might have an easier time accepting that plot twist.

Remember in season 1, when she had to leave everyone she knew except her abusive brother and make a new life among the Dothraki? And remember when her husband and baby died and there was nobody left but a ragtag of freed slaves and a couple of blood-riders? And the time she got stuck totally alone in the desert, and she used it as an opportunity to become god-queen of all Dothrak?

She'd never reacted to losing her support system with rage and bad judgement before.

[–] brux (14666) 5 years ago

I've been thinking about this ... with the understanding that this is
a show of entertainment. I think there was a difference in her past
and the presence.

During her life with her "abusive brother" she developed her ideas
of breaking change and the importance of justice. But then she had
the virtual miracles of surviving burning up, and then emerging with
3 dragons. That would tend to bolster your confidence level ... but
the things in the present where complicated and involved people she
was invested a lot of trust and time in.

So, I think she did lose her support system, because in Westeros, like
in the US government you need supporters to get past all those lords
and laws .... you need love. As she said, Westeros did not love her, so
she erroneously turned to fear.

[–] winslow (1318) 5 years ago

Yeah, she learned from her past. Tyrion said to Jon right before he went up there that she has grown to believe she decides what is good, and then she said the exact thing to Jon. That is how he knew he couldn't support her anymore and had to kill her.