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Is Batman Forever actually worse than Batman & Robin?


This person says so. Among the DC movies, Batman & Robin is ranked #21 while Batman Forever is ranked #30 here:
https://officialfan.proboards.com/thread/599749/hulk-ranks-movie-best-worst

21. Batman & Robin: While it’s famous as the film that killed the ’90s Batman franchise, Batman and Robin is not without its charms. It’s almost the archetypal so-bad-it’s-good movie. Yes, Arnold Schwarzenegger delivers about 600 ice puns in 125 minutes. But who doesn’t love ice puns, especially when delivered with such glee as Arnold spouts out? He’s clearly having fun in the role, and that comes off well. Yes, Uma Thurman is ludicrously sexed up as the villainous Poison Ivy. But who doesn’t love slinking, sultry Uma Thurman? She’s also clearly having a ball as well, and the cheesy performances of the villains are a guilty pleasure delight. Yes, George Clooney is oddly chill as Bruce Wayne. But who doesn’t love a guy who enjoys his life as a giant rubber bat? Yes, some things just don’t work, like Alicia Silverstone’s wooden performance, turning Bane from an interesting mastermind brute in the comics to just a regular brute in the movie, the Bat Credit Card (even more ridiculous than Bat Shark Repellent), nipples on Batman and Robin’s costumes, and an awful tease about the Dynamic Duo possibly breaking up. But, there’s a silly, cheesy charm throughout the movie. Nothing really works, which weirdly makes the whole movie work. And, it’s fascinating to watch the entire presentation of this Batman character as a strange combination of action figure and lust object. It’s like director Joel Schumacher, given a new level of creative control after his terrible Batman Forever made a ton of money, settled on a vision of Batman that would make everyone uncomfortable. He’s still apologizing for the movie today. Yet, in pushing his vision of the character even further out into the realm of campy surreality, the Schumacher of Batman & Robin at least paid homage to some past versions of the character: the defiant silliness of both the ’50s Golden Age comics and the ’60s TV series. That might not be the version of Batman that anyone wanted to see, but it’s something. Call it awful all you want. I never get sick of watching it.

30. Batman Forever: What in the hell were we thinking making this a big hit? This is just a supremely shitty movie. Director Joel Schumacher took Tim Burton’s dark aesthetic and splashed some neon all over it. He did everything he could to make Warner Bros. happy and basically turned this into a movie-long ad for Batman merchandise. Val Kilmer could have been a good Batman, but he apparently didn’t get along with Schumacher and just decided to sleepwalk through the role. He has no chemistry with Nicole Kidman, who, bless her heart, somehow made their romance work through her sheer force of will alone. Chris O’Donnell turns Robin into a teenage angsty brat. And, Bruce Wayne adopts him even though he looks 20. But, the real kicker were the villains. We got not one but TWO actors turning beloved, interesting Batman villains into the Joker. First, there’s Tommy Lee Jones’s terrible take on Two-Face. For one, they ruined the character by having him flip his coin until he gets the result he wants; comics Two-Face always respects the result no matter what. Secondly, while Jones could have done something interesting with the role, he instead hammed it up like a madman with a fetish for eating movie scenery. Though, I do admire that he tried to steal the show in a movie with JIM f***ING CARREY!!!! Speaking of which, Carrey’s take on The Riddler is just awful, playing up all the worst of his comedy shtick that somehow worked better in Ace Ventura and The Mask. Even before transforming into a supervillain, Carrey is a rubberized gag machine. There’s a decent chance that he ad-libbed his entire role, barking out giddy non-sequiturs like “Spank me!” and “Joy-gasm!” that I think are supposed to function as jokes. Alas, they’re not funny. None of it is funny. The writing is just terrible. Screenwriter Lee Batchler and co-writers Janet Scott Batchler and Akiva Goldsman clearly thought they had things to say about Batman’s duality, but that only manifested in characters constantly mentioning that duality. It never adds up to anything. Nothing adds up to anything. Bruce Wayne, with no buildup or foreshadowing, suddenly decides to quit being Batman just because Nicole Kidman likes him. He implies over and over that he’s Batman before this supposedly brilliant psychologist finally figures it out. The Riddler’s dastardly plan to steal everyone’s brain waves or whatever fails because he kidnaps Batman and brings him to his lair without making sure that his brainwave-stealing machine is Batarang-proof. The Riddler sneaks into the Batcave and blows up everything he can find but somehow misses the enormous plane in there.

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I remembered Batman Forever as a pretty good movie and Batman & Robin as a pretty bad one. I recently revisited both for the first time in about 20 years.

It turns out they are both pretty awful and frankly even worse than I remembered. And I am not an especially harsh judge of movies.

They're an embarrassment to the franchise. Of the Batman reboot series that started with the '89 film, I think there is only one good movie. One good one, one so-so entry, and two terrible ones.

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Pros of Forever:
- Jim Carrey as The Riddler
- awesome soundtrack
- fun yet occasionally serious tone
- cinematography and scope of Gotham

Pros of Batman & Robin:
- Uma Thurman as Poison Ivy
- George Clooney as Batman
- cooler gadgets and costumes

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Lmao, George Clooney as Batman a pro? You're on drugs. His performance was laughably bad.

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Yeah, his agent said you will be playing batman and he heard James bond.

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No

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That person is saying Batman & Robin is better because it's so bad it's good. It's so bad I am embarrassed for the actors when I'm watching it.

I actually love Batman Forever. It was like a comic book coming to life. This Batman brawled with multiple bad guys unlike in the previous Keaton movies with swing kicks and flips and all that. The stunts were impressive. Lots of action. Peak Nicole Kidman hotness.

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Yes it is. Batman & Robin is unintentionally funny, at least. Similar thing happened with Burton's Batman. The first one was just so stiff its boring. Presumably Burton got more creative freedom with the second one and it shows. Batman Returns is easily the best of the Burton-Schumacher movies.

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I thought Batman Forever was actually superior in every aspect to Batman & Robin, though Kilmer was rather wooden as Buce Wayne while being a great Batman. The reviewer seems to be basing their opinion on Style over Substance/actual filmmaking quality. It's especially strange that he would praise Clooney for being chill in such a wooden role. He's basically praising the campy and humorous aspects of the film. He also seems to be ignorant that tons of movies have plot flaws and suspension of disbelief.

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I find Batman Forever a much more enjoyable movie. It’s not a great film. In fact, it’s highly flawed, but I can sit down and watch it. I can’t do that with B&R.

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In some aspects it is better, but worse in others. B&R is a bad movie but I always found it to be pretty over-hated to ridiculous levels. It's a 4/10, not among the worst films in history like most say.

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