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Is Batman Forever actually worse than Batman & Robin?


This person says so. Among the DC movies, Batman & Robin is ranked #21 while Batman Forever is ranked #30 here:
https://officialfan.proboards.com/thread/599749/hulk-ranks-movie-best-worst

21. Batman & Robin: While it’s famous as the film that killed the ’90s Batman franchise, Batman and Robin is not without its charms. It’s almost the archetypal so-bad-it’s-good movie. Yes, Arnold Schwarzenegger delivers about 600 ice puns in 125 minutes. But who doesn’t love ice puns, especially when delivered with such glee as Arnold spouts out? He’s clearly having fun in the role, and that comes off well. Yes, Uma Thurman is ludicrously sexed up as the villainous Poison Ivy. But who doesn’t love slinking, sultry Uma Thurman? She’s also clearly having a ball as well, and the cheesy performances of the villains are a guilty pleasure delight. Yes, George Clooney is oddly chill as Bruce Wayne. But who doesn’t love a guy who enjoys his life as a giant rubber bat? Yes, some things just don’t work, like Alicia Silverstone’s wooden performance, turning Bane from an interesting mastermind brute in the comics to just a regular brute in the movie, the Bat Credit Card (even more ridiculous than Bat Shark Repellent), nipples on Batman and Robin’s costumes, and an awful tease about the Dynamic Duo possibly breaking up. But, there’s a silly, cheesy charm throughout the movie. Nothing really works, which weirdly makes the whole movie work. And, it’s fascinating to watch the entire presentation of this Batman character as a strange combination of action figure and lust object. It’s like director Joel Schumacher, given a new level of creative control after his terrible Batman Forever made a ton of money, settled on a vision of Batman that would make everyone uncomfortable. He’s still apologizing for the movie today. Yet, in pushing his vision of the character even further out into the realm of campy surreality, the Schumacher of Batman & Robin at least paid homage to some past versions of the character: the defiant silliness of both the ’50s Golden Age comics and the ’60s TV series. That might not be the version of Batman that anyone wanted to see, but it’s something. Call it awful all you want. I never get sick of watching it.

30. Batman Forever: What in the hell were we thinking making this a big hit? This is just a supremely shitty movie. Director Joel Schumacher took Tim Burton’s dark aesthetic and splashed some neon all over it. He did everything he could to make Warner Bros. happy and basically turned this into a movie-long ad for Batman merchandise. Val Kilmer could have been a good Batman, but he apparently didn’t get along with Schumacher and just decided to sleepwalk through the role. He has no chemistry with Nicole Kidman, who, bless her heart, somehow made their romance work through her sheer force of will alone. Chris O’Donnell turns Robin into a teenage angsty brat. And, Bruce Wayne adopts him even though he looks 20. But, the real kicker were the villains. We got not one but TWO actors turning beloved, interesting Batman villains into the Joker. First, there’s Tommy Lee Jones’s terrible take on Two-Face. For one, they ruined the character by having him flip his coin until he gets the result he wants; comics Two-Face always respects the result no matter what. Secondly, while Jones could have done something interesting with the role, he instead hammed it up like a madman with a fetish for eating movie scenery. Though, I do admire that he tried to steal the show in a movie with JIM f***ING CARREY!!!! Speaking of which, Carrey’s take on The Riddler is just awful, playing up all the worst of his comedy shtick that somehow worked better in Ace Ventura and The Mask. Even before transforming into a supervillain, Carrey is a rubberized gag machine. There’s a decent chance that he ad-libbed his entire role, barking out giddy non-sequiturs like “Spank me!” and “Joy-gasm!” that I think are supposed to function as jokes. Alas, they’re not funny. None of it is funny. The writing is just terrible. Screenwriter Lee Batchler and co-writers Janet Scott Batchler and Akiva Goldsman clearly thought they had things to say about Batman’s duality, but that only manifested in characters constantly mentioning that duality. It never adds up to anything. Nothing adds up to anything. Bruce Wayne, with no buildup or foreshadowing, suddenly decides to quit being Batman just because Nicole Kidman likes him. He implies over and over that he’s Batman before this supposedly brilliant psychologist finally figures it out. The Riddler’s dastardly plan to steal everyone’s brain waves or whatever fails because he kidnaps Batman and brings him to his lair without making sure that his brainwave-stealing machine is Batarang-proof. The Riddler sneaks into the Batcave and blows up everything he can find but somehow misses the enormous plane in there.

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Batman Forever is far from a great movie, but it’s a watchable one and has some good elements, Jim Carrey is effective as The Riddler in parts, if he had a better director and they had gone for a darker tone overall he could have done wonders with that role.

Tommy Lee Jones gives a fuckin horrible performance though.

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