"Obvious spoilers"
This moment proves that the Alien possess some level of intelligence. If it were just a mindless killing machine. It would have killed Dallas on the spot. It wouldn't had waited for him to turn to around so that he could see it via the light from his flamethrower. Like it deliberately wanted to jump scare Dallas before killing him.
The alien did not kill Dallas in this scene. It carried him away, alive, to be cocooned into an egg.
Check out this deleted scene.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LuTk4Qc7JGI&pp=ygUVYWxpZW4gZWdnIG1vcnBoIHNjZW5l
I don't believe the deleted scene is cannon and only exists as part of special cuts. That's the original idea, but was abandoned.
As it stands, Dallas was killed and something lays the eggs.
I believe it is cannon (although Iβm not sure what qualifies as such) as Ripley makes reference to egg morphing in the novelization of Alien 3, when describing the Alienβs gestation process to Dillon.
shareThe film is what matters. If it's not in the original cut of the film, it's not considered.
Much like you don't go "But I thought John Conner eventually had a daughter who plays on a playground with an old Sarah Conner."
It's really not canon, unfortunately. I loved the absolutely horrifying eggmorphing scene. What a shitty way to go.
however, Scott said at some point it isn't canon, instead Aliens queen-theory is.
Personally, I'd be fine with both (what's first, hen or egg?) but oh well.
No big deal.
It is canon. In the director's cut, the scene was put back.
shareThank you for sharing that link. But if you only take the theatrical cut into consideration. The audience is lead to believe that it straight up killed him. Even though the body was never found.
But nevertheless! My point remains. The Alien quietly waited for Dallas to turn around before killing/abducting him. Like it WANTED for Dallas to face him. But then again! This isn't the only moment in the movie where The Alien showed some level of intelligence. My ex best even told me that the Xenomorphs were originally meant to be sentient. Take with that what you will.
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This could just be nitpicking, but I feel that animals in general are sentient; and there's evidence that there's sentience in plants as well (Jonesy sure is sentient, as far as I'm concerned!). So sentience in the Alien wouldn't be a big leap for me.
And many animals exhibit intelligence when it comes to both hunting and avoiding being caught: lions, many types of dogs, hyenas, and other animals live in a competitive/cooperative community and use various strategies to catch prey; crows and other corvids solve problems and manufacture and use tools; we won't even go into the weirdness that is the octopus. So, for me, the alien exhibiting intelligence when it comes to catching and using prey is not a stretch.
"And many animals exhibit intelligence when it comes to both hunting and avoiding being caught"
Hmmm, well!? In that case! You have to ask yourself how much of it is intelligence and how much of it is instinct π€
And by all means! Elaborate on the weirdness of octopuses π
shareThe alien didn't want to jump scare Dallas. It wanted to dazzle him with its fabulous jazz hands.
shareAlso, could have been a reference to HR Giger. His work is typically associated with "death metal", but he himself was a jazz man.
Why!? I don't know π€·
πππ
shareIt always seemed to me the alien was throwing out his hands like, "Hey! Will you turn that fucking light off, damn!"
shareAnother interpretation is that the alien felt itself in control. It was one step ahead throughout the scene, and it was deliberately waiting and toying with Dallas.
So it made sense to wait instead of rushing him. The alien felt at home in the ventilation system, for Dallas, it was an alien environment (pun perhaps intended?) - so it is a classic predator behavior to not necessarily rush the prey, but lay in wait, circle around and play a bit before the kill. That's what we see, I believe - coupled with the fact that Lambert is trying to interpret a 3D space with a tracker that can only show the positions of moving objects in 2D... Ash made sure that the mission will not be a success.
Of course the pun was unintentional! π
"It was one step ahead throughout the scene, and it was deliberately waiting and toying with Dallas. It is a classic predator behavior to not necessarily rush the prey, but lay in wait, circle around and play a bit before the kill".
Good observation. It behaved in the same manner with Brett and especially Lambert. I immediately thought of THE Predator when you typed this π
"Coupled with the fact that Lambert is trying to interpret a 3D space with a tracker that can only show the positions of moving objects in 2D".
Excellent observation! I never thought of that. Which obviously begs the question. Why use an incompatible tracker, relative to it's environment? I know this was 1979 and the movie makers were probably not thinking that far ahead. But was Weyland/Yutani on such a tight budget that they couldn't afford 3 dimensional trackers for their workers!? Expendable assets indeed! π
"Ash made sure that the mission will not be a success".
Another good point. Fans speculate that the good doctor sabotaged their operation (just like AI).
:) All agreed, and that's good to see :) Except for one minor point (actually two)
"Which obviously begs the question. Why use an incompatible tracker, relative to it's environment? I know this was 1979 and the movie makers were probably not thinking that far ahead. But was Weyland/Yutani on such a tight budget that they couldn't afford 3 dimensional trackers for their workers!?"
and this directly ties into...
Fans speculate that the good doctor sabotaged their operation (just like AI)
Well, to answer both of these is that you seem to have missed the fact - which is clearly stated in the movie - that they did not have motion trackers at all on the ship originally. The trackers were "hastily thrown together" by Ash. Hence Ripley asking about their operating principles. "Micro-changes in air density" claims Ash reluctantly. Anyways, either Ash genuinely did not have time to include a 3D display or he could have, but deliberately kept the screen 2D. Take your pick, but the trackers were not standard issue W-Y trackers, so Ash himself had plenty of option to sabotage them just a little bit :)
"Micro-changes in air density".
Oh, yeah! Now I remember. He got annoyed by Ripley when she kept pressing him for answers. So his field in WY is medical science, but he also knows how to improvise a half working motion tracker π€·
It's been years since I've seen it. But I thought it was Brett and Parker whom devised that aforementioned tracker. Remember that one deleted scene where Dallas asks them how long it would take to prepare a net for the little critter (while it was still a little critter π)? I figured they were the ones in charge of that kind of procedure.
And thank you :β -β )
You almost remember right, a couple of corrections :)
Ash is the "science officer" - so he is in charge of all things science. If you remember, he was the one who analyzed the atmosphere of the planetoid, using science terms and all. So they did not have a dedicated medical professional, but I can offer an explanation in universe.
I think it's part cost cutting - if you already have a science officer, who is a support crewmember, not participating in the actual work (hauling ore), why have a second support member? That only costs money, and if there is a medical emergency - and this is the second part - the science officer gets basic medical training to patch up an injured crewmember, using the RoboDoc.
I think for basic traumatology, the RoboDoc is sufficient, however if anything else happens, the crew can just use "the freezer" to conserve the sick crewmember and treat him on Earth or the nearest base. So complex medical interventions / operations are not needed, if they are, they are connected to physical injuries, which is something the RoboDoc can treat automatically.
Next point about the trackers, nets and cattle prods: Again, you are almost right. Brett and Parker were putting together the nets and the cattle prods. That was their job, and it is unclear if Ash got any orders from Dallas to create trackers, but anyways, he did. He kind of brings the topic up as this is something that he was working on unprompted, but the others are not terribly surprised, so you know - maybe they overheard Dallas asking him to "help" in some way... we'll never know :) Anyways, the trackers are his contribution to the search efforts. Later on, the flamethrowers were created by Parker after Brett's death, which is not only Parker's domain, but it can be interpreted as an act of revenge towards the alien. The alien killed his friend, so he wants to burn it with fire...
"if you already have a science officer, who is a support crewmember, not participating in the actual work (hauling ore), why have a second support member? That only costs money"
Companies are always cutting corners. That never changes! π
"I think for basic traumatology, the RoboDoc is sufficient, however if anything else happens, the crew can just use "the freezer"
That's exactly what Parker suggested to the good doctor. Place Kane in hibernation till they reached a "proper" medical facility. I don't remember an AI helper in the movie. Outside of Ash of course! π
Are you specifically referring to the medical machinery he was using?
"He kind of brings the topic up as this is something that he was working on unprompted, but the others are not terribly surprised, so you know - maybe they overheard Dallas asking him to "help" in some way... we'll never know :)"
Good observation.
"the flamethrowers were created by Parker after Brett's death, which is not only Parker's domain, but it can be interpreted as an act of revenge towards the alien. The alien killed his friend, so he wants to burn it with fire..."
Another good observation. It stands to reason he wanted to avenge his fallen comrade. Same how Mac wanted to get back at the Predator for killing his buddy, by carving his name onto it.
Yeah, fully agreed on companies cutting corners :-) That's one of the main messages of the film anyways.
Yes, Parker suggested they place Kane in hibernation. But the suggestion was ignored by Ash, Dallas and all the others. They were fascinated by the mystery, of what the facehugger might be doing with Kane. Dallas probably felt they need to try at least a few things to remove it, before considering hibernation. And picture that: Ash might say "We don't know anything about this creature, so it could be active in extremely low temperatures as well... so we are risking it possibly crawling on our own faces while wer are in hibernation, and cannot fight back" - or something to that effect, you know.
This is not a "sickness" where slowing down Kane's system would help conserve his state halts the progress of the disease. Ash would have a point: we really don't know at this point, if it would jump into anyone else's face or not. And if it would slow down in hibernation? They don't know... and that is a HUGE risk. Besides, Kane found the facehugger in an egg, still active in a cargo hold, where the temperature must have been around the hibernation temperature - and the facehugger was really active, leaping at him with insane speed, accuracy and strength... so I myself would agree with not freezing him.
And yes, by "RoboDoc" I was referring to the medical machinery he used for scanning Kane and get medical data on him. It's not an "AI" in the sense Ash is, but it's a device that stores and displays information on the most common injuries, illnesses it can diagnose and recommend treatment on. I don't think this term "RoboDoc" is spoken in the movie, I got it from the novelization - but I think it covers what I mean and what we see in the movie pretty well :-)
"Same how Mac wanted to get back at the Predator for killing his buddy, by carving his name onto it."
Great parallel! :-)
"They were fascinated by the mystery, of what the facehugger might be doing with Kane".
I think Dr Ash was the only one "fascinated" by it. Everyone else was horrified at the mere sight. Which is why captain Dallas wanted to remove it off of Kane's face as quickly as possible.
Even prepared to accept responsibility.
"And picture that: Ash might say "We don't know anything about this creature, so it could be active in extremely low temperatures as well".
This is why he said in a deleted scene that having the surviving crew go into "sleep mode" was a bad idea with that "thing" running around. Even if they cut off the oxygen supply.
"This is not a "sickness" where slowing down Kane's system would help conserve his state halts the progress of the disease".
Excellent point that I never really thought about. Any disease or natural illness, like cancer. Can only progress as long the host is still alive. Or at least displaying active signs of life. Which is why it can no longer develop, posthumously. To my understanding, anyway!
"Besides, Kane found the facehugger in an egg, still active in a cargo hold, where the temperature must have been around the hibernation temperature".
Another good point. It must have been freezing cold down there.
Each time you say "robodoc". I can't help but think of those little robot helpers from AI π
And thank you!
I sense some sarcasm in your post.
Basically, if it was intelligent then it shouldn't have waited for Dallas to turn OR unless it was to intelligent too have firmly known that it's own reflex will be much faster than that of Dallas' & that it could kill Dallas before he could position his flame thrower and pull the trigger.
I didn't mean to sound condescending.
The same argument can be made in Alien II on whether they deliberately shut down the power supply or was it just a "happy accident".
"OR unless it was to intelligent too have firmly known that it's own reflex will be much faster than that of Dallas' & that it could kill Dallas before he could position his flame thrower and pull the trigger".
Same way how The Predator waited for Dillon to open fire first. He knew he had a quicker draw. Since Disney owns Fox and Star Wars! They should use late 90's CGI and edit that scene to make it seem like Dallas attacked first and the Alien was just acting in self defense π
I think taking out the scene with his death is stupid.
I've spent all of my childhood thinking he might have been alive. Bare in mind this was before forums, internet and so on, during the 90s. I was expecting him to make a comeback in Aliens or Alien3 because of that.
Also explained a lot of the alien habitat.
The Xenomorph knew it was the only one of its kind on the human vessel, so it's natural directive was to collect every living organism and turn them into cocoons. I like to think that Xeno kept Dallas alive in the hopes that his cocoons would spawn a female/queen producing facehugger.
shareHmmm... I don't know if the concept of an alien queen existed back when it originally came out.
shareIn 1979, the original lifecycle was a lot different than what we got later. There was no queen, the new eggs were to be produced by a process called "egg-morphing". There is a deleted scene which shows this exactly: Brett and Dallas are captured and cocooned in a specific area of the ship. The cocooning looks very similar to the cocooning in Aliens. I think Cameron got that idea from watching that scene. So Giger designed a whole room around this.
Ripley happens upon this horrible tableau just after he discovers that Parker and Lambert are dead. She starts the countdown to the self-destruction, goes to the Narcissus, sees the alien being there, runs away in panic, disoriented, not watching where she is going, and just runs into the alien's lair, where Brett and Dallas are glued to the wall, and Brett is already almost completely morphed into an egg, whereas Dallas is at the beginning of the process, as in he is still conscious, and "greets" Ripley with horrifying moans. Ripley is completely devastated by the sight, and tries to argue for a rescue, as in she wants to peel Dallas off the wall, and get him to board the Narcissus, but Dallas is having none of it, as he can - presumably - feel the process has already begun, and he is beyond saving. He begs Ripley to kill him, and that's how the scene ends, Ripley torching Dallas, Brett and the lair completely.
Now this was what originally was the lifecycle and the creation of new eggs in '79. And let me tell you - this has even more horrific implications for the Derelict - considering how many eggs there were in the cargo hold - each of them could have been a poor Space Jockey or a creature that was indigenous to the planetoid and they are now all dead and converted into eggs...
Here is the egg morphing scene on YouTube - it was shot, and it's brilliant, but unfortunately was cut from the movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6dSIMFo7iU
That is a well thought out post. I know the scene you're referring to! It's unfortunate it had to be omitted from the final cut due to pacing purposes.
"this has even more horrific implications for the Derelict - considering how many eggs there were in the cargo hold - each of them could have been a poor Space Jockey or a creature that was indigenous to the planetoid and they are now all dead and converted into eggs"
I didn't think of it like that, but yeah! Imagine how many victims they had to sacrifice in order to gain an entire cargo hold's worth of them alien eggs. This also reminds of the original Mario brothers instruction manual (remember those days!?). They specifically mentioned that all the blocks in the game, were basically toads transformed into inanimate objects. And the player spends their entire time smashing them to pieces over Mario's head in order to gain access to power ups and what not! Imagine what's the implication there!?