MovieChat Forums > Alien (1979) Discussion > If the Alien/Xenomorph had such powerful...

If the Alien/Xenomorph had such powerful acid for blood ...


why would they not go the second step of having or evolving a way to squirt it out or spit it on something it wants to attack or destroy?

If the Alien was organic, it could not have acid for blood. As Breaking Bad taught us, organic carbon based life, i.e. human bodies are dissolved by acid.

So, the Alien is non-organic ... in which case why would it need a human or other kind of living being to gestate in? Why did it not feed off Kane? What would it have eaten from Kane's system?

I love this movie, but is there really anything to discuss about it 40 years later? It was a horror movie.

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I recently watched it and hell, it looks a little dated. Just look at the way "future" computing is depicted...

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Maybe the alien species is a bio-mechanical construct with allowances built in for acidic blood. Maybe the species was created as a bio weapon.

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Maybe?
Yeah, but then why would it need a human host to gestate inside ... and how many humans are there in the galaxy?

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Maybe it was created to specifically target humans and perhaps other warm-blooded humanoids if such exist in the Aliens universe.

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Target humans ... for what?

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To clear out human and human-like populations from worlds the other species wants to take over.

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Sounds Prometheus or Convenant inspired. Then the Xenomorph is an artificial construct. But attacking and ripping to shreds is a lot faster than laying eggs in people. The whole egg reproduction thing doesn't seem in line for an engineered bio-weapon.

But it is an interesting idea - like lots of stuff in the Alien universe that they never did shit with.

A movie like Covenant could have been interesting if they get to this planet and see that it wakes up hostile and starts to murder the crew. When they get the idea that a superior species must be using this planet as a placeholder - suddenly the real alien species flies in and lands to make sure no one is encroaching in their planets.

I heard there is going to be a new TV series about Alien where the aliens get to Earth. I think unless you have a huge number of them, the lag between when they are dropped and when they can grow a population big enough to genocide a whole planet with intelligent life on it would be long enough for an intelligent species to develop weapons and a strategy against them.

In other words it just seems like it would be better to have a Alien Extinction Wikipedia that carries bio-weapons, or radiation-weapons that would kill off the planet rather than to carry around a hold full of these things and their eggs.

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I always assumed from the first film that the Alien must be amazingly opportunistic in its reproductive abilities. It might not even need a host, but with its described weird biology, being able to use a human being as well as a twenty foot "space jockey" it could be capable of just about anything. If it was a product of natural evolution I can't imagine what the native environment would be, but as a biological WMD, it might make sense.

I ignore later movies and other material.

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> I always assumed from the first film that the Alien must be amazingly opportunistic in its reproductive abilities.

Yes, that is my point. A perfect organism as it was said would be able to eke energy and matter out of almost everything. Why would it need to gestate at all? Why would it need to eat, but if it did need to ingest matter to grow ... why such an elaborate jaw structure that could be so useless and easily damaged? It never made any sense.

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Because the writer thought it was cool and didn't really have a good explanation. Just like the acid blood.

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Based solely on the first film, my notion was that the Alien was capable of using radically different organisms to reproduce. This would allow it to take on selected features of the host species. I don't assume that the claim that the Alien is a "perfect" organism" is literally true. Just because the thing can function for a minute or two in a vacuum doesn't mean that it is able to live in any conditions permanently. I figure it might have needed to use the space jockey in order to live in whatever conditions that critter was native to and it might even have produced a slightly different size and shape Alien.

I do not know why the jaws as "ranged weapon" structure could make sense, but I am willing to assume it might without simply saying it's because it looked cool. The good thing about the first film is that we know so little and because the film feels real, we can accept that things might have an unknown explanation. Maybe the brain punching jaw thing is useful to get to the squishy parts of a lot of potential prey species.

The feeding business is something that was annoying in the film as it was released since it appeared that the Alien grew from the size of a chihuahua to larger than man-size in almost no time with no apparent nourishment. Of course, we don't know what it found to eat, but it would have been nice to see evidence of something being eaten.

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> Based solely on the first film, my notion was that the Alien was capable of using radically different organisms to reproduce.

Yeah, but seems like the "face hugger" was specialized to hug human like faces, but what about organisms where the feeding-hole is not in the face. Let alone specialized to a carbon based organic life-form ... when since it had acid for blood it might be more likely for it to be able to consume things that are closer to its own chemistry.

> The good thing about the first film is that we know so little and because the film feels real, we can accept that things might have an unknown explanation.

Yes, that is the cleverness of Alien. It worked really well, despite how ridiculous it was.

> Of course, we don't know what it found to eat, but it would have been nice to see evidence of something being eaten.

I agree, that is kind of a violation of the filmmaker-audience theatrical relationship.

I forget who said it, some Russian director I think, but when the audience sees a gun on the wall in the first act, they know that someone is going to use it in the third act. That is, the movie-world is recursively symbolic - if the director is doing a good job and sticking to artistic protocols.

It would not have taken much for then to perhaps in with all those tractors and equipment show the fuel tanks chewed open and drained, or anything organic, like seed stock, or even chewed up padding on the walls would have been interesting and created a more closing in on them atmosphere.

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Of course humans aren't the only hosts it can gestate inside.

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Because species don't get to pick how they evolve. Some cobras can't spit venom, why not all of them? Why didn't they choose to spit venom as well?

We have acid in our stomachs. Once I'm suspending my disbelief for the other elements of a ripping sci-fi (aliens, androids, etc.) I can conceive of a being that has a never-before-seen acid in a never-before-seen circulatory system that works just fine.

It was a superlative horror movie; that's why we're still discussing it forty years on.

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When you invoke evolution you have to realize this is a completely different case from anything terrestrial, so there really is no way to discuss it logically - except to imagine what evolutionary forces would apply to an alien race that seems to be able to exist in space, any atmosphere, ... exposed to any different form of life ... why adapt to human beings when they have never seen them before? Or mammals.

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"When you invoke evolution you have to realize this is a completely different case from anything terrestrial"

Why? Where did this come from?

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A fair criticism. Yes, it doesn't seem to be a codified rule, does it?

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Unfortunately when you start talking about the "sci" end of sci-fi a lot of people just seem to go off on all kinds of odd directions. It's one of the reasons I normally avoid the sci-fi crowd.

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Some of us try to be pretty reasonable.

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You would not expect a terrestrial organism to be generalized enough to interact with extraterrestrial biology ... evolution adapts to what the organism has contact with, not what it imagines it might run into in the hold of space ship! ;-)

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I would expect evolution to follow certain principals which make it conceivable that if there is alien life and we are able to interact with it in a meaningful way (ie, it's not a gaseous cloud) that it's also conceivable that there would be at least certain similarities.

What are the odds that extraterrestrial life could communicate, for instance? High. In a way that we could perceive? Also high. Maybe by lights, emitted chemical pheromones, or complex dance - as opposed to humanity's preference for aural communication - but probably measurable or appreciable by us nonetheless.

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You would not expect a terrestrial organism to be generalized enough to interact with extraterrestrial biology ... evolution adapts to what the organism has contact with, not what it imagines it might run into in the hold of space ship! ;-)

Reading thoughts like this I am always grinning: Yes! Exactly! That is the point! The alien is all the more horrifying precisely because it was able to gestate in a human! Don't you get it? It adds one more layer of intricacy and cosmic dread to the crew's and the viewer's experience! This makes the movie more effective - it makes the movie better.

Very similar thoughts appear in the short story "Who Goes There?" which is the basis of The Thing (1982). They are talking about how they could get some bacteria or virus from the thing and how dangerous it is. Copper calms them down by stating that human body chemistry would not allow a foreign bacteria to survive, and viruses are very specialized - you cannot catch a tobacco plant virus for example, even though tobacco and humans are from the same planet...

So scientifically, it is a valid question: why would the alien gestate in humans? But that makes the whole scenario all the more mysterious, dreading and horrifying.

This is not something the filmmakers were too lazy to think through. It's a deliberate artistic decision. The acidic blood was created to counter the "why don't they just shoot it?" scenario. The human gestation was created because it adds a layer of psychological horror - and it's a creative way to plausibly transport the creature to the spaceship - as in they didn't let it to the ship, they let Kane onto the ship (of course another layer is added with the Rip VS Ash battle regarding that moment).

These decisions are all taken in service of telling a sci-fi horror story. You can try to look for scientific explanations and reasons behind everything, but I don't think it's the movie's fault that it did not provide them.

Edit: I asked you this before, but did not get a reply: in Star Wars for FTL travel, no scientific explanation is provided. Do you take issue with that the same way as you do with the alien gestating in humans?

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Don't you get it?
You don't get it, arguing in favor of ghosts.

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Ghosts are not real, filmmakers are (why do I even have to...? nevermind). The filmmaking process and the vision behind it is more than sufficient to explain the points you raised.

And you avoided my Star Wars question. Again.

Do I have to ask it the third time?

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I don't like SF with FTL travel, or Time Travel.
BUT, for complicated space opera it is necessary, and a vision of the distant future. I prefer the travel in "The Expanse" that is solidly based on fact, I actually detest "Star Wars" not just because of the travel, but the communications as well.
You did not have to ask the first time because it is not really the same issue. It's like someone 200 years ago writing about space of time travel - it's just fantasy to build a story and an imaginary world.

A better example would be "Star Trek's" transporter. That is simply a device to not have to write about the trips up and down world in a shuttle.

Positing a life form is a bit of a different matter. Where do you start ... pointy ears, green blood, wings, antennae, 4 arms, scales, molecular acid blood. I just prefer things with that allow me to suspend my disbelief and give me more respect for the writer.

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Is that not self-explanatory?

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Part of the reason W-Y seeks the xenomorph (and why Ash admires it) is because of its adaptability.

For anything to survive as an interstellar species, it would be reasonable to assume (from an evolutionary perspective) that this being would have to evolve a hyper-adaptability. It evolves very basic genetic protocols allowing it to gestate in almost any type of creature (for instance). That's not impossible to posit or imagine.

Also, I'm glad that this point was brought up: it is a completely different case from anything terrestrial. So it's also completely reasonable to buy into its having strange acid-blood and the ability to not melt itself. Why? It might remind us of certain Earth-born species, but its also coming from a strange place and might not play by our rules.

If we take these two things together: a species not born of Earth can have (likely will have) properties we have not seen before, and that those properties might evolve into hyper-adaptability and nigh-impossible defence mechanisms, I would think it would be very plausible to imagine a natural selection track that brings the xenomorph to its Alien form.

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But doesn't that assume they already knew about the alien beforehand?

> It evolves very basic genetic protocols allowing it to gestate in almost any type of creature (for instance).

I have to disagree with this though ... it would be far more efficient to not need to gestate into anything - particularly if it is so generalized as to be able to nourish itself on almost anything.

I guess this is a religious war kind of thing that people argue to the death about, but I think at least both sides could admit that there is a logical inconsistency in the details of the aliens existence.

> I would think it would be very plausible to imagine a natural selection track that brings the xenomorph to its Alien form.

I've read a lot about evolution, genetics, DNA, etc, and the one thing that evolution is about, at least with our biology or DNA and a genetic code ... which is really just a computer memory in a way, is that it evolved from changes in what was already there.

For example the reason they say humans have such large brains is that there is a regulator that controls how many levels of neurons we have in our cortex, and in humans we somehow selected for a mutation that allowed our brains to grow through more levels. I have not given it that much thought, but think of the hummingbird that is so specialized to be able to reach its beak down into certain kinds of flowers that other animals cannot reach.

Then think about what that extendable snapping jaw would have evolved for in the alien. It is a very specific thing, which is the opposite of the idea that it is a generalize killing machine.

The problem is that like in politics if someone likes someone they come up with all kinds of reasons to justify it, and people love this move, and so imbue it with all kinds of evolutionary imaginings. I just don't see it.

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What exactly W-Y knew is unclear, but they knew that there was something to find. This is revealed in the movie.

Part of science-fiction is using tech and scientific knowledge and creating "what-if?" scenarios based on those principals. I think that the idea of an alien evolving into the ultimate death creature is one of those scenarios.

I don't know what our relative understandings of science and evolution are, but I'm not unlearned on those topics and I don't see why a xenomorph couldn't exist.

I'd like to return to the original complaints:

1. Why couldn't it spit acid?
2. If it has acid for blood (or acidic blood) it couldn't be biological.
3. Why would it need another life form to gestate in?

1. Not all cobras spit venom, even though they are venomous. Therefore, a xenomorph might possess acid blood (or acidic blood) without being able to expectorate it as a method of attack.
2. Our own internal acid (stomach acid) doesn't melt us. Therefore, a biological creature can have internal acidic fluids. Just because the xenomorph's acidic fluids function differently or are more powerful than ours is not a reason to assume it couldn't work.
3. Bot flies need a host to gestate. Therefore the xenomorph can conceivably operate on a similar principal.

Honestly, you keep referencing religious, ideological, or tribal/political motivation for people defending this movie, but since you keep ignoring scientific/evolutionary precedent for the issues you raise on the xenomorph, I would suggest that immobile thought processes are (at least) not exclusively the territory of the proponents of the film.

Do I think the xenomorph is likely to exist out there? No. It's a made-up movie monster. But is it impossible, especially within the world of the film Alien? No. It seems as reasonable as many other elements of sci-fi throughout the genre's many incarnations.

I don't think the movie is flawless. I'm not sure a flawless movie exists. Art is subjective, at the very least. But I think it's excellent and an exemplary sci-fi film AND an exemplary horror film. That high quality and nuance makes it worth discussing forty+ years on.

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Alien is most certainly not flawless - whenever I am watching it, I'm always bothered by the scene Ripley is arriving after Parker's and Lambert's death.

We see a dangling, bloody foot (or hand?) that's great. But we see Parker crouching / sitting. He's dead, therefore he wouldn't have the muscle tone to keep his body in that position. Also, his forehead should not be intact, but in that shot, it is. It has always bothered me, I consider it a flaw. Even if they did not have the time to create the gore required, they could have positioned Parker in a way his forehead would not even be visible.

But hey, that's an error. Errors happen, it's not really that big of a deal.

I brought up this example because this is an actual flaw in the context of the plot and the filmmaking process. And I consider this a much more serious flaw than scientific inaccuracies that are only revealed if we compare the depicted scenario to real life - which makes for fun speculation and exciting discussions - as long as someone is openly attacking the film using those arguments. I really don't understand why people try to argue about sci-fi movies with such close-minded approach. Humanity doesn't know everything about science. Just because something looks impossible, doesn't mean it actually is. And comparisons to real life are only reasonalbe to a certain extent - you always have to keep an open mind to be able to evaluate the artistic vision behind the work

In Alien some things are scientifically impossible (or improbable) because they should be. The film is designed deliberately that way. I enjoy nitpicking movies, but I think there should be a line between "this is stupid, the movie is ruined!" VS "hah, this wouldn't work in real life, but I understand why they written / filmed it like that - it's more exciting / visually interesting that way!"

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Yeah, there are moments like you describe, continuity errors, etc. that leave small pockmarks in Alien's high quality, but most of the film is solid and the world presented is brilliant.

In the context of the plot and filmmaking is a great way of putting it. Alien has internal logical consistency, even if stuff doesn't make sense in the real world. Perhaps most prominently is the tech discrepancy between the world of Alien and our own world. It doesn't make sense to us why their computers are clunky, '80s-style things, but it doesn't have to because it doesn't create a problem within the film's universe. We also know (filmmaking process) that it's impossible to predict the future, so accurately depicting technology that doesn't exist yet isn't possible.

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Good questions, but the point of the movie is to leave most of these as mysteries, like the origin of the Alien.

It can be "non-organic" in the sense that it's biomechanical, maybe it is artificially created... and if it was designed, obviously it was designed not to be dissolved by its own acid. Also, you know how spiders don't get stuck in their own nets? If you need an analogy, that could be something like that.

But the alien is an unknown and diabolical creature. It's best if you keep it that way. Of course it's fun to speculate, but I don't think we are going to find any scientifically accurate explanations on anything it does.

So two real life examples could be the spiders and our stomach acid. Stomach acid is very corrosive to our own bodies, but our stomach walls are not burned, because of protective coating. The alien could also have protective coating. Here is the explanation. Take it or leave it.

And your last 2 sentences are so bizarre, dude. On the one hand, it speaks volumes about the film's quality that even well after 40 years the discussion is active about it. On the other hand: you just came to this message board and opened a thread about a detail in the movie. So even you yourself think that there is more to discuss! Wouldn't you agree?

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Very astute point: part of the fun (and horror) of Alien is the mystery of it. The spider analogy is also solid.

Films (especially spec fic stuff) would also get bogged down if they went too in-depth on things like xenomorph acid chemical structure.

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> and if it was designed, obviously it was designed not to be dissolved by its own acid.

Yes, but acid is a terrific weapon, and if you recall in the I can't remember what the title was where they were keeping aliens in glass cages and they escaped by cracking their heads against the glass releasing their acid ... if someone went though all the trouble to design the aliens, seems like they would have some kind of gland to release or spit their acid. That would be logical.

The icon of the movie was there, and I made a comment. It's that simple. People still comment about King King. SciFi movies age, and seems silly after a way, and talking about why is neither here nor there.

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If talking about silly, old sci-fi films is "neither here nor there", why are you doing it?

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This gimp keeps trying to take down Alien and just gets his ass handed to him over and over 😂

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I had all but forgotten this conversation when I got the notification of your reply. On reviewing the thread, it's very odd that TretnQuarantino insists upon viewing Alien's defenders as zealots who make excuses while simultaneously ignoring his own dogmatic adherence to his view of the film regardless of *any* argument or apologia presented on the subject.

One of those posts I honestly can't tell if it's meant to be serious or a troll. Either way, yes, it is amusing.

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If he’s sincere he’s just broadcasting his utter retardation. If he’s trolling he’s wasting huge amounts of his own time and still comes across looking like a dick.

Hard to decide which is sadder.

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Yeah, either way it's not great. I just like talking about Alien.

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Me too - and that's why I'm always replying to him in good faith, trying to take his questions at face value, and it is actually fun to answer them.

Of course, many times it happened that after an initial answer, the conversation spiraled an devolved into something utterly bizarre, usually ending around the point of "Talking about movies is silly" - which is even more bizarre coming from someone who is... talking about movies on a movie discussion board.

Like... why is he here asking questions in the first place if he doesn't care about the discussion itself? Bizarre, I say.

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Yeah, that's what I do. I assume good faith until I'm convinced that the person isn't in good faith, at which point I decide if I want to continue based on whether or not I'm still having fun. Sometimes I am, sometimes it's not worth my time.

The "talking about movies is silly" response is weird. It's not just that he's talking about movies, it's that he's doing it a lot. He didn't just fire off a post and a couple responses, he's engaging with the message board. This isn't somebody who was bored for a couple minutes, they're dedicating a lot of time to it. I like talking about movies, so it makes sense that I'm here a lot. If I thought this was a waste of time, I'd go do something else.

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why would they not go the second step of having or evolving a way to squirt it out or spit it on something it wants to attack or destroy?

Perhaps you should watch Alien 3 and AR. They do exactly that.

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They had to bash their heads in to get the acid blood out.

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No.
The Alien in Alien 3 spits acid at the prisoner who then falls in to the fan and the Alien in AR spits acid at Christie when he is climbing up the ladder with Vriess strapped to him.

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I have not seen that movie since it came out - and did not like it.

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Well you may not like it, but the fact remains that they spit acid.

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I thought I heard decades ago that the Alien is a silicon based life form, would that work for acid for blood? Doesn’t really explain Ripley 8’s acid blood in AR.

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That's a good line of logic. I mean they should give us at least something! I don't remember AR and Ripley 8?

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Alien Resurrection, and Ripley in that movie is not the one that died in Alien 3, but the eighth clone of that Ripley. In the film, Ripley has acidic blood which she uses to escape from her holding cell on the USM Auriga.

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Imagine you encountered some aliens who, unbeknownst to you, had ships and were themselves constructed of organic material for which your blood was relatively acidic. You're not going to go around poking holes in yourself to attack them would you? For all we know (as of the first film) they evolved in an environment in which their blood wouldn't harm other creatures that like themselves were impervious to it. There would thus be no evolutionary reason for them to be able to stream it out on demand.

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Hahaha, that's funny. Of course not, because my blood is not made of concentrated molecular acid ... whatever that was supposed to be. When my blood drips onto the floor it doesn't eat a hole in the floor.

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Your blood DOESN'T eat a hole in the floor, huh? I think I need to see a doctor...

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