MovieChat Forums > Elliot Page Discussion > Serious question: Why do you oppose tran...

Serious question: Why do you oppose transgender people?


Simple question

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I don’t oppose people who struggle with gender dysphoria. I oppose people who refuse to accept it as a mental illness and who push it on children as being trendy and progressive. I oppose anyone who denies the biological reality of sex and who wants to dismantle women-only spaces.

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YIKES

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but medical organizations do not classify it as a mental illness

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Medical organizations are often wrong and sometime simply make decisions based on what is profitable to the doctors and drug companies. Look at glucose levels and what is considered pre-diabetic now verses what level it was historically... it has changed with them continually lowering the level. Is it because they were wrong in the past? Or was it because they simply want to be able to justify prescribing drugs that generate revenue to more people? Who knows but either way either the old numbers were wrong or the new numbers are wrong because nothing else has changed. Point being medical organization aren't always right. Often times money drives what is said and claimed. Hell look at kids with ADHD, did we magically have something happen so that the number of kids with it went up by an order of magnitude over night? Or did changes in benefits that were available based on an ADHD diagnosis cause people to start finding problems where they really didn't exist.

I will guarantee if the government were to pass a law that people with a mental illness would not be allow to have free sex change surgery and treatment that you would have transgenders trying to push to have it considered a mental illness.

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Which medical organizations? I’m sure there are some who have caved to political pressure and more will in the future. That doesn’t change reality.

Gender dysphoria is listed in the DSM-5 as a mental disorder. Mental illness is generally defined as something that causes personal distress and/or disrupts everyday functioning. Feeling as if you were born in the wrong body to the point of being willing to have it surgically and hormonally altered is certainly a big personal distress factor. Trying to push this self-doubt and confusion onto kids is mental abuse and a big indicator of cultural decay.

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They did until about 2 years ago: https://nationalpost.com/news/world-health-organization-gender-identity-disorder. Their change in stance is not about ANYTHING medical. It's all politics and a bizarre attempt to help/combat the mental illness, suicide rates, etc. trans people go through. It's nothing fact driven. LOOK at their answer. It was to "help with the stigma", there are no facts here.

Why do I oppose them? I don't. They have a right to live and lead their lives. I would step in if I saw anyone trying to hurt one of them. But this is mass mental illness. These people THINK they are another gender. There is no proof they are, it's a belief. A feeling. They want to compete with naturally born women in sports. People like Laurel Hibbard, Fallon Fox - who literally beat women for his "job" - and those two assholes in CT: https://www.outsports.com/2019/6/3/18649927/ncaa-track-champion-cece-telfer-transgender-athlete-fpu-trans-testosterone. I will NEVER support this kind of thing.

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You are misrepresenting their explanation, it is clearly based on science. There have been multiple studies on Transgender identity. Science has already proven how the brain functions in relation to gender identity. As a reference, you can check out the Netflix documentary: Gender Revolution: A Journey With Katie Couric. It is highly informative and engaging.

Other academic papers have been published in which case studies have been done on the impact that the rejection transgender people face from family and society and how it contributes to depression, homelessness, discontinuation of education, drug abuse and suicide.

References:
Reback, C. J., & Fletcher, J. B. (2014). HIV prevalence, substance use, and sexual risk behaviors among transgender women recruited through outreach.

Sevelius, J. M. (2013). Gender affirmation: a framework for conceptualizing risk behavior among transgender women of color.

Delphy, C. (1993, January). Rethinking sex and gender.

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This has all been debunked. What the studies have SHOWN is that there is a tendency for men to have a larger BNST and women to have a smaller BNST. Other proposed gender typing of the brain have also had correlation with homosexuality which is why there is a focus on the BNST since it appears to not be tied to sexuality. The problem with this is that the research constantly shows non-trans individuals whose BNST size claims they should be trans and trans individuals whose BNST size indicates they're not trans.

Repeat, we only have a TENDENCY for brain structures to be a certain way in gender identifying individuals, it isn't absolute. Understanding science is hard for people who only watch documentaries and never actually read the studies they hype. Correlation does not equal causation, the rush to find validation through claiming science supports you only weakens your argument.

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I'll take the word of the World Health Organization who promoted the decision, thank you.

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No, you'll take the word of uneducated news casters, you haven't even read what the WHO says about this.

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It is not a mental illness, deal with it

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Who said it was? You just don't understand what it is.

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The WHO that couldn't even investigate the origins of the Wuhan virus?

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👍

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I agree.

By the way, are you a Smashing Pumpkins fan?

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Yep, a big fan. Hence the username. You?

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Yes.

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I don’t.
I actually found a Transgender Woman that I found has reasonable views and am a fan of. Of course, she seems to be hated by the trans community.

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Blair White?

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Correct.

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fyi, that's a dude...

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Correct.

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True but I wouldn't questions a guys heterosexuality for hitting that. He's more feminine than most women.

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That's the way it goes with "progressives" - you agree with the mob or they hate you. Try to "cancel" your life. I came across Blair via one of her YouTube friends/collaborators pages. Jaclyn something? She's super liberal, Blair is not, but they always got along.

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I’m not familiar with that person. Blair seems reasonable, fair and wouldn’t be attempting to shove her her beliefs on me and tell me I’m a bigot of some sort. I would call her a her and show her the utmost respect.

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I don't.

I only oppose their denial of biological reality. It matters more than their feelings.

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what denial?

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Their chromosomes are what they are. They determine if you are male or female... if you have and X and Y then your a man doesn't matter if you wish you were a woman or not, you are still a male. You can't wish away genetics. And yes there are rare, exceedingly rare instances of someone having XXY or XYY chromosomes but we aren't talking about these things with transgenders the vast majority of transgenders have normal chromosomes they simply suffer from a mental illness where they think they are different gender or want to be a different gender. Like the mentally ill that think they are dogs or cats.

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transgenderism is not classified as a mental illness by medical organizations

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So what? I can find idiots that think the world is flat but that doesn't change reality.

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so you deny science. ok.

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Medical organizations aren't science often they are just lobbyist working to help doctor or drug companies make money

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The same denial you expressed with your question, moron.

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There are multiple issues with this question, the first being that you can oppose the theories of LGBT origins without being lgbtphobic or "opposing LGBT." This comes across as "opposing LGBT" as many people who are LGBT have taught themselves these lies as rebuttals to common arguments used against LGBT. So the train of thought goes "if you oppose one belief of mine you must oppose this belief and that belief and so on." Or rather, your question leads to an overgeneralization of people who have disagreement with ideological issues LGBT has.

Take the myth of "born that way," science has repeatedly and consistently shown this to be false as environmental factors have significant influence upon the outcome. We've gone from genetics, prenatal hormone levels, birth order, and have consistently failed to supply "if you do this, then your child will be gay" only "if you do this then your child may turn out to be gay." Despite science being rather firm about this, the "born that way" myth continues to spread since it is an easy argument against people who actually are homophobic, "I can't, I was born this way." Rather than argue "Even if I chose to be this way, what harm is it to you" the "I can't, I was born this way" has become the main defensive response to actual bigotry.

Transgenderism suffers similar problems, the science actually works against it and there is confusion in the community about neuroplasticity (many people don't seem to understand that the brain changes as you grow older.) Just like when identical twins showed an increased likelihood of both twins being gay and the homosexual community claimed it was proof that homosexuality was genetic (which we know it isn't), many of the MRI studies out right admit they classify non-trans individuals as trans and many trans individuals as non-trans but that as a general trend there is a correlation between BNST size and gender.

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"Transgenderism suffers similar problems, the science actually works against it"

"homosexual community claimed it was proof that homosexuality was genetic (which we know it isn't)"

Do you have links to the scientific studies supporting these claims?

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What, that homosexuality isn't genetic, or that the LGBT community was all over "it's genetic" in the 90's? http://archive.tim-taylor.com/papers/twin_studies/studies.html

I suggest you read the full article of:
"Brain functional connectivity patterns in children and adolescents with gender dysphoria: Sex-atypical or not?"

The abstract isn't enough, when you get down to the meat of things you find the aforementioned issues.

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Particularly how the science works against transgenderism.

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I've already explained it to you, you're just looking for me to provide someone ELSE explaining it to you so you can claim "but that person isn't a scientist" despite the fact you get the majority of your information from non-scientists. What news writers claim a study says and what it actually says are usually quite different. They'll stick to the conclusion it provides, but not the science of how that conclusion was derived.

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Serious answer:

I don't oppose trans people. I just don't like the atmosphere surrounding it at the moment. It's become very political. People can have their opinions and that's fine, we shouldn't try to destroy people for expressing their views.

To be honest, I think there will come a time when we treat gender dysphoria differently than we do now. I'm not so sure that treating people with hormones and surgery is the "right" way to go about this. The medical community just hasn't figure this one out yet. They will eventually though. It's just not feasible to tell people with GD to change their anatomy to treat something that starts in the mind.

I mean, we don't tell people to change their body that have schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, psychosis, and other mental problems, why do this with people that have GD?

At any rate, we'll see how this plays out in the future but I do think more research is needed.

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“ I mean, we don't tell people to change their body that have schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, psychosis, and other mental problems, why do this with people that have GD?”

Because GD is a different condition requiring a different treatment.

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I despise this topic because of how intellectually dishonest it feels. People either think that trans people are their preferred gender or they don't. Both sides, but mainly the ones pro trans try to force you to think their way and it drives me up the fucking wall, man. If I don't see someone as their preferred gender, of course I'm going to come towards the whole bathroom debate and such from a different angle, doesn't make me a bigot, or at least not in my opinion. And if people really think that makes me a bigot, I'm not going to debate this with them because I feel like their whole outlook on life is just way too black and white.

I would still call them by their preferred name and even pronoun when it mattered, although I wouldn't agree with it, I don't want to go out of my way to hurt anyone's feelings. But these people got to understand that I just fundamentally disagree with them and forcing me to act differently will obviously cause some pushback. But I don't want to be associated with some of the retards who spam this board with hate though, especially the idiot who brought her up when I was discussing Inception, an awesome movie btw, and she wasn't even remotely relevant to the discussion apart from being part of the cast.

And another thing, I hate how condescending these people who argue with me are, like they have the moral highground and I have no idea what I'm talking about. It really boils my blood.

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How is asking that you recognize their dignity as trans people driving you up a wall?

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there it is again, wtf does it have to do with dignity?

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transgender people asking for equality does

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What do you mean by equality? Voting rights? Are you just trying to get a rise out of people here?

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Dictating the speech of others is not equality, its privilege. Like a queen demanding you call her 'Your Majesty'.

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We all have equal right to free thought and free speech. I should be allowed to describe the world as I see it. Like when seeing a dude in a dress, still calling him a dude, because he is.

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I oppose medical professionals taking advantage of those with mental illness for cash. I oppose the perversion in those that aren't mentally ill. I oppose the forcing of society to act as if fiction is real. I oppose the desire for special rights as opposed to equal rights. I oppose the selfishness that comes with knowingly making people uncomfortable and having tax payers pay for their mutilations. I support getting help for those that are dealing with this type of problem.

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because trannies are fake & gay...

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how are they fake?

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