MovieChat Forums > General Discussion > No sarcasm in Japanese culture

No sarcasm in Japanese culture


The Cincinnati Reds have their first Japanese player.

The announcers stated that he was learning English well but was having trouble understanding sarcasm, which is not used or understood well in Japan.

I thought sarcasm was universal and I was thinking why this would be.

The answer I came up with is the template they use for masculine behavior...the Samurai.

There are few things in this world more serious than a Samurai.

A sarcastic samurai is a oxymoron...but potentially a good SNL character.

That is the best I could come up with.

Anyone else have ideas as to why?

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Pretty similar to yours. Japanese seem to be very serious people and sarcasm is a form of humour and also a rather good way to get your point across in a passive aggressive manner.

Sarcasm would be too cumbersome for a people who would want to get straight to the point. In the West we are more balanced, laid back when we can be and work hard when we have to.

These are the same people who have some of the most weird porn out there but pixelate the genitals. So I'll be damn if I am about to psycho analyze them!

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They have some very odd game shows also.

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You can find weird TV shows anywhere in the world. Look at reality TV in the US. Or those documentaries about how extraterrestrials built the pyramids. You can also find lots of perfectly normal TV shows in Japan, but those don't tend to get any attention outside of the country.

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Don't get me wrong,I have a very high respect for Japanese culture.

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Japanese seem to be very serious people and sarcasm is a form of humour

I wouldn't say that Japanese are "very serious people". It's more about having a different sense of humor and, particularly, a different sense of timing regarding when humor should be used.

You see Japanese comedy and it's simply brilliant, but you don't see people using irony, much less sarcasm. Humor in western countries is often used to deal with difficult or problematic situations (which makes sarcasm kind of usual). In East Asia, it's more a way for people to get close and enjoy their time together, it's more relaxed and kind.

These are the same people who have some of the most weird porn out there but pixelate the genitals. So I'll be damn if I am about to psycho analyze them!

Well, western countries are the place where a man portrayed killing a woman in a movie is considered popular entertainment and fun, but the very same man portrayed raping the very same woman is considered disgusting.

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There's some weird Orientalism going on in this thread, talking about how "the Japanese" are versus how "the West" is. Jeez, it's 2020 already, I can't believe people still talk like this. "Japanese seem to be very serious people"? Japanese people are just people like anyone else who laugh and have fun as much as anyone. Look up Japanese comedy, there's TONS of it.

Maybe sarcasm doesn't play as much of a role in Japanese-language humor as it does in English-language humor, but it's not like the concept is unheard of. If a Japanese ball player who isn't fluent in English is having trouble understanding sarcasm, it's probably more because he's not fluent than because the concept is alien to him. Understanding humor, especially sarcastic humor, requires understanding a lot of nuances that a person who isn't fluent in any language is likely to miss.

"These are the same people who have some of the most weird porn out there but pixelate the genitals. So I'll be damn if I am about to psycho analyze them!"

Psychoanalyzing 125 million people would be a neat trick. Imagine trying to psychoanalyze all Americans or all Germans based on the porn industry of their countries.

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It's 2020 the thought police says you can't notice differences between cultures.

We all all the same boring mega Borg culture.

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My wife and I had the best time when we were there for a month about 12 years ago. We are definitely going back with our daughter one day.

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Wow that was a lot of offence taken on behalf of a whole race over things that were said that weren't even offensive.

Going by their suicide rate I would say they are very serious people. I would also say that getting upset over curiosity as well as perceptions of other cultures is really stupid.

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Japanese have a sense of humor but they seem to stay with the sort of wacky, inoffensive variety of comedy. Maybe it's a result of the importance of keeping everything harmonious. Sarcasm is used to mock and can be pretty confrontational.

I'm thinking that's why they don't have anyone like George Carlin or Bill Hicks over there. That kind of confrontational comedy where you go after ideas or people you don't like or consider foolish might be off putting to them. They wouldn't see it as funny. In Japan, they are all about avoiding direct conflict and upsetting the apple cart.

Just my inexpert, not tremendously well informed opinion after watching some documentaries, vlogs, and Japanese movies and shows.

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The word įšŪ肉 means sarcasm or irony in Japanese.

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It means "prostitution" in Chinese.

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It means "flesh" in Chinese.

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And a lot of Americans don't get sarcasm.

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Sarcasm is subtle. Subtlety doesn't work when you are learning a language. New language learning is like raw code-breaking. Solid definitions. Nuance comes long after fluency.

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Some time ago I went to Japan as a tourist, I prepared for the trip as best as I could; read several books, took a round of Berlitz classes, and got to know several Japanese along the way (here in the US, and also in Japan while there). Be warned, that's the extent of my "expertise," which means this is all worth what you're paying for it, which is nothing.

> The answer I came up with is the template they use for masculine behavior...the Samurai.

There might be something to that. But on the whole, it seems to me that attempting to understand modern Japanese by looking to samurai, bushido, et cetera is like trying to understand modern Atlanta by watching Gone With The Wind.

Here's something that occurs to me. An important value in Japanese culture is group harmony, which means more politeness than you'd experience in the USA. With Japan's population density this is a good thing, especially in places like Tokyo where, whenever out in public, a person is constantly surrounded by other people. Far better if everyone gets along, at least at the level of superficial social pleasantries.

The way we do sarcasm is sometimes as a direct personal attack. It might be with full, hostile intent; or as a mild criticism; or just for comic effect. Maybe some Japanese, because of their valuing politeness, are averse to direct confrontation; and in this particular case (the Reds player), where it's done in an unfamiliar culture and language, the player might have trouble discerning the real intent (hostile, kidding, etc) behind the sarcasm.

OTOH, maybe it's just jet lag.

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That's a great post, thanks for the insight.

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I was in Japan twice in the 80's, it would be interesting to go back and see how things have changed but then I have also changed so how do you judge.

During my visits the men spoke assertively, like they were hammering you with their speech, except the few who had spent time in America who spoke more casually like Americans. The men loved to drink just as much as Americans (or anyone else) and would get silly drunk and laugh uproariously. They loved to have fun, enjoyed getting me to eat things that would get a funny reaction. They taught me Jap drinking games and I taught them how to shotgun beer, they loved it. We cooked out (hibachi) together. I didn't see any women getting drunk. Most women wouldn't speak to a Yankee unless we began the conversation and then they would act all shy and giggly. A few women were progressive and would come up and talk to us. Unfortunately speaking to women was difficult because few women were taught English back then. In bars the men would sit together and the women would sit together, rarely mingling. Dancing was same sex. A guy taught me how to ask a girl to dance, it was involved .. we had to be introduced, there was a verbal exchange, then I could ask her to dance. She always said yes and her friends would get very excited because it was risque. Occasionally groups would follow us around chanting, "Yankee go home!" They would make obscene gestures or say obscene things to try and provoke a reaction. It was a lot of fun and mostly the guys there were just like guys here, we got along fantastically.

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Not an answer directed at the OP but more a comment after reading everyone's contributions so far.

Recently I caught myself wanting to be sarcastic somewhere here on MC, like - oh, that's a great idea !
Then I realized I had to indicate some way that I was being sarcastic, and I thought of using quotes or capitalizing or a sarcasm alert. Finally I figured maybe it's better to just say exactly what I meant and forget the sarcasm. It's easier and more to the point and just makes sense.

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That's why they lost WW II.

😎

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