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Apparently vegans and progressives are the worst

posted 5 years ago by [deleted]
68 replies | jump to latest

https://reason.com/blog/2018/03/23/vegan-men-masculinity-sociologist

Supposedly, according to some people, male vegans are misogynists, since 'logic and reason are masculine traits' and men who choose to become vegan on the basis of logic and reason are therefore 'upholding the patriarchy'. 🙄

For what it's worth, despite my gender, I'm one of those long-standing 'feminine' bleeding-heart vegans whose diet is mostly predicated on ethical animal rights reasons, but the idea that logic and reason are 'masculine' (and presumably, by implication, women are 'illogical' and 'unreasonable') is deeply offensive to both men and women.

But here's another example of self-hating progressives shooting ourselves in the foot, and further proving to our right-wing critics how silly we are:

https://www.newstatesman.com/obin-diangelo-white-fragility-why-its-so-hard-for-white-people-to-talk-about-racism

“white progressives cause the most daily damage to people of colour" (presumably including the white progressive, Robin DiAngelo, who wrote this line).

With so much of us on the left constantly castigating ourselves and telling ourselves how terrible we are, no matter what we do and how hard we try, cons look at us and think 'what's the point of living an ethical life?'

[–] ShogunofYonkers (73528) 5 years ago

I like meat AND ladies😉LOL
Sorry...

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 5 years ago

Amen, Bro! Especially Prime Rib! I had that for dinner tonight, and it was just WONDERFUL!

😎

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I am not vegan. Is that good or bad ??

[–] ShogunofYonkers (73528) 5 years ago

It's very, very bad!
There will be a knock on your door at any moment👮‍♀️👮🏼‍♂️

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 5 years ago

You know, there was a time when I would have thought that was hilarious. But sadly, that time has long since passed. Things like that are happening already. Look at what those Leftist Morons did in attacking Tucker Carlson's home, trying
to break down the door, and threatening his wife. Sick and twisted, but not unexpected from the Loonies on the Left.

😐

[–] ShogunofYonkers (73528) 5 years ago

Yes, that was despicable

Say what we might about them but I like the old Italian Mafia rule...
Hit the guy, leave wives and children out if it

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 5 years ago

Yes, and your are correct about the old Italian Mafia. They did have principles.

😐

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Up to you.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I would say it's good, from an ethical, environmental and general health perspective.

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 5 years ago

Many experts disagree with you, Mal. Check out this article which lists 10 dangers of a vegan diet:

https://butternutrition.com/10-vegan-diet-dangers/

😎

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I'm doing okay on my diet MovieManCin2.

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 5 years ago

Glad to hear it. Just thought I would point that out.

😎

[–] Padeen (6459) 5 years ago

Neither. I don't think there's a one sized fits all diet. Do what is best for your own general well being and health. I'm cool with vegans, but not militant vegans who push their beliefs on others.

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 5 years ago

Well said, sir!

😎

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 5 years ago

It's good.

😎

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

👍👍👍👍

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

So why should anyone listen to a demograf that admits that it lacks logic and reason?

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

What I object to is the notion that logic and reason are inherently male traits. They're not, and to suggest otherwise is an insult to women.

But clearly some idiots are trying to cloak this absurd contention in faux-progressive rhetoric.

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 5 years ago

Amen.

😎

[–] slimone (7996) 5 years ago

Get a life!

[–] Stratego (29521) 5 years ago

Why is it so important what "the right" thinks of this?

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

That's really a great question.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Because no-one likes to be mocked and laughed at.

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

You sound far too sensitive to what the right thinks of you.

For example, just stating that you're a feminine bleeding hearts animal-rights conscious vegan is enough to elicit their mass ridicule.

It would be unprincipled for you to try and change who you fundamentally are in order to be less cowed by their jeers. I hope to not bear witness to watching you buckle under their heat and succumb. That would be gory.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I'm not going to sacrifice my principles, especially not to accommodate the right, but I don't think silly articles by liberals attacking liberals, help.

I may be a self-hating liberal, but I don't need libs to contribute to that hate.

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

I was just razzing you on that part Malko. :)

I think it's most healthy to just ignore the noise.

[–] Stratego (29521) 5 years ago

It seems you agree with that sentiment towards these specific liberals, though? Maybe join the right in mocking them, so they can see that a liberal doesn't necessarily agree with these views either.

[–] ctwdidswej (212) 5 years ago

Ask Hillary Clinton.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

The best President America never had. 😞

[–] actionkamen (23176) 5 years ago

Or the best almost-president America ever had.

[–] kspkap (13169) 5 years ago

🤣🤣🤣🤣 Hip Hip Hooray! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[–] Padeen (6459) 5 years ago

Just curious, how long have you been a vegan? As mentioned in another thread, I tried it for 8 months and couldn't picture myself doing it long term. However, its always a good idea to add more plant foods into your diet. With summer coming, I'm looking forward to planting the garden.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I've been a vegetarian for 27 years, I've been a casual vegan for 18 years, and I've been a strict vegan for three years (prior to 2016 I was still eating foods that contained honey, and although I wasn't buying milk, cheese or eggs, I couldn't guarantee that any of the ready-meals I was buying was 100% dairy-free - now I check to make sure everything I buy, including alcohol, has the vegan seal of approval). The one thing I still fall down on is fruit juices. They're not made with any animal products per se, but fruits are often rubbed with shellac, a resin produced by bugs, to glaze fruit.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I bet you are craving a full English breakfast.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Not after 27 years.

And there are some places in the UK that do a great vegan version of the full English breakfast.

[–] ShogunofYonkers (73528) 5 years ago

Please describe this...I'll be respectful

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Describe what?

There are places that serve beans, hash browns, fried tomatoes, mushrooms, along with vegan sausages as an English Breakfast.

[–] ShogunofYonkers (73528) 5 years ago

Describe that silly goose!

It does sound pretty good...with a side of bacon:)

[–] db20db (16568) 5 years ago

...with a side of bacon

Makes me think of the standard fare of an American breakfast of ham and eggs where the chicken was only involved but the pig was committed.

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 5 years ago

Yay bacon!

😎

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

can they make fake fish and chips ??

[–] Padeen (6459) 5 years ago

I wouldn't fret about little things like shellac. Technically, all modern food production results in the death of small animals and insects, especially during crop harvesting. I doubt this can be avoided unless you grow you own food and take extreme measures to make sure nothing dies, but that doesn't seem like a realistic approach for the average person. If your practicing strict veganism, I would be satisfied with that.

Try jackfruit if you can find it. Prepared properly, it has a similar texture to meat. "Pulled jackfruit" is very popular with vegans.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Thanks Padeen. That means a lot to me. 🙂

You're right. Sadly most food production, including vegetable and fruit harvests, inadvertently result in the deaths of insects and small animals. It's practically impossible to avoid.

That's why I still define myself as a 'vegan' despite the whole fruit juice thing, but in all other respects I'm avoiding anything that is manufactured via animal products.

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

Wait, are you a Jainist?

If you are, then I understand and please forgive me for intruding on your religious beliefs.

I'm not vegan, but I'm coming at this as a secular humanist. You really shouldn't be worried about insects when insects do not feel pain. They do not have sufficiently advanced nervous systems to be sentient beings.

But if you're a Jainist, I understand.

[–] Padeen (6459) 5 years ago

I've never heard to the term Jainism, but it reminds me of that scene from "Seven Years in Tibet" where the monks were worried about harming worms while constructing the movie theater.

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

I just remember Malko mentioning he was a pacifist and along with his seeming empathy for bugs I thought he might be a Jain.

But yeah, Jains are vehemently non-violent to the point where even doing violence to bugs is against their religious beliefs. For this reason old school Jains are forbidden to eat at night for fear they might accidentally swallow a bug.

[–] snepts (11123) 5 years ago

This past decade or so, I'm more inclined to live trap a bug in my house rather than squash it. If it is small and doesn't look threatening. sometimes I'll just ignore it and hope it finds a cozy home and doesn't skulk around. I have run water in the shower to get rid of a bug sometimes, and I feel a little bad about it, but seriously, I was taking a shower. I take my glasses off before entering the shower, so I may not notice anything right away.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I don't recall saying I was a pacifist.

I don't think I would necessarily describe myself that way.

In theory I don't think we have the right to take another life away, but in some instances it may be necessary to protect the innocent or larger numbers of people.

And I've come close to physically confronting people. Although I'd hate to do anyone any lasting pain, I have been prepared for a fight before (in the sense that in occasionally having to stand up to mistreatment towards myself and others I've been mentally prepared to physically defend myself - I almost came to blows with a guy who nearly ran me over a couple of years back).

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

You're right, I was momentarily confusing dteam6 telling me he was a pacifist for something you said. My mistake.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

To be clear, I don't mind being confused for a pacifist. There are worse things to be labelled. But, for better or worse, I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply to me.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I am not a Jainist.

But my understanding is that insects are sentient and do feel pain.

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

Ah so you're Buddhist? Only Buddhists believe insects sentient so that's your religious belief.

Biological science doesn't recognize the sentience of insects because their neurology just isn't developed enough. You have to be able to feel emotion to be sentient and insects don't have that capacity.

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 5 years ago

You are of course free to be a vegan, but is is not good for you. Please check out this article which points out 10 dangers of a vegan diet:

https://butternutrition.com/10-vegan-diet-dangers/

I myself, LOVE meat, especially Prime Rib, which is what I had for dinner. And it was WONDERFUL!

😎

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 5 years ago

Actually a vegan diet is not good for you. Please check out this article which describes 10 dangers of a vegan diet:

https://butternutrition.com/10-vegan-diet-dangers/

😎

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 5 years ago

Putting all the articles and their psychology aside, a vegan diet is not good for you. Please check out this article which lists 10 dangers of a vegan diet:

https://butternutrition.com/10-vegan-diet-dangers/

😎

[–] Padeen (6459) 5 years ago

With proper research and commitment to eating a wide variety of plant based, whole foods, to the vegan lifestyle in certainly can be done in a healthy fashion. For any naysayers, read the "China Study: The Most Comprehensive Study of Nutrition Ever Conducted And the Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss, And Long-term Health"
https://www.amazon.com/China-Study-Comprehensive-Nutrition-Implications/dp/1932100660

With that said, its cool that article you linked mentioned Weston A Price. He research into the diets of indigenous peoples is fascinating. We really need to go back to our roots and ditch the processed food that is killing us all slowly.

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 5 years ago

Okay then.

😎

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 5 years ago

But then again, here is another article which pointing out the dangers of a vegan diet:

https://www.cleaneatingkitchen.com/vegan-diet-dangers-health/

😎

[–] Padeen (6459) 5 years ago

I'm highly skeptical of a dietician who doesn't even seem to know the difference between Inflammatory Bowel Disease and Irritable Bowel Syndrome. One is autoimmune and can lead colon cancer and removal, while the other is only a minor annoyance. The fact that the author thinks a vegan diet is even related to either is astounding. Technically, meat causes inflammation in the body, while a plant based diet is proven to be anti-inflammatory.

Here's a good article. Like I've been saying, a healthy vegan diet is possible, but it takes a lot of planning and commitment.
https://www.livestrong.com/article/251074-risks-of-vegan-diets/

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 5 years ago

Okay then.

😎

[–] Padeen (6459) 5 years ago

I've taken great interest in diet since I suffer from a GI condition. It strange that Western countries have the highest rate of autoimmune digestive diseases, while developing nations have the lowest. Even India and China, who are becoming more westernized, are seeing a drastic spike in gut diseases such as crohns and ulcerative colitis. I suspect it might be all of the antibiotics and hormones that are pumped into animals nowadays. These diseases were non existent just 100 years ago.

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 5 years ago

That is a definite possibility. Also there are some diseases which were deadly killers just 50 years ago have now been eradicated.

😎

[–] ctwdidswej (212) 5 years ago

Plant based diet isn't anti-inflammatory. No diet is. Digestion is an inflammatory process.

Let's look at one of the main differences in the composition of different types of food. Vegetable oil is mostly polyunsaturated omega 6. That's the most inflammatory kind. We're overloaded with this stuff because it's used in everything that comes in a package. Animal fat, as well as fat from fruits like olives avocados and coconuts, are mostly monounsaturated or saturated. Step back a moment. What about macronutrient ratios? Any sugar in meat? That's even more inflammatory. No, no carbs at all.

[–] ctwdidswej (212) 5 years ago

The China Study is a fraud. There are two part. The first is epidemiological which is not scientific and not even worth talking about. The second is that trope about animal protein "turning on" cancer and plant protein "turning off" cancer. They fed aflatoxin to a bunch of rats, and then fed animal protein to one group and plant protein to another. The rats fed animal protein got cancer. The rats fed plant protein didn't. Want to know why? The rats fed plant protein died before they could get cancer.

When you eat protein, your body breaks them down into all the different amino acids. Anmial proteins are "complete" meaning they have all the different amino acids you need to live. Plant protein is incomplete. You couldn't live on just soy or just wheat. You'd have to eat a combination. Tumors can't survive, but neither can you. Great way to manipulate research, huh?

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/the-china-study-myth/

[–] GreenGoblinsOck8 (7496) 5 years ago

I couldn't be a vegan. I had my colon and large intestine taken out in December of 2014 and since have been unable to eat raw vegetables. They give me a stomach ache. So I have to cook my vegetables which reduces the nutrients of them. Therefore I need meat and dairy to get the protein I need. I can eat some nuts but I would get sick of eating them so often. Plus too many nuts effects my stomach too. Meat and dairy don't though.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

That's fine.

I'm not lecturing or proselytizing here.

[–] Padeen (6459) 5 years ago

Colitis?

[–] GreenGoblinsOck8 (7496) 5 years ago

No. Mainly just years and years of suffering constipation. Lead to a knot in my large intestine. I have had constipation problems since I was a kid.