Do you believe in the death penalty? - General Discussion Discussion

[–] ShogunofYonkers (71777) 5 years ago

Horrible to hear of this...just awful
I skip 'The News' because of this sort of thing

I do not support the death penalty because we have gotten it all wrong plenty of times in the past, the legal system is pretty screwed up and innocent men have died on my dollar

If evidence or testimony turns up 10 years after we execute a guy that clears him how do we fix that?
I do believe in life sentences, bread and water in a tiny cell, very little yard time...I harbor no sympathy for dangerous criminals (these sorts are beneath contempt and I hope they suffer every day for the killings, arsons and rapes they committed)

I just could never support the Death Penalty...we will surely screw up again and kill an innocent man

reply

[–] Padeen (6459) 5 years ago

I agree that the death penalty by American standards is ridiculous and that we use it to loosely, but I think those caught red handed or have confessed to the worst of the worst crimes need to be put to death.

Morocco hasn't used the death penalty since the early 90's, but from articles I've read, many in the country are outraged and are calling for their execution. Having seen the video, life in prison, in a tiny cell is too good for them. It is absolutely the most heinous thing I have seen.

reply

[–] ShogunofYonkers (71777) 5 years ago

I'm no expert but will offer this:
Shoving a monster in a tiny, cold and poorly lit cement room for the remainder of his useless life with a meager diet and no hope of joy or freedom is even more just and punishing than a noose
The very worst criminals deserve a very long time to reflect on what they did, death is too easy

reply

[–] Padeen (6459) 5 years ago

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I'm against prisoners being held in a cell for 23 hours a day. Prison should be more about rehabilitation than punishment. And if the person did something so bad that they cannot be rehabilitated, this is where the death penalty comes into play. Its costs the tax payers $30,000 and up to $60,000 a year to incarcerate an inmate.

reply

[–] TexasJack (12515) 5 years ago

Complete isolation, temperature and diet extremes are all what I would consider "cruel and unusual punishment". There is a basic human dignity that the state may never violate, whatever the circumstances.

reply

[–] jriley555 (7048) 5 years ago

agree. death is the most just, economical and humane way to dispatch vermin.

i take no satisfaction from torturing vermin. dont get the thought process at all.

as already stated, share those concerns about corrupt adminstration which might be a deal-breaker in practice, but in essense, the death penalty is the most fitting for wanton murder, generally.

reply

[–] ShogunofYonkers (71777) 5 years ago

I appreciate your kind nature but I believe many of the real maniacs can never be fixed...the sorts that can't earn or go about their business without going mad-dog on the rest of us are beyond help and garner no pity...plenty of them!
Arsonists, rapers and homicidal lunatics can all rot in a cement box with an unmarked hole to look foward to as far as I'm concerned
Some men are just broken and will never be repaired

Death penalty cases rack up hundreds of thousands in costs to the coffers...appeals drag on for ages
Better to let the real creeps fade away in a cell imo

reply

[–] somesunnyday (2078) 5 years ago

"Having seen the video" I honestly don't know how you could watch that

reply

[–] Padeen (6459) 5 years ago

It was hard, but I felt like I needed a visual understanding of how someone could be so evil. It's similar to watching a documentary on the Holocaust, seeing the bodies of the Concentration Camp victims.

There was a poll a few years ago in England about one of the ISIS beheadings and over a million people said the watched it.

reply

[–] TexasJack (12515) 5 years ago

I agree with you. It's important to maintain a healthy skepticism of the justice system, because it does fail periodically.

reply

[–] ShogunofYonkers (71777) 5 years ago

It certainly does!
The human error factor I can accept but when corruption and political pressure invade the legal system I am not putting any faith in it

reply

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I share your view.

reply

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

If it weren't for the death penalty, those innocent people would still be alive. That is the main reason why I am against the DP.

reply

[–] ShogunofYonkers (71777) 5 years ago

Agreed
We mean well but mistakes happen pretty often...I'd rather not risk killing an innocent man

reply

[–] captainbucky (15252) 5 years ago

I quit movie chat

reply

[–] jriley555 (7048) 5 years ago

yes. though pretty left in many areas, i find the idea of killing scum of the earth both just and satisfying, just as most relatives/friends of their victims must.

its odd to me that this is such a minority view. probably an outcome of 20th century genocide.

the fact that many jurisdictions are utterly corrupt must, however, give pause. many don't deserve that power. and so i am ambivalent about it as broad-based policy in view of the calculated abuses by investigators/prosecutors/judges easily found on the web.

reply

[–] Padeen (6459) 5 years ago

Your last point is a good point. I find it promising that our county is finally working on Criminal Justice Reform and so far it seems to have bipartisan support.

reply

[–] snepts (11123) 5 years ago

Believe in the Death Penalty? Do you mean like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny? If so, then yes. I'm pretty sure the Death Penalty is out there doing it's thing. Now do I SUPPORT the Death Penalty? That's something different.

reply

[–] Padeen (6459) 5 years ago

Why not answer the question instead of being an smart ass? You clearly knew what I meant.

reply

[–] Stratego (29252) 5 years ago

I believe in the death penalty if the evidence is strong enough.

reply

[–] snepts (11123) 5 years ago

My apologies. I'm against the Death Penalty. I don't see what purpose it serves, it's inhumane and cruel, it's expensive as the convict can fight it ad infinitum. I'm not into an eye for an eye, and we can't take back what's been done to the victim. I don't see how anybody other than the victim's family would derive any satisfaction from seeing another person die at the hands of the state. That idiotic senator from Mississippi who said she'd take a front row seat at a public hanging should be forced to pull the switch at the next execution which should be any day now. And those idiots in MS voted her in again !

reply

[–] Stratego (29252) 5 years ago

Why are you replying to me? You already stated your opinion and I said nothing against it.

I support the death penalty and I won't apologize. Some crimes are so horrible, I'd like the perpetrators to suffer. It's called having empathy for the victim. And I think it would give great satisfaction to the families of many victims. I also don't like having to pay to keep them in prison for the rest of their lives.

reply

[–] db20db (16209) 5 years ago

I followed this recent case quite closely over the past several months. https://www.aetv.com/real-crime/chris-watts-murder-case-discovery-files-revelations. It's one of the most heinous and heartbreaking I've encountered in awhile and I watch a lot of true crime stories.

The prosecutors passionately wanted the death penalty, but get this... they were talked out of it by the family of the victims. I watched the live sentencing hearing which included the victim impact statements of the surviving family members. It was some of the most riveting live television I've ever seen.

The guy is in his mid 30s, physical prime for a man and will have decades to reflect on his crime while constantly looking over his shoulder in prison. It was clearly stated that he would be housed in a prison out of state because his life would surely be in danger. Inmate justice is barbaric, in no way comparable to the humane justice the state would have dispensed.

reply

[–] Stratego (29252) 5 years ago

How considerate of them to move him out of state...

reply

[–] db20db (16209) 5 years ago

Well, that very strategy directly led to the recent, highly publicized gangland execution of the infamous Whitey Bulger. Don't underestimate the power of the prison grapevine.

reply

[–] Stratego (29252) 5 years ago

Meh, it doesn't happen often enough. And wasn't Bulger's murder orchestrated by a mafia hitman? Too many criminals seem to enjoy their lives in prison.

reply

[–] db20db (16209) 5 years ago

Personally, I like the idea of a prisoner becoming complacent for awhile and then suddenly getting his brains beat out. And believe me, I know from firsthand knowledge, that type of justice is dispensed more often than John Q. Citizen is aware of.

reply

[–] Stratego (29252) 5 years ago

Well, I just looked up some pedo who murdered two kids and got the death penalty. He's still happily living in prison 15 years later.

reply

[–] jriley555 (7048) 5 years ago

you possibly know this already, but.....

pedos/rapists/child/woman abusers/murderers get put into special segregated units. they don't do general population. or if they do, the fix is in.

when you go into jail/prison, you will be asked by other inmates about your case, be required to provide documentation concerning it, so you can be 'assessed' per the prison population.

any of the above who don't opt for segregation have targets on their back.

there is no harsher judge than a thug.

reply

[–] Stratego (29252) 5 years ago

Yes, and they probably have a good time together in their segregated unit.

reply

[–] snepts (11123) 5 years ago

I just dropped into the wrong post. My apologies, and this TO you.
And I believe it's cheaper to house them than take up the legal system's time and $$ to keep up with their appeals. I might be wrong on this count, so we'd have to investigate. Not like someone is sentenced to die in one day and it's all over.
But no one pays attention to my arguments, so "shrug?"

reply

[–] Stratego (29252) 5 years ago

Alrighty then.👍

reply

[–] ShogunofYonkers (71777) 5 years ago

I pay attention to you and your opinions and I tend to agree with you much of the time snepts...you often have things right

I would be all in on an 'eye for an eye' system wherin we knocked off the really vile criminals with two bullets to the head but I just know we would make a mistake and waste a good man at some point...some criminal cases are based on shaky 'evidence' and there are certainly innocent guys behind bars...better we sort it out later than execute them
NO death penalty is my vote
Life term with miserable conditions bereft of hope seems fitting for the worst of the worst

reply

[–] snepts (11123) 5 years ago

Why two bullets? Is the second for the enjoyment value?

reply

[–] ShogunofYonkers (71777) 5 years ago

The first round shuts down the brain...death.

The second is to make sure

Silly question from a smart fellow!

reply

[–] snepts (11123) 5 years ago

If I don't ponder the deeper questions when it comes to execution by bullet(s), that's fine with me.
This is not directed at you or anyone in particular, but I definitely don't expect anyone to budge on their DP feelings. I'm not a young person, this debate has been going on for years and it's very emotional. I'm glad I haven't any personal reason to consider it a just action for our government to be involved with.

reply

[–] Padeen (6459) 5 years ago

Inhumane and cruel? So you don't think Timothy McVeigh should have been put to death? He murdered 160 people, many of which were children. How about that sick fuck that shot up a Youth Summer Camp in Norway killing dozens? How about War Criminals? Some people are pure evil and don't deserve to live.

reply

[–] snepts (11123) 5 years ago

You asked me to post in a serious fashion. I think I made all my points therein. Whether people "deserve" to live doesn't matter. They DO live. If you want to be the person to gun down these criminals, petition for the job. It's one thing to be outraged about a crime, it's another to inflict frontier justice. We pride ourselves in being civilized, so walk the walk, I say. We can't change the past, and I don't think the DP deters people from heinous crime. Have I made myself plain?

reply

[–] Padeen (6459) 5 years ago

No ones talking about frontier justice and I agree the DP doesn't deter heinous crimes, but I think that's a poor reason to think it has no place in society. As I said in my original post, I only support the death penalty in extreme circumstances.

You've made yourself clear after you answer this question: Was it wrong to execute Timothy McVeigh for mass murdering innocent people?

reply

[–] db20db (16209) 5 years ago

McVeigh got to a point where he was pleading to be executed.

I've visited the memorial site in OKC. There is a display in the museum where a single baby's booty from the daycare center is on a small pedestal, surrounded by the twisted steel and chunks of concrete, left untouched from the day of the blast. It's incredibly heart-rending!

He got off easy compared to the untold human suffering he caused.

reply

[–] Padeen (6459) 5 years ago

He died the way he wanted to - at the center of attention.

I'm sure it was heart-rending. I was a young kid and still remember it vividly.

reply

[–] ShogunofYonkers (71777) 5 years ago

Heavy...I would not want to see that

reply

[–] snepts (11123) 5 years ago

Yes, it was wrong. We put ourselves at the level of the murderer when we choose to "murder" an individual who can be contained in other ways.
If you derive pleasure at the idea that someone's life has been snuffed, perhaps there are open jobs as executioner. I'm sorry if that sounds snide, but if people think we should put people to death, I think they should seriously be ready and able to execute the sentence.

reply

[–] Padeen (6459) 5 years ago

Sorry. But I think the notion the terrorists deserve leniency is sick. McVeigh was a sick puppy and his execution was the right thing to do.
And the only time I've ever derived pleasure from someones death is when Seal Team Six took out that piece of shit bin Laden. But hey, maybe we could have contained him in another way.

In case you didn't know, you need to be an employee of a State or Federal prison to be an executioner. It's not the public's job to play that role.

reply

[–] snepts (11123) 5 years ago

That's rather convenient for you, isn't it? Like I said, you can always apply for the job.
So you DID derive pleasure from bin Laden's death at the hands of the US on foreign soil, but you didn't for McVeigh here in ... Oklahoma? Sounds a bit arbitrary. Bin Laden didn't get a trial, McVeigh did. Is that how you want it to go?

reply

[–] Padeen (6459) 5 years ago

Just because I support the death penalty for the worst of the worst doesn't mean I need to go work in a prison lol. Ya, I was gleeful when I heard about Bin Ladens death. You weren't? I'm sure many of the families who lost loved ones were as well, including the two I know personally.

I was young when OKC happened and didn't have those kinds of feelings. As mentioned before, I vividly remember the news footage, but I don't think I understood the extent of what happened. 9/11 on the other hand was more personal for me.

Bin Laden didn't deserve a trial, but his burial at sea followed Traditional Islamic Procedures. How many of his victims got their last rights?

reply

[–] snepts (11123) 5 years ago

From my view, the magnitude of the perpetrator's crime is not what's driving the DP, nor are my personal feelings. We teach our children it's wrong to kill, then create exceptions. I don't know how you can with a straight face say anyone does not deserve a trial. I'm glad OBL had a burial at sea simply to not inflame more Muslim hate for the Western world. I truly don't see how anyone's quality of life will improve knowing the criminal has been put to death. If all we focus on is revenge and retribution, we aren't much better than the murderer. Many faiths refuse to take life under any circumstances. It's called turning the other cheek, doing unto others as you would have them do unto you.
And no, you needen't work in a prison, just be willing to pull the switch, push the plunger, put the noose around the neck, if you are so full of blood-lust that you want to see someone die. Of course the victims of heinous crimes had their rights stripped from them, but treating the perp like an animal is thinking two wrongs make a right. We, especially in the West, are better than that.

reply

[–] Padeen (6459) 5 years ago

We're not going to agree, so lets end it. I'm curious though, is this a religion thing for you?

reply

[–] snepts (11123) 5 years ago

Nope. It's Phil-O-So-Phy with a bit of Karma and Social Engineering tossed in.
I was never expecting you to agree, but I hoped you'd see the merits of my position.
We must be anti-Death to hope others don't want to take lives.

reply

[–] jriley555 (7048) 5 years ago

that's it. if the evidence is strong enough. not if this particular murder strikes me as more particularly heinous than some others because of the age/race/gender/quantity/politics of the victim(s) or the murderer(s).

shaky evidence? history of corruption/wrongful convictions/police brutality in county PD/Prosecutors/Judges, eye-witness testimony of strangers without forensic corroboration, circumstantial evidence not binding suspect directly to the crime.

the death penalty should be out of bounds for any minor at the time of the crime, without exception.

the standard should be guilt beyond any doubt. in which case, guilt for first degree murder (with malice aforethought) should routinely receive the death penalty.

the appeals process can/should be streamlined for capital cases.

reply

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I do believe in the death penalty especially for serial killers and terrorists. Not for circumstantial cases. Paul Bernardo and his lovely wife Karla Homolka would be first on my list for the gallows. Canada will never bring it back.

reply

[–] Padeen (6459) 5 years ago

I had to look them up. My point exactly - they are the epitome of evil and without a doubt guilty.

reply

[–] Stratego (29252) 5 years ago

I'm so disgusted by those two. I can't believe she's walking around free!

reply

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

She has kids of her own. Makes my blood boil when I think of how the justice system botched that case. Bernardo and I almost crossed paths in life. He was born in 1964 and I was born in 1963. We both studied accounting at the University of Toronto at the same time although Bernardo didn't graduate. I never met him but I know people who did. They said he was very quiet and creepy. No surprise.

reply

[–] Stratego (29252) 5 years ago

I'm sure you were not born in 1983!

He looks like a total creep, she has to be fucked up herself to have ever fallen for him.

reply

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

1963. D'oh!

reply

[–] slimone (7996) 5 years ago

I'm torn between the death penalty and jail time.

reply

[–] BillHicksFan (10103) 5 years ago

"You gotta believe in the death penalty. How else are they going to learn?"
-Mort Sahl

reply

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 5 years ago

Yes, definitely.

😐

reply