MovieChat Forums > Politics > Its a good thing modern day Dems weren't...

Its a good thing modern day Dems weren't around during the Boston Tea Party


Or during the American Revolution. George Washington would be put in jail as a traitor.

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Actually, they would have run crying back to King George III while leaving trails of urine in their wake. The whole lot of them are cowards and only get away with their shit because they have the muscle to back it up now. They wouldn't have stood a chance against Washington. He was not the type to put up with people's shit.

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I mean jsut look at all the former British western countries and seeing how much better and stable they are than america. America probably should have stayed with england, rather than becoming a dysfunctional corrupt two party corporatocracy.

-Slavery would have been ended without the civil war, leading to a less divided North and South

-a parliamentary system would have led to a far more stable, less corrupt multiparty political system where americans were actually represented.

-the US would have been had a smaller population but also far more culturally homogeneous and stable.

-no second amendement and common sense gun laws means your kids wouldnt be getting shot up every few weeks.

all this sounds so horrible i know...

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Move to England and let us know how much taxes you will be paying.

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1. this was about the colonies legacies, not England you idiot. you couldnt even stay on topic for a minute your brain is so fried.

2. i cant speak for england but ive heard you clowns say the same about Canada and destroyed you idiots before. depending on state tax (because it varies so widely) as well as provincial tax (again varies widely) you pay about the same when you factor in federal tax. but then you guys may have to pay some or all of your own health insurance, which is included in our taxes.

so ya enjoy your corporatocracy shithole. just be careful your kids school doesnt get shot up, or you get in a road rage disagreeing and the guy sprays your car with bullets, or some unaccountable poorly trained cop decides to make an example of you.

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What are you babbling about? Canada?

This is Bidens America, what did you expect? He likes when kids bounce on his lap.

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wow you really are fried.

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BDS!

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BDS!


https://www.dictionary.com/e/acronyms/tds/

https://www.dictionary.com/e/acronyms/bds/

It's not a thing. Unless the B stands for B1cKsurN! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣

________________________
"When fascism comes to America, it will come in the name of 'Liberalism'."
-President Ronald Reagan

https://youtube.com/shorts/jPbGsvoNKMw?feature=share

Leftists always lie.
Wokeness is Fascism+Hypocrisy.

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Less free speech in Canada. For the rest - look if you want to correct your mistake of 1776 we'd be pleased to have you back. Imagine what we could have done together!

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👑King George III did nothin' wrong.👑

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impeach gorge!

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Washington was a Putin puppet.

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Life was infinitely better when modern days didn't exist. All of todays problems are from them.

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You have it backwards. The major thematic difference between the parties right now is populist faith in celebrity (right-wing) versus meritocracy of ideas (left-wing).

This means Republicans are coalescing around the messiah figure, the savior, the individualistic captain-of-industry. You see it as they place on a pedestal, the billionaire figures such a Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Zuckerberg, and the showman-in-chief, Trump.

It’s also why you are touting George Washington as a literal “father of our country” instead of realizing that, yes, he was a competent military leader, but the Revolution itself was won through ideas, camaraderie, debate, diversity and most importantly, A STELLAR PUBLIC RELATIONS CAMPAIGN.

Everyone’s best skills were utilized and where they were weak, they counted on their countrymen to carry the slack. John Adams had a great strategic mind, but lacked charisma. Jefferson was a poor orator, but inspirational writer. Ben Franklin used his alliances in France to stifle the British, etc.

Not one of them said it was all about them… that only they can do it… and to appoint or elect them because America would “win” so much that you’ll be “tired of winning.”

Washington himself, popular with his troops all throughout the colonies, could have anoited himself monarch, even, but didn’t. He crafted a divided cabinet, played mediator, listened to ideas, didn’t fire those who challenged him, served two terms for the sake of stability, and was done.

MAGA are the modern day American Tories, loyal to the end to their flamboyant Mad King, a symbol—far removed from the action. Backward, conservative, tyrannical, orange.

Their lenses are so skewed, they even project their own worldview onto Democrats. How often do we hear, oh, Barack Obama was a celebrity candidate? No.

Liberals didn’t see that… they don’t vote like MAGA simpletons.

1/2

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salty liberal tears! lol

https://youtu.be/UR_WopJ53Go

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2/2 CONT’d

Obama = Brilliant orator, community organizer, Constitutional scholar, Professor, diverse, progressive, team player, funny, not prone to scandal and controversy. Executive material! He lead that way! Biden, too.

The Democratic Party has been instituting a multi-generational political tactic that values and promotes meritocracy as the American standard. Even the rabble-rouser citizens on the left are not beholden to individual politicians, but rather issues. BLM, Occupy, Dreamers, MeToo, PussyHats, etc. You think these people all worship Biden, the person, or any political figure? Not like the Proud Boys, who were literally Trump’s own brown boot militia thug coalition for him to sic on the Capitol in insurrection. The attempted coup was totalitarian in nature. Again, the Mad King grabbing at his empire.

Listen to yourselves, MovieChat MAGAphiles. You’re the Redcoats who represent tyranny, and your entire party leadership has been promoting cultish anti-Democratic principles for quite a long time now.

I basically think you should fuck off outta here before we toss *you* in Boston Harbor.

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excellent analysis!

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Much appreciated. I enjoy your stuff, too. Overall, though, this place probably has more idiots than Truth Social even. It's so sad how the Right has lost their way, and even sadder that they think people are buying their garbage.

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In one of the greatest political upsets in U.S. political history, Republican Donald Trump defeated 2 time loser Democrat Hillary Clinton early Wednesday and will become the 45th president of the United States in January. Trump stunned the favored-Clinton by winning several key states that traditionally vote Democratic.

https://youtu.be/RO-LR_fEwfQ

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The salty tears are so often yours… in desperation, being projected onto your opponents. Dems don’t have time for your weepy nonsense. We are stoic, invested, forward-looking, but not you… you’re like a pro-wrestling spectator and it’s the only way you can respond to events.

Here you are, sadly, still celebrating any win you can grasp at, even electoral flukes like 2016 where millions of surplus votes for the losing candidate didn’t matter because those families didn’t live in the backwoods of Wisconsin or Pennsylvania where Trump once held a MAGA rally.

Trump may have sat in the office, but he never had the power.

Knowledge is Power.

He, and his appointees, had no insight into Emergency Action Plans for Pandemic response. Events unfolded that were anticipated by prior administrations—one’s dedicated to public service. Scary “establishment” leaders like Hillary Clinton.

The Donald could have stood on the shoulders of geniuses and followed their crisis playbook… but you see, he must have had an extra long routine fixing his tanlines in the hair-and-makeup dept. that day… and, of course, he’s not a big reader:

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/6819268/Pandemic-Playbook.pdf

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👍🗽👍

Late to the "Party" but you deserved a belated 2-Thumbs up.

I doubt many MAGAs read your pithy tomes as there are just not enough monosyllabic words for them. 😉

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The American Revolution was lead by Liberals living in the Northern states like Boston, Massachusetts and Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

Conservatives in the South were originally Loyalists against the war and changed their minds later when they saw an opportunity to spread slavery to new territory. The British didn't want colonists expanding into Indian territory.

If the British had won, slavery would've ended sooner and the colonists would've been forbidden to continually steal Native-American land. We would've had a better form of government instead of the Electoral College and unfair Senate:

"California has 2 senators to represent 40 million citizens while 23 smaller states have 46 senators to represent 40 million citizens"
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F33gvjfqg5ug21.jpg

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Your emphasis on slavery at this point in time is incorrect. It existed in the colonies, everywhere, sure, but the cotton gin DIDN'T yet. Therefore you are inserting mid-19th century values into the late Enlightenment period of 1750-1815. You need to look at the comparative population of enslaved Africans for these two distinct time periods, and their individual cost per slave to understand how much the peculiar institution changed in the intervening years. It, then, only became a prime motivating factor in Southern economy later on. Plus, the British were the ones importing all the cotton!

It didn't even end in Britain until 1833, so why and how colonialists would have the foresight that you attribute to them is a mystery to me.

The British suck, and all their controlled colonies sucked. They treated people terribly worldwide because of the pathetic "white man's burden" superiority complex.

If Washington & the Continential Congress hadn't whooped their crumpet-scarfing ass, then Andrew Jackson surely would have in post-1812... and he DID.

America is a diverse, melting pot nation, and we like it that way. Just because our Native neighbors weren't quite fully pacified yet, doesn't mean they are not our welcome citizens. In addition to that, their culture didn't even include the concept of land-ownership! Relocation was simply to aid in transition and quash violence, and everything worked out beautifully. Blacks, too. Where are the colored prime ministers of U.K., huh?

If Britain had blacks and indians in London en masse prior to 1900, then Jack the Ripper would have strung them with their own entrails around their necks, and lynched them from Big Ben while Queen Victoria saluted. I'd watch out for them if I were you. Any man who needs a tea-time break is covering up for some deep-seated dark thoughts. It's always the quiet and polite ones to worry about.

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It didn't even end in Britain until 1833, so why and how colonialists would have the foresight that you attribute to them is a mystery to me.

King George III himself may not have expressed explicit intent to abolish slavery in the American colonies, however, there were debates and legal cases happening around this time that challenged the institution of slavery.

Importantly, in England, the Somerset Case of 1772 had ruled that chattel slavery was unsupported by the common law in England and Wales. This led to a degree of anxiety among American slaveholders, even though the ruling did not apply to colonies. While the ruling was specific to England and Wales and did not apply directly to the colonies, it caused considerable discussion and anxiety among slaveholders in the American colonies. The Somerset decision fueled debates about the morality and legality of slavery and emboldened those arguing for abolition. American slaveholders, many of whom had ties to or resided for periods in England, saw the ruling as a potential threat to the institution of slavery in the colonies, fearing that similar arguments could be applied there.

Furthermore, the colonies desire to maintain the institution of slavery was a significant factor in their decision to break from Britain, as emphasized in the U.S. Declaration of Independence where they accused King George III of inciting slave rebellions. The American Revolution did play a part in solidifying slavery, especially in the Southern states, and it have a profound effect on the development of the United States and the persistent issue of racial inequality.

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You are choosing to interpret obscure details as if they were, individually, causing a worldview-shaping moment on the American psyche, and you're doing it at the expense of "taxation without representation" and the "Boston Massacre".

Colonial rebels surely used whatever uniting principles they could to recruit our Southern friends to the Independence cause. United we Stand, Divided we Fall. However, the fact remains... no plantation economy = slavery a secondary issue during Revolutionary times.

When Keelai was discussing expansion westward, he's thinking of the Compromises in the States and Terrorities leading up to the Civil War.

Plus, it must be remembered that the Confederacy was actively courting the British in support, militarily of their movement, particularly with regard to the "Yankee blockade" and that their export of cotton from America to Britain was 80% of their supply inventory and 12% of their national income.

Perhaps it benefits your line of thinking to make this a morality play, but it's not. It's all business. The dominos could have fell in myriad ways in the preceding centuries, but that doesn't change the fact that real Americans don't want, and never wanted, Kings & Queens from the tiny island of extended tentacles on our currency, at our ports, or in our halls of power.

Trump supporters are the closest we've had to such despotism, and that brings us back to the discussion at hand. MAGA = Revolutionary Tories. Confused & backwards hicks like Bubbathegut, OP, trying to obscure the fact that he's playing for the wrong team... traitors over patriots.

Re-elect Joe Biden, 2024

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You are choosing to interpret obscure details as if they were, individually, causing a worldview-shaping moment on the American psyche.

The Sommerset case is hardly an obscure detail, and it did indeed shape the opinion of many slave-holders in the colonies.


and you're doing it at the expense of "taxation without representation" and the "Boston Massacre".


Your original claim to Keelai was that the colonialists would not have had the foresight over Britains changing view on slavery. I’m providing supporting evidence that not only could they have had that foresight, but that indeed they did.


the fact remains... no plantation economy = slavery a secondary issue during Revolutionary times.


Suggesting that slavery was only a secondary issue during the Revolutionary war is an oversimplification. There were indeed concerns about British interference with the institution, and these concerns were compounded by events such as the Somerset Case and the Dunmore Proclamation.


Perhaps it benefits your line of thinking to make this a morality play, but it's not. It's all business.”


I’m not making it a morality play in the slightest. I agree that the causes of the Revolutionary war were in fact 100% all business. However, to argue that the issue of slavery was purely a matter of business overlooks the deep moral divisions it caused within the country.


Trump supporters are the closest we've had to such despotism, and that brings us back to the discussion at hand. MAGA = Revolutionary Tories.

Just for clarity, I’m not MAGA nor a Trump supporter in the slightest.

I believe we simply have a different view, a gentlemen’s disagreement if you will, on some of the causality factors that led to the American Revolution.

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Fair enough. I appreciate your thoughtful responses. If some land-and-slave owners in the 1770s accidentally fell on the right side of history, so be it. I just don't believe they had the strength of Washington's Army at Yorktown, their courage at Bunker Hill, or their preserverence during winter encampment at Valley Forge. Politcal savvy of 1st Continential Congress, etc.

I often write with concern about the readers-in-general apart from our gentlemen's discussion. The Political Correctness & identity politics of today often hinder mental fortitude. I'm sick of hearing about slavery. It has existed in some form throughout history amongst all of human civilization & that's a shame. It doesn't anymore in actuality, but it has a lasting effect. To continue to identify with the slave, a deceased population, with an overabundance of empathy will foster real people living today w/ the slave mentality.

Reformed MAGAphiles from January 6th have actually spoken out, and claimed it was a cult and they felt they had no control of their actions during insurrection. To some extent, I believe it! They were slaves to Trump. Pawns with no agency. The same is probably true for the sad folks who are here day-in and day-out with tens of thousands of MC posts parroting MAGA talking points about "wokeness" or whatever else.

This probably can happen on the opposing side with the Left hiding in their safe spaces, but I see far less evidence of the political leadership actually trying to capitalize on this. The Democrats, along with former moderate Republicans, are officially united as a party of "pull yourself up by your boot straps" and take charge of your life. My own formerly conservative district, in Clark County, WA, has turned solid BLUE since the emergence of Trump in 2015. He's the leader who expects his subjects to kneel to the Centralized Government, but with him at the center. Couldn't be more crystal clear about it, really.

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"America is a diverse, melting pot nation" "united"

Always has been. But never united. Different regions settled by different types of people (ethnicities, religions, classes) each with their own points of view, values and goals - many conflicting with each other.

"When Keelai was discussing expansion westward, he's thinking of the Compromises in the States and Terrorities leading up to the Civil War."

Nope! King George III "Royal Proclamation of 1763" which forbade expansion pass the Appalachian mountains in order to avoid expensive warfare with Native people and their French allies.

Southerners in Virginia like Washington saw potential in expansion. Thousands of runaway slaves and Freedmen joined the British after being promised an end to slavery. Southern planters found that a threat. The South was basically an oligarchy where only its upper class had power. Their agricultural economy depended on slavery unlike other regions. Planters became very rich from it. They fought to maintain slavery.

Unlike Southerners, the Puritans in New England resented Britain's attempt to govern over them, new taxes, laws and their standing army. Also, they were more egalitarian in which (white) men shared power. They resented losing their self-governance. Different reasons for both groups to go to war.

One third of the colonists were Loyalists. Some regions never rebelled. New York City was a Loyalists stronghold.

Not everyone believed in slavery. Quakers were against it.

Slavery's legacy still exists. The South's racial caste system never ended. Voter suppression, book bans, white supremacists mass killings, racist zoning laws, etc. continue.

"Native neighbors weren't quite fully pacified yet"

French were more respectful than the British or Spaniards:

"They did not displace any Natives in the establishment of their settlement and continued to work closely with them in the fur trade. They respected Native territories, their ways, and treated them as the human beings they were. The Natives, in turn, treated the French as trusted friends. More intermarriages took place between French settlers and Native Americans than with any other European group."

"The Democrats, along with former moderate Republicans, are officially united as a party of "pull yourself up by your boot straps" and take charge of your life."

Nope. Some groups who came to the U.S. had an utopian vision and believed in pooling together resources either through church or government for the benefit of the common good. Oligarchs believe in "going it alone" because they don't need to rely on others for survival.

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All very interesting, but you said this:

"Conservatives in the South were originally Loyalists against the war and changed their minds later when they saw an opportunity to spread slavery to new territory."

You haven't even acknowledged what I mentioned of the cotton gin invention which is what made slavery an economically viable way-of-life for these Southern Oligarchs. However, since this invention *didn't exist* at the time of the Declaration of Independence & there wasn't even railroads until 1830, this sprawling land, & more slaves, was not needed as a motivating factor. If it were along w/ no hard toil to settle out in the unexplored Frontier West, then they could just easily escape British (& Yankee?) rule w/o a fight.

When imagining colonial life from the comfort of 21st Century, it's easy to just mistakenly insert yourself in the time period w/ all the knowledge of your Age. But you must reject everything you know about "the future" and put your mind in the dirt to get an accurate understanding. No matter what kind of schooling a supposedly educated Southerner may have gotten, he's not learning about a curriculum of Manifest Destiny, or Industrial Revolution, or Emancipation & Civil Rights. No internet research. This may just as well be Sci-Fi about Starfleet & the Federation of Planets to them, say nothing of their slaves who cannot read or write.

A king will exercise his authority whether practical & enforcible, or not. How many "royal proclamations" have there been since the Middle Ages? It's just show business at the palace.

Jefferson, in initial draft, laid out addt'l charge against Mad King, his own coordination in bringing the slave trade to the colonies—totally valid charge & then, in times of dispute, using slaves by promoting uprisings. Partially edited out, so sure, some liked slave trade, some not. Good to know. But Revolution had a higher calling than this & we all know it. Unless ur MAGA... they still need their orange king.

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The Constitution protects slavery in several passages, therefore it must have been very important to them.

"Royal Proclamation of 1763" was enforced by thousands of red coats. I already mentioned that the occupying army angered New Englanders who were also forced to house them. Housing armies is also mentioned in the Constitution.

Landed aristocrats in Britain left their entire estate to their eldest son. Younger sons were expected to make their own fortune which is how they ended up in Virginia and Maryland growing tobacco. Not cotton. They recreated the British feudal system with a manor and indentured servants (later slaves) substituting for tenant farmers and day laborers. Washington, Mason and Robert E. Lee's British ancestors were aristocrats with their own manors and tenant farmers. Liberty was for the privileged few. Only the rich voted, held office, controlled churches, courts and received an education since there were no public schools.

Other British aristocrats' sons had went to Barbados where a brutal slave system developed in which the slave mortality rate was double that of Virginia. They became extremely rich, but ran out of land which is the reason they emigrated to South Carolina bringing their brutal form of slavery with them. Cotton was lucrative and slavery spread to other Southern states.

The rich planters were loyal to Britain's aristocrats (and royals) because that was their ancestral origin.

Tobacco and cotton were extremely labor intensive which means they needed plenty of indentured servants/slaves especially before the cotton gin. Slaves outnumbered whites 5 to 1 in South Carolina. Both commodities were extremely popular in Europe. The cotton grown in the South was a better quality.

The New England Puritans were basically educated middle-class families with the goal of creating a religious utopia. Unlike Southerners, they created public schools where education was mandatory, townhalls, churches and equally divided family lots. They valued education and disliked aristocrats including the planters.

""Revolution had a higher calling""

No. There was no single higher calling.

The Southern oligarchs cared about money. They made money with slavery. The New England Puritans valued self-governance and the British usurped that.

New York City was about making money, also. But, they had various profitable businesses with Britain so they supported them.

Other regions and people had their own reasons for supporting or rejecting the war.

"to settle out in the unexplored Frontier West"

America was settled South to North by the Spaniards who already explored California, Texas, Florida, Oregon, Kansas, New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, etc..

After the war, Southerners spread to Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, northern Louisiana, Memphis and eastern Texas.

"slaves who cannot read or write"
Muslims were literate. 30% of African slaves were Muslim. Largest library in the world was in Timbuktu.

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What is missing, this time, from your encyclopediac responses is a very curious & illustrative fact. The population of the American colonies at the time of Revolution is comparitive to the modern day population of the State of Kansas. But a population that's spread out thru a huge chunk of a continent.

Kansas is, by no means, considered to be a populous state. It is often mocked today as flyover country. I happen to think it's quite nice & peaceful there, but all the same... rural. The loyalist New York City you seem to use quite often as a bastion of British sentiment was smaller than Topeka or Wichita.

Possibly you know this. But others may not. You do them a disservice, perhaps. I cannot stress enough the importance of not letting your assumptions & knowledge of the modern times influence how you view the past.

If a Continential Congress rep. from South Carolina starts talking about the importance of slavery in deliberation, he may very well be representing two or three families outside of Charleston who have contacts that are slave merchants.

I really feel like you hadn't considered it this way, because here you are throwing out figures (not sourced) like 30% or 5 to 1, etc... and then *this* beauty of a line:

"America was settled South to North by the Spaniards who already explored California, Texas, Florida, Oregon, Kansas, New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, etc.."

My goodness! This is the Frontier, but you're just naming the current States with no disclaimer. It's the f-king wilderness! We have idiots here who think Biden campaign workers stuffed ballots boxes on election night w/ no oversight in, like, 6 swing states...no repercussions. Do you really have faith in MC readers to accurately imagine the 1770s?

African slaves weren't kidnapped from the shores. They were enslaved, imprisoned, sold by their own tribal leaders. I made a mistake earlier in declaring slavery dead. Do you know it still exists today in... where? Oh, yeah. Timbuktu, Mali!

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You're arguing to argue which at this point sounds like rambling since you're off-topic and all over the place.

Fact is that the colonists spread to new territories after defeating the British and its "Royal Proclamation of 1763". They had no problem attracting immigrants to help populate land.

Fact is that the colonists were NOT united against the British. Some regions even went to war with each other. Quakers, Amish, Mennonites, etc. were pacifists and Loyalists who lived in regions that didn't fight during the Revolution.

Fact is that New York City was financially successful and the center of trade and commerce. It became the capital of the U.S. in 1785.

New York City's population increased from 22,000 to 33,000 during the war because Loyalists from other states fled or came to fight. There were also 24,000 British soldiers who had defeated Washington. Half the population left after Britain's defeat for Britain and Canada.

Fact is many of the states I named were part of Mexico.

Fact is the U.S. economy relied on slavery especially in the South.

You watched too many Tarzan movies. No, they weren't "enslaved, imprisoned, sold" by their "own tribal leaders". I'm positive that you have no idea how offensive, stereotyped, racist and incorrect your comment is. I suggest instead of being a slavery apologist, you open an African history book and learn.

Fact is some African slaves were still literate no matter how much you wish to malign Timbuktu.

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"You're arguing to argue which at this point sounds like rambling since you're off-topic and all over the place."

Says the poster who's writing about Tarzan, Mennonites, Timbuktu and Barbados. lmao Are you on the autism spectrum, or do you just have an ego the size of your post history?

You're pretty much a non-entity to me, as are most other posters, so I'd hardly call this an argument. Most of the time, I'm writing (as one might in a blog) to the lurkers out there—not even to you. I know they're here, and I was a lurker myself for many years. That's changed recently, though, because I felt someone has to be a counterpoint to all the Biden Derangment Syndrome fiends like Bubba, and those sharing third-party columns, pathetically still trying in vain to sell the "multiple felon huckster, Larry Sinclair, had cocaine-fueled gay sex with Barack Obama before his presidency" story.

I'm actually not sure you're not a bot. I've tried to provide personal tidbits about my past life and experience in the world as often as I can in my just over 200 posts, but I don't see anyone else doing likewise. Perhaps this is because people here like anonymity and are recluses, or perhaps they have no life history, but either way they're not doing themselves any favors.

My focus here is simple:

1. Bubbathegut is one of the biggest ignoramus douchebags in internet history.
2. Keelai has a propensity to miss the forest for the trees.
3. Chattel Slavery, and it's end, are a dangerous subject to obsess about, because then one may encorporate a slave-mindset and this is pleasing to the likes of Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and especially the Koch Brothers if they're even still alive.
4. Blacks & Indians like to play victim.
5. The British Empire, and modern Brits themselves, were rarely the good guys.
6. Though history is fascinating, don't forget that what's going on right now is actually more important than wild events of the past. A populous tech-fueled world will always eclipse a rural world with wooden ships and muskets in the grand scheme of things.

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Your reliance on ad hominem = you cannot refute any of my responses to your comments.

History isn't in the past. It always affects the present. You missed the complete meaning of my posts. For instance, red states aren't just red for no reason. If you learn history, then you learn and understand the reasons.

You understand that the rich run society. You don't understand that they have used race to divide and conquer from the 1600s. Read about Bacon's Rebellion (1626). The rich oppressed and exploited both white indentured servants and black slaves who frequently united to runaway or riot. After Bacon's Rebellion, the rich gave privileges to poor whites while removing them from blacks deepening a race-based caste system. Poor whites had the choice of class (poor blacks) or race (rich whites). They chose race.

"Dying of Whiteness: How the Politics of Racial Resentment Is Killing America's Heartland" by Dr. Jonathan M. Metzl explains how this choice increases the misery and death rate among working-class and poor whites today.

"Working Toward Whiteness: How America's Immigrants Became White: The Strange Journey from Ellis Island to the Suburbs" by David R. Roediger explains how despised immigrants from Italy, Poland, Ireland etc. were eventually accepted as white partially by adapting to U.S. racism.

The Divide and Conquer strategy is always used to manipulate, exploit and destroy a group. The strategy was successfully used in the Americas against Native peoples, Africa (no, tribal chiefs didn't sell their own people!) and in the U.S. historically and presently.

If you don't want Tarzan mentioned, then don't use its stereotypes in lieu of learning African history.

No, "blacks and Indians don't enjoy" being persecuted. You are still a slavery apologist and racist which is unfortunate considering that you say you're "liberal".

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I'm glad you like Biden and democracy. It's great how our party is such a huge tent, huh? Now please, please, stay the f-ck on your side of the tent, and do your duty.

I hope you've gotten this all out of your system now. You're a total sheep. You're definitely a woman and raging feminist. You should be embarrassed for how you construct the world of men in your mind, and put it on full display without a hint of self-awareness over your blind spot. I'd recommend deleting your post history now to prevent further nagging humiliation which will inevitably come if you ever find the time to evade your sociological academia cult and spend some time in the real world. You're the one who's been missing the meaning of our exchanges. I'm solidifying a coalition with moderates here, and you're mucking up the works because the social issues you are touting are precisely this—a "Divide and Conquer strategy used to manipulate, exploit and destroy a group."

Nobody knows or cares about this nonsense you are obsessing about except you, therefore they are not controlled by it. You have no sense of nuance, and certainly no sense of humor. Suicidal people in Missouri don't need Dr. Metzl to psychoanalyze them post-mortem. Likewise, the dead of past civilizations don't require you and your crusade to seek vengeance for them. They would probably burn you as a witch, in fact, and even from a modern perspective—well, it wouldn't be the worst decision they could make! They lived full lives as human animals... how dare you try to rob them of that and convert them to Quakerism. Get back in the kitchen and make me a turkey pot pie. I'm descended from Mayflower pilgrims, and it's almost Thanksgiving.

You can't call a modern liberal a "racist" and "slavery apologist" on one hand, and then pretend to be above ad hominem. The gloves are off.

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More ad hominem = you still cannot refute any of my responses to your comments.

You left out feminazi during your misogynistic rant.

Calling you what you are is descriptive and true: Misogynist. Racist. White Supremacist. Authoritarian. I'm sure your next rant will have plenty of anti-LGBTQ rhetoric so I can add homophobe, also.

Moderate? Liberal? Your far-right extremism is on full display in your bigoted posts.

Mayflower pilgrims resorted to cannibalism when their food ran out during the winter of 1609-10. Are you descended from the man who killed his pregnant wife and ate her or just one of the others who dug up buried dead bodies and ate them?

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See response on thread below. These two discussions are essentially the same discussion. I have no interest in responding point-by-point and grading your Social Studies notes from your Critical Race Theory course. But I'm about to grade your final exam.

/END

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Also, why is it that you can write so much... but mine is limited in characters? Do you have some Premium "bot" account, or something?

My response above is all I could type in a single post before being cut-off. Jesus, this site is so shady.

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You can type more by editing your previous post. Sometimes it's buggy where it limits a certain amount then allowing more later on. For other reasons it could be by years on MC and post count.

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Thx. Worked

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Easy to get tired of slavery as it's ever constant and in human nature. Even to this day we still have slavery and Capitalism thrives on slaves be it slave labor or slave wages at home or abroad.

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I like what you're saying but re-elect Biden? Oof. Think we've had enough of these two brain dullards to warrant another reign from any of them. Who'd want to re-elect one of two of the most unpopular presidents in recent history? Just madness. Is there nothing else the Left have to offer besides him? It's like they're not even trying anymore. Meanwhile on the Right at least you got a couple young and upcoming folks at the table.

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Choice is Biden or Trump. aka: democracy or authoritarianism.

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I can understand that point-of-view, and I'm not sure I entirely disagree. I think they'll soon be a time for younger & more dynamic leaders again. Remember, though, I think the Left needs to maintain it's status as a meritocracy of ideas which the Right has completely abandoned. Biden is NOT dictatorial, he's an intellectual, and MAGA equates that all as weak. They have no use for an establishment figure who's seen it all, has faith in his team, and is basically just a wise old man. He's the Mr. Miyagi of politics!

If you want real change, focus on the Legislature and State/Local instead of the Presidential horse-race. MAGA and corporatism is always fighting us. Even Democrats who are loving Biden are responding with "the country is on the wrong track" in surveys. This is because we realize the deadlocked Congress, or the oft-Republican control of the last 30 years has caused major problems. Keynesian economics has very much proven it's value in the 20th Century, and yet, people like Rand Paul & Ted Cruz w/ their Gilded Age ideas have far too much influence. My own formerly Red District of Clark County, WA has turned bright Blue since Trump's emergence, and that's how you know Trump's BIG LIE is false. He wasn't cheated. The parties have realigned, and he can't win in the suburbs any longer. The midterms showed us this as well.

These are his voters now:

https://previews.123rf.com/images/antonbrand/antonbrand1304/antonbrand130400018/18940096-red-neck-holding-a-beer-cartoon-isolated-on-white.jpg

Socially, they are also projecting their degeneracy big-time, including all over these boards. To them, this is Joe Biden being a sexual predator for goodness sake. (Ignore the caption.)

https://www.lifezette.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/2021.08.05-11.16-lifezette-610c714125a52.jpg

Meanwhile the GOP Speaker before Pelosi (Hastert) is the highest ranking elected official in our nation's history to serve a prison sentence—which he got for molesting four boys as young a 14 during his time as a wrestling coach. *crickets chirp in MAGA country*

Trump tried to get another like him elected to the Senate, Roy Moore, of Alabama, but failed. (A Republican sexual predator LOST... in Alabama. So, hope is alive.)

Democrats, along with their coalition of ex-GOP are, unquestionably, the party of family values. Hell, as a liberal I don't even mind much about Roe v. Wade being overturned. Forget the media narrative about this "wedge issue" that the GOP are still trying to make relevant so they can institute a flat tax. (Yeah, I know those issues seem disparate... that's the point.) They are not genuine people... they are huxsters.

There are so many birth control options now that didn't exist in 1970 and women are more open about things, are not beholden to their spouse/boyfriend/baby-daddy, and have more control to just go where they need to in event of emergency. So it was high time to reevaluate that court precedent anyhow. Hoo-yah. The Right are running outta things to weaponize!

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Just fucking leave, man. You seem to hate the US really hard. Just... go.

Ironically, if you chose to do this... there's probably no country that would take you in. Most nations see the average American as a useless bottom feeder, and they enforce their immigration policies.

________________________
"When fascism comes to America, it will come in the name of 'Liberalism'."
-President Ronald Reagan

https://youtube.com/shorts/jPbGsvoNKMw?feature=share

Leftists always lie.
Wokeness is Fascism+Hypocrisy.

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the party trying to bow down to an absolute ruler in another country (Putin) and let him do what he wants and say we need to cave. is going to lecture others about the catalyst of the revolutionary war?

this is funny.

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Seems like a lot of folks here could use some education regarding our first president! Here's a good book...

https://www.amazon.com/You-Never-Forget-Your-First/dp/0735224102

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George and all the others that stood up to Tyranny are only considered hero's because we won the war. If the uprising had been quashed by Britain then they would be labeled traitors and probably hung at the gallows.

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The irony is that slave owner Washington created tyranny, also.

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No, Washington was fine. He was just a man of his era. Ultimately, though, it wasn't a very important time even. We only think so nowadays because we still see his face every day.

In the time of monarchs, he was progressive for just being a serving Executive and giving Americans a taste of self-rule. And that's just terrific.

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Washington was among the worst of his era. An oligarch. A slaveowner. A business cheat. A rapist. He believed in "Classical Republicanism" in which liberty and power were reserved for the few highborn like himself who were expected to rule over their subjects including blacks, commoner whites and women whose natural position were one of bondage and inferiority to serve the elite. No coincidence that Virginia named places after royals and high nobles: Prince George; Jamestowm; Virginia; Beaufort; Williamsburg...) He and his fellow aristocrats recreated their manorial feudalism in the South. He was part of an authoritarian society where only rich white men were allowed to vote or hold power. But, I will give him credit for stepping down after 2-terms setting precedent for peaceful transfer of power until wannabe dictator Trump.

Best of that era:
1. Quakers - Belief that all humans, including women and blacks, were equal. They were abolitionists who condemned slavery and forbade ownership. Pacifists. The Golden Rule.

2. Sam de Champlain and the French - Respect for Native people by learning their culture, respecting their borders and friendly social and business exchanges.

3. Iroquois Confederacy - Their concepts and principles of federation, equality, democracy, governance were inspiration for the Constitution.

4. Theodore Sedgwick, Anthony Benezet, Dr. Benjamin Rush, Moses Brown, Benjamin Franklin and other Abolitionists.

5. New Englanders and Northerners - They believed in "Freiheit". The belief that individuals were born with freedom and rights including self-governance. This is the concept that is a basic American tenet which is the opposite of Washington's Classical Republicanism.

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You again?

You can't take George Washington and Andrew Jackson away, and replace them with hippie Marxist college professors opining about the nature of whiteness. The result is Modern Americans are gonna vote for authoritarianism. It's the nature of things.

Your posts make me want to read Mein Kampf.

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Your heroes are slave owners, racists and genociders. It's obvious you already support Mein Kampf's ideology.

Your faux liberal act fools no one, Trumpite.

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I'm baiting you, and it worked. You're not really concerned about accepting the world as it is, and making necessary sacrifices to work with those who are willing to unite under economic policy goals or a party platform—in our case, The Democratic Party platform.

https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/2020-Democratic-Party-Platform.pdf

Read it. There's some sentimential hogwash, sure, that you'll enjoy most of all. Inclusive stuff. Native American healthcare. LGBTQ+, etc. But 95% of it is straight policy. Social Security. Healthcare. Workers, Farmers. Immigration. Criminal Justice Reform. Drugs. Infrastructure. Keynesian economics. Repeal of Citizen's United/Campaign Finance Reform, Foreign policy. Critique about Trump's trade war, etc. Nothing about it is translated to terms you understand from watching The View.

In your world, we Dems gather at our convention and say, "OMG... the gays... praise the gays... how'd you get so lucky to be gay? can we be gay, too? teach us to be gay and love our neighbor. In fact, free genital mutilation 4 all." "Women are sooooo much better than men... and let me womanplain why since now I'm transgender and have insight in the psychological process of all humans" "OMG... the indians... we're so sorry to have stolen your land. We give it back pronto. Have a seat at the table. I'm betting on the NFL's Washington Football Team to take the Vince Lombardi Trophy (renamed the Geronimo Tecumseh Sacagawea Trophy under our leadership) since that team is now fully political correct. Our administration will be 80% Native American. Promise." "Blacks are better and more righteous than whites. Despite the crime in their neighborhoods... we're to begin to defund the police and military. They SOOOO white, and villains. It's not a question of bad apples and training... they bad... trumpers. WOKENESS unite."

You see how you live in a cartoon world?

You don't comprehend that social issues can be cyclical, and often are. You're too polarized. It is *you* who has fallen for the Divide & Conquer attempts from the rich, which can include Marxist professors, yes, and you are completely beholden to the past. You think in absolutes about how lineage governs us today—complete reliance in identity politics to sort things out. You're even making purity arguments and establishing litmus tests over proper 21st Century Americans—those descended from Quakers rather than Pilgrims. lmao. Are you sure you haven't been studying under a revised Hitler Youth curriculum?! Right outta that playbook, darling.

30 million Americans, at least, are descended from Pilgrims, including Clint Eastwood, Katharine Hepburn, and multiple presidents, such as the Bushs and Roosevelts. Shit, I think maybe even Obama is from his Kansan white mother's side.

Nixon, however, was a Quaker. Smart, but repressive, unhinged, paranoid. Terrible leader. Still, in both cases, correlation =/= causation. That's one-dimensional thinking like that which can be found in Mein Kampf.

You think cuz I'm not willing to trash George Washington that I must be going apeshit worshipfulness on him with gooey eyes. You called him as among my "heroes." I might also include Horace Greeley and Frederick Douglass as American heroes in the same vein, but that don't matter, because you have me pegged, don't cha?

Men aren't going fawn over these figures the way you want us to, or the way you do. We're not shopping for a boyfriend here for fuck's sake. If you want to date Quakers, then find some Quaker-only hookup. This is essential what you're talking about and what you seem to be looking for—an ideal mate. A nation of 400 million are not going to be about... you. Men will accept other men in roles of leadership for the qualities they can provide that have been deemed useful in relationships based on chain-of-command, inspiration and motivation. I'm not lying, a woman will have a tougher time trying to exude these qualities for us, because we are so used to seeing their qualities that are antithetical to leadership. Nancy Pelosi seems pretty squared away, but she's hit her ceiling. If it were so easy, then a woman would have already sat as an Executive. It's just the way it is.

Time to grow up and start being a realist, uum-kay.

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BTW, I still prefer you over Bubbathegut, Gd5150, AmeriGirl, JoWilli, BickSurn and the rest here. Can't even have a discussion with them... the real Trumpers. Either they're trolling, or been eating too many paintchips.

You're just young and have been taking everything at face value in the media narrative or whatever—searching for the American utopia. Proud to have you on my team, Keelai. Don't stay too idealist, though... it'll lead to cynicism as you age.

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Are you a poster worth having a discussion with? Yes? If you can honestly say that to me, I'll give your posts attention.

The truth is, this website is a clusterfuck mess, and keeping up with all the troll posts is a goddamned nightmare the way the board operates. The lack of voting to push down the useless crap doesn't help either.

I'm a pretty busy dude, and do not have the time to respond to every little low IQ troll on here.(Since Friday night, I have 37 alerts)

I also don't consider walls of text an indication of intelligence, so unless they can pull in the reader in the first 2-3 sentences, don't bother. If one cannot make point within a few sentences, the rest probably isn't worth reading.

________________________
"When fascism comes to America, it will come in the name of 'Liberalism'."
-President Ronald Reagan

https://youtube.com/shorts/jPbGsvoNKMw?feature=share

Leftists always lie.
Wokeness is Fascism+Hypocrisy.

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Walls of text indicate, maybe not intelligence, but extensive book learning and contemplation. I'm not willing to conform to the world post-social-media where there are character limits—whether enforced or not. My thoughts are essay-length, because that's what I read. There seems to be tons of regulars here trying to get their daily fix for politics, but in my eyes, no one is saying anything of substance. It's all surface level with no deeper analysis.

I'm also not here to make friends, and I will never obtain the kind of post history as some of you guys & gals.

The first thing I'd say to anyone in discussion about politics is to look at what the politicians do, rather than what they say. You have a 1975 quote from Reagan on here about liberals trending toward fascism. It's no hard task, or great feat of leadership to string together words in a dishonest sentence. If you want to hang your hat on this Reagan quote and hope for it to echo into eternity, then you are one sad individual.

By strict definition, neither party is fascist, really, but nobody in their right mind is gonna look at Reagan's two terms and then say that Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton were more fascistic. Reagan's running mate was the former head of the CIA, and former agent himself. He also let Howard Hunt, also CIA, into the Nixon White House. Later, they were engaging in imperial-level shit all over Central America. Funding right-wing coups with the profits made from gun-running in Iran—a terrorist nation. They built up the Military Industrial Complex to an absurd level.

They do this to corner the market on the vote-tally. Those who have fascistic tendencies are already going to vote for Reagan, Bush and Trump over their opponents. However, if they can also redirect and portray the Democrats as fascistic then the low-information voters on the fence who don't like that sort of thing may either stay home or vote the other way by ignorance. Accuse others of what you are. Trump used this playbook immensely.

Trump seemed to portray himself as leader of the freedom-loving, Christian conservative party, and Law & Order president. He's a straight up criminal grifter, sexual predator and philanderer, and will likely soon be imprisoned as several of his appointees have already. His history of this was all known for decades, particularly by New Yorkers. He, therefore, managed to get a hefty criminally-minded degenerate vote who paid attention, and then also support from straight-laced idiots who watch The 700 Club and Huckabee. The latter would be embarrassed to be in the same room as someone like Stormy Daniels, I'm sure.

When Clinton banged interns... it was the same thing. He & Gore had nothing to lose by it, and everything to gain. These are socially conservative intellectuals from Arkansas and Tennessee. I have little doubt that Bill & Hillary Clinton probably have a vanilla love-life the same as Mike & Karen Pence. Bill played up the hip, saxophone-playing party animal attributes so that he can obtain/keep similar-minded voters who soured on the Jimmy Carter and Walter Mondale-type Democratic campaigns. Turned out that voters wanted candidates as flawed as they are.

I also think Hunter Biden and his hit-the-skids/drug-addled videos, and the "laptop" story are all self-imposed fiction. It HELPS his dad with voters, not hinders. Liberals under Biden, particularly in academia, have been adopting somewhat more of an authoritarian mindset as of late, and you seem to be picking up on that. Perhaps this comes in the form of Critical Race Theory "wokeism" or whatever the buzzwords are for it. However, this is a very sad post-Trump effect on society. If you don't want it, then why didn't you vote for Hillary Clinton when you had the chance? Do you really believe having someone like Trump as a backlash to Obama didn't flare up tensions regarding identity politics big-time?! Cause-and-Effect, and this must be tallied into any smart voting decision. Also, the strong-man populism that Trump adopted has now been legitimized and has to be utilized during the campaign to stay competitive. If you don't like it (and neither do I) then lets publicly try Trump in a court of law for his many financial or insurrection-based crimes. Seeing this all play out will turn the American people sour on authoritarism, perversion, moral decay—candidates will turn back to moderate, policy-driven and less flamboyant figures, and there will be less focus on all that I mentioned above... hopefully.

I want less theatricality in politics. If policy is the focus, then Americans win. This is Moviechat... so save the drama for the movies.

If you know all this and are purposely perpetuating it, then I want nothing to do with you. I'm working to tamper the polarization, not enhance it. Others seem to be looking for Civil War, part II. As a war-time veteran, it pisses me off greatly that folks would encourage that sort of thing for their own gratification.

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No, I don't want to be on your team. You're a racist and misogynist. Your ideology is as bad as any Trumpite.

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Don’t care. Even a baby like you should be able to understand something:

There’s a difference from an individual who’s not trying to collect ghetto friends, fairies and queers, and low class, irate, promiscuous women into their life—while at the same time, wishing them the best in their communities. Democrats work for them, but Republicans don’t give a damn. That’s unacceptable and unpatriotic.

I’m in a swing county, now turned from Red to Blue since 2016, and I’m going to work to keep it that way.

A good part of my extended family has moved from New England to the Carolinas and in a couple decades the whole Eastern seaboard will be Blue—from Florida to Maine.

The MAGA party protect white-collar criminals, and their government oaths of office mean nothing to them. If you agree, then you’re on my team as far as I’m concerned. I hope you live in a swing state.

I served my country. My old CO works in the Department of Energy. Research Operation Burnt Frost. I was there!

Veterans support Biden/Harris!

What do you think of the Iran deal currently in the news?

https://moviechat.org/nm0081182/Joe-Biden/64ffbd2283b6106bd4c9c80e/6-billion-for-Iran

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"ghetto friends, fairies and queers, and low class, irate, promiscuous women"

I rest my case.

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