Woke-trek: the ultimate perfect and incredibly boring character
I want strong well written men and women, not "perfect character cries nonstop" the show
shareThere are 4 classic and 4 new series. Stop crying!
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MovieChat Forums > Star Trek: Discovery (2017) Discussion > Woke-trek: the ultimate perfect and incr...
Trek is supposed to be woke like its creator Gene Roddenberry intended it to be.
shareSTD is radicalized Karen crap, Rodenberry's show was nothing of the sort, otherwise he wouldn't have had a swaggering, macho, Captain Kirk seducing various beautiful women.
shareA.
You don't know the definition of a Karen. She's usually a middle-aged entitled white woman complaining or being racist.
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/Mrj_vPG7OVE
There was also an excellent TV movie called "Karen" which I recommend.
2.
Like a dummy, you took the bait. Gene Roddenberry promoted Trek as a "western about a traveling wagon train, but in space" to the network. It was a bait and switch strategy.
His intention was to make the show have social commentary from a leftwing viewpoint. The half white/ half black aliens episode was a dig at racism in the South, the first interracial kiss on TV, episode about Nazis and antisemitism, etc..
And he insisted on an diverse cast which was extremely rare in the 60s.
Watch the original pilot with Jeffrey Hunter as the captain. A woman is second in command. They did a second pilot because even women rejected a strong female character.
Macho womanizer Kirk wasn’t Roddenberry's idea. Perhaps the network. ST:TNG's cerebral, passive Picard was the captain he really wanted and was finally able to do with the spinoff.
"You don't know the definition of a Karen. She's usually a middle-aged entitled white woman complaining or being racist."
^Like YOU, complaining about white privelage and toxic masculinity.
"Macho womanizer Kirk wasn’t Roddenberry's idea. Perhaps the network. ST:TNG's cerebral, passive Picard was the captain he really wanted and was finally able to do with the spinoff."
^Suuuure, notorious womanizer Rodenberry had nothing to do with Kirk's creation. LMFAO!
Nice to see you enjoy a lefty TV series so much!
"Its enduring resonance is a testament to Gene Roddenberry’s vision for a future where diversity and tolerance are encouraged and in which inclusivity and equality are the norm. In the future, the Star Trek creator believed, the human potential to be “remarkable” would yield a better, fairer world — “a world with no hunger, poverty, prejudice, or greed”. Since it first aired over five decades ago, Star Trek has continued to offer a unique brand of science fiction that invites us to “think, question, and challenge the status quo” with the intention of creating “a brighter future”.
https://roddenberryfoundation.org/about-us/
Rodenberry's dimwitted parasite of a wife started that so called Rodenberry Foundation 7 years after he died. That blathering paragraph you posted is meaningless.
shareLOL!
shareThe Foundation wasn't created by his wife. You're having delusions, again.
It's wonderful you're enjoying a liberal TV series!
Roddenberry's intent was to make money. Yes the writers guide for the original series told writers that it was great if they had a message they wanted to get across, but it made it clear that the message/commentary should not be the main point of the episode they wrote. Entertainment value was the priority. All this business about Roddenberry being some kind of social visionary came about on the convention circuit in the seventies.
Roddenberry kept repeating that story that test audiences and the executives didn't like having a woman as second in command in The Cage. That's typical Roddenberry grandstanding. They were actually just fine with having a woman in a leadership role. What they did not like was the actress, because of her wooden acting skills. She was only there because she was Roddenberry's girlfriend and he was doing her a favor. Also there is no racial diversity to speak of in The Cage. The only racial minority character appears for about three seconds in the transporter room and just pushes a couple buttons and has no lines at all. NBC was actually pushing for more racial diversity in their shows at the time, and The Cage didn't cut it.
Nicholls read for the Spock role.
Majel's Number 2 character wasn't feminine, nor attractive, and had a lot of authority. None acceptable at that time. Nurse Chapel was more acceptable - pretty, sexy, and traditional role as a nurse.
You must be young. Women newscasters weren't even acceptable in the 60s. They were all men until the lawsuit which forced the three networks to hire blacks and women. There was a fear a woman didn't have the authority (male voice and presence) to deliver new.
You've never watched the original show. It's filled with social commentary.
I grew up on TOS. I've seen every episode so many times that I lost count back in the nineties. I am a TOS fan first and foremost, almost a TOS purist. It is the only real Trek to me. I only watch TOS in its true form with the original special effects; I detest the "remastered" CGI-inserted hogwash from 2006. I barely consider TNG to be worthy of the name "Star Trek." Or any of the movies after The Wrath of Khan, for that matter. And sometimes even TWOK is questionable to me. That's how devoted I am to TOS. But thanks for being presumptuous and attempting to gatekeep.
I simply acknowledge that TOS was not nearly as groundbreaking as certain fans like to believe. Especially in terms of science fiction, as it was way behind the literary SF world in so many respects. And I certainly don't drink the Roddenberry Kool-Aid. The best ideas in Trek came from others on the staff, especially Gene L. Coon, not Roddenberry. Try taking a gander at Solow and Justman's book "Inside Star Trek: The Real Story" sometime.
Here is an excellent fact-checking article that cuts through the self-aggrandizing Roddenberry mythology and shows how the original Trek actually fit into the television market in terms of diversity: https://www.facttrek.com/blog/nbcblackamerica
Yes TOS got a little too heavy-handed and clumsy with social commentary at times. But that was NOT the original intent of the show. Read the 1967 writers guide which came from Roddenberry himself: https://www.bu.edu/clarion/guides/Star_Trek_Writers_Guide.pdf
If an episode's "message" was detracting from the entertainment value, then it wasn't a good episode. "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield," anyone? Or "The Omega Glory?" The best and most entertaining episodes told good stories about the characters, without bonking the viewer on the head with an overbearing message.
Very little in which we disagree except for the degree of 60s racism/sexism and Roddenberry's contribution.
Racist/Sexist NBC still had to be sued, along with the other two networks, to hire POC and women as newscasters and other jobs. Tokenism re: African-Americans on a FEW shows doesn't impress me especially when Asian, Hispanic, Native-American, etc. discrimination persisted except in Trek which attempted to be multi-ethnic.
Martin Luther King Jr. convinced Nichols to remain on Trek when she wanted to quit. Her presence was an inspiration.
The final product is what counts! Creative projects always go through multiple revisions.
Roddenberry is the one who created Trek and had to sell it to the network which is not easy. As the original pilot and TNG show, he wanted it to be cerebral, but promoted it as a "Wagon Train to the Stars" to get NBC to buy the idea. It's common to put-down innovators like Roddenberry, Lucas, Jobs, etc. when selling their vision to naysayers is the most important step and most difficult.
60s Trek's vision of the future was accurate because he spoke to scientists to see what inventions were on the horizon. Another smart move.
You don't know the definition of a Karen. She's usually a middle-aged entitled white woman complaining or being racist.
It has nothing to do with racism, that was something that was added to make it seem worse. It actually DEFEATS the idea of a Karen.
A "Karen" is someone that complains about something, usually about the service industry, that is irrelevant. Examples would be the timing of getting a meal at a busy restaurant, or the table not being cleared when they went to the table early. Karens complain about irrelevant things and think they they are being treated horrible when they are not.
To throw that they are a racist in there turns it from something that is irrelevant and something we can laugh at behind her back to something that is serious and should be addressed to her.
The "Karens" that are racist are not Karens, they are a-holes.
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Karens complain about black people, often to the police, for doing ordinary things, too. That's the reason the description expanded later to include the racist acts.
shareTOS was never woke.
shareTV was lily white in those days. Roddenberry insisted on a diverse cast especially on the bridge which was a radical idea in the 60s. Furthermore, during the height of the Cold War with the USSR, he insisted on a Russian crew member.
Also, capitalism is dead. They live in a socialist universe where money no longer exists. Food, housing, medical care, clothes are all free.
You also missed the social commentary against racism, money, anti-Semitism, bigotry, etc..
Ditto ST:TNG which takes it further with the disabled (blind) Geordi who began as ship's navigator and at least two episodes devoted to LGBTQ issues.
You forget about the pro-Christianity episode. How's that fit your narrative?
shareWow! Who told you liberals aren't religious? Remember hippie Christians called Jesus Freaks by conservatives? Godspell and Jesus Christ Superstar? And Black evangelicals are very religious. Rev. Sharpton, Rev. Jesse Jackson, Dr. King?
BTW, both Shatner and Nimoy are Jewish. I heard Nimoy was extremely religious. The Vulcan greeting is really from Jewish heritage found on gravestones which Nimoy used.
Good for you! Look, you are more right wing than you thought.
shareConservative Christians = KKK who burn crosses.
shareIt's a shame the DEMOCRAT party started the KKK. How do you see with those hoods on anyway?
shareWhite Southerners have a long history of being racists. No argument there.
shareYou probably think Bull Connor was a Republican.
shareRacist white Southerners are equally racist whether they call themselves Democrat, Republican or Independent.
shareMLK was a conservative Christian. Do your pivot dance some more.
shareNot really conservative since by definition conservatives don't want change.
MLK Jr definitely wanted change.
MLK was a self-proclaimed conservative Christian.
shareLOL! Conservatives and other Americans only began to like him after he was assassinated when he was no longer a threat to the racist status quo. Before then, he was considered public enemy number 1. FBI's Hoover considered him a commie.
share"Some people only began to like him after he was assassinated when he was no longer a threat to the racist status quo. Before then, he was considered public enemy number 1. FBI's Hoover considered him a commie. But Democrats all hated him."
fixed that for you.
Specifically Southern white Democrats who eventually became Republicans during Nixon's racist Southern strategy. We're in agreement.
share"who eventually became Republicans"
Says who? The Democrats?
We agree on everything other than your desperate defense of your party.
"In American politics, the Southern strategy was a Republican Party electoral strategy to increase political support among white voters in the South by appealing to racism against African Americans."
Racist white Southerners are equally racist whether they call themselves Democrat, Republican or Independent.
"Racist white Southerners are equally racist whether they call themselves Democrat, Republican or Independent."
At least you got this part right.
Roddenberry was not some kind of radical trailblazer. That's just the image he liked to portray in later years, and unfortunately a lot of Trek fans have just accepted that notion at face value.
Other TV shows already had racial diversity well before TOS. "I, Spy" which ran from 1965 to 1968 had a black protagonist as the actual *costar*, not just as a secretary answering the phones which is what Uhura amounted to. And the Man from U.N.C.L.E. which ran from 1964 to 1968 had a Russian character as costar, showing cooperation between an American and Russian spies. And not at some imaginary time in the far future, but in the actual then-contemporary time period of the Cold War itself. And the whole business about money not existing wasn't a thing in TOS. That came later. There were plenty of references to currency in TOS.
You're wrong. Roddenberry was a trailblazer. Not only with race, but a utopian future and futuristic technology.
Trek showed NO Cold War! That's beyond just spy cooperation. BTW, double spies and "cooperation" isn't a rarity.
Trek showed NO existence of racism which still exists in both "I, Spy" and "Julia", the two token 60s shows which featured nonstereotyped black characters.
Currency doesn't exist in the Federation. There is currency in other societies. I'll admit the writing was inconsistent.
LOL!
shareAre Karens like you ever going to stop crying about the short skirts Starfleet women wore or Kirk's toxic masculinity? After all, TOS was woke according to you.
shareim not the one who made TOS super woke, you'll have to take that up with Roddenberry
shareSuper woke tv shows don't have white male leads, racist, woke Karens hate white males.
sharefirst interracial kiss in tv history
first black female lead character
first asian male lead character
first anti-racism episodes
first anti-slavery episodes
original XO was a woman
TOS = the first ever super woke show
I'm glad you love Captain Kirk and his toxic, masculine show filled with half naked Orion SLAVE girls.
share^^^^^^
triggered! LOL!
Captain Kirk is your patriarchal white savior. Thanks to TOS, the Patriarchy will live long and prosper!
shareWhy are you a huge fan of a liberal TV show like Trek? Shouldn't you be into HeeHaw?
shareBecause I'm an all around wonderful person unlike the intolerant, racist, woke, Karens who watch Star Trek discovery.
shareYou're living vicariously through Kirk because you can't get your own girlfriend.
shareYou're living vicariously through whats her name from Discovery because you stink of cat piss, Crazy Cat Lady.
share"...Captain Kirk and his toxic, masculine show filled with half naked Orion SLAVE girls."
"Thanks to TOS, the Patriarchy will live long and prosper! "
You have a huge man-crush on Kirk because he let's you live vicariously through him.
Enjoy!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0hTtsqiFCc
Stop taking your daddy issues out on Kirk, he's not your dad.
shareLOL!
sharefirst interracial kiss in tv history
sharefirst black female lead character
sharefirst asian male lead character
sharefirst anti-racism episodes
sharefirst anti-slavery episodes
shareoriginal XO was a woman
shareTOS = the first ever super woke show
shareIt wasn't 'woke'. Listen to what Roddenberry said. Being diverse is not woke.
shareno, it was super woke! LOL!
shareNo, in fact Roddenberry brought little attention to it. Neither did the characters. Rather than making a big deal out of gender or skin color, they only focused on ability, achievement, merit. Things liberals have forgotten.
sharefirst interracial kiss in tv history
first black female lead character
first asian male lead character
first anti-racism episodes
first anti-slavery episodes
original XO was a woman
TOS = the first ever super woke show
OMG! You're right! Lets raise taxes!
shareoops! youre right, TOS also had universal basic income and free health care
shareIncome? No they didn't. They surpassed the need for money.
They must have also practiced eugenics to abort the ones who wouldn't do anything at all but lay in front of the replicators, eating, masturbating, and shitting in place.
All this enlightening woke talk is making me want a 60% increase in taxes on the middle class.
"Income? No they didn't. They surpassed the need for money."
bernie's free shit for everyone! that's even more woke! LOL!
"They must have also practiced eugenics to abort the ones who wouldn't do anything at all but lay in front of the replicators, eating, masturbating, and shitting in place."
sounds like your decendents will be out of luck! LOL!
It has been socially on the edge/frontier for sure. And from my other posts I am sure you can tell I am left leaning. But this doesnt mean I want Mary Sue, ubermench characters whether they are male or female.
its not interesting when our protagonists are just the best and greatest and most respected and superset at everything! and that good profound character struggle is just replaced with "crying". why? cause crying is "easy". crying is "lots of emotion".
"look! relate to our main character! give us an emotional response! they are crying!"
its the laziest type of writing.
Woke is just an amped up level of political correctness for a generation that believes being uncomfortable is abuse, for them. If they make someone else uncomfortable, that person has an anti-social phobia and deserves it. Neither PC nor Wokeness are liberalism, it's a hateful ideology that hides inside the Democrat party much like new fascism hides inside the Republican Party.
shareNope, you're making up a definition. The term was created by Black people with the following definition:
alert to injustice in society, especially racism.
GQPers are racists and banning and burning books. Your behavior is classic rightwing fascism.
Except his definition actually fits teh behavior we see, while yours does not. Those that are "Woke" for example, are fine with antiwhite racism and discrimination.
shareI believe the only real agenda behind Wokeness is division to imbalance the United States. It has no measurable goals, no coherent ideology, and no markers for progress. Wokeness can never succeed because they haven't defined success. Ask anyone who is woke what success looks like and they will stare at you blankly or mumble some gibberish that racism will ever end.
shareIt requires constant striving forever. The mechanism of their movement, their culture, is struggles against "oppression". They can't ever admit that any progress or victory is made, because then it is time to stop fighting and they lose power.
shareYou should make up your own term instead of stealing.
You're fine with racism and discrimination. Period.
I believe the way that it went was, you lefties invented the term, and we pointed out that what you were describing, was NOT what you claimed it was.
No one is stealing the term. We are both talking about the same thing, it is just that you see it as a good thing and we see it as it actually is.
When you say "wacist" you sound retarded.
Find your own term instead of stealing.
"antiwhite racism and discrimination"
I agree that you sound very retarded.
I like the way you ignore my point and just repeat your previous post. It shows that you know I am right, and that you got NOTHING to say about it.
shareI like the way you ignore my point and just repeat your previous post. It shows that you know I am right, and that you got NOTHING to say about it.
sharelol!! Dumbass! I didn't do that. You did. Not only do you SOUND retarded, but you ARE retarded.
The point stands. We didn't steal the term. We are both talking about the same thing, it is just that you think it is a good thing, while we think that it is a bad thing.
The question is not who came up with the term, but which definition is correct.
You literally don't even know what you are talking about.
"The question is not who came up with the term, but which definition is correct."
The term's creators have the correct definition.
I already told you that!
Still applies:
I like the way you ignore my point and just repeat your previous post. It shows that you know I am right, and that you got NOTHING to say about it.
No, they don't. THey are not "alert to injustice, especially racism".
They are assholes who have weaponized false accusations of wacism, and use it against their ideological enemies.
They invented the word, they came up with a definition, BUT, they do not fit the definition. Their behavior is not what they claim it is.
Denial of racism, like denial of the Holocaust, is racist.
shareSooooooo, you accuse someone of being wacist, and if they say they are not wacist, that makes them wacist?
And to you, that is "logic"?
Dude. If you believe this shit, you are utterly insane. If not, you are an utterly soulless liar.
Your wilful ignorance is a typical gaslighting response.
"Denial of racism, like denial of the Holocaust, is racist."
Continue to deny the obvious.
My pointing out how perfectly circular your "logic" is, is not me gaslighting. It is me pointing out that your logic is not logic. YOur response is just you doubling down, because you are a troll.
In reality, the world is full of false accusations of wacism. Denying them is completely valid, and only a race baiting asshole would claim otherwise.
Did Roddenberry intend the Federation to be a dystopia, or foul language to be used everywhere? I THINK NOT.
I don't bother with Trek from 2009 onwards because it seems to want to be more like Star Wars, with revenge plots most episodes and movies. Special effects may have advanced since 2009, but I prefer the Trek of the 1990s, all three main series, they generally kept Roddenberry's vision intact, even if he said he was against war as in DS9.
There's a funny story behind all the "crying." People complained that Michael and other characters on the show weren't emotional enough in the first few seasons, so Kurtzman demanded they cry a ton to make up for it in season 3.
sharesource?
shareI thought Sonequa's acting was horrible. Nimoy never played his role without any emotion like a robot. Her bad acting and lack of canon to the other Trek shows are the reasons I stopped watching.
share