Why do people care so much about how others wanna live? - What Is a Woman? (2022) Discussion

Government forces!

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It's because they insist that we go along with their delusions. They don't ALLOW you to just ignore it. Like, if dudes want to call themselves women after a doctor carves them up and shoots them full of hormones, fine. Just do NOT insist that I too have to call you a real woman and refer to you by your fantasy gender of choice. Don't try to make "misgendering" a hate crime. It's ludicrous and I won't enable your fallacy that way.

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[–] fani (375) 2 years ago

Ok. That's a fair point. Changing long established pronouns should not be allowed.
My point would apply to both sides now.

Let them live how they want. And they should not impose changes either.

Do you think that's fair then?

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[–] Starman (412) 2 years ago

"Changing long established pronouns should not be allowed."
Can I ask which pronouns do you mean? I know that trans people need to change legal docuements and birth certificates in many countries all over the world so they could finally live at peace as who they are, it's the reason they transition in the first place, pronouns go along with that of course. Do you mean pronouns like "They" instead of he or she? But that is still up to people to tell us who they are, and we need to respect that. Why should it be someone else defining who you are for you, how would that feel if someone came up with a name for you and forbidden you to use your own name that your parents have given you?

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[–] fani (375) 2 years ago

Yes. Long established English pronouns should not be changed. Look, I'm a liberal Democrat and I strongly support all rights for them but I'm opposed to changing established language when new terms can be invented.

Also I can understand someone making a request but it's up to me to accept that or not for an establish language grammar. They is plural, not singular.

What if I want people to call me "your highness" or just "lord", would that be ok and respected and others have to change and call me that always because why should someone else define for me?

I think both sides should understand this is a shared world and one shouldn't trump the other here. They deserve full rights but they shouldn't force people to accept changes to pronouns and biological established terms. There's medical sex/gender which is binary and then there's what you prefer but science always should trump other preferences since that is the ultimate truth

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[–] Starman (412) 2 years ago

Except that is common decency, if you do not acknowledge who they are (in their brain), then you are delusional yourself about the reality of how they live and exist for themselves, and unable to accept it, so they have every right to cancel you or get rid of you out of self respect. So misgendering on purpose is a LITERAL hate crime, absolutely literal, because you care more about yourself than others. Learn what love means first, it means sacrifice and surrender of OUR own beliefs. They are the gender they say they are, otherwise they would not transition. So what people like you represent is the opprecive force no different from governments, so you deserve to reap what you sow by receiving the same kind of oppression from others. If someone can not learn how to respect others, they are bound not to be co-existing around them, whether it's job space or various platforms. It's a common sense, absolutely unbeliable there are some bozos out there who still don't get it, something so simple and obvious. Learn to be a human or get out of this planet.

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[–] whynotwriteme (7129) 2 years ago

So if a man tells me he is Jesus Christ or Napoleon Bonaparte, and he sincerely believes that with all his heart, then I am delusional about the reality of how he lives and exists for himself and I am unable to accept it? I am unable to sacrifice my own beliefs?

Sorry, but I am not in the habit of enabling the delusions of people suffering from mental illnesses, of which Gender Dysphoria is one. These unfortunate people should seek treatment for their problems, not inflict their delusions upon others.

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[–] Starman (412) 2 years ago

Yes!!! Isn't that obvious? They are true to themselves, it is their reality, it is the truth they're living by, which is the EXACT opposite of delusion. But your example usually comes down to psychosis, unlike gender identity that is biological and provable in physical reality. But that's beside the point, purely from a philosophical perspective we are supposed to respect, believe and validate other people's true sense of self. This is extremely important if we care about individual freedom on earth. And yes of course being trans is not a mental illness and neither gender dysphoria, lol, I have it too without ever transitioning, it's just a distress caused by the body disorder/physical handicap since birth, that's all. Beyond this distress the mind is completely healthy and fully functioning. It's obvious you have no clue what you're talking about.

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[–] whynotwriteme (7129) 2 years ago

It's more obvious that people like you are attempting to tailor reality to fit your own illusions.

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[–] Geiri (845) 2 years ago

Both sides are full of hypocrites.

The way I see it kids shouldn't be indoctrinated with religion in schools, or at least not in public schools.

When I say religion I mean both theistic ones like Christianity and also the social justice type. Not all religion has a God. The left is very religious these days when you think about it, ironically.

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[–] samoanjoes (51131) 2 years ago

If someone said 1+1=3, wouldn't you want to correct them?

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[–] sslssg (28031) 2 years ago

Gender isn't empirical like 1+1 is.

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[–] samoanjoes (51131) 2 years ago

XX/XY? That's how they know someone who has both sets are hermaphrodites. Anything else afterwards are attributes like the way they dress.

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[–] sslssg (28031) 2 years ago

That's biological sex.

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[–] samoanjoes (51131) 2 years ago

I know. I said anything after that like the way you feel are attributes, not gender. If gender was how someone feels, then that can open the door to anything. I've seen people on talk shows who believe they're a robot.

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[–] sslssg (28031) 2 years ago

So you do not think that there are gender roles in society?

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[–] samoanjoes (51131) 2 years ago

There are definitely gender roles, but that doesn't mean they are actually that gender. I'm a straight dude who was told that I can't play with dolls because only girls do, but if I did, that doesn't make me a girl.

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[–] sslssg (28031) 2 years ago

It's a lot more complicated than just wanting to play with dolls. Obviously, we cannot understand what one is going through when they are trans if we are not. I'm just really, really surprised at how many people care and need to be an authority on something they know nothing about.

Science and medicine don't have all the answers yet, so I think it's pretty arrogant of many of the replies on here to say what is and what isn't. Trans people aren't hurting anyone by simply existing.

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[–] samoanjoes (51131) 2 years ago

Trans people aren't hurting anyone by simply existing.

It depends. Trans people in general, no. But the ones who believe they are really the gender they transitioned to can. If a kid tells their parents that they're trans, the parents aren't allowed to intervene. A parent can't just tell their kid to wait until they're an adult to transition. The law says that's going against "gender affirming care" for children. I wouldn't think too highly if I had a 7-year-old son who said he felt like a girl, and I was forced to allow my son to have a sex change because the law said so.

And then you have laws like in the UK where believing that trans women aren't real women constitutes as hate speech. Even if you don't say it to their face. This woman had to resign from her owndance company because she said trans women weren't real woman at a party she threw at her own house. https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-59584638. What's next, arresting people for saying global warming doesn't exist because I'm spreading hateful propaganda which could inflict harm on the earth?

And then you have the topic of diseases. For example: men are 3 times more likely to develop liver cancer compared to women. If we just went by how someone feels their gender is, these numbers become skewed.

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[–] sslssg (28031) 2 years ago

If you want to talk about children surgically transitioning that is a topic that I think needs to be addressed. There are hormonal issues, and choosing to make life changing decisions before being an adult are things which could have negative consequences. Sure.

How does that affect you?

Why would anyone need to make comments about trans people not being the gender they identify as? Seriously? People say that you can't just choose to be a man, and yet there is the idea that Cis men have to "man up", or "Your not a real man". Seriously. What makes someone with a penis "a man" If it is just a penis then why is there so much vernacular in regards "making a man" if it's not behaviour, belief, and attitude?

I would hope that medical community is a little more detailed.

Look. We've had this discussion before. I know I'm never going to convince you of anything, I just really don't understand why you care or why you think you know more than the scientific community trying to figure this out.

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[–] samoanjoes (51131) 2 years ago

How does that affect you?

As I said, trans people who feel they are a different gender but know they aren't really that gender and transition are no issue with me. I completely understand how someone can feel that way. Honestly, I can even understand someone who says they don't feel human. But the examples I gave in the previous posts are about the ones who say they really are that gender.

People say that you can't just choose to be a man, and yet there is the idea that Cis men have to "man up", or "Your not a real man".

I agree, it's stupid. I've never said that to anyone. I've only told people to grow up.

I just really don't understand why you care or why you think you know more than the scientific community trying to figure this out.

Because nothing has been 100% proven and yet they're creating these ridiculous laws around this to silence people who question the legitimacy of it. The fact that the issue can't even be discussed is a problem. Doctors themselves are scared to speak their opinions because a mob comes after them. This Canadian doctor explains it in only a minute:

https://twitter.com/dailywireplus/status/1565876007994884097?t=1e_2eO74aqpmGQYFtFxQ0w&s=19

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[–] sslssg (28031) 2 years ago

Yet Dr. Soh has appeared in this movie, has a podcast, and has written a book. So is she really afraid to be silenced? Or did she just decide there is more money not researching? She hasn't been silenced.

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[–] samoanjoes (51131) 2 years ago

Some people get fired for it, some don't:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.out.com/transgender/2019/10/04/panel-rules-doctor-doesnt-have-right-misgender-trans-patients%3famp

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/02/09/james-caspian-transgender-trans-bath-spa-european-court-human-rights/

https://www.premierchristianity.com/opinion/you-can-be-fired-for-not-using-a-trans-persons-preferred-pronoun-but-this-case-could-change-that/6170.article

Other professions:
https://www.cp24.com/entertainment-news/former-winnipeg-dj-sues-after-being-fired-for-comments-about-transgender-people-1.4104384

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2634131-curt-schilling-posts-anti-transgender-comments-on-facebook.amp.html

https://perezhilton.com/jason-aldean-fired-pr-firm-brittany-aldean-transphobia-tucker-carlson/ (fired by association)

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/06/maya-forstater-was-discriminated-against-over-gender-critical-beliefs-tribunal-rules

https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/too-faced-cosmetics-co-founder-fires-sister-over-nikki-tutorials-n1116641?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

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[–] sslssg (28031) 2 years ago

Getting fired for not using someone's preferred pronoun is something I support. So that is that. Sorry, but a pronoun is like a name. If I change my name, and you refuse to use it, then yeah, why shouldn't you get fired if you are my doctor or teacher? A pronoun is just a word that refers to a person aka the noun.

With the James Caspian research, I do think it's unfortunate that the University wouldn't let him continue, but their response was

"His research proposal was not refused because of the subject matter, but rather because of his proposed methodological approach.

"The university was not satisfied this approach would guarantee the anonymity of his participants or the confidentiality of the data."

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/bath-spa-university-james-caspian-2557060

If that's the case, I don't know, but I also don't see where he can't get funding elsewhere to continue that research. I do think that is a good study to have out there.

As for the other links, people get fired all the time for making comments about any hot button issue, not just transgenderism, so that is more of a commentary on cancel culture itself. Other than trans being included with hate speech in some places, I'm not really seeing where it is illegal to speak on transgenderism in Western society. I still think that trans people have it much worse around the world than people who want to tell them that they are wrong.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiewareham/2020/09/30/this-is-where-its-illegal-to-be-transgender-in-2020/?sh=4f5bc44f5748

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[–] samoanjoes (51131) 2 years ago

Getting fired for not using someone's preferred pronoun is something I support.

That's fine. Others don't agree and that's why they call it out. People automatically throw out "transphobe" in that case.

With the James Caspian research, I do think it's unfortunate that the University wouldn't let him continue, but their response was...

What I got from their response is that they didn't want him to even attempt to research anything because it would look bad on the university.

As for the other links, people get fired all the time for making comments about any hot button issue, not just transgenderism, so that is more of a commentary on cancel culture itself.

I think it depends. If I go up to someone transgender and continue to call them a "tranny", by all means, I should be convicted. That would be outright harassment and using a slur to do it on purpose. But people losing their jobs (like the link I gave earlier) because she said at her house during her own party that trans women aren't real women, seems unjustified. That is having an opinion in your home. If you start interfering in that, we enter dangerous waters.

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[–] sslssg (28031) 2 years ago

I haven't called anyone a transphobe, because the way I see it, it's not a phobia, it's just being an asshole. The people who still refer to Elliot Page as Ellen for example. Their name is changed to Elliot. Call them Elliot. I don't see people on Charlie Sheen's page insisting on calling him Carlos. With preferred pronouns, it's the same thing. It's what someone wishes to be called. That's it. If someone says call me Al; call them Al.

Losing jobs has nothing to do with government and laws. If people feel they were fired unjustly, they can take their employer to court. The doctor in the first link, stated that he was fired for his beliefs, yet

has further called “transgenderism” a “delusional belief,”

So there are people who think that believing in a man in the sky is a delusional belief. Why should his belief trump someone else's? And again, the employer is saying that he was given the option, and the doctor chose to leave.

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[–] samoanjoes (51131) 2 years ago

I haven't called anyone a transphobe, because the way I see it, it's not a phobia, it's just being an asshole.

People like myself are skeptical calling them by their "preferred pronoun" because I feel like I'm encouraging something that I feel isn't true. I wouldn't agree with someone who is anorexic who says they are fat, so I'm not going to tell them that they are in fact fat. If someone said the earth was flat, I'm not going to go along with it to please them when I don't believe it to be true.

has further called “transgenderism” a “delusional belief,”

While I think "delusion" is a harsh word, gender dysphoria is considered a mental illness.

"A diagnosis for gender dysphoria is included in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorder (DSM-5), a manual published by the American Psychiatric Association. The diagnosis was created to help people with gender dysphoria get access to necessary health care and effective treatment. The term focuses on discomfort as the problem, rather than identity."
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms-causes/syc-20475255

""Some people who are transgender will experience “gender dysphoria,” which refers to psychological distress that results from an incongruence between one’s sex assigned at birth and one’s gender identity.
https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria

How can I justify calling people the gender they believe they are, and not do the same for someone who believes their weight is different, or schizophrenics who believe they see someone that isn't there?

I don't see people on Charlie Sheen's page insisting on calling him Carlos.

Charlie Sheen knows his real name isn't Charlie. He's not claiming otherwise. And if that's the case, shouldn't there be a law against it like they have with transgender people and deadnaming?

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[–] sslssg (28031) 2 years ago

How can I justify calling people the gender they believe they are, and not do the same for someone who believes their weight is different, or schizophrenics who believe they see someone that isn't there?

Sorry, forgot to include this in my last reply.

When how would treat someone with anorexia? Or a schizophrenic? Would you encourage them to get treatment? Or would you tell them that they are delusional? Do you argue with someone who has dementia? If being trans is a mental/medical disorder, then why would they not deserve the same respect as someone who has the disorders you've mentioned? There is no pill for transgenderism. There isn't a treatment that I am aware of at this moment. I think right now the treatment is to let them live as who they want to be. If a schizophrenic was receiving treatment, not hurting anyone or themselves, but had certain delusions that wouldn't go away, would you waste your time arguing with them on a daily basis or would you just accept that that is who and how they are and just move on with your life?

Do you not think that most trans people (and I am speaking about true trans people) wouldn't like to just feel right, and normal? If they can get that feeling by transitioning, who is to say that it isn't the correct treatment? If they don't, then I think there should be research into what other ways they can be helped. I don't think that ridiculing them, or constantly saying that they are wrong is helping anyone.

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[–] samoanjoes (51131) 2 years ago

I would encourage them to get help as any other mental issue. I'm aware there isn't a pill or a "cure", but I wouldn't tell someone who is depressed to continue slitting their wrists because it made the, feel better. This is one of those tough battles that they have to continue to live with.

? If they can get that feeling by transitioning, who is to say that it isn't the correct treatment?

And this is where the forced laws come in. "Believe this way, or be fired" is not the way to go about it.

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[–] sslssg (28031) 2 years ago

Okay, you just said that you don't know what the cure is, so you also don't know that transitioning isn't the cure. Some people do really well after transitioning.

What does transitioning as a treatment have to be believe it this way or be fired? Doctors in Canada have a right not treat someone for specific things if it goes against their religion. They just have to be compassionate and direct them towards someone who can help them. That's it.

Now if the doctor in question is making derogatory comments about said patient, and belittling them, then the deserve to be fired.

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[–] samoanjoes (51131) 2 years ago

So there are people who think that believing in a man in the sky is a delusional belief. Why should his belief trump someone else's? And again, the employer is saying that he was given the option, and the doctor chose to leave.

Believe it or don't. I have never heard anyone get fired for saying God doesn't exist. People can look at God as literal or figurative.

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[–] sslssg (28031) 2 years ago

Believe it or don't. I have never heard anyone get fired for saying God doesn't exist. People can look at God as literal or figurative.

Maybe not, but I have heard of people not getting medical care, medications, the right to be married(and I'm not just speaking on gay marriage), the right to housing (Indiana senate bill 50), and then there is this lawsuit....https://www.ladbible.com/news/latest-atheist-worker-fired-didnt-attend-christian-prayer-meetings-20220629

So yeah.

I'm not saying that I have the answers, or even that I understand what is happening inside someone with gender dysphoria or someone who is trans, but I know that I'm not the person who can "fix" anyone, so what does it do, to be mean to people. I hear the, "I don't say it to their faces" but saying on a board like this where anyone can read is saying it "to their face".

The point I'm making with Charlie Sheen is that when someone changes their name, people call them by that name. Maybe he was a bad example as I know his dad regrets having a stage name and never legally changed it. But... someone who has legally changed their name, that new name is their "real" name, and to say that it isn't, is wrong. What is a real name? A name someone else gave you at birth? If so, my legal name that I've had since I was 2 months old isn't my real name, and the name that I've been going by for the last 30 years isn't my real name either according to that.

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[–] samoanjoes (51131) 2 years ago

Let's say your name was Jane, but you want to be called Jill, you are aware your birth name is Jane. Trans people actually believe they were born in the wrong body, almost as if they never really existed.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (8550) 2 years ago

Why do you care? They look at the world differently from the way you see things. So what?

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[–] samoanjoes (51131) 2 years ago

Tell that to trans men paying in women's sports. I also gave the example of diseases way up above. Breast cancer affects very few men, but if someone identifies as the gender they weren't born with and writes down their transitioned gender, then the numbers become skewed.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (8550) 2 years ago

> But people losing their jobs (like the link I gave earlier) because she said at her house during her own party that trans women aren't real women, seems unjustified.

That depends on if the party was some clique of people at the job that the harasser is trying to demean and diminish and set up a climate of hate against that person.

If someone was working with black people and had a party of all white people at their home, and started talking about how much they hated working with ... whatever term ... I don't even think they would have to use pejorative terms, they are setting up a hostile workplace. That doesn't just happen at work during working hours. Society has to take one stand or the other, and the stand a civilized society takes is to stand up for the rights of the weak and minorities.

The problem with Republicans, and specifically the ( as Biden calls them ) MAGA Republicans is that they are doing what the Nazis did before they took power began normalizing violence - dehumanizing certain groups. That is a human rights abuse. They are appealing to the worse nature of people and trying to make it a right, under free speech to attack and dehumanize people.

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[–] samoanjoes (51131) 2 years ago

Everyone said the comment was in passing. It wasn't a "Dinner for Schmucks" thing.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (8550) 2 years ago

I don't know what that means, but the scenario of a majority group conspiring against a minority or single individual is what I am talking about.

You said that in general that seems OK, and firing would not be justified. Care to clarify that?

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[–] samoanjoes (51131) 2 years ago

What you said is the premise of "Dinner for Schmucks". People are invited to dinner just to be made fun of.

You said that in general that seems OK, and firing would not be justified. Care to clarify that?

The example I have wasn't a case of inviting people over and they started making fun of them. It was a regular conversation and the host of the party said that she didn't believe trans women were real women and they moved on. The next day, there were a series of complaints that she said it and was forced to step down.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (8550) 2 years ago

Was the host of the party a worker or a manager/supervisor?

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[–] samoanjoes (51131) 2 years ago

She owned the studio.

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[–] asom (6511) 2 years ago

"Sorry, but a pronoun is like a name. "

Sorry but NO, it's NOT.

"A pronoun is just a word that refers to a person aka the noun." exactly, and there's no need to change it.

And even if, let's say, you would have some logic behind it (you don't) when you change your name you do it legally and it's recorded. Good look legally changing your pronouns.

BTW, my pronouns are "Mr. amazing smart" - if you don't use them when you're addressing to me you are a fucking transphobe and you should be banned from this forum.

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[–] sslssg (28031) 2 years ago

If you changed your name to "Mr. Amazing Smart" then legally I would have to call you that, but Mr. Amazing Smart is not actually a pronoun as it is an actual noun (Mr.) with adjectives.

If a pronoun means nothing, then why does it matter if you change it?

And even if, let's say, you would have some logic behind it (you don't) when you change your name you do it legally and it's recorded.

So if a transperson legally changes their name, why would it be okay for people to continue to use their birth name?

If I want to be referred to as they/them because it doesn't gender me, why is it an issue? Why don't we do that for everyone? Automatically, when I am referred to as "she" which is my preferred pronoun, there is an expectation. If I were 6'6", muscular in appearance, with a beard, are you going to be comfortable calling me she?

Again, I have not called anyone transphobe, I just think that there are a lot of people here who have probably never even met a trans person who are complaining about their existence, who have nothing to contribute other than transpeople are wrong, or delusional, without offering any sort of scientific insight or treatments which could actually help. I've seen comments that trans people would be better off dead. I've seen comments about their genitals. I've seen comments that it's being shoved in their faces, yet they are are the ones continually bringing it up.

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[–] asom (6511) 2 years ago

"If you changed your name to "Mr. Amazing Smart" then legally I would have to call you that, but Mr. Amazing Smart is not actually a pronoun as it is an actual noun (Mr.) with adjectives."

Zee is not a pronoun either. If people argue that zee is a pronoun and that I have to use it then you have to use "Mr. Amazing Smart" because I say that it is a pronoun.

And according to you if anyone says that something is something that is not then we have to automatically agree and use that.

"So if a transperson legally changes their name, why would it be okay for people to continue to use their birth name?" - that was my point, that they LEGALLY CHANGED it so they are in the right to be called by the new name.

"If I want to be referred to as they/them because it doesn't gender me, why is it an issue?" because sex genders you. Unless you lack genitalia and the genes that come with the sex then you are a he or a she. Period.

" If I were 6'6", muscular in appearance, with a beard, are you going to be comfortable calling me she?" NO. Because I KNOW that you are NOT a she.

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[–] sslssg (28031) 2 years ago

And yet there are cis women who are 6'6". There are women with beards. There are muscular women. There may even be all that in one woman, although she probably waxes or shaves the beard so that people don't attack her.

We are at least in agreement if a trans person changes their name legally, than legally, they should be referred to as that name.

Again, sex and gender may or may not be the same thing as science and psychology are rather confusing in that regard. I can bring up many studies and papers that will state that they are different. So, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not a biologist, a psychologist, psychiatrist, or a physiologist. So I don't KNOW how it really works with trans individuals. I'm not trying to convince you that it is more than simply the fact that I have a vagina that makes me a woman. Biologically I know I am female, does that make me a "woman" by society's standards? I don't know and I don't care. It's not a hill I'm going to even climb let alone die on. I just know that if someone wants to be called Jim, and for me to refer to them as he instead of she, I don't care. If it helps them not want to kill themselves, then fuck yes, I'm going to try to help them. If you know of a suggestion, or another treatment that will make trans people "better", then please tell the world. Suicide and suicide attempt rates within the trans community are between 30-50% depending on where you are in the world. I'm not cool with that.

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[–] asom (6511) 2 years ago

"Biologically I know I am female, does that make me a "woman" by society's standards?"

That makes you a woman by definition. Period.

"Suicide and suicide attempt rates within the trans community are between 30-50% depending on where you are in the world. I'm not cool with that"

So that proves that transitioning doesn't work? Doesn't improve their lives?

" If you know of a suggestion, or another treatment that will make trans people "better"

Psychological and psihiatric help. But we cannot talk about that because "would hurt them".

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (8550) 2 years ago

You're just daft. A pronoun carries with it a certain connotation. If you consistently refer to a man as a lady you are harassing that person. Or someone as an it.

> BTW, my pronouns are "Mr. amazing smart"

You're not smart if you never learned what a pronoun is.

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[–] asom (6511) 2 years ago

"You're just daft. A pronoun carries with it a certain connotation. "

Exactly. And that connotation IS the gender which IS the sex.

Is not me that don't understand what a pronoun is and that it CANNOT BE CHOSEN. Because it represents what you ARE, NOT what you think you are.

"You're not smart if you never learned what a pronoun is."

You're dumb if you didn't get my sarcasm and why I use those words.

"You're not smart if you never learned what a pronoun is." btw, think a bit about this phrase of yours. But think hard. Or read a dictionary:

"smart: having or showing a quick-witted intelligence."

No, smart and having knowledge about some things are not the same. You can be smart and ignorant or know a lot of things and still be dumb.

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[–] asom (6511) 2 years ago

Gender is sex.

And there are gender roles. That doesn't mean that if you don't conform to a gender role you are a different gender.

And your statement "gender is not sex" is utterly stupid when you start to talk about transgender and sex changed surgically.

If gender is not the same as sex ... WHY do the transgender go through sex reaffirmation surgeries??? The term itself literally should not exist if the gender is not related to sex and anyone can be whatever gender they want.

So woman, man, are related to sex. No, woman sports were not called like that to allow people that like pink to compete in the same race but to allow persons with certain biological traits (sex, hormones, etc) to compete on a fair field against each other.

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[–] sslssg (28031) 2 years ago

Gender is sex

There are many others who disagree with you. I don't have the answer as to if it is or isn't. I'm not going to argue if it is or isn't, I'm just saying "don't be a jerk." These countless posts on how trans people aren't the gender they claim to be aren't changing anything for good or bad.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (8550) 2 years ago

> There are many others who disagree with you.

Mostly the dictionary.

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[–] asom (6511) 2 years ago

When was the last time you read a dictionary???

Woman: an adult female human being.

I love when idiots prank themselves.

Of course the leftists idiots are trying to push and replace the definition, but that has been the definition since like ... forever and the changes are new, pushed by ideologically possessed people.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (8550) 2 years ago

> I love when idiots prank themselves.

This is why you people will be your own downfall. You simply do not understand the concepts of civilization and society, and you constantly insult, abuse, exploit and in general force people to disagree with you and then gang up and bully or mistreat them. You people are sick and all the insults and attacks on other people just make you worse.

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[–] asom (6511) 2 years ago

" You simply do not understand the concepts of civilization and society, and you constantly insult, abuse, exploit and in general force people to disagree with you and then gang up and bully or mistreat them. "

REALLY??? AND YOU ARE SAYING THIS?? This is SO FUCKING hilarious.

How did I force you to disagree?

Anyway, I see that you failed to acknowledge that you're wrong (as usually) even with the evidence in your face ... as usually. And it's not that I force you to disagree, you disagree even when the evidence shows the contrary.

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[–] Miyagido (2944) 2 years ago

Prove gender exists.

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[–] fani (375) 2 years ago

Not if they don't follow that 1+1=3 and if it doesn't impact me.

This analogy is flawed. The better analogy is - if someone gets a C at an exam, will you help them study and get an A or just go about your business?

The point is for both sides. i.e. if people want to have marriages or abortions or call themselves whatever, it is their choice and I am fine with it. But if they want to dictate that someone else call them new terms or change existing terms, then that is wrong as well. (the same 1+1=3)

Essentially people should ignore what they don't like instead of barging in and trying to get others to change for them. (both sides)

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[–] ccr1633 (1424) 2 years ago

Genocide in a land 5000 miles away doesn't directly affect you either. Yet you might be repulsed by it, and even support a military intervention to prevent it. With transgenderism, there is now a profitable medical industry behind "gender affirming surgery." Young children who probably don't know the birds from the bees in some cases have had life altering surgery or, more commonly, hormone therapy with relatively unknown consequences. There's a moral issue involved that transcends live and let live, and it's not just an objection to pro-transgender forces attempting to alter the rules and conventions (e.g. k-12 education) that we're all nominally supposed to live by.

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[–] BillySlater (4108) 2 years ago

That analogy is not good either, its more like someone gets a C on an exam, they refuse to accept the result and say they got an A. You, fearing offending them, agree with them that they got an A.

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[–] samoanjoes (51131) 2 years ago

Exactly. And don't forget being called an examphobe.

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[–] fani (375) 2 years ago

That's a good analogy and I agree

But that's my core point. Both sides should not distort and force others to accept their view.

And the view is as determined medically.

You might want to call your grade A and that is fine. However you cannot force others to call a C an A.

Similarly if they want to call their C an A, it doesn't affect you and you just ignore them.

Obviously unless they use it to get over you in things unfairly. Then it's fine to protest that. E.g. athletes in sports

These are complex topics imo and not simple black and white.

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[–] samoanjoes (51131) 2 years ago

BillySlater's response was exactly what I was going to say.

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[–] legnadibrom (5731) 2 years ago

people don't actually care, but political grifters like this ugly guy on the cover of this movie poster keep forcing this crap into our daily dose of bullshit we cannot escape

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[–] JohnnyDoe (1722) 2 years ago

or he's reacting to those that

keep forcing this crap into our daily dose of bullshit we cannot escape

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[–] stickman38 (3017) 2 years ago

It's become a hot-button issue. It's talked about quite a bit in political forums.

We even have a member of the Supreme Court that can't define what a woman is. It's become just a little ridiculous. Not to mention that it's become kind of trendy to act like you're the opposite sex nowadays and that's really just plain ridiculous.

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[–] StrongRex (1290) 2 years ago

So you want no standards of right and wrong.

Why don’t you mind your own business and let us thieve in peace?

Why don’t you mind your own business and let us murder in peace?

You see where I’m going with this?

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[–] fani (375) 2 years ago

This is a flawed analogy. Felonies are felonies, regardless of which side commits it because both sides have agreed to live in a society with these ground rules.

If a society then says gay marriage is legal and abortion is legal, then both sides should accept it or petition their govt to change it.

So you can't make your statements that way.

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[–] ccr1633 (1424) 2 years ago

"This is a flawed analogy. Felonies are felonies, regardless of which side commits it"

Yes, but some people like me think it should be a felony for clinicians to perform any sort of gender-affirming surgery or hormone therapy on kids as young as 14 (in the USA at least). The World Professional Association for Transgender Health recently lowered their recommended minimum age for such treatments to 14.

https://apnews.com/article/gender-transition-treatment-guidelines-9dbe54f670a3a0f5f2831c2bf14f9bbb

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[–] fani (375) 2 years ago

Yes and you have the freedom to protest that, at least in free and fair first world nations.

If doctors determine it is safe (abortion or these) then it's something the govt should allow listening to experts in science and that's the law.

If legal and some family wants to get it done, it's their choice and right. None of our business.

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[–] ccr1633 (1424) 2 years ago

"If legal and some family wants to get it done, it's their choice and right. None of our business."

Nah. Slavery was legal. Drinking alcohol was illegal during prohibition. In some states it used to be illegal to teach the theory of evolution. What the law permits or doesn't permit doesn't always stand the morally-just test of time. Sometimes bad laws have to be fought and overturned, and sometimes permissible activity quashed through the creation of new laws. Allowing adults to butcher for profit the bodies of kids and altering their natural development -- kids deemed too young to vote, drive, or take a sip of alcohol -- is outrageous.

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[–] fani (375) 2 years ago

The ques is who determines a law is bad? While it is true laws change to reflect society, the idea is society is improving for the better as we mature more.

Slavery, alcohol, evolution laws are all changed for the better.

Similarly abortion too but we have regressed now.

Re. my comment, I was referring really to abortion. It's a doctor issue. Gender therapy and all that is something I'm not in favor of for children.

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[–] StrongRex (1290) 2 years ago

I’ll make my statements any way I want. Don’t tell me what to do.

And if something wrong or evil is made legal, I will most definitely not accept it.

That goes especially for this gender ideology. If you are a man, it is impossible for you to change into a woman and vice versa because you are born either male or female. If you think you are a woman trapped in a man’s body, you need to seek professional help because you are not living in reality.

It is one thing to do this with an adult who is not living in reality, and any “doctor” who does needs to be in prison for the rest of their lives. That goes double for the ones who do this with children, as well as the adults, including the parents and teachers, in that child’s life that are teaching them that they can change their sex.

And since you brought up abortion, it is nothing less than the murder of an innocent baby. So any doctors who perform abortions need to be in prison too.

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[–] fani (375) 2 years ago

"If you think you are a woman trapped in a man’s body, you need to seek professional help because you are not living in reality"

And what if the professional prescribes some gender therapy or sex change or whatever they medical doctors decide for a consenting adult? I can maybe debate for kids but for adults, how is it your decision here and not theirs?

Re. abortion, fetus is not a baby.

You may not accept something because you think it is wrong and evil despite being legal. Then if this is fine what if someone else wants the opposite on another topic?

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[–] StrongRex (1290) 2 years ago

“And what if the professional prescribes some gender therapy or sex change or whatever they medical doctors decide for a consenting adult?”

You are whatever your chromosomes and your DNA determines. Period. It is impossible to consent to something like this, because no sane person in their right mind would ever agree to this. I don’t care what any “professional doctor” says - they are not only quacks, but they are criminals who deserve to be in prison.

“ I can maybe debate for kids but for adults, how is it your decision here and not theirs?”

How is it your decision and not mine if I cut my leg off? How is it your decision and not mine to swallow acetone? How is it your decision and not mine to poke my eyeballs out of my sockets?

“Re. abortion, fetus is not a baby.”

Now who is denying science?

It is a baby. Fetus is just a stage in development for human beings, like toddler or adolescent, or elderly. It doesn’t change the fact that it’s a human deserving of life.
It’s right there in the constitution, making all allowances for abortion null and void.

“You may not accept something because you think it is wrong and evil despite being legal. Then if this is fine what if someone else wants the opposite on another topic?“

As someone mentioned, slavery was legal at one point. It was also legal to mistreat, persecute, and murder certain types of people in Nazi Germany. Bad laws should be opposed and taken down. Anyone who sides with them is on the wrong side of history.

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[–] fani (375) 2 years ago

A fetus is not a baby. It's like claiming ground wheat flour is a cake. We have science and we go by science. If you don't accept science, then there's nothing mutual common ground here. Fetal viability is when a consideration is made for the "baby" which is around 5months (long enough for the woman to consider aborting) and abortions should be possible and available till fetal viability. You can't take a 2 week old blastocyst or embryo and call it a baby. It's frankly asinine.

Again, slavery is illegal. We now are a better society so per today's laws you can't have slavery.

Re. an adults seeking professional help and doctors telling them what to do - it is true and happens daily. You may not like it but it is none of your business if they want to take sex change or drugs or whatnot.

It is indeed like you cutting off your leg. You're responsible for your own actions. Of course, we can try to stop you from this folly by giving our advice but ultimately you can ignore it and we'll ignore you. it's like homeless people doing drugs or sleeping and peeing on the street or doing something crazy like hitting their head on the wall. Do you interfere?

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[–] StrongRex (1290) 2 years ago

No, what is asinine is you condoning homicide. It is a scientific fact that life begins at conception, and you are the one not accepting science. It is no different than the thousands of years of child sacrifice taking place in other cultures.

Abortion absolutely needs to be criminalized, not allowed with regulation. It needs to be treated exactly as it is, which is mothers murdering their own children. Abortion must be abolished, and I will fight until my dying breath to see to it that happens.

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[–] StrongRex (1290) 2 years ago

Speaking of hitting one’s head on the wall, if it is not obvious to you how insane and incoherent your talking points are on the gender thing, there is no hope for you.

You’ll claim that the statement “life begins at conception” is unscientific - which is false - because you want the option to kill your child for any reason. Then you throw biology even further out the window by subscribing to the beyond ludicrous notion that men can be women and vice versa.

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[–] milesdyson101 (192) 2 years ago

Because beliefs don't exist in a vacuum, they have real world consequences

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[–] Miyagido (2944) 2 years ago

Exactly right.

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