MovieChat Forums > Hawkeye (2021) Discussion > Weird decision to put Kingpin in a Hawai...

Weird decision to put Kingpin in a Hawaiian shirt


Kingpin only wore that red Hawaiian shirt ensemble once in the comics. It was in a storyline called “Amazing Spider-Man: Family Business” that was set in Africa, which has a hot climate.

Why the creators of “Hawkeye” had Fisk dressed in a summer outfit during the New York winter is baffling to me. It ignores the context of why he wore those clothes in the comic, just to give the audience a visual Easter Egg. It also looked ridiculous.

People are theorizing that the Netflix series are another part of the MCU Multiverse, which is why the two Fisks are so different.

Personally, I just think this was an embarrassingly poor use of the character after how deftly he was handled by other creators on Netflix.

reply

Especially wearing it under his suit, that is just not Kingpin, at least not the one from daredevil.

reply

Completely agree. At first I was thinking he was on his way to vacation, and got sidetracked. Also this is a character that gives Spiderman, Daredevil and the Punisher a run for their money - why would he dignify these low level characters with his time, let alone have so much trouble handling them?

I will say though that while the smaller budget showed, they managed to convey the ruthlessness and brutality of the Kingpin within the constraints of this PG13, Disnified format. He definitely deserves to be on the big screen.

reply

Vincent D'Onofrio conveyed Kingpin, as much as the script & dressing department allowed him, not the director or script writer.

reply

He couldn't still be on his way to vacation? You said at first. What changed your mind?

A hard time?! He kicked the shit out of Kate AFTER being shot with multiple arrows and hit by a car.

reply

He didn't have trouble handling them. He was only fighting with Kate, and I'd accept the portrayal that they gave where he underestimated her. If you got your ass whipped by a poodle it would only be because you wrote it off.

reply

So you think it's weird he wore a Hawaiin shirt and then point out he did it in the comics.... The problem is what then? Can you clarify that a little?

So different? Seemed like the same guy to me. Ok, stronger sure, but powers go up and down all the time according to the writing. Thor, for example. Hell, Hulk got weaker as the movies went on. What did you think was so different about him?

reply

If you failed to see the difference between the Kingpin in Daredevil and Kingpin in this show, then I don't think you were paying attention.

reply

You put effort into this comment rather than day... something like, "He was different because..." You thought this was a good use of time?

reply

I already have in my post: https://moviechat.org/tt10160804/Hawkeye/61c31e4a1777211eec998bee/Disappointing-finale-spoilers?reply=61c330bc1777211eec998c9f

They basically killed the character.

Kingpin in daredevil was a man of class & style, would not be caught dead in a red flowery shirt (is everyone gay now?), would not be so easily being put under video surveillance otherwise FBI would have gotten him long before.

They reduced Kingpin to a street thug. That is worse than killing him off.

And

In what universe Kingpin would show up in a street scene.

reply

Clearly it's my fault for not seeking out your post when making my own. How silly of me.

reply

Other than a colorful shirt, I thought Fisk acted exactly as he did on Netflix. He even had his father's cufflinks.

reply

He did, but some people just have to whine.

reply

Fisk in Netflix Daredevil would not have shown up in a street scene, he was not a street thug, he was too smart for that. But in this show, not anymore.

reply

In the Daredevil show, Kingpin decapitated a guy with a car door in a parking lot. He was not above getting his hands dirty in public when he was angry enough.

reply

And in that scene he was surround by his men, there was no witness, it was a controlled environment.

In this show it is really the streets. He was alone, there was no back up, there was not even a car and driver waiting for him. Did he show up in one of tracksuits vans or subway?

What do you think now?

reply

I think you're right.

reply

In Daredevil, even his second was surrounded by bodyguards, all professional, coordinated, wearing suits in SUVs. In this one all his goons were wearing tracksuits, low class street goons.

Does he look "Kingpin", or owning the city to you?

reply

No, but even in the comic book, he sometimes loses his position at the top and has to fight his way back up.

reply

We are not talking about the comic books. MCU I think you realized is very different from comic books.

We love, at least I love the Kingpin in Daredevil and that is why I think Daredevil as a show is above all else, not because Murdock, but because of Kingpin.

I don't love the Kingpin in the new Disney owned MCU. They ruined him, at least for me.

reply

Also even in this show he was not at the bottom. Bishop security was very successful and was only a part of his organization.

Bishops living in penthouses, "Kingpin" supposed to be a lot richer and more powerful than the Bishops. But look to me Eleanor can just hire a black widow and get rid of him. I mean what is the problem? Kingpin looked like a nobody. Why would Eleanor even be afraid of him?

I would understand Eleanor being afraid of Kingpin in Daredevil, not this fat idiot.

reply

About that...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91PjibeDP9s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Km8uPxWAvg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1AdHeIBFhI

reply

The first one he is already in custody.

The third one as I said before he was surround by his men, there was no witness, it was a controlled environment.

The second one I don't remember clearly, but as he said he lost everything, that means he had no choice.

In all cases Kingpin in Daredevil was someone to be afraid of. Not in this show. Like I said in another post I have no idea why Eleanor was even afraid of him. Just hire a black widow to get rid of him. Kingpin looked like a nobody。

Does the Kingpin in this show looked "Kingpin", or "owning the city" to you?

reply

"The first one he is already in custody."

Yes, and he staged a massive breakout involving a very public shootout involving police. I don't even need to respond to the rest of your post. That is how blatantly wrong you are.

reply

That was necessary because all other avenues were gone. It is a calculated move.

If you don't understand that then you are not smart enough to talk to me anyway.

reply

Um… are you forgetting all the street scenes in Daredevil Fisk showed up for? Maybe go back and rewatch Daredevil.

reply

It would be one thing if he did actually forgot, but this guy is just trying to defend them all after being proved to be completely and totally wrong.

reply

You can read my post just above.

reply

Oh so you moved the goal post to include his henchmen surrounding him. Except that this show had him on the street along with an entire army of Tracksuits.

reply

Following is copied from my other posts, should answer your question:

And in that scene he was surround by his men, there was no witness, it was a controlled environment.

In this show it is really the streets. He was alone, there was no back up, there was not even a car and driver waiting for him. Did he show up in one of tracksuits vans or subway?

In Daredevil, even his second was surrounded by bodyguards, all professional, coordinated, wearing suits in SUVs. In this one all his goons were wearing tracksuits, low class street goons.

Also even in this show he was not at the bottom. Bishop security was very successful and was only a part of his organization.

Bishops living in penthouses, "Kingpin" supposed to be a lot richer and more powerful than the Bishops. But look to me Eleanor can just hire a black widow and get rid of him. I mean what is the problem? Kingpin looked like a nobody. Why would Eleanor even be afraid of him?

I would understand Eleanor being afraid of Kingpin in Daredevil, not this fat idiot.

Does he look "Kingpin", or owning the city to you?

reply

Right so you’re moving the goal posts like I said. And you still don’t actually have an argument since his one episode in Hawkeye meets the criteria for most of these things when it comes to being surrounded by his men except the time he was in custody (which is funny since he didn’t get arrested in Hawkeye but got arrested a few times in Daredevil). The rest is just whining.

reply

I don't know why you don't understand this. He was arrested, his men came to bust him up, that is not him being in the streets. There is no other way.

In this episode what was the reason for him to be there? Think about it, he was there to kidnapped Eleanor Bishop, by himself, with nobody else there. Is that something a boss would do? Street kidnapping?

When Kate fighting with him have you seen any of his men? When Kingpin could barely walk where were his driver and bodyguards?

Does that look like a big boss to you?

Like I said before they turned him into a street thug.

reply

"I don't know why you don't understand this. He was arrested, his men came to bust him up, that is not him being in the streets. There is no other way."

Because your first statement was that he was never in the streets. Period. People started showing you examples of him being in the streets in Daredevil and you had ot backtrack. This is why I mentioned you moving goal posts because now there is an excuse for all of it, mostly with you mentioning Fisk's men being around. It's just that Fisk's men were around in Hawkeye too.

"In this episode what was the reason for him to be there? Think about it, he was there to kidnapped Eleanor Bishop, by himself, with nobody else there. Is that something a boss would do? Street kidnapping?"

I guess you weren't paying attention. She had evidence on Kingpin and he had his men set up to kill her. Remember Kazi with the sniper rifle? Remember all the Tracksuits swarming the building? With the two Hawkeyes running around ands beating his men senseless, Elanor was able to escape so he had to kill her himself. No kidnapping involved.

"When Kate fighting with him have you seen any of his men? When Kingpin could barely walk where were his driver and bodyguards?"

Did you miss the part where Clint and Kate defeated all his men? Or even when Echo killed his number two? Seems you really weren't paying attention much at all. But if it makes you feel better, the dead Tracksuits were across the street. It's not like he ventured far from where his men were stationed.

As for the rest of your whining, it's you assuming Fisk took the subway for whatever reason and assuming the Bishops were wealthier base don pretty much nothing.

reply

Because your first statement was that he was never in the streets. Period.

My words are:"Fisk in Netflix Daredevil would not have shown up in a street scene". So you take it as he never been outside of a door?

I guess you weren't paying attention. She had evidence on Kingpin and he had his men set up to kill her. Remember Kazi with the sniper rifle? Remember all the Tracksuits swarming the building? With the two Hawkeyes running around ands beating his men senseless, Elanor was able to escape so he had to kill her himself. No kidnapping involved.

No, a boss would stay behind of a desk waiting for Eleanor to be fetched.

Kill her? I wouldn't even bother to explain this.

I see it now. You are not smart enough to talk to me. I don't know, maybe there are a lot of more retarded people out there than I thought, at least I did not expect this level of intelligence.

I am out.

reply

"My words are:"Fisk in Netflix Daredevil would not have shown up in a street scene". So you take it as he never been outside of a door?"

Don't blame me for your bad choice of words. Did you notice how many people responded the same way I did? You were acting as if Fisk never got in a street fight. Then when it was pointed out how wrong you were it was suddenly "Oh, uh... I-I didn't mean it like that".

"No, a boss would stay behind of a desk waiting for Eleanor to be fetched."

He did until his men failed. And again, Fisk went out of his way to confront people plenty of times in Daredevil. The first time Matt met Fisk was after the fight with Nobu. Fisk went there hoping both men would be dead and took it upon himself to finish the job by tryign to beat Matt to death.

"Kill her? I wouldn't even bother to explain this."

He absolutely wanted her dead. not sure why you think otherwise.

"I am out."

In more ways than one.

reply

I finally agree with you for once. It isn't at all consistent with Fisk's portrayal in DD to have him casually just walk up and ambush Eleanor by himself in the middle of the street like that.

He would have had someone else pick her up, drive her car to an isolated location, where he would then rip her head off. Or just have someone execute her, like he originally tried to do at the party.

reply

Exactly, that is what a boss should have done.

reply

If Kingpin participated street actions in front of that many people he would have been arrested long ago. No crime boss was that stupid.

reply

Or just have someone execute her, like he originally tried to do at the party.

Even that was not a great plan.

Let's start by saying I called the other guy retarded not because the decision of killing her, but the fact @AP thought a crime boss such as Kingpin would commit murder in public, in front of a lot of people, cameras and countless cell phones. Other than retarded I don't know what to call it.

But killing her itself was not a good idea to begin with. First of all Eleanor was fully capable of carrying out her threats. She killed people, Armand III and maybe even her husband, framing the man she loved, her fiance, that is not someone to be taken lightly. Without getting rid of those evidence, killing her was not wise to say the least.

Secondly, Eleanor was valuable only because of Bishop security, which I think has been conducting illegal surveillance on Kingpin's behalf. So a wise plan would have been kidnapping both Eleanor and her daughter, threaten Eleanor with her daughter's life and forcing her to sign over the company (your signature or your daughter's brain will be on that contract.), a corporate buyout as cover story.

That would have been at least another 3 or 4 episodes, even few seasons of stories. I mean the kidnapping, the threat, Eleanor of course will be killed (ripping her head off would have been great, but might be a bit heavy for Disney channel. Kingpin and Disney channel were never a good fit, maybe that was why they killed him off).

Afterwards an revenge story of Kate (Her being alive would have been a part of the deal and Kingpin was a man of his words, well probably) with the help of Clint, Yalena and Maya. That would have done the Kingpin story arc justice.

But obviously Disney did not have the patience for a story like that, so they did a quick wrap up, in a stupid and very typical Disney cartoonish fashion.

reply

Apparently it was his choice...

"I believe that the Hawaiian shirt, white suit, and hat is from the “Family Business” comic [arc]. It’s actually my screensaver on my computer, and it has been since I started doing Daredevil years ago. So I think it came from that, [and] the aspect of the collaboration with the incredible costume people there. With Fisk, like a lot of the characters in the MCU, there’s a palette of looks that they’ve had over the years and we had a lot of to choose from. So yeah, I have input and it’s like a collaborative effort. It’s really fun being creative with the Marvel team."

reply

That is why they are actors, not directors.

Kingpin from daredevil was a man of class and style, apparently Vincent D'Onofrio not so much.

Remind me of the show "Frasier", the actor played Martin the cop father was the one knew about opera and wine, where the actor played Niles learned from him.

reply