MovieChat Forums > Game of Thrones (2011) Discussion > So no one saw Euron coming!

So no one saw Euron coming!


And he kicked the the greatest army's ass in one night. Yeah, totally believable.

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Extremely stupid .... that is why it seems to me they are just trying to sweep everything up in a whirlwind and hope they can shut it down in one series without losing it completely. More stuff like that and this will just drop the whole series down to average ... but writers, directors, actors, producers ... they've all been paid, so do they care any more ?

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Yea, I didn't care for it especially since Yara was this master captain and it seems unlikely they wouldn't be able to spot the threat from a long ways away.

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And the other thing is where were they? You need intelligence to locate fleets. They don't exactly have satellite surveillance, radar or reconnaissance drones?

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They've been giving advance warning for at least a year that they want to wrap this show, so I was prepared for stuff like this to happen. What we are seeing now was planned out a long time ago. They knew they wanted 7 seasons, but along the way realized it wasn't enough to tell the story, so they added 3 more episodes. And some stuff still had to be cut. I think most of the people involved care very much about the show, but it can only go so long before actors, writers, producers start to burn out and need to move on to new things. Knowing there is an end helps with that a lot. Especially a high profile show like this, where the lead actors are constantly getting movie offers and producers get a blank check to make whatever they want for their next project.

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Euron is a more experienced seaman and Yara was totally unexpected of the attack since they didnt know that he was forming an alliiance with Cersei.

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That hardly matters since they know he was pledged to kill them

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I'd have to question if Euron was a more experienced seaman actually. You're probably right, I don't really follow GOT that much, but Yara was commanding, sailing and working her whole life with a large fleet ... but Euron may have been sailing, but where was he commanding or really getting experience. Yara broke in to get Theon out ... now, that was a seasoned commander, strategist, leader ... who Euron sneaks into the castle and kills his father? Without a clear backstory it seems almost goofy to me, not to mention that they could build a fleet like that in what was basically overnight. That's why to me this season seems to be rushing and not the normal careful story quality of other seasons.

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The Ironborn don't build all their ships. They build some, then use those to go out and steal more when they go raiding.

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That doesn't mean he can see in the dark.

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Yeah, I had the same problem with that scene. Yara's fleets don't have lookouts? And Euron has a radar set, so he could unerringly find Yara's fleet in the dark?

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He had a much bigger fleet, more battle experience and the element of surprise.

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Honestly, I don't know if I wasn't paying attention, or it was the way the whole battle was edited, but it looked to me like it was just that one big ship. But I guess there was a fleet out there somewhere firing those fire thingies.

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The stupid thing about Euron's fleet is that it was constructed literally overnight when he ordered his people to cut down every tree on Pyke... yeah, that's not enough trees for a fleet like that or a ship of that size, buddy.

Yara not having any lookouts in her large fleet is BS as well. Where was the man yelling "enemy ship sighted!!!!" ?

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Kind of hard to miss those enormous ships of Euron's even in the dark - there should have been several watchmen set just as a matter of good practice. Even if they didn't expect to meet anyone there could also be other dangers that might crop up at sea. Kind of unbelievable to be taken like that with an attack before Euron's fleet is sighted right off their bows.

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Not just watchmen but you need scouts and spies to look for threats. It was a hamfisted device with no explanation or reason

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There was also a storm that was between his fleet and Yara's fleet. He could have been on the other side and sailed through it to attack them. It would sorta make sense because the episode is "Stormborn" and he's an Ironborn coming through the storm. Theon will probably tell Dany how it happened.

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GOT has a problem with continuation, Euron's fleet being built overnight is a good example. Another example is Littlefinger traveling to all parts of Westeros too quickly while other characters need a considerable amount of time for the same voyage. But the most damning example is Varys being in Dorne in one scene, and with Dany in Essos in the next scene of the same episode in season 6.

Maybe Euron sneaking undetected with his ships is a part of the same problem. Maybe in reality Euron attacked Yara's navy with fireballs, then an hour or so passed while he caught up with her navy, and then he boarded her ships. But the show creators were skipping scenes to get to the point, and that's why we have impression that he came out of nowhere.

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»GOT has a problem with continuation (…)«

I don’t agree.
Mostly, we don’t have any idea how much time passes between different episodes… or even different parts of a specific story arc. The different story arcs obviously even run at different time lines: Arya’s story of season 6 was probably a matter of days (at least, what happened in Braavos), while Dany’s story covered months.

The thing with Varys is one example of that: Of course he had to go from Dorne to Meereen again to tell Dany that she has new allies, and of course only after that Dany would set sail. Two scenes in very close to each other for the viewer, but weeks or probably even months between them for Varys.
That we didn’t see anything happening in the meantime, doesn’t mean that no time has passed.

GoT isn’t 24.
Sometimes, the show just skips long time frames, and it has done so from the beginning.

So, how long did it take Euron to build a new fleet?
I honestly don’t know.
I have no idea how much time has passed between him commanding his people to build a new fleet, and him actually having it. I have no idea because I don’t remember a single hint of the passage of time regarding this.
Did I miss somthing? That’s entirely possible, so point me to it.



Oh… and that Euron was able to find Yara’s fleet in dark night while on the other hand, they didn’t see him coming… yes, that was stupid.

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For a show that is 99% linear, it occasionally skips the timeline and we can't help but notice cause it's out of the character of the show. If all the other events follow the timeline, then those glaring examples I mentioned don't seem deliberate but a mistake made by crew who takes care of continuation. And those are so easily avoidable, for instance just show Varys scene in Dorne little earlier in the show, or insert a scene of Euron being busy building ships. This way everybody would be happy.

Oh… and that Euron was able to find Yara’s fleet in dark night while on the other hand, they didn’t see him coming… yes, that was stupid.


Euron being able to find Yara's fleet is actually logical cause he's been trying to kill her and Theon for quite some time. He's been tracking their movements and probably had spies inside their crew. But the part where they didn't see him coming is hard to believe, yes.

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»Euron being able to find Yara's fleet is actually logical (…)«

I was referring to Euron being able to pinpoint the exact location of the fleet in the middle of the night, while at the same time, they didn’t see him. I didn’t doubt that he knew that Yara’s fleet had to be around somewhere, maybe I wasn’t making myself clear on that.

So actually, we’re agreeing here. :-)

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Yeah, I see what you mean. Euron pinpointing the exact location was unbelievable.

I don't know how he could've done that. Maybe Yara's ships were illuminated and Euron's were in the dark, and one can see lights on the sea from miles away.

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It's quite probable that he was laying in wait along a heavily used sea lane, perhaps having been informed by spies that Yara was going to be sailing from Dragonstone to Dorne. It may be that Euron didn't know exactly where Yara would be, but established her most likely course (being an experienced sailor himself who's familiar with those waters), and waited for her to pass, and then struck when she did.

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Hmm.
Yes, this makes sense.
Next time I watched the episode, I’ll also have a close look at Yara’s ships to see if they’re illuminated in some kind.

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The stupid thing about Euron's fleet is that it was constructed literally overnight when he ordered his people to cut down every tree on Pyke...yeah, that's not enough trees for a fleet like that or a ship of that size, buddy.


Didn't the Ironmen still control part of the North? There are plenty of trees in the North.

I think the ship was already his. He was getting around somehow, and according to the books, his ship was rather infamous.

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From what I understood, the Bolton's had chased the Iron Born scum off of the Northlands shortly after Roose became Warden of the North quite a while back. I imagine that would have followed suit after Jon Snow became King in the North.

If the Iron Born made way with a lot of lumber before retreating, fine, the timeline is still really weird for, what, a few weeks and suddenly Euron has a thousand ships? Yara took off with a LOT of ships and the "best ships" last season.

Euron himself described the Iron Islands as "nothing but rocks and bird shit".

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»the timeline is still really weird for, what, a few weeks«

As I’ve said above:
I don’t remember anything that hints at the amount of time that passed between Yara leaving the Iron Islands and Euron showing up with a new fleet.
How did you get the notion that a few weeks have passed?
And not several months?
Or a year, maybe?

Yara probably already needed a few weeks to reach Meereen, and we don’t know how long she remained there until she took off again with Daenerys.


Edit:
And just to clarify – I’m not claiming a year has passed. I’m just saying: We don’t know how much time has passed. To me, it’s much like back when Jamit said: "I was chained to a wooden post, covered in my own shit, for months" – and I thought: "Huh, what, months? I thought it might have been three or four weeks or something…"
And this time, I just was thinking: "Hey, Euron’s got a brand new fleet! More time must have passed than I thought…"

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It seems to me that, at the time of the Kingsmoot, they were still in control of at least part of the western coast, if not a castle or two as well (perhaps still Deepwood Motte, which according to Westeros maps is in a woodland-rich area). I seem to remember from the books that Yara (who, in the books, was named Asha) argued in the Kingsmoot that the Ironborn should make a peace settling for what parts of the North they still controlled. If they still controlled parts of the North, they could easily have obtained lumber there. No doubt they have ships designed to transport lumber, as the Iron Islands don't appear to be rich in wood and they have to obtain it from somewhere.

Come to think of it, even without controlling Northern territory, it shouldn't be too difficult for them to land somewhere on the North's massive, sparsely populated, and mostly unguarded coastline and take what they want from some remote uninhabited area.

So, while the source of materials for Euron's fleet is unexplained, it's not impossible.

Also, we don't know how much time has passed. It was established during Tyrion's flight into exile that it takes a significant amount of time to cross the Narrow Sea. I'm fuzzy on the details but it seems to me that since Euron declared his shipbuilding program, Varys traveled from Meereen to Dorne, back to Meereen, and then with Daenerys to Dragonstone. Months would have passed at least, and if Euron was mobilizing all available labor on the Iron Islands and any remaining occupied territory, it's plausible that he could have built his thousand ships. Although maybe not all of them were of the largest size or the best quality.

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It seems to me like the Euron segments are the parts of the show that take the biggest leaps in logic at this point. At the end of last season he rallied his men to build him 1000 ships; 1000 ships from a tree-barren looking island and nevertheless they appear to have built a load in a very short space of time. Now he's surprise attacking his sister's fleet out of nowhere. To boot he's been given an end-of-level-baddie status, being pretty difficult to kill, and the've ramped up his evilness/craziness. He might even win in a battle with Brienne.

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Euron had sails identical to yaras. Even with lookouts it's probable he just blended in until he got right up next to her and then commanded his fleet to open fire. They made a big deal about showing the sail of euron ship was identical to yaras. So many people missed this.

Also, it's highly probable that at least a few of the people on yaras boats were loyal to euron. Maybe even the lookouts. Giving him information via Raven about when they were setting sail for dorne. You want to hang out in essos fine, but if my brother is on yaras ship and I'm on eurons ship and we are both in westerosi waters, the odds of us communicating directly or indirectly through other family is a million times higher. And I get the feeling that these ironborn don't keep secrets or alliances very well. But they probably talk to their mums

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