MovieChat Forums > Jamie Farr Discussion > Straight men who pretended to be gay to ...

Straight men who pretended to be gay to avoid the military.


Of course ignorant heterosexuals in the 1970's thought dressing in women's clothes was "gay".

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Um, he dressed in women's clothes, not because he was Gay, but because he was trying to get out of the Army on a Section 8.. I own up to Season 4 of M*A*S*H on DVD.. The Best seasons were with Trapper John and Henry Blake

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Pretending to be gay was a popular tactic to try and get a section 8.

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He never came on to anyone and everyone pretty much was in on the gag and knew he was straight, but the U.S Army didn't.. He even had someone visit in one episode to determine if he was a section 8 and the guy stated all he had to do was sign the dotted line and he was a free man, BUT, he'd have to refer to himself as a she for the rest of his life and he said No.. It was Dr. Sidney Freeman who interviewed him and concluded this

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I'm not sure what you're quibbling about. Section 8* lumps it all together. And gays, lesbians and bisexuals were prohibited from joining the military during the Korean War and the next 50 years.

In the 70's when MASH was on tv most straights thought gay men dressed up in women's clothes.

And add to the confusion, if Klinger was pretending to be a transvestite, those are straight men who dress in women's clothes as a sexual fetish. They don't want to be women. They sniff women's panties.

*Section 8 was a category of discharge from the United States military, used for a service member judged mentally unfit for service. Section 8 was also often given to cross-dressers, gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_8_(military)

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"In the 70's when MASH was on tv most straights thought gay men dressed up in women's clothes."

That's absolute nonsense. In the 1970s straight people knew that gay men were sexually attracted to other men. They did not think "gay" meant men dressing as women. Transvestism was regarded as an oddball activity that few men, gay or straight, participated in.

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NO...IN THE 70S...PEOPLE JUST THOUGHT IT WAS ALL THE SAME...STRAIGHT OR THE OTHER.

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My point is there has always been a stereotype that gay men are effeminate and often dress in women clothes, in addition to fucking other men.

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In the 70s most people in the mainstream weren't as enlightened as you seem to think they were.

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How old are you?

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Old enough to remember when we gay men couldn't join the military.

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But you don't remember that people in the 70s didn't equate gayness with men dressing in women's clothes, which is transvestites. If you are too young that's cool.

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No, I'm gay and I grew up in the 70's. When I was 10 years old I asked my older sister "what's a homosexual?" because I suspected I was one. She told me it was a man who dresses in women's clothes. Maybe that's where my angst over this comes from. It was a common misconception among straight people.

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Really? Nowadays, it seems mostly black people get section 8.

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The series took place in the 1950s, when a man dressing in woman's clothes was considered crazy, not gay. Klinger was trying to get out of the army based on having a psychological disorder.

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Bullshit. There are plenty of ways to pretend you're crazy. Stop ignoring the obvious.

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Bull shit to what? He stated what the show was doing. Obvious what? Bucking for section 8 by acting crazy. The show says this, tells us repeatedly. Bullshit to reality of that?

Do you WISH the whole show be refilmed with a different way of trying to act crazy? Because THAT is crazy.

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Because you're pretending that dressing in women's clothes wasn't the object of his ploy. Klinger never tries to act crazy in other respects. The issue is cross dressing.

The series took place in the 1950s, when a man dressing in woman's clothes was considered crazy, not gay.


Complete bullshit. In the 1950's the common perception was that all gay men dressed in drag.

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Perhaps you should watch the show and listen to Klinger's dialog.

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Oh it's an old show and I've seen plenty of reruns, like most people. This board is for discussion and that's what I'm doing.

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ALL THE NON STRAIGHT STUFF WAS LUMPED INTO ONE BIG RAINBOW PILE BACK THEN...WEARING WOMEN'S CLOTHES WAS THE SAME AS BLOWING DUDES TO MOST AT THE TIME.

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Klinger acting normal while wearing a dress makes it crazy. That crazy people think that what they are doing is normal is a big sign of psychosis. If a psychotic person was aware of their craziness, then they would not be crazy.

Also, the reason why the USA military never kicks Kilinger out of the army is because they know he is not crazy. Only a crazy person would volunteer for military service.

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There is also the possibility that Klinger was not crazy, but he had a transvestite sexual fetish, and got his jollies by dressing in women's clothes, but passed it off as just a ploy to get out of the military.

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I ALWAYS THOUGHT SOMETHING LIKE THAT...HE HELD ONTO THE LADIES CLOTHING THING A LONG TIME...HE GOT QUITE INTO IT TOO....HE ALWAYS SEEMED SUPER COMFORTABLE AS WELL.

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Yes, if he really wanted to get out of the military, he could have just grabbed Radar's ass.

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Whatever you think about Klinger's way of dressing or his desire for a section 8, it made for some hilarious comedy.

I remember one scene with Klinger in one of his most outrageous costumes and Colonel Blake deadpans, "That outfit might get you a section 8 after all."

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Off the top of my head I remember several episodes where Klinger pretended to be crazy in ways that had nothing to do with wearing women’s clothes. There were episodes about him having an invisible camel, eating a jeep part by part, flying on a homemade hang glider, threatening to set himself on fire. Early on he had a stateside wife which he talked about and all the other characters knew he was married to a woman. After divorcing the wife, he ultimately married a Korean woman on one of the episodes in the final season. I think you’re completely misremembering. Or maybe trolling.

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Okay, fair enough. He tried any ploy he could. But he was pretending to be gay. The main theme with him was the ladies' clothes and we all know that.

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Klinger never pretended to be gay.

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I don’t recall a single episode where he pretended to be attracted to men. And didn’t Klinger end the whole cross dressing and crazy stunts when he had to take over for Radar? In the final three or four seasons, Klinger didn’t dress in women’s clothes at all if I remember right. I’m convinced you’re trolling

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Again, that's my point. On tv in the 1970's there was NO GAY. The censors would not allow it.

Hilarious to me that the most important point of heterosexuals on this thread is to say Klinger was not gay!!! Oh noes!!! He was pretending to be gay.

I guess he got serious when he took over for Radar and had a job he liked.

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Jesus man, you wrote the provocative post and then justified it by extolling your virtue in starting dialogue about an old show. Now you’re annoyed at the dialogue.

And gay characters were portrayed in several sitcoms when MASH ran in the 1970s and 1980s. Maybe not as common as now but it occurred relatively routinely and in a positive light. Don’t get all wounded when people think your post is wrong and try to convince you.

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Yeah, name 'em on one hand. You had Dr Smith on "Lost in Space" but he was in the closet.🤣

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I recall LGBTQ characters appearing on Mary Tyler Moore, All in the Family or spinoffs, Sanford, the Jefferson’s. I don’t have every portrayal memorized but you’re moving the goalposts in first saying “there was NO GAY” on TV due to 1970s censorship and now challenging me to name every example to the contrary.

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THOSE ARE WALK ON ROLES...NOT THE SAME THING...NOT AT ALL...BILLY CRYSTAL ON SOAP 1977...GROUNDBREAKING.

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I concede your point but Onan did not qualify his argument to recurring characters. (And, the character I remember from All in the Family or Archie’s Place was recurring until she was murdered in what we’d now call a hate crime; a pretty pioneering arc which I believe occurred before Billy Crystal in Soap).

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FAIR ENOUGH...I JUST SAW AN EPISODE OF THE JEFFERSONS THE OTHER DAY WHERE GEORGE'S ARMY BUDDY SHOWS UP AND HE IS A WOMAN NOW...WHEEZY ASSUMES GEORGE IS CHEATING....FAIRLY ROUGH TREATMENT OF THE SUBJECT MATTER...BUT REMARKABLE FOR THE TIME.

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I recall that as well. Unfortunately I also remember some ugly portrayals of gay people in 1970’s era dramas where they were typically shown as psychotic serial killers. I think Norman Lear probably hated this and he definitely tried to have his sitcoms reverse those tropes.

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NO...NO THEY WERENT...BILLY CRYSTAL TOOK ALOT OF HEAT AND GOT A LOT OF PROPS FOR TAKING THE ROLE OF A GAY MAN ON SOAP WHICH STARTED IN 1977.

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There were other examples. I’m not saying it was common. But it’s b.s. to claim that MASH writers were forced to portray Klinger dressing in women’s clothes as some kind of shorthand for gay to get around censors.

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NOBODY CLAIMED THAT.

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In this very thread Onan specifically said:

“On tv in the 1970's there was NO GAY. The censors would not allow it.”

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“When MASH was on tv they couldn't say what Klinger was doing. But everybody knew […] he was pretending to be gay!”

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to claim that MASH writers were forced to portray Klinger dressing in women’s clothes as some kind of shorthand for gay to get around censors


THOSE STATEMENTS AND YOURS DO NOT LINE UP...AT THE TIME CROSS DRESSING AND GAY WERE VERY MUCH A ONE STOP SHOP IN MOST PEOPLE'S MINDS...KILINGER WAS CROSS DRESSING....THUS PRETENDING TO BE GAY....BUT HE WAS NOT GAY.

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I don’t want to recapitulate the whole thing. People here challenged the “pretending to be gay” theory with the absence of proof. Onan’s rebuttal was that era censorship prevented direct proof because “the concept of ‘gay’ couldn't be mentioned on tv” and thus they presented him as a cross dresser which “ignorant” hetero viewers would interpret as gay.

I’m certain I won’t convince you but I’ve directly quoted Onan and he does label this as his point. I argued the point inaccurate by giving a least a handful of examples of other era sitcoms where LGBTQ characters were portrayed as such without some need to resort to veiled signals to get around censors.

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YOU EXAMPLES ARE ALL WALK ON ROLES...MOST BEING THROW AWAY CHARACTERS THAT NEVER RETURN...THERE WERE NO GAY EPISODE REGULARS UNTIL BILLY CRYSTAL ON SOAP IN 1977...MR CRYSTAL RECEIVED ALL MANNER OF THREATS AND HATE FOR THE DECISION AS WELL.

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I agree on your point about the absence of recurring LGBTQ characters in the era and said as much where you raised it above. It’s a legit point.

The bottom line for me is that MASH ran six seasons after the Soap character (and other earlier, admittedly more limited LGBTQ portrayals on sitcoms).

I just don’t buy that the MASH writers were deterred by censors from portraying Klinger as a pretend gay man as opposed to a pretend crazy man had they intended it at Onan claims.

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there's an episode in season 2 of mash where there is a gay character. frank burns threatens to out the guy. if klinger were gay, burns would have ratted on the guy. they all knew klinger wasn't gay and his cross dressing was a gag.

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klinger wasn't gay.

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I'm aware of that.

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this thread is bogus then

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yes, but facts like that won't stop him/her/they from continuing this (and other) pointless discussion(s).

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Well I could do a "Happy Birthday" thread but somebody's already doing that.

This is called creating discussion on a dead board.

He's dressing in drag to pretend to be gay. This was before "Don't Ask. Don't Tell". In the 1950's dressing in women's clothes was deemed as "gay". Transgender was almost unheard of.

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i create plenty of discussion on here not related to sexuality.

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You have your style and I have mine.

It's not about who he fucks.

This is about discrimination and "Don't Say Gay".

You've been alive long enough to remember the old meme about men pretending to be homosexual to avoid the military. When MASH was on tv they couldn't say what Klinger was doing. But everybody knew.

What annoys me is straight dudes saying that Klinger was pretending to be crazy and that's it. No, he was pretending to be gay!

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klinger married women twice on mash. you don't know what you are talking about.

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Duh. Like I said. The concept of "gay" couldn't be mentioned on tv.

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