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Who the Heck is Jennifer? Wearing Those Gunbelts in the House! Wondering What Happened After... Great Episode, Illogical Ending The Mertzes Performing at the Tropicana Ethel's Birthday Gift, Just a Bad Choice or Lucy's Passive/Aggression? Remembering Him What Was Wrong with Sally Gallagher Foreshadowing of Becky's Alcoholism Never Liked the Opening Music View all posts >


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William Frawley already had a career in the movies and it was late in his life, so a steady job with a paycheck was probably enough for him. Another line to "explain it away"... Ethel must've loved Fred, but remember when she said that their "honeymoon was over on their honeymoon"? In the episode where the guys watch the fights on TV, Fred runs to the store at the end of the round to get more refreshments. Ethel says that he's trained himself to do "anything in three minutes". No wonder she wasn't enamored of her husband anymore! lol Well I can understand if you haven't seen the show in a while that you'd be fuzzy on details! But Becky was actually quite rebellious long before Dan was, as you said, "cold towards her". Do you recall the episode when she was very rude and mouthing off to her mom because Roseanne had the "nerve" to ask her where she went and what she was doing? Her mom had no right "to pry" into her life She screamed at the dinner table, shoved her chair and stormed out. Roseanne was angry. But Dan said that Becky was "only trying to get a rise" out of her and Becky was just being a teen-ager. He was often more lenient. Roseanne's solution was to take the door off Becky's room. That behavior would never have been tolerated in our house when I was growing up!! There was the time Becky and her friend got into the liquor cabinet and got roaring drunk. Dan's solution was to put a lock on the cabinet. The bike episode was preceded by the episode when the Connors met Mark. He was disrespectful and rude. The final straw was when they saw him drinking at the Lobo. Understandably they did NOT want their underage daughter dating a guy with a fake I.D. Dan told her flat out that she wasn't to see Mark. And she flat out lied to his face and said that she wouldn't see him. Now I know every teen is rebellious to a point and a smart aleck. But Dan was the head of the house and he had the right to expect his kids to obey him even if they didn't like his rules. Expecting to be respected hardly made Dan a jerk. A few episodes later, Becky lied and said she was going to a friend's house when she was going out with Mark. Lied to her mom's face. Rosie knew and kept calling the friend's house to ask to talk to Becky. The friend would call Becky wherever she was and she'd call home. When that little brat got home she had the NERVE to be angry with her mom because it messed up her evening with Mark and he'd probably never want to see her again. If I had lied and disobeyed my parents like that, never mind the "silent treatment", I would have been grounded until I left for college. Becky could be so horrid to her parents and Dan still tolerated a lot. in the bike episode, Becky deserved Dan's disdain. She wanted a car. Dan was working on a solution for her to get one. But still, she and Mark took Dan's bike. It was established early in the episode that it was Dan's pride and joy. He allowed no one to touch his bike. He had the right to expect his kids to respect his rights and HIS private property even if he was "only" the dad. Parents are people too! Becky's flimsy excuse was that her parents took the car so she had to take the bike. She didn't ask because she knew Dan would say no. And the final straw was Mark "adjusting" Dan's carburetor! Gee, where I come from, you don't touch other people's stuff, especially when it's a prized possession. When Becky asked what her punishment was, no wonder Dan was at the end of his rope and said she had no punishment because, "You'll just do whatever the hell you want anyway." I don't blame him for being furious and giving her the cold shoulder. What else could he do? He tried being understanding, giving warnings, punishments,etc. And the little brat did whatever she wanted. He was angry. But I think he was hurt too and frustrated. She openly defied him at every turn. So as a human being, he finally thought, "The heck with her!" So the little princess got her feelings hurt, boo-hoo. She deserved it. She was thoughtless and selfish. What do you think would happen if you "borrowed" a friend's car without asking him first? As for Dan's supposed racism, I honestly never saw it. He had several black friends who were always there on poker night. And Ed was mostly just a gasbag. I think the whole racism subject was another example of Roseanne Barr going on one of her soapbox rants. Like when the baby might've had a birth defect and she was considering terminating her pregnancy. She had to use her show to get on her soapbox about "no man has no right to tell a woman what to do." Apparently not even the father of the child! Well sorry about MY rant! LOL Believe me, none of the anger in my post was directed at YOU. It's the anger I feel towards obnoxious thoughtless teens like Becky. We're talking about fictional characters here. But I know enough teens in the real world like Becky. Wuthering Heights and Hamlet. In his heyday, good gosh, the man was simply beautiful to look at. I didn't even care of he could act. I just like looking at his face!! A fair thespian too (lol) A much later role, the Nazi hunter in The Boys from Brazil. I was going through my Ira Levin phase then, reading his books and watching the movies made from them. Not a Bill Murray movie, but I loved him in Tootsie. He did so much with a small role. Every line he uttered had me in stitches. Oh i just like to tease my sister about being "so mean" to her husband. She was madly in love with him when she was seventeen. She was always crazy about him, but Tom knew she was too young. He's ten years older and was already divorced when they met. They didn't get married until years later after she went away to school, traveled,etc. It's just that this will be the first time in 25 years that they will be living without kids in the house. She got pregnant on their honeymoon. I remember her telling me, "We took a condom along on the honeymoon, but we forgot to use it." I told her that they don't work if you don't take them out of the wrapper! lol So now they have to get used to just being a couple again. Yes, the story is in one of my Lucy books. Phil Ober was jealous of his wife's success. But he should've been glad for it since he ended up with a lot of $$$ in the divorce settlement. I can't think of any other episode that Fred was in without Ethel. I wonder if William Frawley DID come in just to say one line! He probably didn't mind because he didn't like having a lot of dialogue. Desi Arnaz said it was a strange thing about him. Most actors want MORE lines and a bigger role. But Frawley was content to have as little a role as possible. He said that Frawley only memorized his cue and his lines which followed. He never really knew what the whole script was about. Desi said that in the episode where Ethel is bent over wearing the back of a horse costume and Fred says, "Hi Ethel", Bill Frawley was puzzled by the stage direction. It was "pause for the laugh". He asked what was so funny about saying, "Hi Ethel". He never bothered to read the script! Vivian Vance tells the story of being made up for the show in her dressing room. He came in and asked her a question about an upcoming script. She said that it was the one they had been rehearsing ALL week and were performing that night! I do think at that point in his life, Bill Frawley was way more interested in baseball and hanging out at the bar with his friends. I guess that is a plus for character actors! They never have to worry about losing their looks and losing out on the handsome "leading man" roles. They work steadily. I thought Mrs. Benson was funny, at least one comment of hers makes me laugh. Lucy and Ethel were consoling "poor Mrs. Benson" because she was missing her daughter and she was all alone. They said, "You still have Mr. Benson" and she made a face and said "Blech!!' Just about every long time married woman says that about her husband. My sister and her husband just took their youngest away to college. My sister is feeling sad about her empty nest and having no one to talk to. Someone reminded her that she still has Tom, her husband. She said to me before they left, "What do I want to talk to HIM for?" lol i don't get what you mean about Becky. She went behind her parent's back and dated Mark. Dan didn't like him, but it was Roseanne who really hated Mark for a long time. Dan even explained to Becky that her mom was scared because she herself took off with a guy her mother hated (Dan) and married very young. When Becky and Mark broke up, she wanted Dan to fire Mark from his job at the bike shop. Dan refused, saying that Mark was doing a good job and it wouldn't be fair to fire him. There was no reason that she had to run off and marry Mark. And later when they returned, new Becky was angry that Mark was working so many hours and things weren't the way they were when they were dating. Even Roseanne was exasperated at Becky for being such a brat and wanting to go back to "dating" her husband. I know Becky was angry and disappointed that there was no college fund for her. But didn't she ever hear of student loans? That's what I had. My working class parents couldn't save up to send me to college without loans. I don't see Dan treating Becky so terribly that she turned out to be an alcoholic waitress in the reboot of the show. She was a smart girl who had a bright future. She even told Dan that she was too young to get married. "I want to go to college and Europe and have a career and stuff." It's not Dan's fault that she allowed her hormones to dictate her future. The writing of the show did change somewhat. But I never saw Dan as a racist a-hole. Dan Connor may not have been every woman's idea of the "ideal man" but I hardly think he was a "horribly close minded jerk". He had his faults. He was a loudmouth, but look who he was married to!! Rosie was a bossy, pushy loudmouth woman. I'd say that they were suited for each other. He loved his family and supported them. He didn't walk out when times got tough. That's a a lot more that can be said for many guys. Sure he complained about his work. He got bored with dry walling. Many people get bored with their jobs. Hardly makes them "jerks". He wasn't exactly in a financial position to go to college and get his Master's degree. He had a family to support. Like most blue collar workers, he just didn't have the money or the means to change his financial situation. He did try other things like the bike shop. Unfortunately Lanford didn't have enough customers to support his business. Yes he did yell at David. But on the flip side, how many fathers allow the boyfriend of their teen-age daughter to move in? Not many! My dad sure would not have. Dan already lost one daughter to an ill-conceived teen elopement. He probably feared another one. He didn't hate Ed. Ed simply grated on his nerves with his endless advice, long winded stories about "almost making a million dollars"and "work smart Danny, not hard." Also Dan resented his father for the way Dan, erroneously, believed Ed mistreated his mother. Ed tried to shield Dan from his mom's mental illness and it resulted in Ed looking like the villain. Dan came through and was Ed's best man even though he knew that Crystal was making a mistake. He warned her that Ed would be on the road a lot and she'd be stuck home alone with the kids. She wouldn't even be able to "date the guys Rosie sets you up with." He hardly held Rosie back. She did dream of being a writer, but she married young and had three kids. What did she expect? They had bills to pay, kids to raise, jobs were often hard to come by,etc. I don't think Dan would have been upset if Rosie holed up in the basement and wrote a best seller! It's just the circumstances of life that keep many people from pursuing their dreams. I do not get the "conservative values" argument at all! DJ didn't want to kiss the black girl in the school play. It's not unusual for boys that age to be shy about kissing any girl. People are often uncomfortable around people who are different. It's human nature. And Dan did have black friends. He had no problem with Leon when he found out he was gay. As for Dan wanting Rosie to abort the baby, that is HARDLY a conservative value!! Most conservatives that I know (including myself) are against abortion for almost any reason. Not to get into a sticky debate here. But that did not mean Dan was "conservative". He was just scared. Dan was loud and not very educated. But Roseanne used the same bad grammar. I read that the most successful relationships are between people who are at the same or almost the same level intellectually. Dan and Rosie were hard working, high school grads, not well read but intelligent enough nevertheless. They communicated with each other, often at the top of their lungs, but they understood each other. I just don't see Dan as some Neanderthal cave man. Loud and often boorish, sitting on the couch with his beer, but that doesn't make him much different than a lot of other husbands. The "baby" issue probably caused a lot of headaches for the writers. While the Arnaz baby was a welcome addition, the Ricardo baby had the writers always scrambling to explain his absence. Of course when the baby was old enough they could add the line that he was in nursery school for the day. Another line of dialogue to explain something is in the classic Vitameatavegamin episode. It only seems logical that Lucy would have enlisted Ethel's help in convincing Ricky that she could do a commercial. But instead, Ethel is not there and Fred helps Lucy. To explain her absence, Fred tells Lucy that Ethel went to visit her mother. It does seem odd. The two women were so close that it's hard to believe that Ethel would just leave town and not tell her best friend that she was going away for a few days. From what I've read, sadly if it was true, Vivian Vance couldn't appear in the episode because her husband had hit her. She was bruised and they couldn't hide it for the camera. View all replies >