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Didn't have good things to say about the Titan sub

posted 10 months ago by AmeriGirl26 (12319)
21 replies | jump to latest

Mr. Cameron did an interview recently and was very critical of the safety regulations that were ignored by the CEO of the company that built the lost tourist sub.

He actually gave a very uncomfortable hypothesis about what happened in the last moments of the sub. Evidently the guy who invented the sub had designed the hull to have sensors to warn if the carbon fiber part of the hull was going to "delaminate," as it's called when it fails. The guy had actually ignored other safety warnings (such as the electrical system being compromised) during previous trips, so dead-set as he was on finishing tours to Titanic. The only thing that would have convinced him to abort the trip was warnings about the hull being compromised.

Plus, repeated dives probably had weakened the carbon fiber part of the hull and it presented a danger even before this last dive.

The hypothesis Cameron came up with states that it's possible that alarms had gone off on the way down during Sunday's trip, and the CEO decided to abort and was heading back up. The 5 guys on the sub might have actually known there was something wrong and spent their last minutes in pure terror before the implosion happened, which is a far darker thing to contemplate than an instant death without knowing :(

[–] StoneColdZombies (184) 10 months ago

How deep was the submersible when it blew its load? Was it just the tip or was it balls deep?

[–] maximmm (3045) 10 months ago

I think this whole Titan BS is fascinating. They are saying now that they had an explosion registered in their instruments days ago. Yet, they told no one? And what about those military ships which supposedly registered knocking sounds?

I was purposely ignoring this story - there are way bigger things happening right now, but I did find it fascinating that this BS story was playing out in all national and even international newspapers - front page coverage, no less.

[–] Otter (24464) 10 months ago

Apparently the military underwater sound sensors heard a loud noise in that vicinity on that day, at the time that contact was lost with the deathtrap submarine. I don't think they can say for sure that it was the sound of a small submarine imploding, because how many other small submarines would they have heard implode?

I don't know why the information wasn't released until late in the game, but I suspect the US Military doesn't like to release *any* information about what they hear underwater.

[–] Satan2016 (23379) 10 months ago

Because they test their sensors with every type of explosion plus every type of ship.

[–] Otter (24464) 10 months ago

I'm making the assumption that the military oceanic sensors they haven't heard many submarines the size of a minivan implode at a thousand feet or more below the surface, because there just aren't many tiny submarines at that depth. I have no idea whether the military considers little submersibles to be enough of a threat to test for the sound of their implosion, but I am sure that actual deep-sea m implosions are very rare... because most of them are run by scientists who understand that they have to allow for the laws of physics, and not dickhead entrepreneurs.

But I can see why the military didn't release the information about the "bang" until the deaths were confirmed, and even then the higher-ups must have debated over whether to let the world know exactly what they can hear from a distance.

[–] TandyMan (10367) 10 months ago

I thought even that much info was crazy to learn. Like whoa, the military can hear a tiny little sub go poof from leagues and leagues away? What else are they hearing down there?

[–] Otter (24464) 10 months ago

That is probably why the information about the sound of the implosion was only released after the deaths were confirmed. I suppose the rescuers might have been informed, but I would expect that the military undersea sounds department would like to keep their capabilities top secret.

But there's been SO much interest in this case, that I guess someone high up decided the public needed to know when the implosion happened. It was quick, at least.

[–] TandyMan (10367) 10 months ago

I read once that a huge matter of national, if not global security was protecting all the undersea communication cables that run across the ocean floors. There's like a whole task force keeping tabs on that stuff all the time.

[–] Otter (24464) 10 months ago

Did you know I've actually been on one of these ships that listens for stuff at depth???

Of course I didn't learn a damn thing about it. It was a Russian ship that got rented out for Antarctic cruises during the summer, everyone on board cheerful told each other we were on a "spy ship" and that the one room that not even the crew was allowed to enter was full of classified sonar equipment. Of course it can't have been the latest sonar equipment, it must have been pretty obsolete if they were willing to turn off the spy stuff for the summer and let tourists near it. But hey, I've been on a Russian spy ship!

[–] fc31 (4573) 10 months ago

Wealth is obviously a factor.

If it wasn't about beach houses under water, I don't think climate change is going to be as big a thing as today.

[–] maul (1533) 10 months ago

Apparently they did tell the authorities/Coast Guard, but you can never know for sure, so a search had to happen in case they were actually alive down there.

Imagine the alternative: "well, we heard this sound, so we're just going to assume they're dead and not really bother..." - wouldn't happen. They're going to attempt a rescue even if there is only a small possibility of survival, and if they were your loved ones, I imagine you'd have a similar perspective.

[–] ebhaynz (3532) 10 months ago

I don't know if they had any warning. Cameron has been in several interviews, one interview he says they "were at 3,500 feet" and lost comms/tracking at the same time. Cameron also said he got info that says a loud bang was heard, probably by military hydrophones. All this info put together convinced him the sub imploded.

In another interview Cameron said the sub might have been just a few hundred feet(instead of "at 3,500 feet) from the bottom.

Sensors to detect the carbon fiber delaminating? I guess this is possible but I have a feeling they didn't get any warning from any sensors. It probably imploded with zero or very little warning.

Regardless, most of the mystery has already been solved. Bad design, arrogant/stupid pilot who ignored warnings, rich passengers, needless watery death. This tragic tale sounds very familiar.

[–] maul (1533) 10 months ago

I wish I could find the exact video, but Stockton talked about going down in an earlier version of the carbon fiber hull, and he heard cracking and other noises from it. He lucked out that it wasn't a catastrophic failure that time, because yeah, by the time you detect these things it's likely going to be too late. An illusion of safety as opposed to actual safety.

[–] bozo_500 (12229) 10 months ago

Imagine being close to Titanic in the absolute darkness, interior lit by the camping lights.. then hearing creaking sounds. CEO guy is looking at flashing monitors concerned look on his face and then urgently saying 'we gotta abort!'.. dropping the weights.. Then seconds/minutes of pure terror as they all realise there's no way they can get back.. then the noises of imminent destruction.. 😔

[–] AmeriGirl26 (12319) 10 months ago

Chances are the last thing they heard was a loud bang, and then, suddenly the 5 men are in the afterlife and being told by St. Peter what happened.

[–] raymondoz2007 (2046) 10 months ago

He is unamerican

[–] Otter (24464) 10 months ago

Dude, having his excellent grasp of science used to be considered ALL-AMERICAN!!!

It still should be, but people like you have ruined things.

[–] raymondoz2007 (2046) 10 months ago

He loves indians more.

[–] Otter (24464) 10 months ago

He loves the Titanic wreck most of all!

And you're a dolt. Just dim-witted.

[–] AmeriGirl26 (12319) 10 months ago

Who?

[–] AmeriGirl26 (12319) 10 months ago

Okay, been watching more YouTube videos about this, and it turns out there are other details and hypotheses people have put forth that add more context to this disaster.

Turns out that according to most deep-water sub engineers, the best shape for a pressurized cabin in a submersible is a sphere, because it's the strongest and best shape to hold up against the pressures being put on it. If you take a look at cross-sections of Alvin and James Cameron's vessels, all of them have a passenger cabin that is sphere-shaped, (any elongated parts were built on the outside to accommodate the engine, oxygen tanks, diving gear, etc.) and all have worked. It's one reason why [prior to this incident] there have been no cases of disasters with submersibles. Engineers between the 60s and 80s knew what the heck they were doing.

The biggest flaw in the Titan's design was making it into a cylinder-shape, in addition to using carbon fiber for the pressure hull (we all know the electronics chosen for a bad idea, so I don't need to include them). Theories have been put out that one major reason the CEO of Ocean Gate didn't want "50-year-old-white-men" working for him during dives (which is very hypocritical of him, considering he was a 61-year-old white man and many of his customers were middle-aged white men), is probably because those veteran navy dive officers took one look at his craft and said to him, "I'm not going down in that death-trap." I don't believe it had anything to do with "wokeness," it was arrogance and being fed up with other people telling him he was an idiot. Talk about hubris. It almost feels like karma or a cosmic joke that he got killed by his own sub. It's just sad he took 4 innocent men along with him.