MovieChat Forums > General Discussion > How about we introduce a new culture - t...

How about we introduce a new culture - the "Good Defeats Evil in Real Life and that's the way it should be" culture.


That way, we can, perhaps, disperse with and have any EVIL cultures disappear or at least slowly and progressively fade away and people can perhaps start to think about and value the one above, maybe even start to believe in good and evil officially existing, wonder and seriously enforce action movie like scenarios and happy endings and the whole situation, well, even if we can't completely eradicate all evil, we can at least have it massively reduced and have people more easily divided into good and evil categories.

Would that work or even be a good idea?

Cheers.

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The cold dead hand of evolution has ruled that scenario out unfortunately.

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How do you know this Quasimodo? Also, do my relatives know it too? (OK, last one was a bit of a joke but still...)

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LOL

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we can, perhaps, disperse with and have any EVIL cultures disappear or at least slowly and progressively fade away

Would that work or even be a good idea?



No it wouldn't work, because NAZI's also considered a certain culture of people to be EVIL, whereas others considered the NAZI's to be the EVIL one's.

Thus the reason why the GOOD and EVIL issue is not that SIMPLISTIC, and is way too complex an issue to reduce down into CLEAR CUT "BLACK vs WHITE" kind of situations the way that you're trying to do.

Some people also consider vaccinations to be EVIL as well, whereas others feel those who refuse to get them aren't being LOGICAL or REASONABLE enough.

But does that give those who have opposing views the right to refer to others who don't share their views as being EVIL for not sharing them???



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I never spoke about physical eradication of humanity through genocide, but the eradication of a bad culture like r..e culture for instance at least on a theoretical level so that it doesn't exist and operate on such a painful manner that it does today. Or did it, however sadly, ALWAYS exist, its just that in today's digital age, we learned to RECOGNIZE it and also, through certain people and focus groups, it was coined and became at least today (or in the last 10-15 years definitely) more popular, than it may have been say 50 years ago or more?

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the eradication of a bad culture like r..e culture for instance at least on a theoretical level

did it, however sadly, ALWAYS exist


The problem is how you can end up with a CULTURE that's ESSENTIALLY EVIL (or has values that others would consider to be EVIL), in POWER and CONTROL of EVERYONE (which could also have happened if the NAZI's had WON the war back during WW2).

Then they'd also proceed to WEED OUT and WIPE OUT anyone who disagrees with them (which is also what happens during the RUSSIAN REVOLUTION -- when people were also rounded up and herded into DEATH CAMPS or WORK CAMPS where they also died).

Since CAIN supposedly also kills his brother ABLE in the book of Genesis (due to the jealousy he felt at his parents showing his brother more preference), yes apparently it's also something that's ALWAYS EXISTED (according to the predominant belief system in US CULTURE).

SO NO. It also has nothing to do with the DIGITAL AGE which also didn't EXIST back during that time when that story was written.

It's something that's been a part of our CULTURE for a VERY LONG LENGTH of time.

And how does one determine which VIEW is EVIL and which NOT???

WHO exactly is it that is going to decide such a thing???

EVIL DICTATORS do that kind of a thing all of the time.

The BRAT in NORTH KOREA is still another example of someone EVIL who declares EVERYONE ELSE as being EVIL who disagrees with him.

And then he also had his own BROTHER KILLED as well (as a way to make sure that he couldn't replace him if and whenever the DICTATOR of that country dies).

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Also, what about the fact that some things PERSONALLY make me extremely ANGRY? And that I find the constant breaking of taboos in a bad way frustrating? And that I have sleepless nights because of it and whatnot and can't enjoy life?

Is it not time to arm myself with a sword and go on a life changing morality crusade?

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I find the constant breaking of taboos in a bad way frustrating

Is it not time to arm myself with a sword and go on a life changing morality crusade?


What TABOOS frustrate you???

Can you be more specific???

If you chose to ARM yourself and go on a CURSADE that BREAKS the LAW, then you'll probably also either end up DEAD or in prison for the rest of your life.

Because (unless you're already an officer of the law who is on duty at the time) it's also AGAINST the LAW to try to TAKE the LAW into your own hands (by arming yourself with a SWORD and trying to injure or kill someone else with it).

SO NO.

It is NOT time to ARM yourself.

Wait until your government sends you a DRAFT notice calling for you to come do your DUTY to protect the country then let them ARM you.

😉

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We also have plenty of ordinary and every day evil that does not reach as highly as a field of Politics let alone country leadership.

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Victim blaming and r_-e culture, for one. Very frustrating.

And the fact that those people don't even think twice before forming such offensively wrong thoughts.

I also meant arming with a sword metaphorically, and plus, its not JUST because of law those things are not allowed, right?

And law is man made also.

And to be honest, I don't feel like going to war. I also moved and lived in UK because we all feared that if I went back to Russia, I may have been drafted into the army. Who knows, I might have ended up going to war in Chechnya or some other region that's a war zone, too risky.

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For a brief while, I almost pictured myself there with a sword as real life equivalent of Arnold Schwarzenegger's character in "Conan the Barbarian" (1982), lol, and besides, in modern life, we don't fight world scale battles with "swords".

TheMan18 as a lone warrior to save our troubled world, lol. )

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Do you speak Russian?

I was a HUGE fan of ILIA KULIK (98 MEN's OLYMPIC FIGURE SKATING champ) and use to belong to his international fan club. As you may know, he also married EKATARINA GORDEVA the 2 TIME OLY FIGURE SKATING CHAMP (who's husband dropped dead during a practice session on the ICE RINK at age 28).

I also use to chat online with a very funny RUSSIAN who called himself a "NON EXIT" AGENT who also use to pull pranks all the time like IM me using my own IM name asking me if I believed in ALTER EGOS.

😄

When he tried to IM me using ILIA's IM name then the POWERS that BE would also attack him and delete the account telling him he couldn't use that name. Then he'd also say:

SAYS WHO

when he'd reply back to them again.

But they also never cared about him using MY NAME.

One time that other brat YAGUDIN also had my account deleted for joking around with him on IM. But then they also reinstated it again after the WINKING FACE was pointed out to them.

people don't even think twice before forming such offensively wrong thoughts.


Anyhow, MACROCOSM/MICROCOSM.

C'est la vie. (THAT'S LIFE)

A LITTLE PROBLEM pretty much ECHOS or MIRRORS another much LARGER ONE.

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I come from Russia so yes of course I speak the language fluently.

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Do you like ice skating???

You've also still not said what kind of TABOOS frustrate you.

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As for ice skating, watching - more or less yes, going out and doing it myself, I tend to fall after 2 seconds.

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Ok. So WHAT EXACTLY do you have in mind when you say that we have "EVERY DAY EVIL" among us ???

What are some SPECIFIC EXAMPLES of this situation that you keep talking about IN GENERAL -- but then you also never make any kind of reference to whatever it is that you mean -- so that one can better comprehend PRECISELY what it is that you have in mind???

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Ordinary people not powerful politicians committing crimes like murder and whatnot, for one.

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Victim blaming and r_-e culture, for one. Very frustrating.


We've already addressed the VICTIM BLAMING issue over on your OTHER TOPIC that you started yesterday. Here's the reply that you were given regarding that matter:


As long as a certain group has a certain kind of HORMONE that is infesting their mind they probably won't decide to "ACT NATURALLY" (as you put it).

Because The basic problem is how someone always needs or wants to be or feel SUPERIOR in some way to someone else.

And if the person who wants to be SUPERIOR feels that another person doesn't see them that way, then (like jriley says) they'll also resort to using BRUTALITY as a way to try to force a person to see them the way that they want to be seen by them (it's sort of like they are BORGS from STAR TREK who say "RESISTANCE is FUTILE" prior to attacking their victims and forcing them to see things and do things THEIR WAY).

But changing conditions probably also won't put a stop to anything or change NATURES, because the ANCIENT GREEKS (like ARISTOTLE) also saw FEMALES as being INFERIOR to them -- due to the way those MALES also considered themselves to be SUPERIOR -- due to the way they had MORE MUSCLE MASS, more HAIR on their BODIES, and had more brain mass.

Thus began an ONGOING SUPERIORITY ATTITUDE based upon those SILLY kinds of OPINIONS that have also continued to this very day -- where here in the US FEMALES were given the STATUS of a child and were still not allowed to VOTE or OWN PROPERTY 100 YEARS ago -- and they still only make about 79 percent of what a MALE is paid (even when doing the EXACT same job as a MALE does such as if they're also a DOCTOR for example).

So that also means FEMALES have to work 3 1/2 MONTHS more each year before they can make as much as a male does, which also means when they retire their SOCIAL SECURITY RETIREMENT INCOME is also MUCH LESS than a MALE gets.

So whereas others also want to be PAID for what they see as being VICTIMIZED by those in POWER, I'd also like to be COMPENSATED as well for also having been
ABUSED by the same system. But what CHANCE is that ever going to happen???

SO NO. It's HIGHLY UNLIKELY that we'll ever be able to MASSIVELY REDUCE or ERADICATE the ORIGINAL PROBLEM in the first place -- due to the way that it's been SO INGRAINED into our DNA (or in our HORMONES???) for THOUSANDS of YEARS.

Not unless we also resort to using MALES the same way one does a ROOSTER. And that would probably just result in still more CHAOS with lots of females fighting over that one male that had been assigned to service a bunch of them.

🐓

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"Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you." --Friedrich Nietzsche

Essentially this means that all attempts to fight evil turns into an evil that someone else will then seek to fight.

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Nietzsche knew a thing or two about lunacy.

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In a nutshell, I kind of want to make our world less shitty, if one knows what we mean.

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And Foucault knew many things about sexuality and power. He also was very calm when discussing these sensitive issues.

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I recently watched a Russian video that explained how mostly it takes evil to defeat evil. It started with...

... a street fight and we found out that an innocent young boy could NOT defeat a group of drunken, hateful and ignorant men. A truly nice person would not beat someone on the nose with a stick but an ignorant bully would go out of their way to beat someone using the most wicked and cowardly methods in order to win that fight. Guess who wins?

In terms of politics, many politicians hide behind a facade of good and they often go against all limits of morality in order to achieve the goals. So again, bad people WIN.

And then you thought that if someone who is guilty of a crime is sent to prison then good defeated evil? Look at the Russian "Dolphin" prison documentary and you see its mostly BIGGER EVIL defeating LESSER evil.

So what does this say about "good defeating" evil in reality unlike fiction and movies?

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mostly it takes evil to defeat evil

what does this say about "good defeating" evil


What it says is there's DANGER that you yourself can also become EVIL by the attempt to DEFEAT IT.

In a film called "QUILLS," for instance, a priest tries to REFORM a SEXUALLY DEVIANT character, but only becomes like him by the end of the film, and ends up locked up behind bars in a place for the criminally insane ( just like the other character was that he tries to reform in the film).

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The passage is from beyond Good and Evil, the intent is to help you to realize that a less shitty world is relative to the individual. Regardless of your political affiliations, every political party believes their path will lead to the least shitty world and the opposing parties want to make the world a more shitty place.

There is power in conformity, the Stanford Prison Study has some truly enlightening lines.

As soon as I realized that #819 was hearing all this, I raced into the room where I had left him, and what I found was a boy crying hysterically while in the background his fellow prisoners were yelling and chanting that he was a bad prisoner, that they were being punished because of him. No longer was this a chant or a count, disorganized and full of fun, as we saw on the first day. It was marked by its conformity, by its compliance,by its absolute unison. It was as if a single voice was saying, "819 is bad." Or like a million Hitler Jugend chanting "Heil Hitler" in a torchlight rally. Imagine how he felt: I said, "OK, let's leave." Through his tears he said to me, "No, I can't leave." He could not leave because the others had labeled him a bad prisoner. Even though he was feeling sick, he was willing to go back into that prison to prove that he was not a bad prisoner. At that point I said, "Listen, you are not #819. My name is Dr. Zimbardo, I am a psychologist, and this is not a prison. This is just an experiment and those are students, just like you. Let's go.


A little background, the only thing Zimbardo actually did was have students wear either a humiliating cross-dressing outfit or a guard outfit. They also did all of this willingly and fully knowing what was expected of them. Everything that followed is the result of the cultures formed between the humiliated students (prisoners) and the empowered students (guards.) This occurs over a few weeks (been a long time since I've read this, but it strikes me very strongly)

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They also did the same kind of an experiment with some very YOUNG school kids by splitting them up into 2 groups (those with BLUE eyes/those with BROWN eyes) and then suggesting one group was SUPERIOR to the other one with the same results as what happened happening in this other study.

PLUS there's also the MILGRAM EXPERIMENT where people where instructed to increase the amount of ELECTRIC SHOCK they were giving someone each time that they got a question they were asked wrong. And people were also SHOCKED at how willing people were to turn the dial all the way up to the point where they'd be giving the person they shocked the worst pain.

Milgram Experiment

The Milgram experiment(s) on obedience to authority figures was a series of social psychology experiments conducted by Yale University psychologist Stanley Milgram. They measured the willingness of study participants, men from a diverse range of occupations with varying levels of education, to obey an authority figure who instructed them to perform acts conflicting with their personal conscience. Participants were led to believe that they were assisting an unrelated experiment, in which they had to administer electric shocks to a "learner". These fake electric shocks gradually increased to levels that would have been fatal had they been real.


Wikipedia iconWikipedia

So this US vs THEM kind of MENTALITY can also be a VERY DANGEROUS thing (which has also been recently demonstrated to us right here in our own society on when a group of others who'd been lied to were also willing to murder and harm other people based upon the lies that they'd been told) .

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2 brodee, in a nutshell, that boy prisoner was basically bullied and humiliated, and those people responsible have simply labelled him bas as their own form of selfish defense mechanism and pure projection. They were the guilty ones, he was the victim, pure and simple.

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No, you're completely ignoring everything that happened to jump to conclusions that fit your world view that Good and Evil actually exist.

First off, get it through your mind that these are students who all volunteered for this experiment. Every single one of them are normal college students that you can find on any campus in America. Simply by playing the roles of guards and prisoners did the students change to suit the roles as they saw fit.

This particular student actually forgot his own identity (in fact, all the students lost their sense of self simply by being assigned a role and put in a situation to believe it) and believed he was a prisoner who was in prison and was deserving of punishment. The other students, who were normal every day college students only two weeks before, adopted the notion that this student was causing trouble for them by being sick and that the students playing guards would retaliate because of the prisoner.

You insist there is good and evil, but the fact is that these are normal every day students, many of whom were friends before the experiment (Eye of the Storm is another good reference, as joi2049 points out). There aren't good people, there aren't bad people. There aren't good actions, there aren't bad actions. There are only people and the actions they take.

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One time I was also a little bit late to a sociology class and therefore also became the subject of an experiment where 2 arrows had been drawn on the blackboard/whiteboard. The rest of the class already knew why they were there by then, but since I did not know, the professor asked which arrow I thought was the longest one.

And after I replied, the rest of the class also tried to suggest that the other one was longer, but I stood my ground and refused to agree with them (even though the opinion of everyone else in the room appeared to be against me).

In other words, I was also VERY PLEASED to realize how my personality fit into the type that would have REFUSED to give ELECTRICAL SHOCKS to someone if I'd been a part of that MILGRAM EXPERIMENT.

Because that also seems to INDICATE that I'm also NOT the type who would join one of those CULTS where people come under the SPELL of some kind of a CULT LEADER (like JIM JONES who got his followers to drink the POISONED KOOL AID which killed 900 of them).

But it's still VERY DISTURBING to realize how MOST of the REST of US can too easily come under that kind of a CULT LIKE INFLUENCE where we believe a certain EYE COLOR means we're better than someone else with another EYE COLOR, or we think we're better than someone else because we wear a UNIFORM that gives us more rights that another person, etc. etc. etc. .

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Oh OK, but then if it was real, then that would've been the case, no?

P.S. Sounds quite a bit like that German film "Das Experiment" (2001), which yes I have seen.

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Take up gardening. Be a Hobbit.

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I've spent my entire adult life trying to make the world less shitty, in any way I can.. Online, traveling the world, communicating with people from all over, and I've come to find the way to even make a small dent is to spread good art.. It moves people a lot more than "the news" and information in general.

I start with the premise of comparing the past to the present, and work my way to the current era when having conversations with people. I try to get people to observe the things BEFORE they were born, to compare, and to hopefully higher their standard. When you find "the real thing", the popular and trivial mediocrity suddenly looks banal.

If I had millions of dollars, I would seriously give away great DVDs, CDs, Books to libraries, random people, use more money for think tanks, and test out the many social experiments I attempt alone but on a larger scale. I'm curious and only interested in the truth. I don't like groups.

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His MADMAN is also a lunatic who had MORE SENSE than all of the rest of them who MOCK and MADE FUN of him.

https://genius.com/Friedrich-nietzsche-the-madman-annotated

What did we do when we loosened this earth from its sun? Whither does it now move? Whither do we move? Away from all suns? Do we not dash on unceasingly? Backwards, sideways, forwards, in all directions? Is there still an above and below? Do we not stray, as through infinite nothingness? Does not empty space breathe upon us? Has it not become colder? Does not night come on continually, darker and darker? Shall we not have to light lanterns in the morning?


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Nietzsche truly is amazing, I wish I've actually read his works instead of simply knowing quotes from them. There is still time in this world though and I may pick up some of his literature.

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Here's the KEY SENTENCE regarding what the MADMAN has to say:

Shall we not ourselves have to become Gods, merely to seem worthy of it?

In other words, Nietzsche's MADMAN is suggesting the same thing that CAMUS did when he also points out how it's BETTER to do the right thing simply because it's the RIGHT thing to do, than do it because we are afraid of being PUNISHED if we don't do it, or because we want to be REWARDED if we do the right thing.

Because then we also become the GODS or the RULERS of ourselves without needing a FATHER FIGURE to guide us throughout our lives.

And that's probably also at the heart of what TheMAN is getting at when he says he wants the world to be "less SHITTY."

But the problem is how all of us MATURE at DIFFERENT LEVELS throughout our lives (with some of us probably also never reaching a certain level of MATURITY at all).

Thus the reason why the world still remains in what some consider to be a "SHITTY" kind of state.

In "THUS SPOKE ZARATHUSTRA," Nietzsche also addresses that issue as well when a MAN walking across a tight rope tries to reach the other side of it to become THE OVERMAN, but before he can get there out comes a little ape who leaps over top of the man and beats him over to the other side of it before MAN can become the OVERMAN.

And that also pretty much sums up what life is all about as well.

1. APE
2. MAN
3. OVERMAN

As APE is to MAN, so shall MAN be to the OVERMAN.

Because instead of being able to EVOLVE to a HIGHER STATE of being and STAY THERE, all man can do is MORPH back and forth from one state to another one.

FREUD puts it this way:

1. ID
2. EGO
3. SUPEREGO

🐒

🌍🌎🌏



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I'm glad you said this, because I think many people are inaccurate in their thinking (assumed truths, unexplored territory) because they don't want to put in the work... I also think people have a tendency to just absorb whatever is around them, whatever is popular, and the minute something seems difficult, they quit.

I like to think I'll be a little smarter tomorrow than today, but not naturally, but by putting in the time to learn.

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Apropos of nothing, sometimes I get a perspective on myself where I remember being in the throes of emotion and acting rather poorly - nothing criminal but being a PITA for the object of my disappointment -- then at some point realizing if I were a 3rd person party to this debacle, I would offer sage advice not to act in such a manner.
But being an active member, heck, I'd burn my own house down if it was to make a point, haha.

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What is it about the selected text you like?

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Quotes were also from both "THE MADMAN and THUS SPOKE ZARATHUSTRA."

So which parts of the selected TEXT(s) is it that you've made reference to and want to know what it is that one likes about it???

What one likes about the APE/MAN/OVERMAN illustration is the way it's suggested that MAN can NEVER EVOLVE to an OVERMAN state of being and remain there on a PERMANENT basis.

Because just like the case is with the SUN (DAYTIME), all it can do is MORPH into another different STATE where THE MOON (NIGHT-TIME) takes control. And while that takes place all we have are Temporary TWILIIGHT states in between those 2 states (which would probably also represent the other TEMPORARY TWILIGHT or OVERMAN state of being).

And that also seems to correspond to the other ANCIENT GREEK PHILOSOPHY where we find these states of being:

1. DYONYSIS (MOON GOD of Disorder/chaos/ Dis-Harmony)

2. ??? Man/ EGO ???

3. APOLLO (SUN GOD of ORDER/HARMONY/BALANCE)

Which might also correspond to FREUD's analysis:

1. ID

2. EGO

3. SUPEREGO

And the MADMAN may also be making reference to this matter:

1. FATHER (Old TESTY GOD/ EYE for an EYE- TOOTH for a TOOTH)

2. SON (New Testy GOD: Turn the other cheek)

3. HOLY SPIRIT (a SYNTHESIS ???)

Which may also indicate this process:

1. THESIS

2. ANTI-THESIS

3. SYNTHESIS

Does that help to further clarify matters any more for you in regards to what one likes about the TEXT???

Hope so!!!

PLATO also has this to say:

1. BAD HORSE
2. CHARIOT DRIVER
3. GOOD HORSE

and this:

1. Little DEVIL (sits on one shoulder)
2. US
3. GOOD ANGEL (sits on the other one)

And we're left in the MIDDLE to make up our minds which one of them we chose to listen to and take advice from.


😈

🙃

😇

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BRILLANT QUOTE bordee!!!

The other day we also discussed something very similar which was a quote from a film called 8 mm that goes something like this:

If you DANCE with the DEVIL, the DEVIL won't change, the DEVIL changes YOU.

One of my other favorite NIETZSCHE QUOTES is when the MADMAN throws down his lantern and breaks it saying that HE'S COME TOO SOON to try and ENLIGHTEN the others in the crowd with it who MOCK him and make fun of him.

I also like what ZARATHUSTRA says in "THUS SPOKE ZARATHUSTRA" when he exists from the CAVE:

O GREAT STAR, what would you're happiness be without those for whom you shine ??!!!

🌞

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And "when you dance with the devil, you wait for the song to stop, know what I mean" - Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels (1998) film.

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That film seems to be full of characters who have Anti Social Personalities.

😉

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Well, it is a British black comedy gangster flick after all.

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If you ever get a chance to see LOVECRAFT COUNTRY I think you'll like it.

Because there's lots of characters with ANTI SOCIAL PERSONALITIES in that story as well (and lots of dancing around with the devils in it -- to the point where the GOOD people who do the DANCING also run the risk of becoming just as BAD as those that they've DANCED around with).

😉

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How do you know who is good?

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A few useful clues might be found over on the INTEGRITY topic.

😉

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Also, should we shame ignorant and bad people if they display a lack of empathy and whatnot? Note - on the internet, I seem to see it a lot. Regardless of how it affects the situation overall.

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And for the umpteenth time - why do we personally feel so good and happy when in movies, mostly action movies but not limited to that, good guys defeat bad guys and everyone lives happily ever after?

And does it distress us beyond belief and breaking point that for the most part, it doesn't work out that way in real life? Personal opinion wise.

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Perhaps it has something to do with the way we grow up as kids hearing stories about FAIRY TALES where the characters in them also tend to live "Happily Ever After" at the end of the story???

And since it can also be stressful to finally find out that there is no SANTA CLAUSE or TOOTH FAIRY or EASTER BUNNY, maybe that also triggers something in us whenever something else in REAL LIFE doesn't turn out to be the way that we expected or hoped it would be???





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Just this - for me ever since childhood, those men dressed in red with white beards and giving people presents on Christmas and New Year was SANTA CLAUSE enough alright for me.

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Apropos of nothing, I had a gf who was from The Philippines who once - without rancor and ill-will - told me that ...

Her parents had to flee to the Jungle and eat bugs to Survive, and that I couldn't do that.

My immediate thought was -- You are absolutely right and thank god I don't have to ! (haha)

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Unfortunately people who display a lack of empathy usually also fit into a category that one finds in the DSM (Diagnostic Statistical Manual) called ANTISOCIAL PERSONALITY DISORDER for which there is also no cure.

Antisocial personality disorder - Symptoms and causes ...

Symptoms

Disregard of what is right
Highly aggressive and irritable
Deceitfulness
Lack of empathy or remorse
Consistently irresponsible
Impulsive

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20353928

Antisocial personality disorder, sometimes called sociopathy, is a mental condition in which a person consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others. People with antisocial personality disorder tend to antagonize, manipulate or treat others harshly or with callous indifference. They show no guilt or remorse for their behavior


The character Tony Soprano was diagnosed as having it for instance. That's why the SUPERVISOR of his shrink showed her some studies and warned her that she was wasting her time by trying to help him, and that if anything she was only making his condition worse (by his learning from her how to be even more deviant).

In other words, since they lack empathy, it's pretty much useless to try and SHAME them (due to the way they also don't feel a sense of shame (no guilt or remorse) the way that other people do.

What is it that you see a lot on the internet? A lack of empathy on the part of people, or people trying to shame someone else for something that they've said???





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2 joe, can I send you a PM please, thanks.

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I've sent a PM back to you again and tried to address the issues that you've mentioned.

Hope it makes some sense.

It would probably also be more helpful if you've also seen the show and the scene in it that reference is being made to.

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I'll look into it, thanks.

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On and off topic hilarious question, and not that I am complaining or anything but 2 joi, haha, I wonder, with your typing a lot in caps, are you trying to emulate me? No offense to you if you are, just curious.

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Since I borrowed this POSTING STYLE from a man from ENGLAND a couple of DECADES ago, the answer is NO I'm not trying to emulate you (due to the way I'm been emulating him).

Thanks for telling me about the story you've seen.

Also hope you get to check out that other one that I've seen.

Needless to say I'm also VERY CURIOUS to see what will happen in Season 2 of that other story where this other group of people now have the power that the other group use to have.

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Lately I have tried to use Capitalization as a way to Emphasize words as I might during an actual conversation. I have enjoyed it but I also wonder if it comes off as a bit "twee."

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Does it really matter to you that much how it "comes off???"

Emily (who some also consider to be our best AMERICAN POET) also had an ODD kind of a posting/writing style where she also used lots of "DASHES."

https://poets.org/poem/im-nobody-who-are-you-260

I'm Nobody! Who are you? (260)

Emily Dickinson - 1830-1886


I'm Nobody! Who are you?
Are you – Nobody – too?
Then there's a pair of us!
Don't tell! they'd advertise – you know!

How dreary – to be – Somebody!
How public – like a Frog –
To tell one's name – the livelong June –
To an admiring Bog!


But SO WHAT???

WHO CARES???

If she wants to "DASH ABOUT" -- and doing that is what made her happy -- and it was the way that she liked to express herself -- then it's also perfectly fine with me !!!

And in order to remain "a NOBODY" she also kept the POEMS that she wrote HIDDEN away from the rest of the world who didn't find them until AFTER her death.

Because she also HATED CELEBRITY CULTURE (which she also observed during church services where they'd have NARCISSISTIC GUEST speakers from time to time).

So that's also the reason why she had NO DESIRE to ever want to be one herself.



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That's a wonderful shout-out to Emily Dickinson. Many years ago I bought a woman I'm very fond of a collection of EmD, just because I thought of Em as being an Independent Thinking Woman, which is something I value and encourage.

I haven't the Confidence to Buck the Currant Stream and punctuate as I care to, but it's certainly a nice thought. Thanks for the thoughtful response.

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That's also nice to hear how you purchased the collection for the person that you're very fond of as a way to encourage Independent Thinking.

Do you have any favorite EMILY poems that you'd care to share???

And it also looks like maybe you've found a subtle way to BUCK the CURRENT stream by the way that you've also chosen to use CAPITAL LETTERS here and there (thus also creating your own unique kind of posting style in the process of doing so).

😉

So Congratulations to you for that, and thank you for your thoughtful kind of reply as well.

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Everyone thinks they're "good", even terrorists and those committing genocide.

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Even worse - some either don't care that they are bad or revel in it.

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But really, many bad guys really do think they're good guys. There's an old actor's phrase "Every villain thinks he's the hero" which IMHO is widely true in real life, some horrible violent people just want to watch the world burn, but others think they're acting on behalf of a just cause.

What a world, what a world...

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Many politicians are like that for one, and even Hitler believed he was doing or being "good" despite the mass scale death and destruction he wrought.

Also, in the film "Spring Breakers" (2012), James Franco's character spoke of how he WANTS to be bad and enjoys being it and doing the wrong thing and he doesn't call himself "good" at all but more importantly, he revels in it.

To a bigger and more disturbing and also mysterious extent, so does "The Tattooed Man" in the great little seen Paul Sarossy surreal British gangster crime flick "Mr. In-Between" (aka "The Killing Kind") (2001). ("I know what I am and I REVEL in it.")

Characters like the serial killer in "Se7en" (1995) and the supernatural "John Milton" Satan himself in "The Devil's Advocate" (1997) frequently spoke of either victims being "bad" and "deserving it" or blaming their protégés for their own tragedies and mistakes they made whilst often reveling in their evil nature without a hint of regret or the realization of the wrong they did.

BUT... Yeah, in real life, I wouldn't make excuses for any of them.

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Those are all fictional characters, I was talking about real life. yes, I was using an actor's adage to illustrate my point about reality, because life imitates art and vice versa.

I don't think chortling bad guys who revel in bad are as common in real life as they are in movies, writers love them because they make great villains. I think that in real life, the bad guys who know they're being bad are either stone-cold sociopaths who have a fairly normal facade and don't give a rat's ass who they kill or destroy in pursuit of their agenda, and people who've suffered horribly and who want everyone else in the world to suffer horribly, too. Of course the former may have no illusions that they're bad guys, they're bad and they don't care, but the latter may. If they want to destroy society, they may see themselves as crusaders out to destroy a society that's corrupt and evil, or which at least doesn't pay any attention to their needs.

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essentially the law encapsulates, however imperfectly, the current politicized consensus of the line between evil that will not be tolerated and everything else remaining to be tolerated.

i think the best we can hope for is just regimes with just laws which also encompass mercy and rehabilitiation.

humans desire to 'look into the abyss' at least vicariously. much easier than living an outlaw life.

for these reasons, anti-heros will remain attractive in a culture which is not overly-repressed. the mark of authoritarianism is enforced 'happy endings'.

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Whenever I come across someone who says of some criminal, -- he should be dismembered in the worst manner imaginable, or what have you -- I always wonder what is going on with this person.
As if there is satisfaction that someone who has committed a heinous crime should then have to experience the same crime on them? Two wrongs make it right, right?
That's why I'm anti-Death Penalty. Sure I have an animal instinct to want to gut some POS, but we have to be a lot smarter as we go about creating a functioning society.

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makes sense to me. though i have to say that for some of the more heinous crimes i can't seem to quit the DP.

but you're probably right about that part, too. i am not totally civilized yet.

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I totally get why some people support the DP, and sadly, actual lives are held in the balance for what for us is a merely philosophical debate, like a couple college students.
Again, this is why I'm anti-DP, simply because it gives us the power to exterminate people at our choosing.

War is a different situation as is Abortion, so we can go in all kinds of different directions but when it comes to DP ...

I guess you know where I'm at. Thanks for putting up with it ... I hope.

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nah, our thinking runs along very similar lines harold ;)

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As long as you don't have the song "choppin' broccoli" going through your head 24/7 the way I do, I guess you'll be okay.

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And also with regards to death penalty (see also one of my posts on "Dead Man Walking" (1995) board and its replies, I believe the user who replied even participated in this thread), it may not be politically correct to say this, but, as long as the law isn't perfect and there are miscarriages of justice, one of the main reasons to avoid it is to avoid having an innocent person who may be mistaken for a major criminal, executed. Hence one of the reasons to oppose the death penalty.

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I watch a lot of old Westerns, and one of the tropes is early in the episode is to want to hang someone for Cattle Rustling, which might mean culling some small steer just so you can eat meat that evening or a few.
I didn't want to spend my time too much watching Bonanza today, but the ep had a Mexican guy almost hanged at the beginning for what I described above, then apparently hanged soon thereafter (I was floating in-and-out of the room doing other things), and the wonderful Denver Pyle starts berating his son for allowing it to happen.
He says, these Mexicans has been working for us and doing it for years and they give back 10 times more than what they take. You can't just hang a man for taking a cow !
Such a reminder that we have and continue to be Barbaric, be it the Olde West, the 1960s, or Now.

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And its no surprise then that one of the time periods the Westerns are known for is often referred to as the "Wild West".

Let's also not forget Sam Peckinpah and his brilliant "The Wild Bunch" (1969) film.

And also his incredible and highly controversial classic "Straw Dogs" (1971) which, by the way, explored a lot of the themes and issues we discussed here and elsewhere, and that film also reminds us that sadly, it has been with humanity for a long time throughout history and is all about human nature and many dark sides associated with it.

Oh and of course it has one undeniably controversial scene to it. But, slight solace, at least the perpetrators both get killed in the movie. And it wasn't "pro-it" at all, just daring to be slightly complex and nuanced but still very wrong of course.

And also, in Straw Dogs, although Dustin Hoffman's character does indeed kill those bad men and does so in self defense, he is in no way painted as an outright "hero".

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