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Question about Heaven and Hell


For the record I'm not religious, but according to the most strict Christians, only those that believe and worship God will get into Heaven. Because God loves us so much, your only punishment for not obeying him and worshiping him is getting tortured, crying, feeling intense pain, being scared, for eternity.

My question is what if you got to Heaven, but found out your mother, or brother, or wife, or child was in hell. I would not enjoy myself at all if I knew my loved ones were suffering. It'd be like taking a vacation while your closest loved one is dying alone.

How could you even want that? If I went to heaven and found out my family was being poked and prodded with hot metal rods while a freaky red guy with horns was laughing at them cruelly, I would probably ask if I can join them. What kind of monster would I be if I was enjoying myself while people I cared about were suffering?

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In The Bible it says that Heaven has Pizza, Cable and Beer

I'm going there👍

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And dogs.

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Bonus, just keep them away from our Pizza!!

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So if pizza goes to heaven which foods go to hell?

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Sushi obviously!

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But I have all of that now.

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Do you have an eternity of Pizza, Cable and Beer Sir?

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Your question is very similar to the premise of this movie https://moviechat.org/tt0120889/What-Dreams-May-Come. Maybe you should give it a look-see.

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hmm, eternal tormet or bliss ? decisions, decisions.

(im not religious, but i think this as a fairly absurd conundrum)

here's a more serious one - given the almost infinite variety of circumstances, natures, and displays of virtue/vice...

only two destinations ?

plenty more where that came from...

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precisely!

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"Heaven is a place where the Crisco flows like wine." - Charlie Sheen (probably)

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'And you'll float on endless clouds of crack smoke while using a bunch of strippers as a mattress and pillows'

-also Charlie Sheen

*citation unavailable

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You guys are terrible but I love these Charlie quotes..

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'We shall smoke weed on the beaches,
We shall snort lines on the landing grounds,
We shall experiment with oxys in the fields and in the streets,
We shall try Heroin in the hills
We shall NEVER sober up!

-Charlie Sheen when he won his best totally batshit stoned Oscar


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I'm going with Privileged Idiot... with no talent.

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lol

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Damn, I'm glad somebody laughed!
That took several minutes to research and type😆!

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at what point do you decide that wine, vodka, pot, and cocaine are too tame and you just have to try crack?

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No idea, I always kept my bad behavior to booze and I quit the weed several years ago...unless you're offering😬

Some people have a hole inside, it can never be filled I suppose

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Hey I'm right there.. I just don't get how you go from wine/vodka/pot.. to crack.. Wine, Pot, aren't good enough. You can't t get he high you need, so you go to crack??

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Oh, no, not me
No crack or coke for me ever!
Not even once

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That’s a good question. Why does a person cross that line?

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Its a line I've often wondered about. Its almost suicide when you decide to try heroin or meth.. There is no dabbling. I kind of wanted to try Cocaine but haven't, but thats just for fun. When you say Hey I think I want to do Meth or Heroin you've called it a day. You are done.

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I think your right on with that way of thinking. I know people who went that way and even know they didn’t die, they are never the same. Just burnt.

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I wouldn't worry about it. There is probably a very simple explanation as to why no-one has ever come back from either heaven or hell to tell us what they are like.

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Im not too worried about it just stoned and wondering. I really would love at least one real attempt at an answer from someone. Maybe someone here that is religious?

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Head on over to the ' Jesus Christ ' board and post it there. Someone will probably give you an opinion from a religious point of view but it might take a little while to get a reply.

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i gave you an answer. if you take seriously the prospect of burning in the fires of hell with your family, or enjoying immeasurably better conditions in heaven as an orphan.

any rational person would be an orphan in heaven. its an absolute no-brainer.

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I think you are missing the point of my question.

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is your point that if everything isn't just as you would like it to be in heaven from your temporal perspective, heaven would be somehow deficient ?

that would be kind of infantile.

if that isn't your point, what is your point ?

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i was in purgatory and theres God with these polaroids (Gods a boomer) showing all the f'ed up stuff i did. so, he tells me to "Go to Hell". hes joking, he thinks it funny. its not funny, he's an asshole. but you gotta laugh, He's God.

Girlfriend from Hell (1989)

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June 22, 2020 Monday 11:15 p.m.

Please know that I love you when I share this. As a Christian, these are my beliefs:

God doesn't punish people. The Bible only reads that way when taken at face value. Everything that happens to people in the Bible is not God's doing at all, but instead, people making poor choices and having to face the consequences of their actions as a result.

God is telling people what 'will' happen to them due to their decisions. Everything that God is responsible for, everyone is given an advance notice; signs, warnings, opportunities to learn from their mistakes before, during, and even after should tragedy occur.

When bad things do happen, not all hope is lost because it's not so much that God is allowing bad stuff to go left unchecked willy-nilly. Instead, giving us the benefit to make our own choices, actually shows God's love for us. It's a reminder to love one another, be kind to those we don't know, to appreciate and take care of the things we have - that they may not be taken for granted.

Don't be concerned about the afterlife: focus on your time here, right now, in the present. Everything we 'do' know about Heaven and Hell is only a limited sketch, seeing them and conceptualizing their characteristics based on our physical experiences and material existence. People in Hell do suffer, yes, but they actually 'want' to be there, enjoying the company of their own misery. They want to do things their way and not God's way.

The virtuous who do not know God; those who practice God's ways despite not hearing God's message for whatever reason, go to Heaven for God's love is open to all. You see, they will be held by their own standards according to their own ideals. Their lack of knowing better will not be held against them if they respect God in the spirit of the law yet not the letter of the law. The hypocrites are the ones who are condemned. Of course, only God knows what's truly in our hearts to consider such things.

Thank you again for letting me share this. I give the same respect to you and what you hold dear in turn.

~~/o/

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this is a far more humane, universalist view than your garden-variety Christianity.

but all the metaphysical & indeed ethical problems of a bifurcated eternal destiny for beings only existing for a pinprick of cosmological time in assessment, remains.

maybe its like a factory line with an automated parts inspection / rejection mechanism.

who can say?

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but all the metaphysical & indeed ethical problems of a bifurcated eternal destiny for beings only existing for a pinprick of cosmological time in assessment, remains.


Damn, what pseudo-intellectual pomposity! Qualifies perfectly as this: https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Proverbs-26-12/

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that's one way to counter an argument. not a good one, but...

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My main disagreement with what you said is there definitely will be people in hell who don´t want to be there.

Luke 13:24-27 "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25 Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’
“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’
26 “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’
27 “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’
28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.

God will also punish since he is a righteous judge even though he won´t take pleasure in the death of the wicked. Ezekiel 18:23.



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Don't be concerned about the afterlife:focus your time here, right now,in the present.


This advice is completely contrary to everything I learned about Christianity during decades of attending different churches, twin. If we are to accept this literally, then the message of Easter means absolutely nothing.

"Eat, drink and be merry..." Luke 22:19
"Do not lay up for yourselves, treasures on earth..." Matthew 6:19-21
"My kingdom is not of this world..." John 18:36

These are just immediate examples that come to mind. I could dig and come up with more, all night long.

My point is, the crux of the Christian faith is the notion of an afterlife. This was how many Romans were converted to the faith while witnessing Christians bravely facing a horrific death, being fed to the lions in the arena.

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I missed that and agree also. That quote sounds like a Joel Osteen teaching.

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I'm not a fan of Joel Osteen or other "prosperity preachers" who have grown rich exploiting Biblical teachings.

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Neither.

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June 23, 2020 Tuesday 1:25 a.m.

@jriley555 @BillySlater @db20db

First off, I would like to thank each of you for letting me explain myself with friendly and open discourse. Such apologetics, and less controversy like polemics, is what makes discussions of religious nature worthwhile. There's a lot I want to say and address. Please have patience and I will do my best to answer all of your questions. This may get kind of long and likely cover over more than one post and take some time due to having a tight schedule on my end currently.

Expressing my beliefs as 'Universalist' is accurate, which I need to clarify. It's 'Christian Universalism' not 'Unitarian Universalism'. The difference is I have taken a vow to place my full faith in Jesus Christ. I 'do not' mix and match with other religions like Unitarian Universalists do. I understand the concern of moral relativism and its heresy in deluding the importance of Christ's earthly ministry.

This said, you are probably thinking, " Well, if all it takes in order to have salvation is to be a good person, what's the point and following the way of Jesus?"

I am not advocating the heresy of works-based only salvation as implied in my preceding question. Quoting James 2:18-24 :

18 "But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder. 20 Do you want to be shown, you shallow man, that faith apart from works is barren? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, 23 and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." (RSV)

If understood properly, James was writing to some people who seemed to fit into this category, because they did no works and their faith (if any) could not be seen. Just so we're clear, good works (or good deeds) never override or become more important than faith, but is a demonstration of it when there is no personal boasting. Faith is complemented through the visible sign of the Holy Spirit. What I'm describing might make more sense if you hold, or rather, have room to allow the Christus Victor view of atonement besides the other acceptable doctrines of the atonement.

Because, like all believing Christians, I regard Jesus to be God personified, 100% divine and 100% human, each differing aspects unitely joined together. Thus, the heresies of arianism and docetism are not an issue, which each stress a more uniform (not united) nature of being completely one or the other.

Back to the concern of moral relativism above, I believe in only the God of Israel, no other deity. I do not believe in "All paths lead to God". While I do believe 'fragments', if you will, of God's truth can be found in all cultures and societies, only God's full presence was revealed to the ancient Israelites, whom God chose because they listened to God, meaning, they saw beyond themselves. Instead of being an exclusive social club, where it's easy to mistakenly believe that they're better than everyone else in self-righteousness, they had consideration for all the nations living among them too.

I have no problem providing my religious convictions here. Given the personal venue of this topic, I'd like to continue this on the religion board, feeling more comfortable going deeper there for further insight. Each of you will get a private message from me for part 2 later.

Edit - June 24, 2020 part 2 follow-up:
https://moviechat.org/bd0000108/Religion-Faith-and-Spirituality/5ef3e3cde968e810776427c4/Universalism-in-Christianity-not-UU-or-New-Age-something-to-think-about

~~/o/

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Rev 21:4 says there will be no mourning or sorrow in heaven. Not sure if that means believers´memories are wiped or what.

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