Sequels thought to be better than the original: - General Discussion Discussion

Citation needed.

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[–] exithereplease (3553) 5 years ago

https://filmschoolrejects.com/25-movie-sequels-better-than-original/

https://time.com/5353143/sequels-better-than-original/

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/film-sequels-better-original-best-list-star-wars-indiana-jones-lord-of-rings-harry-potter-avengers-a8998921.html

Like I wrote, I don't agree with some of them...

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[–] actionkamen (23176) 5 years ago

Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol? Why? Why not Mission Impossible: Fallout? What significance does Ghost Protocol have? It's as generic as any other Tom Cruise action flicks.

That list is wacky.

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[–] Kowalski (63664) 5 years ago

ANY OF THE SEQUELS ARE BETTER THAN MISSION IMPOSSIBLE 1..SO VALID ENTRY.

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[–] actionkamen (23176) 5 years ago

Still random tho... Why Ghost Protocol? Why not M:I2, the direct sequel? The writer wasn't sure that M:I2 or M:I 3 were better than the original so he eeny meeny miny moe'd Ghost Protocol?

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[–] Kowalski (63664) 5 years ago

THATS FAIR...MI BELONGS ON A DIFFERENT LIST..TERRIBLE MOVIES THAT STILL LAUNCHED FRANCHISES.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

There is no need for a "citation." Before the internet, people were capable of coming to an agreement about certain things without consulting Wikipedia or some other website. Even without seeing his links, I knew what was going to be on his list because these movies have been discussed to hell and back as being better than the first for decades now.

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[–] samoanjoes (53024) 5 years ago

Mad Max: Fury Road
Evil Dead II

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I never heard of Christmas Vacation being better than the first movie. I'm not saying it's a bad movie, but that it was only as good as the first one but not necessarily better. Ditto The Godfather 2 and Lethal Weapon 2. As good as, but not "better than" in the way that Superman 2, Aliens and Terminator 2 surpassed the originals on every level.

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[–] actionkamen (23176) 5 years ago

Pffft... these movies have been discussed to hell and back as being better than the first for decades now.

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[–] IrinaOma (648) 5 years ago

Aliens, Lethal Weapon 2, Superman 2, Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol are as good as the originals but NOT better.

10 Cloverfield Lane is worse than Cloverfield

I'd add Mad Max 2

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[–] BillySlater (4126) 5 years ago

According to whom? You? Aliens has 99% on RT compared to 97% for Alien. Both great movies, but definitely fair to say people consider Aliens better than Alien. I´d throw in The Empire Strikes Back over Star Wars too.

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[–] dmac8 (5050) 5 years ago

But despite the %, the average rating is slightly lower for Aliens (9.07 vs 9.01)

The only thing that's fair to say is that it's so close that the debate rages on.

Saying "as good" is hardly out of line.

edit: And metacritic has Alien at 89 vs Aliens at 84

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[–] BillySlater (4126) 5 years ago

I only referenced RT because its Tomatometer is an example of where Aliens rates higher. It´s not absurd for someone to opine that the latter is better than the former.

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[–] dmac8 (5050) 5 years ago

Who said it was absurd? From what you've already read from me, you know I don't think that way -- so why the strawman? RT% is just about "fresh" or not -- not the average rating. And you said "people consider Aliens better than Alien" to counter the other poster's claim. RT itself has it a virtual tie and metacritic support Alien. So, you can definitely say "people consider Alien better than Aliens" as well. It's just about which people we're talking about. I'd hazard a guess that you like Aliens more, so I just wonder why you're calling out someone for an opinion that has just as much support as yours.

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[–] BillySlater (4126) 5 years ago

She told me not to make a fool of myself because Alien is in every single "Best movie ever" list, then ranted about Alien´s cultural impact. From that remark, she thinks my position is absurd. So yeah, not a "straw man". Grats on coming up with the ultimate buzzword counter-argument btw.

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[–] dmac8 (5050) 5 years ago

It's a strawman in response to what I said. Make that argument to her rather than me. Or better yet, don't begin by trying to hide your personal view under some supposedly incontrovertible consensus when that's clearly not the case. She puts them on the same level. You don't. Big deal. Don't act like you're being attacked when you swiped first with a misunderstanding of what RT% means as cover for your own opinion. You were doing exactly what you questioned her for doing. "According to whom? You?" is as much about BillySlater as IrinaOma.

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[–] BillySlater (4126) 5 years ago

It was never a straw man because it was never a response to you. Grats on the white knighting job though.

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[–] dmac8 (5050) 5 years ago

Then why did you respond to me with that if it wasn't a response to me?? Why reply to what I wrote with what's meant as a reply to what she wrote? Now that's absurd. "Grats" on batshit logic -- and excuse-making -- and deflecting from something simply born of a frothing love for Aliens that left you unable to let pass a person with a different opinion. Now excuse me now as I finish this debate with someone else here with arguments meant for you. Is that how you do it? Ridiculous.

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[–] BillySlater (4126) 5 years ago

Maybe before you jump into an argument you actually read what was originally written instead of assuming something is directed at you just because you decided to white knight reply for somebody else.

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[–] dmac8 (5050) 5 years ago

I shouldn't assume a reply to me is directed at me?? Anyway, I did read her original statement. And I pointed out what you misstated as a consensus that doesn't exist. "I like Aliens more" is what you meant from the start but you decided to pitch a fact that isn't a fact instead. That's what makes me a "white knight"? B/c I know what RT% means? And b/c I pointed out that your broad conclusion isn't actually true? How did I come at you? With hyperbole like the exchange you two had AFTER I wrote what I wrote? Nope. Don't carry it over to me as though I agree with everything that came afterward. You poked her. She swiped back. I just pointed out the facts BEFORE the latter -- but you decided to merge us in your mind. That's on you. Stop whining and just say what you mean. "I think Aliens is better" is what you meant all along. She has an opinion. You have a different one. Yadda yadda yadda. Frankly, I'm not a big fan of either film. Some "white knight" I turned out to be.

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[–] IrinaOma (648) 5 years ago

Don't make a fool of yourself. Alien is in EVERY single list "Best Movies Ever". Alien has higher ratings almost everywhere. Not to mention the fact that Alien has a MUCH bigger cultural impact and influence. Almost every sci-fi/horror movie copies Alien, not Aliens

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[–] BillySlater (4126) 5 years ago

Aliens is not a horror film so your point is irrelevant. The same could be said of Aliens impact in the action genre. Aliens also features heavily in GOAT lists. Indeed it is considered one of the greatest action films every made. I´m not here to dispute your opinion but there are plenty of people that think Aliens is better than Alien. RT critics and myself included.

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[–] IrinaOma (648) 5 years ago

Aliens is an Action/Horror/Sci-Fi/Adventure movie. This movie includes many genres. And the Alien trilogy is my all-time favorite. Of course I'm aware about countless "Best Movies" lists which include Alien & Aliens but you will NEVER prove that AlienS is more popular or iconic than Alien. That's not even an opinion, that's a FACT.

A ton of people even criticized Cameron for turning xenomorphs into brainless and so weak bugs. Maybe you missed the point but this franchise is about UNIQUE CREATURES XENOMORPHS, not even my girl Ripley.

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[–] R_Kane (15828) 5 years ago

Because, Irina, Alien copied every horror movie that preceded it. It is not influential. It is a derivative in a chain of horror derivation. Alien is not science fiction. Alien is a folks-trapped-in-an-enclosed-space-with-a-monster horror set in outer space. The narrative is what matters. The setting does not. I hold the film in deep contempt.

Aliens, on the other hand, transformed the victimized Ellen Ripley into Ripley the Warrior, and I applaud it.

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[–] actionkamen (23176) 5 years ago

Well to be fair, you probably hold ANYTHING & EVERYTHING in deep contempt.

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[–] db20db (16571) 5 years ago

While he's the most contemptible.

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[–] IrinaOma (648) 5 years ago

Really? Your points are very limited. We did see "monsters in space" before Alien but did we see UNIQUE CREATURE LIFE CYCLE like we did in Alien??? We have one twist after another - the chestburster moment was unpredictable, the Ash twist, the final heroine twist etc. Nothing like that was seen pre-Alien. You can only talk about cheesy "space monsters" films from the 50's and 60's. Nothing deep or creative about them. No one copied them. In 1980 we already had 3 direct Alien rip-offs. This is the real impact. Not to mention other imitations from the 80s/90s/00s.

Ripley became very cool in AlienS. I love that too but again, Alien made her a true icon. Before Alien we didn't have powerful final girl characters in a blockbuster movie. Everyone thought Dallas would be the lead. Alien broke all the rules and you can easily find countless reviews from movie critics & experts who say the same.

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[–] dmac8 (5050) 5 years ago

I don't agree with most of those.

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[–] Mrmojo4700 (20765) 5 years ago

I’m with you. Of the ones I’ve seen on that list, I tend to like the originals better.

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[–] ShogunofYonkers (73625) 5 years ago

The Empire Strikes Back
Rocky II

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[–] chilone (17394) 5 years ago

Hellraiser II

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

People are really having heated arguments about this? How foolish.
Dark Knight is definitely better than Begins, no question.

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[–] Kowalski (63664) 5 years ago

AGREE.

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[–] actionkamen (23176) 5 years ago

The list looks like was designed to incite heated arguments by including questionable choices.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

It doesn't make sense. These folks are acting like they're talking politics. Why get so upset about whether or not one film is better or worse than another? I'm a bit confused.

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