When it was announced that a non-Arab actress would be playing Jasmine in Aladdin the SJW threw a fit because Jasmine is supposed to be Arab (even though Agrabah isn’t a real place but whatever). These same people are now saying we have to accept the race swapping of Ariel or else we are racist.
So is it OK to race swap a character or isn’t’ it? Or is it OK to do it one way but not the other?
I suspect you know the answer to this question already. LOL.
shareWhat’s your answer to the question? Or are you afraid to answer it?
Why was Naomi Scott subjected to bigoted and racist attacks from the SJW crowd, yet we are supposed to shut up and accept it when Halle Berry does literally the same thing?
Who is "the SJW" you're referring to? Do these "same people" have names?
Race swap them all you want to dude. Oh wait, you just watch the films, you don't produce them. :)
https://www.huffpost.com/archive/ca/entry/disney-aladdin-jasmine-naomi-scott_a_23034316
There you go, apparently race swapping isn't OK in some situations, geez it seems like the SJW cult wants there to be two separate sets of rules for people dictated solely on SKIN COLOR. Sounds racist.
So you identified "the SJW" already? Their name is Zack Snyder? Maybe you should not be so concerned about the opinion of a single person? If there is a better way to identify yourself as a snowflake, I don't know what it is. Good luck with that.
shareSo were they wrong to bitch about Naomi’s Scott’s race or weren’t they?
shareYou're rather bold considering you won't answer my questions.
It's free country, they can bitch about what they want. You want rules that everyone else has to follow. Too bad for you.
And you continue to dodge like the coward snowflake we all know you are
shareThey never have consistent actions, constant hypocrisy, and ranb is one. Good luck with any real answers from it.
shareI'm consistent in that I really don't care about the skin color of a character unless it is one of the defining traits of the film. In this case, Ariel's skin color does not really matter at all.
It should be obvious considering that Disney's Ariel is rather far removed from Andersen's Little Mermaid and the character as Disney created it is Disney property.
Lots of other production companies have made their own version of the story. What is stopping you from doing the same and bringing the "truth" to the masses?
I can't wait for the argument that because I'm white I am automatically privileged and favored by society so to counteract that we need to establish two separate sets of rules for black people and white people, and that I can't possibly understand what it's like to be oppressed because I'm white. Go ahead and say it, you know you're dying to you virtue signaling snowflake.
shareWhat can I say that you have not already said? You behave like there are two established separate sets of rules for black and white people. You should stop doing that.
Dude, do you truly believe you are NOT a "social justice warrior"?
sharePerhaps you can define exactly what a SJW is first? I seen a few definitions.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/what-does-social-justice-warrior-sjw-mean
"Social justice warrior and SJW are typically used with sardonic application, referring to a person who is seen as overly enthusiastic about issues of fairness in the treatment of matters of race, gender, or identity."
or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior
"Social justice warrior (SJW) is a pejorative term and internet meme used for an individual who promotes socially progressive, left-wing and liberal views, including feminism, civil rights, gay and transgender rights, identity politics, political correctness and multiculturalism."
or
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Social%20Justice%20Warrior
"A nihilistic group of extreme air heads who beg for a fascist system of government that will adhere to their foolish proven to fail delusions."
or this one, a random definition from Reddit;
"A social justice warrior is someone who uses political grandstanding and identity politics to push a narrative of oppression and victimhood. Social justice Warriors also judge people entirely based on skin color."
I think some people here have mistaken my "don't give a damn" attitude about skin color for their own nonsensical ravings about how anything they disagree with is a direct attack on themselves.
I was going to mention in my initial post that the definition of Social Justice Warrior is in the words that make up the label itself. SOCIAL --> JUSTICE --> WARRIOR. its self explanitory. thats why those words are used.
We already have religion and laws and justice to try to fix humanity, we don't need a non-standardized, feelings variable subjective version of justice canceling whatever some people think needs cancelled. that will reverse due to other people the next month.
Thousands of years religion and laws do an okay job of it, as much as the people will tolerate and agree is functional.... what makes anyone think a personal subjective NEW addition of "social justice" will work at all? Ban books someone doesn't like? it's all been tried before and failed, this is why we have religion and laws to do it.
*I* don't like the color purple! It triggers ME!!! EVERYONE should do without the color purple to protect my fragile self. What kinda shit is that?
So are you a social justice warrior because you support religious laws and culture that denigrate women and make them 2nd class citizens or the chattel of men? I think religion does a horrible job of "fixing humanity".
I hear christians talk about how the threat of hell is what keeps them from raping and murdering their fellow human. They are monsters who wrap themselves in a religious shroud to appear moral when they are only an inch away from being a threat to anyone.
If you're going to use the term SJW when labeling a person, then you better know how it is defined.
Which religion do you favor being used to compel people to behave in a manner you consider acceptable?
what the hell are you even saying? Are you simply going to avoid the modern context in which I am speaking?
your doing it again by judging religion and laws. you're pulling your SJW card and dont even see it.
I'm stating those are society decided FACTUAL organizations that already try to fix the world, and this modern bullshit "I'll fix it myself, based on only MY morality" SJW bullshit is proven dysfunctional.
Since you cant see beyond your narrow vision blinders (like every SJW) there's no point trying to explain it to you. Enjoy failing to fix the world. Just dont tell me which words to use while you do it.
You have failed to define what a SJW is. Saying it is self evident is no good. I'm not trying to fix the world. I'm trying to fix you and failing at it. :)
shareI don't remember there being much of a fuss, if any, about the ethnic background of anyone in a live action Aladdin film, though to be honest I don't even remember there being a live action Aladdin film. I don't keep up on kid's movies, which is probably why. If there even was a fuss over it, let's think it through:
Aladdin is a part of the story The Thousand and One Nights, which is also called The Arabian Nights. The title gives an awfully big clue, but in case you don't know, it's an Arabian story about Arabian characters. Hence, it makes sense to cast Arabian actors in the roles of the Arabian characters. It doesn't mean it has to be done, and after Googling the actress cast as Jasmine I can see why she was chosen. Still, I think you can understand why some people might take pause at the news that she was cast to play an Arabian girl.
The Little Mermaid, on the other hand, is a story about a mermaid. As there are no actual mermaids, the role must be given to a human being. The ethnic background of that human being is of no consequence, as it has no bearing on the story, or the film, whatsoever. So it's very hard to understand any objections to the casting, unless they are based on something other than what makes sense. Objecting to a black actress, and stating a preference for a white actress, doesn't automatically make one a racist, but it's fair to ask the person objecting to explain their reasoning for a statement that is, on the surface, overtly racist.
I hope that clears it up for you.
Agrabah is a fictitious place so they can cast whoever they want, how does Naomi Scott not being of Arab decent make her a less convincing character. Also Aladdin was originally Chinese so casting Arab actors is racist by your logic. If they were going to stay true to the lore they would have cast Far Eastern actors.
And isn’t The Little Mermaid a Norwegian Fairy Tale? It makes sense by your logic to cast a white actress.
You can’t have it both ways on this.
Have what both ways? I'm not having anything any way. I'm pointing out that it makes sense to cast Arabian actors in a film about Arabian characters, but in a film about mermaids, skin color and ethnicity are inconsequential. Equally inconsequential is the fact that story has its roots in a Norwegian fairy tale. The country in which a story originated has nothing to do with the story itself. Why would it? If a German author writes a story about Nigerians, would it make sense to cast Germans as Nigerians in the film adaptation? Of course not.
You take issue with casting a black actress as a mermaid, but you can't offer a legitimate reason why.
You are trying to have it both ways, you are justifying race swapping one way but not the other. Both are remakes of Disney films not other adaptations of the source material, if it’s wrong to change Jasmines race then it’s also wrong to change Ariel’s race. How does Naomi Scott not being of Arab decent make her incapable of playing the character? The original Aladdin tale was set in China so by your logic she should be Chinese. Agrabah is also not a real place so therefore they don’t have to be Arab.
I have a radical idea how about instead of focusing so much on the skin color of actors we just try to tell a good story. I mean Al Pacino isn’t Cuban and that didn’t ruin Scarface. The truth is you people just want something to bitch about and you want fake injustices to fight so you feel good about yourself
You can't change them. They'll only see what they choose to: situational observation social justice.
And it changes by the minute per their feelings, often conflicting with yesterday. They'll never see it, never get it, and eventually they'll eat themselves over stupidity. We just got to wait it out.
Who are these you people? What am I bitching about? I am only responding to you bitching about this. And none of this is about injustices, real or fake. You posted about this, and I responded to what you posted.
My point is very straight-forward:
If a story is about a person of a specific ethnicity, and that ethnicity is in some way tied to the character or story in an intrinsic way, then it makes sense to cast a person of that ethnicity. But it isn't some requirement, as evidenced by the fact that I think the casting of Jasmine is totally fine. I understand why some people took issue with it, but it seems to have worked out well.
If a story is about person where ethnicity doesn't enter into things, then cast an actor who will do a great job in the role, regardless of their ethnic heritage. When casting a mermaid, I think the sky is the limit, and any actress of any background makes sense. All that matters is that she is convincing in the role. The color of her skin is of no consequence.
I’m not bitching about anything I just want to know what the rules are as they are not very clear and seem to be changing all the time. Is it ok to race swap characters or not? If there are two different sets of rules for people based on skin color then you’re racist it’s that simple.
By looking at Naomi Scott in Aladdin could you tell she wasn’t Arab? How did that hurt her performance? There wasn’t any reason to take issue with Naomi Scott , her ethnicity literally had nothing to do with her performance and I’ll reiterate Agrabah ISNT A REAL PLACE so it shouldn’t matter if they are Arab or not. Your logic doesn’t make any sense, kid
And hell while I’m at it the entire cast sounded American(not very authentic for Arab characters now is it?) yet you people only bitched about her skin color, that says a lot about you.
There's no set of rules. The point is that the ethnic heritage of the actor has no bearing on the part they are playing, unless they are playing a role that is in part defined by ethnicity. How hard is that to understand?
If you are casting for a mermaid, it doesn't matter if the actress has Japanese ancestry, Nigerian ancestry, or French ancestry.
If you are casting for a doctor in Nebraska, it doesn't matter if the actor has Cuban ancestry, Russian ancestry, or Italian ancestry.
If you are casting for a slave on a plantation in 1820s Alabama, it makes sense to case a black actor. You can cast an actor of another race, but you should probably have a compelling reason to do so.
if you are casting for an Arabian princess for an Arabian fairy tale, it makes sense to cast an Arabian actress. You can cast an actress of another race, but you should probably have a compelling reason to do so.
You keep saying Agrabah isn't a real place. How is that relevant? The story set there is from The Arabian Nights, and it's clearly a story of an Arabian kingdom. Wakanda is a fictional country in Africa, but it's clearly an African nation, so the filmmakers populated it with black actors.
No rules, but one set of common sense guidelines.
And, again, who are all these "you people" you're grouping me in with. I wasn't even aware that there was a live action Aladdin movie until you mentioned it, so how am I suddenly someone who bitched about the skin color of an actress I'd never heard of until two days ago?
And Agrabah isn't a real place so no one in Aladdin is defined by any kind of ethnicity. What should be important is if the actor can convincingly portray the character. Example: Pierce Brosnan is NOT British however he was able to convincingly play James Bond and respect the source material so therefore that wasn't a problem, it would have been a problem had they cast Harrison Ford because he can't do a convincing British accent. Understand?
Also Mermaids are half human so therefore by your standard the race should matter.
If you are casting a part for a slave in the 1860's they should look black but they don't have to be from America or even Africa, they could have been born in France for all I care but if they can convincingly play a slave in the 1800's then fine. But by your standard if they were born in France then they shouldn't have the part. Naomi Scott looks like she would be from the culture that the rest of the characters are from so therefore it shouldn’t matter. By looking at her you cannot tell that she isn’t of Arab decent so what’s the difference? Again Al Pacino played a convincing Cuban in Scarface so no one complained, he was able to pull it off because he’s a hell of a good actor.
The problem you have is the only issue you have with Naomi Scott is her race, not her acting ability or her ability to portray a character consistent with the source material and that makes you a racist.
On the contrary I am calling bullshit that Hans Christian Anderson envisioned Ariel being black so by your standard Halle Berry shouldn't be playing Ariel. They cast her because they wanted to show how progressive they are, and they wanted to bait fans into saying something stupid so they could play the victim and blame the films inevitable poor box office returns on racism or some shit.
And of course Agrabah not being real is relevant, Agrabah doesn't have to convincingly portray an Arab culture because it isn't real. You just said that since Ariel isn't really a person then she doesn't have to be a certain skin color, well Agrabah isn't real so therefore the residents don't have to be a certain skin color. BOTH ARE FANTASY. Agrabah is not a portrayal of any actual Arab culture, it's a complete work of FICTION and you people (those who obsess over race and skin color so you can virtue signal) pitched a fit because she wasn't the right race. But when it goes the other way we are just supposed to shut up and accept it. Beyond hypocritical.
You lack anything resembling common sense. and you never answered my question as to how her ethnicity kept her from playing a convincing Jasmine. I could buy that she was from the same culture that the rest of the cast was so it wasn't a problem (much like how I could buy that Pierce Brosnan was British, I bet you didn’t care because he’s white), the only problem you had with her was her race which once again makes you a racist. And hell if you wanted the film to be authentic then the cast shouldn't have been speaking with American accents, authenticity went out the window a long time ago and you people didn't really seem to care until an actress was cast who wasn't the right race, something you wouldn’t have even known had you not done some research. And the original story was in China so if you really wanted it to be consistent with the source material then the entire cast should be Chinese, why weren’t you complaining about that?
You can't have it both ways, numb nuts and you're trying to (very pathetically)
I'm starting to get the sense that you aren't even reading my replies, because you are arguing against points I've never made. I never once said Naomi Scott was a bad choice for Jasmine. In fact, I said I think she's a good choice. Just like Pacino was a good choice for Tony Montana. And Brosnan for Bond. And Bailey for Ariel. What Hans Christian Anderson had in mind when writing his story doesn't matter at all. If he comes back from the dead and makes a movie, he's free to cast who he wants.
You can easily summarize your argument by writing "I don't want to see black people in roles where I expect white people."
You can easily summarize mine with "I don't care about an actor's ethnic background, I only care that they can act the part."
You can easily summarize your argument by writing "I don't want to see black people in roles where I expect white people."
And now you're strawmanning because I didn't say that nor did I imply it. All I asked for was consistency and not to establish a standard where it's OK to race swap here because they are this race, but it's not here because they are this race. That is the literal definition of racism. If I had a problem with "black people" in roles where I expect white people then I would have been bitching about Jeffery Wright playing Felix Leiter for the past decade and a half. Congrats on making the most ignorant post I've read today.
I'm only pointing out what you wrote, and the inconsistencies in your statements. It's okay for Disney to "race swap," to use your ridiculous term, an actress who is half white and half Indian into the role of an Arabian princess, but it isn't okay to cast a black actress as a mermaid? How else can one interpret that other than you only taking issue with changes when they go from white to black? Your statements make no sense, and I can see in your writing that you are struggling to justify your nonsensical point-of-view.
If you want consistency, then consider adopting my point of view: unless a characters ethnicity is in some way a defining trait, any actor or actress can play any role. It's acting. It's make-believe. Skin color, hair color, eye color, height, weight, being right- or left-handed, sporting a mustache or being clean-shaven, and any other arbitrary traits are inconsequential.
How many black women do you know who can swim good? Aren’t most folktales about Mermaids from predominantly white cultures? I must have missed the tales from Africa about Mermaids catching Ebola.
shareThere was some controversy over Naomi Scott being cast as Jasmine because the character was still meant to be Arab, and by casting a non-Arab actress, people argued that Disney was essentially promoting the idea that brown people are interchangeable.
shareThey literally were not doing that. Naomi Scott was capable of playing an Arab character so it made sense to cast her, and by suggesting that was what they were implying is racist. So is Disney now saying that white people are interchangeable by casting a black actress to play Ariel?
shareWhat do you mean she was “capable of playing an Arab character”? Naomi Scott isn’t Arab, but she was cast to play a character who was Arab. Jasmine’s ethnicity wasn’t changed for the remake. They simply pretended that a non-Arab actress was Arab, which some people were upset about. The only way your comparison would even remotely work is if this movie’s version of Ariel is still meant to be white, despite being played by a black actress.
shareCould you tell she wasn’t Arab? How does her race prevent her from playing the character? And while we’re on the subject the entire cast sounded American so authenticity was thrown out the window a long time ago, yet you people are only complaining about skin color. You don’t actually care about authenticity you just want to fee good about yourself and show the world you aren’t racist (which you are)
They had no reason to be upset, as we know from TLM it’s ok to race swap characters
Again, some people were mad about it because they saw it as Disney suggesting that brown people are interchangeable. You’re not exactly contradicting that by saying stuff like that “could you tell she wasn’t Arab?”
shareYet Disney said no such thing so therefore no one is responsible for their assumption other than the people who made the baseless assumption.
Also I didn’t say that, I said Naomi Scott was able to effectively portray her character just as much as the rest of the cast, whether she’s actually Arab or not is irrelevant, just like it wasn’t relevant that Pierce Brosnan wasn’t British. Also the entire cast sounded very American, Authenticity was thrown out a long time ago, not to mention that Aladdin is a fairy tale and the place it is portraying is 100% FICTITIOUS, they don’t have to abide by any social justice rules or whatever because it takes place in a fantasy universe.
Hell while I’m at it, pretty much the entire cast of the original was white, funny how you people haven’t been bitching about that for the past 2 decades. I guess you finally just realized that complaining about Aladdin was a good way to make yourself feel important.
You asked why people were mad about the Princess Jasmine situation. I gave you a clear answer for why that was the case.
Also, what does the characters sounding American have to do with anything? No one ever complained about Naomi Scott not having an accent. Also, in regards to the original Aladdin film, it actually has faced its fair share of controversy over the years, which includes the fact that the characters are voiced by white people.
Well, about voicing ... didn't Disney brag about ANIMALS being voiced by black actors in Lion King live action remake???
And BTW, I've almost NEVER seen romanian characters played by romanian actors. WTF is this shit???
Even Dracula was NEVER played by a romanian guy. I mean .. REALY???
Those characters are white so no one cares about them because they are white.
shareDid Disney brag about that? Can you show us an example of actual bragging?
If you have almost never seen Romanian charactors played by Romanian actors, it is probably because you do not watch Romanian films? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_of_Romania It is not fair if you keep your head in the sand and then complain that you know nothing of the world.
Bela Lugosi was born in what is now Lugoj, Romania. Is that close enough? Stefan Sileanu of Romania played Vlad/Dracula in the film Vlad Tepes, which was made in Romania.
It really looks bad when you are triggered by your own ignorance.
"If you have almost never seen Romanian charactors played by Romanian actors, it is probably because you do not watch Romanian films?"
You cannot be THAT dumb, actually I know you are. Obviously I'm talking about Disney, Hollywood movies, OBVIOUSLY Romanian movies have Romanian actors, idiot. If they insist on putting actors of x ethnicity to play characters of x ethnicity they should do it all over.
Lugosi is one example in a sea of Dracula characters. Garry Oldman, Claes Bang, Jack Palance, Luke Evans, Frank Langella, Christopher Lee, Louis Jourdan - they ARE NOT Romanian.
"It really looks bad when you are triggered by your own ignorance."
Yeah, but it applies to you.
You emphasized the word "never", so you cannot expect anyone reading your post that were you only talking about Disney. You should not call others dumb because they read what you wrote, not what you "meant".
So you're sticking to your claim that Dracula was never played by a Romanian even after I listed Sileanu as one of those who did?
Listing a source and names to prove you wrong is not being triggered. You going bat-crap crazy is a fine example of triggering.
Never in the context you dumbo. Do you understant what "context" means??
Let me explain it to you: Never in this context means never by Disney/Hollywood movies.
Btw, Lugosi although born in Romania is of Hungarian ethnicity. For a Romanian that's even more offensive ...
Nope. Never means never. Get used to it.
So who are those Romanians who are allegedly offended by Lugosi's portrayal of Dracula?
Nope, Never is not as absolute as you think. "I've never seen you there" is a valid expression and it doesn't mean, as you seem to think "I've never seen you, ever" Is logic that hard for you?
All of them!!
Romanians usually have a beef with Hungarians, specially with the ones born in Romania, they usually see Transilvania as a Hungarian territory and talk of secession.
The usual definition of never accepted by almost everyone else is, "not ever : at no time".
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/never
This is one way that dishonest people try to win arguments. When they are losing, they try to reinforce their argument by using a definition of a word that is not the usually accepted one.
I suspect that simply being honest is hard for you.
I don't care if Hungarians and Romanians have a problem with each other. This is just you trying to argue something that does not matter.
logic, you have none.
Really, read some logic books, should help you with all your problems.
And that reason isn’t legitimate and it’s based on double standards and hypocrisy.
People bitched about Naomi Scott not being Arab, yet NO ONE in the cast even sounded Arab, they sounded as American as you and I, yet no one seemed to criticize the rest of the cast for not sounding Arab and not accurately reflecting Arab culture in a completely fictitious culture in a completely fantasy universe.
And if people are bitching about Aladdin being voiced by white people then they shouldn’t flip out when people point out that Ariel was race swapped. You can’t have it both was.
My point is you are selectively picking and choosing what you choose to be outraged about based on what fits your narrative, you aren’t legitimate.
What does sounding Arab even mean?
shareDurka Durka? But only if you watched too much Team American, World Police. Haha.
shareI see you have nothing of value to contribute to this discussion. Please stop posting on my thread.
shareI'm responding in kind to your drivel. So yeah, both of us have nothing of value to contribute to this conversation. You're welcome.
shareI asked a very simple question and you didn’t provide anything resembling an intelligent response. If you’re going to troll me then kindly take your immature tactics elsewhere. Thank you.
shareNot the same as American. Why don’t you try getting to know an Arab person and you’ll know. Disney never gave a crap about representing an authentic Arab culture which makes the outrage over Naomi Scott’s skin color pointless and absurd, not to mention racist
shareWhat do you mean??? Didn't they cast Antonio Banderas as an Arab???
Clearly they know and respect the culture :D
????????
Also I’m not the one saying that the ethnicity of the actor automatically qualifies or disqualifies them from certain roles.
If a black person who was born in England was capable of playing a slave in the 1800’s that wouldn’t be a problem.
13 Warriors. Banderas plays an Arab.
Well, I do think that being able to portray the character the actor needs to be as close to the character as possible. Or AT LEAST look like it.
Does Banderas look like an Arab?
I haven’t seen 13 warriors but if he could convincingly play an Arab I’m fine with it, just like Pierce Brosnan could convincingly play a British guy
share"The 13th Warrior" (1999)
shareWe live in a anti-white culture. Everything that is non-white needs to have "more representation" and "inclusion" and words like that. Language is used as a tool for war. What these people really mean is they want white people to die. It's that simple.
shareI know that’s hyperbole but what’s sad is you aren’t that far off. President Diaper Joe just recently gave a speech telling his mob to go murder Republicans or anyone who supports Trump.
shareIt's not hyperbole I meant everything I said. If you made Blade a white character it would be a crime against humanity and there would be riots in the streets because their simple formula is that replacing whites is the good moral thing to do.
You mention Biden he was talking about this before getting elected saying "whites will be a minority in the future and that's a good thing". Our culture praises the destruction of white people and this is just the latest example to add to a long list.
I didn't even know about that until now because I can't get past how stupid Will Smith looks on the poster.
share