MovieChat Forums > Alien: Covenant (2017) Discussion > A very good movie....will be appreciated...

A very good movie....will be appreciated with time

posted 3 years ago by DeadMac1 (159)
49 replies | jump to latest

Just saw the movie again after 3 years. It was really fresh and an enjoyable experience.

I disliked it when it was just released but I realize now that the reason was because it killed Shaw and negated the exciting adventure of Shaw & David set at the end of Prometheus. Also, it felt very uncanny at first to see David suddenly changing outright villainous as compared to the grey character of his in Prometheus.

But one little thing helped me recently to view the movie differently and it was a short film: 'Alien Alone' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApNPbQxMFtk

Simply, its about being given a 'Purpose' to a Robot.

Anyway....I would like to state some points of my theory which can help understand the movie better.

1. From the deleted scenes we learn that David on Engineers' spaceship, tried to learn Engineer's ways...their purpose & methods. He has already seen Engineers' hatred towards Earth humans which he finds as a common attribute. He develops a god complex and similar to Engineers...he too want to create & destroy.

2. Planet 4 was not a homeland of the Engineers. It was just a planet terraformed by the Engineers and seeded with life but much recently than what they did on Earth. Hence we see humanoids on Planet 4 living in roman-era kind of primitive habitat.

The engineers on LV-223 had set each of their spaceships to several planets where they had seeded life and wanted to destroy them all. One of such spaceship was the one which was set to destroy life on Planet 4 and the one in which Shaw & David took off.

So eventually, they landed on Planet 4.

Perhaps, the Engineers world was devastated by some human race which they created in some altogether different planet and who got highly technologically advanced and waged war with the Engineers and its after this, the Engineers decided to destroy all humans they ever created terming them as their flawed creation.

3. Enroute Planet 4 , Shaw falls sick and dies. David unleashes the Black goo mutagen and kills the humanoids just how the Engineers intended to do. He crash lands in the forest and some of the remnant Black goo spilled and went flowing down mutating spore producing fungus growing on trees.

4. David tried to revive Shaw (the only human he loved) in his way but wasn't successful. He cracks and goes on a quest of 'creation'.

He sets the SOS on the spaceship and lures possible travelers. And voila, he got lucky with Covenant carrying 2000 colonists.

Please see the movie considering above premise, and things will start to fall in place & make sense.

Just a side note: Xenomoprh lifecycle was never created by David. He may have created the variant of Xenomoprh which we've been seeing in all other Alien movies but not the lifecycle because the lifceycle (Egg to facehugger to Xeno) was seen on the Mural in Prometheus so it existed much before the events of Alien Covenant.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

I've liked this since I saw it. Prefer it to Prometheus by a mile. I was incredibly disappointed in that movie. It simply wasn't scary. None of the big scenes were impactful. It was a very good looking, but flat movie. The creature's life cycle just doesn't make much sense either. Why does David need to create a version of the creature that has a longer life cycle if you simply throw black good on someone and get the same result?

Shaw was nothing special to me, so I didn't mind that she was gone. I would not have minded a few more scenes with her - there's a deleted scene or extended edition with her and David on the ship that I liked a lot - but I didn't mind that she was killed off.

More of her and David would have been nice though. David is just fun to watch. He is both Frankenstein and the monster all in one. He started out as the creation - was extremely resentful of it - and then became the creator. He's a mad scientist and total psychopath. I want a 3rd movie if for no other reason than to see more David and his obsession with the Engineers.

I don't think it's clear who the people on the planet are. They sound like the Engineers, but don't look like them. I think you are probably right - that they are simply another breed of humanoids created by the Engineers. They Engineers were not on their way to kill them, they were on their way to kill US. It is very heavily implied humans killed one of them believed to be Jesus. Out of anger, they were going to wipe humanity out.

[–] DeadMac1 (159) 3 years ago

Nice post, Kuatorises!

The creature's life cycle just doesn't make much sense either.. Why does David need to create a version of the creature that has a longer life cycle if you simply throw black good on someone and get the same result?

David's intention was not to create creature. He spiked Halloway's drink with the black goo just to observe the good or bad effect it could possibly provide. If it happens to be some sort of elixir of life, Weyland can take it.

The rest was just a happenstance.

Prometheus was more subtle and it expanded the Alien universe to new directions. Otherwise all other Alien movies only kept revolving round the Xenomorph.

And yes, a 3rd movie is badly needed.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

I'm not talking about David's intentions, I'm talking about the change in the creature's life cycle.

The series mythology tells us that eggs are produced, a facehugger emerges from it, impregnates a host, chestburster pops up, and we know the rest. It's awesome and the root of the series' mythology. But in comes this movie, changing that. All you gotta do is throw some black go on someone or in the case of Holloway, get them to ingest it. I assume the same thing was happening to both him and Fifield. It makes the classic lifecycle seem almost unnecessary, if not slower. LESS efficient. Why does David (in Covenant) then go on to alter the creature to the point of creating extra steps in the growth process when all you gotta do is sprinkle someone with black goo?

This is sometimes the problem with prequels - the create problems instead of answering questions. The original movies didn't do anything, this is a prequel problem. It created an issue that didn't exist before in an attempt to expand the mythology.

Now as to what David's intentions were, I don't think the movie is clear on that AT. ALL. David very clearly resented what he was. He followed orders because he had to, but he did not like or respect Weyland or Vickers; and I thought it was pretty obvious he openly resented them too. He also resented Holloway's comments towards him about just being a machine. I think he either knew or highly suspected/hoped poisoning Holloway's drink would lead to some kind of chaos or outbreak. I think he justified doing that to his programming because he was under orders from Weyland to "do better" and since he didn't know what the black liquid would do, could say to himself, "It could have easily have helped as much as it hurt." Hell, he could have poisoned Weyland and it technically would have helped. He would have turned into a monster, but wouldn't have been a dying old man anymore.

[–] DeadMac1 (159) 3 years ago

I think he either knew or highly suspected/hoped poisoning Holloway's drink would lead to some kind of chaos or outbreak. I think he justified doing that to his programming because he was under orders from Weyland to "do better" and since he didn't know what the black liquid would do, could say to himself, "It could have easily have helped as much as it hurt."

Its a nice theory. He would surely hope for an indirect way to let Weyland die.

About the Black goo, I do kind of dislike the way they had the Black goo function in different ways. In Prometheus, we learned that its out and out mutant. But in Covenant, we learned that when dropped, it forms a swarm of insect kind of thing (Excerpt from the film ". The original black liquid turned to lethal particles when exposed to air. Later stages produced parasites and invasive insects. From their eggs came, well... this enviable bestiary.") and attacks the humanoid on Planet 4. That was too much out of the way....felt like the film-makers made it function the way it suited them to tell the story without maintaining consistency.

So I almost omit the whole attacking air particles part of the movie and still look at the Black goo purely as a mutant. Mutating organism with Xeno DNA (acid blood, predatory behavior) and if it comes in contact with a reproductive organ, it mutates the fertilized egg into a facehugger --- jut like Shaw's fertilised egg gave birth to the facehugger that facehugged the Engineer.

So the Black goo is the origin of the Xenomorph lifecycle. So it expands to Black goo ---> reproductive organ --> Egg ---> Facehugger ---> Chestbuster ----> Xenomorph

This also favors Ridley Scott's early belief that the Facehugger eggs were produced in Lab as he never liked the Queen Xenomoprh laying eggs theory.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

I forgot it swarmed like that in Covenant. Another example of it doing whatever the plot needed it to do. Ridley got super sloppy in that respect. Ridley really didn't think this aspect of the prequels through. We've got the classic egg life cycle, but wait! None of that matters because you just toss some black goo on someone!

And speaking of the good, it turns humans and other lifeforms into xenomorphs - or similar creatures - but he drops it on an entire city of Engineers and it just melts them. No transformation into xenomorphs.

[–] DeadMac1 (159) 3 years ago

And speaking of the good, it turns humans and other lifeforms into xenomorphs - or similar creatures - but he drops it on an entire city of Engineers and it just melts them. No transformation into xenomorphs.

Yeah, I agree. But then its an incomprehensible Alien technology. Probably, its sole purpose was a weapon meant to be bombed & dropped but it's side effect was mutation if came in contact.

...I mean, exactly like how the Black liquid acted in 'District 9'. Originally it was a Fuel meant to drive the spaceship. But it also acted as a Mutant when inhaled turning the protagonist into an alien.

[–] Todgey (7) 2 years ago

This also favours Ridley Scott's early belief that the Facehugger eggs were produced in Lab as he never liked the Queen Xenomorph laying eggs theory.

He actually went with the Alien itself creating the egg.. The alien would occasionality inject a victim with an enzyme that triggers it to mutate into an Ovimorph, from which the Facehugger would spring when disturbed, latching itself around it's victims head and placing a seed into it's digestive tract, that burst forth as the Chestburster, which would become the Alien, starting the cycle again.

That would mean you'd need two victims to create one Xenomorph, and that's without the ones used as food. Making the Alien a solitary predator, and not a swarming space ant a certain Mr Cameron introduced in his sequel.

[–] Kendricks (2086) 3 years ago

"A very good movie....will be appreciated with time"

No, it won't, because nothing about this movie is compelling.
The story and script is hilarious, the people act like absolute idiots, people die for shock factor/because they need to be out of the way. The visuals will only age... and that's it.

Alien will forever be a classic because it does not have these problems. The story is simple but more or less flawless, unlike Covenant contains unforeseeable twist (David/Walter swap compared to Ash being a synth with an agenda), the people aboard Nostromo do what most of us would have done and are actually interesting/authentic, and they die because the creature is dangerous and they have nowhere to go, not "because it is in the script".

I'll do the fingering.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

"the people act like absolute idiots

Alien will forever be a classic because it does not have these problems. "

1. The people were faaaaaar dumber in Prometheus. Those two idiot scientists, bahahahaha!

2. Making bad decisions has been a staple all the way back to the original. Ash should have never been allowed on the ship. Then allowed to roam around when he wakes up? And Dallas chasing an alien speices into an air duct, LOL?!

[–] Kendricks (2086) 3 years ago

1. How so? Also, Prometheus is the one were not one but two grown ass "intelligent" women run away from an object rolling after them... in a straight line. Prometheus is also the movie where "elite scientists" take off their helmets on a strange planet and try to pet foreign life forms they know nothing about, even when these obviously threaten them (the cobra thing in the beginning).
Nothing in Alien comes even close to that, but feel free to deliver examples.

2. Ash was a science officer assigned to the ship by the company. Exactly what could Dallas have done? Say no to the mega corporation that could, and would, replace him in a heartbeat for not following orders? And why exactly should Dallas assume Ash is hostile or has any ill intent? And why would an officer not be allowed to freely roam the ship he is assigned to?

You make no sense while reaching for straws.

As for "stupid" Dallas, he realized the issue cannot just be ignored and something must be done. As the officer in charge, he did what was expected of him - lead by example. None of them had any knowledge of the alien's capabilities, but after Brett died, obviously, something had to be done and sitting back was no option. Without guns, makeshift weaponry was their only option.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

"How so?"

In addition to the two dummies I mentioned - Fifield and Milburn - you just answered your own question:

"Also, Prometheus is the one were not one but two grown ass "intelligent" women run away from an object rolling after them... in a straight line. Prometheus is also the movie where "elite scientists" take off their helmets on a strange planet and try to pet foreign life forms they know nothing about, even when these obviously threaten them (the cobra thing in the beginning)."

"Nothing in Alien comes even close to that, but feel free to deliver examples."

You mean like Kane entering a room filled with alien eggs? Dallas bringing a guy with an alien attached to his face into a ship with others and then proceeding to let him walk around once he wakes up? My man, these people are always dumb.

[–] DeadMac1 (159) 3 years ago

Watch the film again and pay attention this time.

At one particular time both Vickers & Shaw turned sharp 90' to their left. But to their bad luck, due to the uneven ground, the spaceship too happened to roll towards their side. And most of the time there were falling debris which didn't let them turn sideways.

They took off their helmets after it was confirmed not once but twice that the air was clean and cleaner than Earth.

Fifield was in a protective suit and wearing helmet this time. The characters of the movie doesn't know the future events of Alien. So even in their wildest imagination, they couldn't know that the Alien snake could have acid blood.

[–] Kendricks (2086) 3 years ago

"pay attention"
I did.

"At one particular time both Vickers & Shaw turned sharp 90' to their left."
Long after they STARTED to run straight away from that thing for a long time instead of just... moving to the side.
And there was no debris blocking anything at that point and later they also could have moved pretty much wherever they wanted
"Oh no, where to run I wonder!? I got it, let's run away from it!"
https://i.imgur.com/KiOG8PY.jpeg

Nice try, though.

"They took off their helmets after it was confirmed not once but twice that the air was clean and cleaner than Earth."
That is a tad ambiguous, no?
We can have super clean air in areas as well but there still might be things around us that can change this quickly... Think of it like some fucking mushrooms you barely touch and which then spoil the air with pathogens that will kill you dead! Imagine something like this would have happened.... oh wait it did, in Covenant, another "clean air" planet.

You missed my point on purpose, or you really did not get it. Either way, nice try again.

"they couldn't know that the Alien snake could have acid blood."
Acid blood? No, they hardly could have expected that.
But that's why you stay away from an alien life form you encountered 10 seconds prior instead of trying to fucking pet it, with your helmet removed, especially when it erects itself, makes itself bigger and starts to make fucking hissing noises.

Oh I wonder whatever that could possibly mean inside the animal kingdom, but all rules - and instincts - are out the window because "alien planet" and let's be honest: So the movie can happen.

And thatis why these movies are fucking bullshit, while Alien is timeless.

[–] DeadMac1 (159) 3 years ago

"with your helmet removed"

Fifield was wearing the helmet at that moment. Your quote above itself shows you didn't pay attention and henceforth there's no sense in continuing this chat with you.

[–] Kendricks (2086) 3 years ago

Really, that is all you gotta say to all the points I made?

And just how much of a hypocrite are you!?
You told me I was wrong about the women running away from the rolling space ship and it turned out I wasn't. I could build the same strawman here and try to discredit you with stupid "muh no attention duh" nonsense, but I prefer arguments and contrary to you, I have some.

Also, what fucking difference does it make if he wore the helmet or not?
It remains a stupid thing to do and EVERYTHING ELSE I said in that regard, you conveniently ignored.

And if there's no point in continuing this chat with me - why did you respond again?
Oh, is it because you were desperate to have the last word and at least convince yourself how right you are and that you "really showed me"?

Pathetic.
Just take a fucking hike dude.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

Why are you sooo mad?

[–] triplea (3577) 3 years ago

Prometheus is the dumbest movie I've ever seen, and I'm serious.

[–] TrentnQuarantino (8591) 3 years ago

Alien is a classic, for now, because of its initial presentation, much like 2001. It showed a new world to the audience, but 2001 showed a thoughtful, or transcendental world, whereas Alien showed a twisted world that made no sense, but was cool to look at. Movies like this really eventually just fade away, even Alien but we can forgive Alien because it didn't make pretentious claims or put on airs, the same with Aliens, but these clodhopper moronic movies pretended to come back 30 years later or more and try to extend the series, but did it in a way where there was no connection to the original movies, expect a vague claim to have something to do with both of them. Prometheus and Covenant ran away from their primary objective - to plug into in some interesting way to the audience to the two original movies. I would leave all the other movies out, because they all had the same problem ... they did not know how to continue the Alien series in the same way as Aliens added to Alien. The bottom line is that both movies were incoherent and only made to confuse and make money. It's a trick. Confuse the audience and then put shills out on the internet chat rooms and tell them its great and they missed something to sell more tickets. Of course when there is nothing there people have to go back and see it again. It's not worth it. In fact it detracts from Alien and Aliens they are so stupid.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

"Alien showed a twisted world that made no sense"

What are you talking about? Makes no sense, LOL? Alien is a very clear cut movie. There's mystery as to what the creatures are and where the ship came from, but the movie is very straight-forward and easy to follow.

"Prometheus and Covenant ran away from their primary objective - to plug into in some interesting way to the audience to the two original movies."

This I agree with. I distinctly remember at one point there was supposed to be one movie and it was supposed to be about that specific Space Jockey's ship. Then it turned into this quest for mankind's origin. Ridley got REALLY off-track.

"The bottom line is that both movies were incoherent and only made to confuse and make money. It's a trick. Confuse the audience and then put shills out on the internet chat rooms and tell them its great and they missed something to sell more tickets."

I think you are a little too caught up in your own head right now. You have no idea what their intentions were or proof the movies were only made to "make money", ha! You're just rambling at this point. Alien is not the series to make money off of btw. They've never been a huge success.

"In fact it detracts from Alien and Aliens they are so stupid."

Yeah, no. Sequels have no baring on the original's quality.

[–] TrentnQuarantino (8591) 3 years ago

Well, to me it made no sense. First, what a stupid life form - it was just a monster. Second, how did it go from being the size of a chicken to huge without eating anything? If it could grow like that without eating anything ... why did it have such specialized mouth parts and eat people. The behavior of the crew made no sense ... like many have pointed out ... why did they let it in?

Not to mention why did they still use expensive CRT monitors and fluorescent lights to light the ship.

> This I agree with. I distinctly remember at one point there was supposed to be one movie and it was supposed to be about that specific Space Jockey's ship. Then it turned into this quest for mankind's origin. Ridley got REALLY off-track.

Yeah, well despite your protests you really cannot disagree with me because my points are based on facts. My opinions are my interpretation of those facts.

Same thing with the Terminator movies , the first two were great, everything after just ruins it and makes the other movies look bad. Same thing with Lost and Game Of Thrones ... a series ( compared a string of movies to TV series ) can be great, but a poor ending can ruin the whole thing.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

The xenomorph isn't a natural animal. The black goo is made up of nanomachines, but even ignoring the prequels, they literally look biomechanical and always have. They LOOK part machine.

I agreed with you that Scott got away from his original goal of making the movie about the Space Jockey, I am not saying I don't enjoy the prequels. I like Covenant quite a bit and think it's much better than Prometheus.

[–] TrentnQuarantino (8591) 3 years ago

One thing I could not really get past in Covenant was their ship's command structure and again a total lack of professionalism and discipline.

The idea that they would be less lax about command and discipline when space time voyages are at stake than we are today, and that the equivalent of fat, sloppy, unkempt and stupid truckers will be in command of starships is a non-starter.

Viewers went along with it in Alien, but that doesn't mean they accepted it, and for directors to push it past the breaking point.

You like it because you like it ... I can't argue with that. There is a part of me ... a very small part that enjoyed these movies simply because it was kind of communal experience in the theater with lots of other fans ... but that speaks for about 3% of my total judgement of the movies ... which is low ... very low.

[–] TrentnQuarantino (8591) 3 years ago

Kendricks, you nailed it. All the blather analyzing or praising this movie on this page is ridiculous. Both Prometheus and Covenant seem crafted by insane people with access to lots of money and computer graphics equipment with no idea of what to do with it.

[–] Kendricks (2086) 3 years ago

That's a pretty accurate summary actually...
If I'd have to describe both Prometheus and Covenant with one word, it would be pretentious.

I have no idea what happened to Ridley Scott. He used to make great movies but both Prometheus and Covenant are so insufferably awful it baffles me the same guy directed Alien... but then again... he merely directed it, he did not "make it up". That was more O'Bannon IIRC.

Maybe Scott just really sucks when he's also behind the screenplay and script?

[–] TrentnQuarantino (8591) 3 years ago

I don't know how he is connected to the series Raised By Wolves, but it sucks in the same way ... it cannot focus on an actual story, it spawns off like a weed in a million different directions none of which are interesting or make sense. They start with something interesting a technique, effect, or premise, and then constantly blow it up just to be assholes.

[–] DeadMac1 (159) 3 years ago

Every Alien movies seemingly have characters who act stupid.

>> The prime stupidity itself is carrying a Cat on board and letting it free. It can move anywhere in the spaceship; could jump on switchboards and be responsible for any technical adversity.
>> Blatantly ignoring Quarantine protocols and letting both the 'live' Alien & the infected person inside the spaceship. And that too...its comes from the captain of the ship who is ordering his subordinate to let them in.
>> Looking down a freshly opened Alien egg after having seen a moving creature inside & knowing the fact that they are inside a derelict with an already dead Alien pilot with his chest blasted.

Kenrick's line: "the people aboard Nostromo do what most of us would have done and are actually interesting/authentic"

- This by far is the absolute most wrong statement on this board. No.....no educated person would ever do that in reality.

[–] TrentnQuarantino (8591) 3 years ago

> Kenrick's line: "the people aboard Nostromo do what most of us would have done and are actually interesting/authentic"

I am sure the sailors who are manning our nuclear submarines are authentic just like this too.

[–] Kendricks (2086) 3 years ago

"- This by far is the absolute most wrong statement on this board."

You could not have been more hyperbolic if you tried... Jesus.

[–] DeadMac1 (159) 3 years ago

[deleted]

[–] HillbillyIdol (20) 3 years ago

Nailed it! Totally agree. It just went sideways from the start. Here we probably have one of humanitys most important and biggest excpeditons, and the crew decides to just ignore their mission and destination to go chasing after the origins of an unknown poor quality broadcast that shows some woman singing "Take me home, country roads"? WTF?

And when they first land on the unknown planet they know nothing about, they decide to asemble a team to go out searching when they have an android onboard that could do it instead without them, leaving them safe in the lander until he got back with his report of what he found out? I could go on and on...

[–] BourbonKing (5639) 3 years ago

Before even opening your post I knew you were going to reference the BTSes and deleted scenes available on the Blu-Ray.

If the movie can't stand alone with what's shown then it's a poorly made movie. No amount of after-market information can save the film itself.

[–] DeadMac1 (159) 3 years ago

Most of the ambiguous movies let the viewer derive their own interpretation. Everyone are at their liberty to form their own theories to explain the mysteries and events of the movie. For that, one can chose to cite outside material or the deleted scenes; some one else wouldn't and that's perfectly fine. There's no compulsion to cite extratextual content.

Even Alien had unanswered questions. For movies like 2001: A Space Odyssey, various persons form different interpretation, some choose to cite the novel and some don't. Its perfectly fine.

If Ambiguous movies with unanswered questions is not your cup of tea, that's Ok. But that doesn't mean its a poorly made movie.

[–] BourbonKing (5639) 3 years ago

This wasn't an ambiguous movie. It was a sloppy movie riddled with weak character arcs, lousy writing, and cheap, trope-heavy "truckers in space" caricatures.

Alien was pretty straightforward with its ambiguity and that's what made it both terrifying and intriguing. The mystery behind the space jockey and the anamorphic derelict ship with its biomorphic design really gave me the sense of unease yet piqued my curiosity.

"2001" was based on a novel so I wouldn't even throw this in as an example since source material was already available.

[–] DeadMac1 (159) 3 years ago

Fine, if you feel that way.

I wonder what would you say to those who'd say Alien was a sloppy movie because it never explained about the dead space jockey, the cargo of eggs, rapid growth of the alien etc.

[–] TrentnQuarantino (8591) 3 years ago

Alien was a sloppy movie, but the audience judged that forgivable since it did have a certain logic to it ... a weird creepiness. I mean why would Ash malfunction so easily, and in that certain way instead of physical force he rolls up "magazines? ... they still have magazines in the 24th century, and shove them down Ripley's throat. It was incredibly pulpy and stupid, but it was well done and gained respect. I think Alien gained even more respect when Aliens came out and we so much better ... not perfect ... but a broader and more realistic portrayal of the Alien universe. Now, Prometheus failed to even try to plug into what the audience was expecting or wanted from an Alien/Aliens continuation. Instead of picking up in some interesting way from the original two movies, it branded itself as Alien, and then did something no one was interested in or cared about. And it got even worse with Covenant.

[–] DeadMac1 (159) 3 years ago

When Alien was released, even it was faced with negative reviews (Jaws in outerspace....if you recall).

Prometheus had a great production value, mind-blowing visuals and a unique plot of an adventure into the darkest corner of the universe. It dared to explore the possible Alien Gods theory, human hubris, Android mindsets etc. If Prometheus was made before 79, it would have been already a cult-classic and a great predecessor to Alien.

All other Alien sequels just played around Xenomoprhs and Xenomorphs only. Prometheus expanded the universe. It didn't dwell right into the creature feature, but as a first installment, it started fresh & simple. It showed Alien technology of bio-warfare which happened to be the origin of the Xenomoprh. And that the Xenomoprh was just one of the numerous outcomes. With Covenant, he brought us Backbuster & Neomorph.

Differentiation was required as the franchise got worn out playing out the same thing. And Scott very nicely prepared the new path whilst maintaining all other aspects of Alien such as Good & Evil Androids, Space jockeys, Mysteries and unanswered questions, story within a compact environment and cynical characters.

Both Prometheus & Covenant are truly 'Alien'....not by Xenos but by the traits.

Unfortunately, the sequel got cancelled. But one can imagine what a blast it could be if you make a movie after a strong foundation that Prometheus & Covenant established with endless new possibilities.

[–] TrentnQuarantino (8591) 3 years ago

>> When Alien was released, even it was faced with negative reviews (Jaws in outerspace....if you recall).

Jaws was a smash hit. I don't know how you call that a negative review. Negativity came from people who don't like that kind of movie, but for what it was, it stood out as the best.

[–] TrentnQuarantino (8591) 3 years ago

>> It dared to explore the possible Alien Gods theory, human hubris, Android mindsets etc.

Uh ... that is so pretentious. Dared to explore? No, philosophy, or textbooks explore this stuff. These movies reference it in passing and you think you've earned a PhD. Give me a break! ;-)

> Prometheus expanded the universe.

I wouldn't say that it did that at all ... did it show different people, different planet and a whole bunch of different stuff that made no sense ... yes. Again, "explore" is a pretentious word for that.

>> It showed Alien technology of bio-warfare which happened to be the origin of the Xenomoprh.

Well, I will tentatively grant you that it tried to do that, but really all it did was to confused the issue to get people talking, and then drop the whole thing. When Convenient picked it up, it was a again a kind of reboot, even though it had some connections to Prometheus, it was implied only by David and Shaw ... but so what? There was no plot, arc or connection there.

>> Unfortunately, the sequel got cancelled. But one can imagine what a blast it could be if you make a movie after a strong foundation that Prometheus & Covenant established with endless new possibilities.

;-) heh,heh,heh ... Yeah, they did imagine what a follow-on to that "strong foundation" would be ... and that's why they cancelled it.

Look, I am glad you liked the movie. At least someone did. Someone got something out of it. But from your description I still don't really understand why you liked it, you just did.

[–] maximmm (3076) 3 years ago

I still think Aliens is vastly superior to Alien. I liked alien until mid-film. When it went full horror, I can't say I enjoyed as much of it. I think 'Life' did a much better job, when it comes to combining horror/scifi, while focusing on only one creature. New revelations about the creatures kept coming until the very end, without ever going into the full horror mode.

[–] DeadMac1 (159) 3 years ago

Alien works great as a Horror and Aliens work great as Action. Both are great movies.

'Life' is an amazing movie! Very tight & nice script. Very well executed. It really was fresh if not original. Quite an underrated film.

[–] cyguration (3874) 2 years ago

Ugh, I have to reluctantly agree with you on part of your post.

I think Life did do a great job starting out as one thing and then ending as a eldritch-level cosmic horror film, which I absolutely did not see coming. Kevin (or was it Calvin?) just kept growing and evolving, and THAT was interesting... but the fact it was just an invincible being with no weaknesses just kind of made it... lame. The first thing I was wondering was how come it didn't absorb anything else while out in space and start its rapid growth acceleration? Why didn't other Kevin/Calvins do the same in that case?

At least with Alien/Aliens it made sense that they could only grow/expand with hosts, and they had to be transported places to infect/spread, so it made sense why humans would have to actually encounter them to "trigger" them, so to speak.

[–] Kendricks (2086) 3 years ago

Well said.

[–] TrentnQuarantino (8591) 3 years ago

I agree with you, but 2001 was lightly based on a novel. I'm assuming you know that novel was not 2001 either. For 2001 the novel was a novelization from the movie script put together by Arthur Clarke.

[–] Threadkiller (2958) 3 years ago

No it won't.

[–] tph890 (484) 3 years ago

I also enjoy this movie, but it is very flawed.
The pacing is odd.
Not enough character development.
A plot only cohesive to an end vision rather than realistic human behavior (means to an end).
But there are a lot of philosophical nuggets in there.
The score provides a wonderful atmosphere, and makes this one of the great ‘background noise’ movies out there, but also it doesn’t hurt to watch it, which is cool.
Not a fan of the CGI xenomorph, but that can be overlooked if one uses their imagination. Some shots of the xenomorph were pretty awesome, but I definitely prefer the practical version of the originals.
Basically it’s pretty good, but as a viewer you have to bring a lot of your own desire and knowledge to the table in order to enjoy it.
I give it a 6.5 out of 10.

[–] TrentnQuarantino (8591) 3 years ago

>> But there are a lot of philosophical nuggets in there.

If by nuggets you mean turds, I would agree, but I think you're tripping if you think there was anything but superficiality in either Prometheus or Convenant. They were exploitation movies purely made for cash that gave the finger to the audience the whole way through.

[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

The best you could hope for is that it becomes a guilty pleasure like Alien Resurrection or Alien vs Predator.

At least those movies didn’t pretend to be more than what they were, nor did they have a reputable director attached to increase expectations.

[–] maximmm (3076) 3 years ago

Just responding to the comment title.
You know... this film may indeed become a classic. You know how GW Bush was hated and he said history will judge him and then we got shittier and shittier US presidents, making him look good.
I suspect the same might happen here - if hollywood continues to pump out turds in the form of reboots/remakes/woke crap, this film will begin to seem like a masterpiece in comparison.

[–] cyguration (3874) 2 years ago

That's a really good point.

I used to hate the original AvP and that slightly better (and at the same time, worse) sequel, but Prometheus, Covenant and The Predator actually made me REALLY LIKE the two awful AvP films that came before them, and I now consider Alien 4: Resurrection a good film compared to Prometheus/Covenant, which I didn't think would be remotely possible.

So you're right... 10 more Alien/Predator films from now and we'll be talking about how much of a masterpiece Covenant is by comparison.