MovieChat Forums > Avatar: The Way of Water (2022) Discussion > Someone please explain to me the "immacu...

Someone please explain to me the "immaculate conception"


Is she some sort of Savior? God sent?

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Clearly she's a physical embodiment of eywa.

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So clear I had to ask.

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Could Eywa BE their God? It wouldn't be the first time a science-fiction property alluded to a deity of sorts being REAL because it actually IS real, like the Bajorans in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine who worship "gods" known as the Prophets who are actually REAL aliens.

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I don't know. When girlie began flexing her powers the sea people boggled, but they didn't fall down and worship her as a goddess. So I'd guess that was meant to imply that the local version of Jedi Powers are highly unusual on Pandora, but not completely unheard of, at least aren't considered to be proof of divinity.

She's probably an avatar of Eywa rather than a full embodiment, sent to deal with the invading humans as the planet faces a crisis. And that the film series might well end up as... you guessed it... AVATAR VS. AVATAR. Vs. Avatar.

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Nope, just another paycheck for Sigourney Weaver.

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I haven't yet seen the film, but from the thread I assume this person sprang whole or was born without sexual intercourse by parents. If that is correct, then I'm going to pick a nit. That is not Immaculate Conception. The Immaculate Conception is a Catholic belief and refers to Mary, not Jesus. To prepare for Jesus' conception, Mary was conceived without the stain of original sin. In Catholic belief, she would be one of only two people born without original sin; the other being Jesus.

Author of the Sodality Universe
The Road from Antioch
In the Markets of Tyre
Flight to Lystra
The Theater at Ephesus
The Council on Jerusalem (coming 2023)

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Spoilers...
Jake and Neytiri's adopted daughter, Kiri... Was born of Dr. Grace Augustine's Avatar. It is not revealed in film how the Avatar was impregnated. The father remains unknown. Grace died. The Avatar body still lives in suspension. The simplest explanation is that Grace had sex using her Avatar with another male avatar before the events where she died. There are numerous other Avatars that we caught only glimpses of in the first film that were never introduced or seen again, like those playing basketball outside when Jake first goes into his avatar, or those in the bunkhouse later that evening before lights out.

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SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

If Sigourney Jr. was born because Signourney was pregnant when she died... why is she several years younger than Jake's older children? Who were born well after the events of "Avatar"?

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She is not several years younger than Jake's older Children.

She is the same age as the middle child and only ONE year younger than the oldest.

Jake's oldest (Neteyam)is 15.
Jake's middle (Lo'ak) and Kiri are 14
Jake's youngest Tuktirey) is 9.
Spider was already born during the first film (though not shown) and is 16.

So assuming his oldest was conceived when he and Neytiri first mated (and Grace was still alive), and Grace's Avatar perhaps conceived right before she died... all we need to do is understand the 1 year discrepancy between Neteyam's birth and Kiri's.

And that's done with the simple fact that after Grace's human death, her avatar was kept in stasis. Which likely slowed gestation.


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Look, the only way a child that was conceived before the wedding can be the same age as a the wedded couple's second child, is if the wedded couple belonged to a species with a much shorter gestation period than humans!

But wait... refresh my memory... didn't Sigourney die and get buried in her Avatar form??? Which means she's have the same gestational period as Natiri or whatever her name is.

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There is no need to go so far as talking about immaculate conceptions at all.
What we know. vs speculation.


1) The Avatar is alive, but has no "driver" as Grace died in the first film.
2) The Avatar was pregnant and eventually gave birth to Kiri, who was adopted by Jake and Ney'tiri.
3) The Father is unknown.

Now just because the father is unknown does not mean there is no father. You don't have to speculate any further than apparently and obviously Grace did have sex with someone while using her avatar. Probably another avatar driver with a male avatar. Grace, Norm, and Jake were not the only avatars on Pandora. We saw many whom were never introduced and were never seen but for a scene or two as the film focused on Grace, Jake, and Norm. Recall when Jack had his first experience driving his avatar and he ran outside... he ran past several avatars playing basketball and there were other avatars at the bunkhouse as they bedded down for the night and unlinked from their avatars. And again you saw several avatars in the scene where the RDA humans were being kicked off planet. Any one of them could be the father.

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Yeah I disagree that there is a 'father' or that sex is implied.

She can control plants and animals the same way Eywa can, but in the form of a living being instead of a planetary entity.

I don't think they are going for an "I am your father" type reveal here. It's clearly going to be more mysterious than that.

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Great explanation. I can see how Cameron can exploit this in the next sequels. Also, in one scene it was hinted that something went on between Grace and Norm. I don't think that scene was just for a joke between the kids, but we'll see.

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Nothing went on between Grace and Norm, nor does anything hint at it. In fact Norm arrived on the same trip as Jake. He just went through the training for the program whereas Jake was just thrown in last minute without train due to the death of his brother.

You see Norm and Grace's first meeting the same time Jake meets her. Just Norm knew who she was from her reputation. Jake didn't.

Norm did have something going on with Trudy Chacon (Michelle Rodriguez), the Sampson Pilot. They were knocking boots at the remote lab site.

There is a deleted scene which shows Jake coming out of link and going into the habitat side of the lab and catching them sharing a bunk together.

It's a part of why Jake remarks about Norm's attitude has changed lately (which is left in the final film)





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Watch the big reveal of her father will be Quarritch in approx. Avatar 6, 203X. After Spider dies Quarritch, we and a whole bunch of others will find out Kiddy, Kirby, whatever is his daughter! Therefore she will ultimately save Pandora from any further human invasion FOR GOOD!
Quarritch will therefore ultimately see the light and will in the end destroy the human colony! Returning to Earth reporting to government that Pandora is not conquerable. Earth Population will change it's ways in role model living by the Na'vi.

There I predicted it in January 2023 if the fictional story-telling will continue to be this lame.
Is this the SAME James Cameron CREATING the genius groundbreaking unique flick Terminator 1 & 2?!!! OK Titanic was limited story-wise to Based on a True Event plus there were already multiple good movies produced to fully appreciate his just another version. In colour. With overblown focus Romeo DiCaprio and Juliet Winselt.

The way bigger mystery is who the heck could even be Spider's mother? There were no significant females in the early colonization days aka Avatar 1 - OF COURSE! Dr. Grace as unique biologist scientist expert is believable but the rest were of course Marines to primarily conquer. Only best soldiers to be selected on hard survival modus. Which women would volunteer to fight superior Aliens on Mars as Pioneers? Which women would get herself in the situation to be pregnant/give birth/raise a child in such a environment where you would be dead after 10 seconds when your breathing mask fails for numerous reasons. Just imagine our degenerated Teletubby brats!!! Doing nothing but dumb retarded shit for at very least 16 yrs. Which highly intellectual woman with a grande mission would want to look nearly each second after a unneccesary brat?
Each time that lil pisser Spider had a scene this was all I could think about. How unrealistic! Whom they wanna present as mother we never got introduced in Avatar 1? Dr. Grace would be just as Lame as an yet Unknown Woman. Lame Lame Lame!

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Maybe I am off but it seemed to me that it was essentially spelled out that Pandora was a living organism that the Navi interpret to be Eywa. Very different from what we humans think of as God.

This would be similar to our Living Planet Theory / Gaia Hypothesis taken to the next level

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It’s a blatant rip-off of “Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace” where Anakin Skywalker was born by immaculate conception.

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Again, this is NOT Immaculate Conception. Immaculate Conception has NOTHING to do with virgin births. See my post above.

Author of the Sodality Universe
The Road from Antioch
In the Markets of Tyre
Flight to Lystra
The Theater at Ephesus
The Council on Jerusalem (coming 2023)

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The bottom line is that: There are no consequences in this universe. If a character dies, it doesn't matter, you just bring them back. So, there are no stakes. Just reset things and do them over. When it comes to this character being discussed, Cameron just wants to bring back the characters he killed off in the previous movie. And he is just coming up with whatever reason he can to make that happen.

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