MovieChat Forums > Game of Thrones (2011) Discussion > Thoughts/Questions on S7E4

Thoughts/Questions on S7E4


For one of the shortest episodes of the show, this one packed one helluva punch!

1. Arya is home! Finally! Good girl.

2. Was Bran actually happy to see Arya? I could have sworn I saw the tiniest of smiles on his face, and he hugged her, and he gave her a Valyrian steel dagger. Although I have a feeling the dagger is for fighting White Walkers.

3. Did Meera love Bran? She was getting rather emotional with her goodbyes, even though Bran was having none of it. At least he did say "Thank you" and now we know part of why he's so dang distant.

4. Did Dany actually propose to Jon? Somehow I got that sense, with all the talking about fighting for him and the North listening to their king to accept a Southern queen. And then it looked like they were holding hands.

5. Why the f*** did Dany burn all the food and supplies?! She was just complaining about how they didn't have enough food, then she went and had Drogon burn it all to the ground. They could have easily salvaged some after winning the battle if she didn't target the wagons....

6. Who pushed Jaime out of the line of fire? I'm thinking Bronn, but it might have been Dickon. My dad thought it might have been Tyrion, but I doubt it. Anyway, I really hope he doesn't drown under the weight of all that armor.

reply

1. Yes, great scenes, especially her duel with Brienne. Does Sansa really want to be called "Lady Stark"? I hope that was a joke.

2. I think at this point the real question is -- Is Bran even Bran anymore?

3. I don't know if she had romantic feelings for him or it was just that they went through so much together.

4. There seemed to be a subtext there for sure. If Jon is who we have been led to believe he is (I'm still not 100% on that), then Jon actually has the better claim to the Iron Throne, so a marriage would solve that problem as well as the North issue.

5. You're right, it was a dumb move. She lacks an appreciation for the coming hardships of winter, apart from the Night King threat.

6. I think it was Super Bronn. I love Bronn but they went overboard in this episode.

reply

1. The duel was great. I'm honestly not sure whether the Lady Stark thing was serious or not. Maybe they joked about it back in Season 1 or something?

2. We already know the answer to that, kinda.

MEERA: “My brother died for you. Hodor and Summer died for you. I almost died for you. Bran—”
BRAN: “I’m not, really. Not anymore. I remember what it felt like to be Brandon Stark, but I remember so much else now.”
MEERA: “You died in that cave.”

So I think we can assume that although he is still partly Bran, he's seen so much from so many different points of view that he got lost in the fray. Hopefully he can find his way back to really being Bran, like how Arya found her way back from being no one.

4. I can see how a marriage would be strategic, but at the same time, I'm not quite sure how I feel about it.

5. I think she took Olenna's advice to heart: "Be a dragon."

6. "Super Bronn." 😂
Yeah, they did go a bit overboard with his plot armor this episode.

reply

Regarding the "Lady Stark" thing, it's likely that the people of the castle started calling her that without her asking. I have no idea if she likes the title or cringes with embarrassment whenever it's used, but one thing is certain...

She's not going to stop using it. She's been given some authority for the first time in her life and it's been a bit of a struggle, with the Northern Lords asking her to her face whether she's a Stark or a Lannister now and suchlike. She's going to do everything in her power to reinforce her Starkness, including letting herself be called "Lady Stark".

reply

Good point! They are calling her Lady Stark, not Lady Bolton or Lady Lannister.

reply


<< although he is still partly Bran, he's seen so much from so many different points of view that he got lost in the fray. >>

The truth is he's a useless, boring little welp who's always played by inexpressive actors. The clock is running DOWN on this show, and I want him OUT!

Look...you either stand with me, or with Bran(Muffin). You can't have both.
.

reply

Well, you do have a point there. He wasn't really that expressive to begin with, but he's much more emotionless now.

reply

HAHAHAHAHA!

reply

If they've made the character emotionless, they're playing to the actor's strengths.

reply

I don't think it's a matter of what she wants to be called, but the fact that she has inherited the title. Jon Snow isn't a Stark, and he's King in the North but not, as far as I know, the formal Lord of Winterfell. Bran has refused the title of lord. So it's passed to Sansa, the Lady of Winterfell. Don't forget this is a feudal world we're dealing with. The title of lord or lady isn't a matter of personal style, but a legal status.

reply

1) Good! Arya's only hope for redemption is her family.

2) I don't think Bran is capable of happiness right now.

3) I don't think Meera loved Bran, she's just realized that Bran isn't capable of real gratitude.

4) Just flirting, or maybe more. But nothing official.

5) Don't know, maybe the Dothraki didn't want to haul grain wagons around, they wanted more glamorous plunder, so she burned the grain rather than leave it. Pity the Dothraki weren't in time for the gold!

6) we all wonder that. My guess is dick or Bronn, but more likely Dickon. He was on a horse, and Bronn wasn't. Bronn wouldn't be able to snag a riderless horse that close to a dragon, they all panic in the presence of large predators.

reply

1) I agree. Especially Jon - he should be able to get her off the revenge train.

2) Maybe. But I'm going to stubbornly believe he was happy to see her, as happy as he can manage to be. Perhaps he was just relieved that she didn't go to King's Landing?

3-4) Possibly.

5) Lol. That could have been a factor.

6) Jaime still charged on his horse towards the dragon. And someone pointed out somewhere that right before the fateful charge Bronn saw a white horse and the image lingered for a moment, then the person that shoved Jaime to the lake was riding a white horse.

reply

Dickon was in full plate armor. Shoving Jaime into the water, and therefore going in after him, would have been suicide. I too had thought it might be Dickon, but on further reflection I'm certain it was Bronn.

reply

1. It was nice to Arya happy again. When she encountered Hot Pie in the last episode, she didn't show much emotion. I was beginning to worry about her mental health.

2. I also saw Bran smile a little. I guess it's hard for him to act normal after he saw what he saw.

4. There was definitely chemistry between Dany and Jon. I think she finds him intriguing, and later in the conversation with Davos he admitted that he's interested but added "we don't have time for this now"

5. Burning the food supply was a risky move, but dragging the food carts along would significantly slow down Dothraki horde. And they can always plunder what they need from the villages along the way.

6. I think that Bronn was the one who rescued Jaime. Dickon doesn't seem the type to do something that risky. And Tyrion is also not brave enough, plus he was standing too far away from the scene to get there in time.

We know that Bronn acts like he doesn't care most of the time, but he is more loyal than he'd like himself to be. He will probably explain away his action later with something like "I saved you because you owe me a castle and not because I care for you" but after everything Bronn and Jaime went through together, I think Bronn considers him a friend.

reply

1. I thought she did show a reasonable amount of emotion in her scenes this season.

2. Good! I was starting to worry that I was imagining things, since no one else commented on seeing the smile so far.

4. But if that's the only way to get her support, would Jon be willing (maybe happy?) to marry her?

5. If they do plunder, then that'd only bring down Danny's public image even more.

6. I'm also leaning towards it being Bronn. If so, hopefully he manages to fish out Jaime before the armor drowns him. I could definitely see Bronn making that sort of excuse, and he does seem to care about the Lannister brothers in his own way.

reply

5. Dothraki will be Dothraki. If they are in Westeros, there's plundering to be expected. If Dany didn't want them to tarnish her public image, maybe she shouldn't have brought them from Essos. I can't imagine Dothraki will suddenly change and become gentlemen warriors.

reply

True, but I don't think Dany wants them plundering. We shall see.

reply

I replayed it a few times but couldn't tell what Bran said to Littlefinger at the end of their conversation. I think the first word was "Chaos." Does anybody know?

reply

"Chaos is a ladder." Aka what Littlefinger said to Varys in one of the earlier seasons.

reply

Thank you!

reply

Exactly. "Chaos is a ladder" means...I see everything.. I know who you are and what you hace done"

reply

I was wondering if Randyll and/or Dickon were killed.

reply

It didn't show. I think we'll have to wait for the next episode to find out.

reply

1. It's great to see Arya back home. And a little bit weird. Also, with all the time Sansa spends on that damn balcony, she sure picked a moment to be inside! And she doesn't look too pleased with how her sister's grown up to be. The duel with Brianne was pretty great as well. Though, I didn't get the feeling Arya wanted to practice, but more to maybe show off a little bit. Or show Brianne that she didn't need her protection after all. There was something confrontational in the way she aproached the whole thing (at least it seemed that way to me).

2. I think Bran still cares for his family, but he can't really express it in a more normal way. So a dagger is the best he can do. And I have the same feeling about him giving it to Arya to fight WW.

3. I've always had the feeling Meera might have... feelings towards Bran. But she might have been emotional just because they've been through so much and he seemed so distant.

4. I though she was proposing to him as well. And we all know what Jon likes to do in caves! But, yeah, it might be a good way to solidify that alliance, and he wouldn't need to bend the knee then, right? Also, it might insure the two Targaryens rule the realm, if/when the truth about Jon comes out.

5. I have no idea why she burned the grain. To starve her enemies? Can you have precision targeting with a dragon? But what she did to the Lannister/Whoever-the-other-army-belonged-to men was just horrific! I know dragons are cool and all, but I was sad for those people. What a terrible way to die.

6. I think it might be Bronn, he was very close, no? I doubt it was Tyrion, he's just to small.

reply

1. Lol, yeah. Sansa does spend quite a lot of time on that balcony! And I think Arya did enjoy the duel; she didn't seem too confrontational to me, more excited to have someone skilled to spar with.

2. I'm hoping he did still care.

4. Haha. But I think he would technically still need to bend the knee, even if not in the traditional way.

5. Most ways to die are terrible. War is a messy, awful thing. And I think she figured out the whole precision targeting thing somehow.

6. I'm 98% sure it was Bronn now.

reply

1. Maybe I read her "attitude" wrong. As you said, she might have just been excited to have a real pro to spar with. Speaking of reunions (were we?) I would love to see Brianne (and Arya too) and The Hound meet again! I mean, he was heading North with the Man-who-get's-resurrected-a-whole-bunch and his Merry Men, right?

4. He'll be bending something, that's for sure LOL. But, yeah, I don't think Dany is dropping that one, and Jon is exasperated by this nonsense as it is.

5. You're right, she did have pretty good aim. As for the horribleness of war, I won't repeat myself, I wrote my thoughts on that one below to Atarimaster.

reply

1. Yes, I hope so, too!

4. 😂

reply

But what she did to the Lannister/Whoever-the-other-army-belonged-to men was just horrific! I know dragons are cool and all, but I was sad for those people. What a terrible way to die.


Well, to be honest, I don’t quite get that »oh those poor soldiers« thing that already was talked about in other threads.

I mean, it WAS horrible.
But then again, we had wars and battles since the beginning of the show. Some of them off-screen, some of them we saw. I don’t picture being cut and left to bleed to death on the battlefield a cozy death.

So again, I think it was a terrible sight, too.
But I don’t get why I should feel any more sorry for the Lannister soldiers than for any other soldier that has died during the run of the show. Or, for that matter, the innocent bystanders in the streets of King's Landing that were killed when the sept blew up. Has anyone ever mentioned them?

reply

I don't know if anyone has mentioned them. This season is the first time I'm joining in the discussions, so I can't speak to what was discussed in the prior ones.

I feel sorry for the soldiers in all those battles. I don't remember if we saw the "civilians" when the Sept was blown up, but that would be terrible as well.

Now, for this particular battle. I just can't imagine what it is like to be on fire _and_ be stuck in that metal armor. It would be like you're being baked alive. Even if you "stop, drop and roll" that wouldn't help much. The metal is still hot, it would still burn you. Can you imagine that pain? Also, some of what was shows was clearly meant to communicate just the amount of unspeakable damage a dragon can do and the horror of it. Especially that moment when Jaime was looking around and seeing his fellowmen literally turn into ashes.

The only thing _I_ can compare it to is the battle at Blackwater, when they used the Wildfire. And the Sept blowing up maybe, but as far as I can remember all we saw was the explosion.

Also, I think all of them expect to have a honorable death, fighting another man with a sward. I think a dragon eliminates that from the equation. You're not a soldier carrying out his duties to the best of your ability anymore, you're a helpless victim, with nothing to do, but run and try to save yourself. (I know you can still run in a regular battle, but I think it's somewhat different)

Anyway, I'm being long-winded, as usual. I hope you understand why _I_ think it was so horrific and I understand your points as well. Anyone dying on a battlefield is horrific. Especially for these pointless tiffs over who'll sit on an uncomfortable chair (in my view).

reply

1. Whoo hooo! Some of us have been waiting for this for ages, although the little girl that was Arya and who wanted to go home to be with her family is much older now!

2. Bran knows Arya will have the most benefit from the dagger, and I think it's a very sweet tie-in to making use of the very dagger that was used to try to end Bran's life.

3. Love out of friendship, absolutely, but that's as far as it would ever go I felt.

4. All I got from that was bend the knee and I will help you, and then they walk out side by side, I don't think they were holding hands--that comes later. :)

5. I think Dany's goal is to make sure that King's Landing starves once their reserves run out, along with Cersei and her compatriots, and then Dany can sweep in with ease. That said, the gold went safely through the gates of King's Landing and Cersei should now have it.

6. I thought it was Bronn--since he was Mr. I-can-do-just-about-Anything during that fight, running around, arming Giant Crossbows, actually hitting a dragon, etc, and I noticed he took a glance at a horse the last time we saw him, so maybe he took that horse out to Jaime, jumped off and pushed him out of the line of fire.

I found it an odd scene. Classic Game of Thrones would have killed off Jaime immediately, but here it's a last second movie-cliche rescue by pushing someone out of the way. That's easier said than done in reality, and GoT strayed a bit here.

reply

I have a theory on Bran. I think that becoming the three-eyed raven means you HAVE to lose your personality. Because if you gain that much power and you still have attachments and biases, you're just a person with way, way too much power. I think becoming the three-eyed raven means you have to lose your personality and become just an instrument to serve humanity as a whole. I don't think a person could keep their personality anyway while being able to see everything from all people's points of view.

reply

Agreed. Its a good mirroring of Max von Sydow's 3-Eyed Raven. He was fairly stoic and impersonal. He didn't show any emotion until he knew he was going to die.

reply

Hmm... Maybe. I'm still hoping there's some of the real Bran left.

reply