I know the Cypher question of "how did he meet the agents" goes way back probably since the time the movie came out.
But did we ever get a retroactive explanation? Or is this hole still wide-open?
He figured out a way to hack into The Matrix without anyone knowing and went in himself and was able to communicate with them.
shareRemember the scene before he offers Neo a drink, Neo spooks him and he immediately turns his monitors off. He was clearly up to no good, most likely communicating with the agents somehow.
shareBut the issue is that its established that there needs to be an operator in order to get somebody plugged in and out. There is exactly zero evidence that Tank Dozer or anyone else would be in on it, especially considering the betrayal to literally everyone else possible.
shareIn fact, Tank and Dozer couldn't get anything out of betraying the others since they can't jack into the Matrix at all. Cypher is getting a life of luxury and blissful ignorance. The Zion-born brothers would be left alone in the real world...
shareI'm not sure thats a plothole.... we dont know how much the members of the crew spy and snitch on each other
shareAgree, that's not a plothole, just something that doesn't need to be laid out in detail. Too much exposition drags down a movie, you know?
So maybe when everyone was asleep he'd get up and use the Matrix to visit virtual whorehouses, and had a few too many virtual scotches and told one of the virtual girls all about it. I don't know, and only one person cares.
That's not my issue. The issue is that its explicitly established that Tank Dozer or somebody else needed to be an operator for Cypher. There is absolutely no evidence that it even could've been anyone else, as the betrayal is to everyone. If you're going to point to X character and say its possible they were the operator, you'd also have to justify why they'd be willing to do so at their own peril. It's a hole that has no reasonable explanation.
shareObviously you remember more about the imaginery technical stuff than I do, so don't ask me to comment on the details.
But I will say that if Cypher had figured out a way to solo into the Matrix, and was using his access to betray his colleagues and visit virtual whorehpuses, he wouldn't tell anyone, would he.
I never actually asked you to comment on any details, or comment at all for that matter lol. If you don't know, you don't know, and that's okay. If all you have is a handwavy "well he just did, so there" than I guess that doesn't really explain much, does it?
shareIn addition to the "handwavey so there", just let me add that too much exposition slows down a film. So it's a rule of filmmaking that some things have to be left unexplained.
And seeing as everything that *was* explained is pretty silly, I'm happier with the "so there" than more exposition.
But that's not even what exposition is. It's not like somebody would be taking time to set up the universe as is. The explanation to Neo of the Matrix was exposition. The explanation of what the agents were is exposition. But if you're going to cheat something pivotal and important into the plot that contradicts what the story has already set up, that absolutely needs an explantion. Otherwise, its just a plot hole.
Having a reasonable explanation for your cheat is not exposition. It could've been as simple as a familiar look and nod to Dozer or whoever and it would've been covered.
I never thought about it until now. After a few seconds of thinking:
The necessity of a human operator is probably mostly a safety issue, like a weightlifter having a spotter. Cypher probably wrote his own crack/app that causes the system to sever his connection with the matrix automatically on a timer, or maybe he can trigger it with his cell phone. But it's risky. What if the system on the ship glitched and rebooted, or there was a power outage? A human operator would have to intervene to reestablish his connection and pull him out.
It's established somebody would've had to be an operator. And it's not like they just plug and leave... I say it's also established that the operator is always posted and alert for overwatch, agent monitoring and escape needs.
You'd have to reasonably say that Tank or Dozer would've helped Cypher meet with Agents at a restaurant but also been caught off guard by his betrayal.
Michigander and Dancinginthedark already pointed out that Cypher wrote a program to help him, and D-in-the-D even indicated the scene where he's working on his shady deals and/or program.
While most people believe he invented a method of getting himself into and out of the Matrix, I think he did something a good deal easier than that. I think that his program didn't allow him to be his own operator (all but impossible), rather, I think his code hacked the Nebuchadnezzar's computers, infecting it with a virus. What did the virus do? It "cloaked" Cypher's activities.
It'd be a lot easier for him to make it so the 'Nezzar's monitors only ever told Tank, Dozer, and anybody else glancing at the screens, that Cypher was in a room elsewhere, or disguising Agent Smith in the code so he didn't appear to be there.
Remember, at the beginning of the movie, Cypher and Trinity are inside the Matrix, monitoring Neo. The Zion Underground run patrols, hacks, and other anarchic attacks on the regular.
So, Cypher writes himself some "stealth code," contacts the machines, sets up a meeting time (based on his shifts causing mayhem), and uses the code to "cloak" both the meeting and his initial contacting of the machines.
That makes a lot more sense. I could buy he found a way to hide what he was doing while plugged in, rather than believing he'd invented a way to plug himself in. That's just too much of a stretch.
Thanks for the explanation
That's the way I figure it, anyway. I don't know what the Wachowskis think. And, on that note, I do agree that some explanation or clearer hint should have been included in the film itself.
shareYeah, all that was needed was a one line comment when he was already exposing his actions to Trinity, like "You all thought you were so clever, but I managed to hide myself in the code so easily" or similar.
shareYeah, it wouldn't have taken much. They actually could have even built it into the plot if Tank was de-worming the system while they were raiding the federal building. It wouldn't be a constant problem, but maybe Tank couldn't see Agents coming like he used to, or when he tries to load the hardline for Trinity it stalls (which would also give her more of a reason to start telling Neo what the Oracle told her).
Of course, it could/should have been simpler. As you suggest, just a line or two to indicate that Cypher had some kind of "cloaking" program.
I don't think it takes that much to hide, Tank could see him only when he was paying attention to the area he was in, there probably wasn't a tracking program. That is why Cypher had to tell Tank there was a car accident, and I think Tank could find him only through his phone connection.
Most of the missions are not critical, Tank would not be following them and watching their every moves, more of "when your shift is over, or something came up, give me a call" or something like that.
Well the "real world" is actually another part of Matrix, soooo
shareEven if true, Cypher clearly doesn't know that.
Sooooooo...
So what are you asking? How did he do something in the real world when it can easily be done in the Matrix, which he was in.
shareI think the question is pretty clear. Your "still in the Matrix" factor doesn't change the fact that the person in question is still under the complete impression he isn't.
In order for it to be "easily done" or for that to even matter, he and everyone involved needs to be fully aware of the given situation.... which they're all ignorant to, including the agents
[deleted]
I want to know how he was able to communicate without the agents trying to kill him instantly. Even if he was able to go into and out of the Matrix himself wouldn't the agents still try to kill him like everyone else? They automatically detect them as a threat.
shareGreat point.
shareDoesn't it seem smarter to have a mole inside the resistance movement? Maybe they approached him first, instead of the other way around?
shareIt seems unlikely the agents approach resistance. It would be automatically "showing their cards" while waiting and searching for somebody to bite.
"Hey, would you consider betraying your ship and all of mankind? Please LMK. And also, don't say anything to anyone."
Not even to interrogate him, like they interrogated Neo?
shareThey interrogated Neo before Neo knew what was going on. Completely different scenerio.
They're not going to threaten a sleeping human into giving them the codes to Zion.
I don't see the problem here. Who cares if he goes back and spills the beans? At least they put an appealing offer on the table. Based on Cypher's behavior during his time off in the Matrix, they might've believed he was open to it.
shareWell now the resistance would know they're actively looking for a traitor, not just trying to stomp them out.
That defeats the whole purpose of a stealth set up plan.
The only way this really makes any sense is if a human comes to them. The only way it works is for the humans to never suspect they're about to be betrayed on a mission.
"Well now the resistance would know they're actively looking for a traitor, not just trying to stomp them out."
Why would that be so surprising??? That's what happens in most wars.
"That defeats the whole purpose of a stealth set up plan."
Anything would come with a risk, including accepting the offer of a resistance fighter to be an informant. He could very well be bluffing.
"The only way this really makes any sense is if a human comes to them."
Maybe that is what happened, who knows. I saw nothing in the movie that suggests that they would immediately shoot up any of the resistance fighters if approached carefully. Maybe he sent an email to their headquarters first.
We see him have dinner with Agent Smith in The Matrix and no one has a clue. It seemed to me they're allowed some time without being monitered inside the Matrix, a world they grew up in and might miss sometimes.
share