Worst of the franchise - Mission: Impossible (1996) Discussion

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

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[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 6 years ago

Yes and I think it gets a bad rap. I know the wirework is absurd and there are assorted moments of heavy-handed directing but Cruise is finally matured into the role and the script/plot is good. For all of its flaws, I think it is Woo's best American film. Face Off and Broken Arrow were cringe fests IMO. Having been a big fan of his Hong Kong action films (in which one can see thugs somersaulting out of moving cars while firing machine guns) I was not overly blistered by the antics in MI2. I think it is a solid action film that does not fit in the M:I world tone.
Woo is a good director who has some bad ideas. De Palma is a bad director who has some good ideas.
I'm going to rewatch 2 again and see if it suffers from memory rust like 1 did. Part one did not fair well at all in a rewatch.

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[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

Most people, including me, would disagree with you. As you said, it doesn't fit the M:I world tone, and that's why many people consider mission impossible 2 the worst of the franchise. I know it's my least favorite. It's the only one I've watched so far that I don't like. The first mission impossible is my favorite. To me it seemed to be the one with the most plot twists, surprises, creative storytelling, and keeping the viewer in wonder. (other people would probably disagree with me.) Perhaps not the best action sequences as the over movies in the franchise, but still very impressive, especially for it's time. Yes, the first movie is very confusing, as many people complain about, but it helps keep the viewers wondering and at the edge of their seat. I think it's better for us to try and figure out what is going on instead of the characters straight up telling us like we're 5 year olds.

(same person, this is my other account)

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[–] shan803 (16) 6 years ago

This is always the best in the series. All the sequels were more of a action movie but never became a spy thriller like this. What a great plot it has to start with a mission where entire team is gone and the mission itself is a mole hunt. Then Ethan on run meets the Max, makes a deal to deliver the list in exchange of Job ( the real mole). Then you get the Heist which I feels is the first in modern films. You always get a old noir spy film feel when the Prague scenes come with locations, that bridge. Brian de Palma was great in directing it with his trademark dutch angles. This is always the best film in the series which other films never got it.

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[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 6 years ago

It is loaded with head-shaker moments. Like in the end when Voight is waiting in the closet right next to Cruise who is in a mask. When Voight comes out of hiding it is laughable. Then he up and shoots his wife. Hysterical. de Palma was always overrated.

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[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

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[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 6 years ago

His wife had just demonstrated her loyalty. If Voight was going to shoot her that was the most random time to do it. Then, after killing his wife for no apparent reason, he simple knocks out Cruise and does not kill him. I luaghed quite a bit during that whole scene. Rewatch it and remember that Voight is hiding in that closet the whole time.
The film is a comedy of directorial foolishness. Remember the operative at the beginning that sees the stabbing at the gate and decides to walk right up flush with the gate to investigate? LOL!! It was the only way the director could get her into stabbing range.

So so so bad. MI2 might have individual moments that rank as worst in the franchise but minus those few seconds of guilt, it is a better made film than MI1. The iconic heist scene makes people forget how sloppy MI1 was.

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[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

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[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 3 years ago

OK, I rewatched M:I2. It is worse than I remembered. Woo's directing is loaded with reaction zooms and slo-mo like he thinks he is directing a Spanish tv novela. The directing is not bad throughout though. Up until the very very bad ending, the movie has some well done moments. It is arguably the worst of the franchise. However, I still like it a tad more than 1.

After a rewatch of 2, my ranking changes sliiightly.

4>5>6>3>>>2=1

1 and 2 equally bad. Each with it's small measure of quality. Again, if 1 was only the 20 minute long heist, I might even have put it above 3.

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[–] Cognoscente (2463) 3 years ago

The Spanish TV novella style of Woo's sequel fits in with the Spanish setting and the Spanish music that we can hear before and after the movie takes us to Spain.

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[–] Pete314 (2454) 3 years ago

OMG, how artsy!
IMHO all these slow motion sequences are as ridiculous as they are in Broken Arrow as well.
But I am sure some teenies or stoners or stoned teenies think it's cool...

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[–] Cognoscente (2463) 3 years ago

I don't think it's artsy but it is consistent all things considered, but then you have to wonder why they didn't get some Spanish singers on the soundtrack like Ricky Martin instead of Limp Bizkit or Enrique Iglesias instead of Metallica.

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[–] Pete314 (2454) 3 years ago

Using Spanish background music at a Spanish location is somehow logical, no need for compliments to the director. Japanese music might have sound strange there...

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[–] Cognoscente (2463) 3 years ago

More like compliments to the people whose job it was to put together the soundtrack.

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[–] Pete314 (2454) 3 years ago

👌

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[–] BillySlater (4099) 6 years ago

Ive rewatched MI1 many times, I actually think it has gotten better with age. I remember not thinking that much of it when I saw it in the theaters. Its more of a spy film than the rest which I appreciate more, its more serious in tone too which sets it apart from the others as well especially after Simon Pegg joined the series. The 2nd film is the absolute worst imo by a fair margin.

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[–] PrimeMinisterX (8295) 3 years ago

I agree that the first film is the only one that really retains the spy elements. The rest are trying too hard to copy the James Bond formula to really be thought of as espionage movies.

But when I rewatched this film a few years ago, I was disappointed with it. I couldn't put my finger on why exactly, but it didn't live up to my memory of it. I thought it was lethargic and lacked excitement.

Regarding the second film, however, while I don't think it's a great movie, my opinion of that one actually improved a bit on the rewatch. It is a bit of a mess plot-wise, but it does have some very cool action. The weirdest thing is that it just does not at all feel like it fits into this franchise when placed next to every other film in the series.

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[–] Heisenberg (6323) 3 years ago

It is lethagic, lacks excitement and most of the plot points are retarded.
The mole hunt is stupid.
Accusing Ethan is even more stupid.
His defense (going rogue) even more.
Then the girl magically appears, and he's fine with it.
Then he comes up with a super convoluted and risky plan to get to Jobe.
Then Voight...

This whole frenchise is crap. It found its reason d'etre in over the top, ludicrous action scenes.

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[–] PrimeMinisterX (8295) 3 years ago

I'd say the franchise overall has been "pretty good." Fallout is a very good action movie.

It's not a great series but I'll keep watching them.

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[–] Heisenberg (6323) 3 years ago

I think the only one that could pass as a good action movie is GP, where the characters have some team dynamics and the action is tolerably absurd.
The rest of the series looks ok because nowadays the competition is fast n furious.
Fallout was complete shit. Just that whole cartoonish final sequence where in 20 minutes he performs stunts worthy of 5 hours takes it down to a b movie.

But I agree, I keep watching it hoping it could get back to GP level.

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[–] samoanjoes (50988) 4 years ago

How can anyone think this is worse than part 2? This is actually an underrated movie.

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[–] samoanjoes (50988) 3 years ago

I like you, Anubis. But I'm afraid I'm going to have to show you out the door.

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[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 3 years ago

Rewatch this mess of a movie. Then join me for coffee on the other side of that door.

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[–] samoanjoes (50988) 3 years ago

I've seen it many times.

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[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 3 years ago

Then I'm afraid I cannot let you out of the door.

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[–] Ace_Spade (9356) 3 years ago

I've only seen up to number three, but this was far-and-away the best of that lot.

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[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 3 years ago

I thought 3 was OK. Not great but good enough. 4 and 5 are the best, hands down. 6 is decent.

4>5>6>3>>>2>>1

If part 1 was edited down to the 20 minutes of the big heist then I'd rank them as follows:

4>5>1>6>3>>>2

... but it is not. It is weighed down with inattentive playground directing, bad writing, and even some bad acting at times.

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[–] Ace_Spade (9356) 3 years ago

Of the three I've seen, one was the only film that put the emphasis on spycraft and had that good spy-thriller feel. The rest were action movies with a little espionage for dressing.

And I thought the writing, directing, and performances were, for the most part, good.

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[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 3 years ago

I can agree with your point about the spycraft. I like that stuff too. I feel that the majority, if not all, of the spycraft happens within that golden 20* minutes I speak of. This franchise does NOT replace the Bond films.
One thing is for sure: You are not alone in your opinion about this film. I challenge a few highly praised movies with some regularity so perhaps it is my contrarian nature. May I ask you how long it has been since you saw MI1? I ranked it highly after a single watch in the theater. I was shocked upon a 2nd viewing. But I'd still watch it over 30% of the action films out there. There's bad and then there's really bad.

*approximation. I haven't timed it

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[–] Ace_Spade (9356) 3 years ago

No, M:I isn't really close to Bond, and can't replace it. But I'm not sure anything can. Bond's franchise is extremely unique. It's not really "classic spy thriller" either, although those elements are in the recipe. From Russia with Love is close, as is Dr. No, but with Goldfinger, Bond really starts to branch into its own, unique territory (although, that uniqueness was apparent from the word "Go" - it's already in sight in Dr. No). The best of the "spycraft" movies are, for my money, stuff like The Third Man or The Spy Who Came In From the Cold.

M:I 1 has this a bit more, but it's blended in with action stuff, too. It has its own vibe, which probably came from De Palma meshing or clashing with the show's own idiom.

Nothing wrong with a contrary opinion or challenging the opinions of others. That's a big part of the movie message board fun, isn't it? I'm grateful to be able to talk to people, like yourself, who disagree with me, and like yourself, can do so in a civil and engaging manner.

It's been a few years now since I've seen it, but fairly recently. I have a DVD and I bust it out every so often. I was actually thinking of re-watching it recently...

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[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 3 years ago

My problem seems to boil down to a severe distaste for De Palma. His style of ignoring realistic details borders on campy, IMO.

You say that you have only watched three of them. You should give 4, 5, and 6 a try.

Your spy movie choices are excellent. I know we have seen each other running with the bulls in the many Bond film boards. (side note: The TV series Burn Notice has a very good 1st season. Imagine Magnum PI but starring a burned spy with episodes loaded with spycraft)

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[–] Ace_Spade (9356) 3 years ago

I'll put Burn Notice on my list, thanks for the recommendation.

Yeah, I've heard 4, 5, and 6 are good, too. I'm not avoiding them, there's just so much stuff to watch.

Bond is amazing and a wonderful spy series.

In literature I'm a big fan of Graham Greene, who did a lot of spy stuff. Our Man in Havana is as funny as it is thrilling, and it contains one of the best thriller novel side-kick characters since Effie in The Maltese Falcon.

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[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 3 years ago

Added "Our Man in Havana" to my list.

6 is OK. I think 4 and 5 are the stars of the franchise.

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[–] thingmakersback (1184) 3 years ago

I think it's the only really good one. Two is very bad and all the rest are just entertaining stunt/FX fests--fine to watch but totally unmemorable.

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[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 3 years ago

The heist/hanging scene was iconic. A great scene in a very good 20 minutes of the movie. The rest is rubbish. The vast majority of the movie watching populace are enchanted by that one scene and they forgive (or more likely forget) the rest of the movie. For all the problems of part 2, it isn't as cringe-worthy as part 1. The only truly good MI are 3 through 6.

I used to rank MI:1 fairly high. Then I watched it again in recent years. I actually laughed out loud at many many parts for how poorly done they were. This triggered a reassessment of de Palma films. Thought I liked him. Turns out I don't.

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[–] TheArgentinian (6447) 3 years ago

If by worse you mean best, yeah. You're right.
The second one is the worst. Like a dumb Fast and Furious movie.

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[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 3 years ago

Please read the entire thread. Remember: You are anonymous. You can be honest.

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[–] TheArgentinian (6447) 3 years ago

Wtf are you talking about?!

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[–] AbercrombieJolen (70) 3 years ago

Everyone has their opinion, but this one and Ghost Protocol were my favorite in the series, and the most memorable. The first one gave off a real spy/espionage vibe, then pretty much all the sequels felt more or less felt like generic action flicks. MI2 was a completely different film then this. A typical over the top John Woo action fest. The 3rd film was just boring. Tom Cruise has the most ridiculous running scene ever. He looks like a freaking gazelle. Rogue Nation and fallout were a decent spy/action mix. I like how Ethan Hunt in this movie still seemed like a regular guy. He was a covert operative, and a very good one, but it felt grounded. As the sequels progress he goes from talented spy to some kind of legendary superhero

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[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 3 years ago

"he goes from talented spy to some kind of legendary superhero"
I agree with this complaint.

I also agree that 2 was over the top but I like it if I don't think of it as part of the franchise. Woo's American stuff ain't so good. Subtract the wire work scene from it and it isn't half bad.

I think Cruise looks great running. He has a good run. Many actors do not.

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