Wasn't Red too great of a guy? - The Shawshank Redemption (1994) Discussion

[–] Redsfan001 (6017) 4 years ago

How old are you?

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[–] Heisenberg (6367) 4 years ago

Older than you. Fuck's that got to do with anything anyway?

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[–] Redsfan001 (6017) 4 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Heisenberg (6367) 4 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Redsfan001 (6017) 4 years ago

Your Full Metal Jacket post a few months ago strongly suggest that you watched it for the first time.

No straight middle age man is going to wait 33 years to see that movie.

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[–] Heisenberg (6367) 4 years ago

Only I've seen it when it was brand new on VHS you dipshit, if you know what that is.

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

Your replies indicate a lack of maturity so I can only conclude you are an angry young man.

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[–] Redsfan001 (6017) 4 years ago

I doubt that. Most middle-aged men know age mellows a man. Your original question implies that you don't know this fact.

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

I never took it to be that he was greater than anyone else. He had a lot of time to reflect on his crime (as was evidenced by his last parole board speech) and I always thought that Red availed himself of what he could to improve his education.

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[–] LiquidOcelot (2300) 4 years ago

I always thought that too. But the movie wouldn't have worked if Red was a scoundrel.

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[–] strntz (10899) 4 years ago

Red was in prison for murder, a murder he committed as a teenager. The circumstances were never discussed nor did Red ever make excuses for it. One of my best friends is a convicted murderer. I met him after he was released when we were on the same baseball team. I don't know if he has the quiet wisdom of Red, but he's a great guy. He also never made any excuses for what he did but he quit drinking and drugs in prison (both freely attainable) and hasn't touched anything since.

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[–] ColumboKate (5327) 4 years ago

Wow, I bet there's been some interesting conversations.

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[–] strntz (10899) 4 years ago

He taught me a lot about life, that's for sure.

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[–] Heisenberg (6367) 4 years ago

Glad your frieend is a great guy.
I'm sure there are lots of nice convicts.
But the movie never makes a point of how Red was so great, he just is.
It's not a big deal but I think it makes it less realistic n more disney.

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[–] strntz (10899) 4 years ago

Brooks was also a great guy right up until he cracked when told of his release. All the guys in Red's clique seemed like the kind of guys you'd want to hang around with. Is that unrealistic? Maybe; my buddy is honestly the only ex-con I know.

Maybe someone here who had done some time in a maximum security lockup can comment.

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[–] AP (5259) 4 years ago

Considering Red was arrested in the 1930's and he's a black man, it's possible the crime he committed wasn't as serious as his punishment. He was likely never all that bad of a person to begin with. I don't recall if they ever said he killed anyone. That's a good place to start.

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[–] Heisenberg (6367) 4 years ago

That could have been a valid point, but he does say he killed somebody.
If I'm not mistaken in the novel he killed his wife. That is an awful crime.

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[–] AP (5259) 4 years ago

I never read the book. Since the movie version had him arrested as a teen, it seems they went with a different story as teens don't often get married. His murder could be a manslaughter charge or something similar.

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[–] degree7 (821) 4 years ago

It was clearly explained in the movie that when Red committed his crime he was a dumb kid who made a terrible mistake, and being in prison he learned to mature and realize how he had wasted many years of his life.

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[–] Heisenberg (6367) 4 years ago

Yes, everybody got that part.
What I'm arguing is that it's a bit too rose tinted to have a homicidal black kid in prison in the fifties become Ghandi instead of a son of a bitch.
At least he could have had some weak trait.

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[–] degree7 (821) 4 years ago

Why does being a black kid in prison mean he has to be a “sonofabitch”? That’s just a tinge racist. Also that’s how the character was in the book, so I don’t see your point. How exactly is he “Ghandi”? He’s just a normal guy who’s fed up with being stuck behind four walls. Pretty relatable.

Also having committed murder is considered a “weak trait,” so your whole point is pretty contradictory. As well as smuggling in items into the prison can be considered being a “scoundrel,” and also when Andy first shows up Red is obviously a pretty jaded guy who’s not all that enthusiastic about Andy’s free spirit, and sees him more as an amusement before they become friends. Seriously, it’s like you didn’t even watch the movie.

Shawshank is basically an updated version of a Frank Capra flick, so of course the good characters are going to be pretty ‘aw shucks golly gee’ wholesome.

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[–] Heisenberg (6367) 4 years ago

His smugling is always seen as a plus, never as a negative trait.
He has no negative trait, other than betting against Andy the first time he sees him, that was superficial.
Speaking of which, Red is black, can I say that openly or is that offfensive? And of course blacks were never discriminated against in the US, so it's racist to expect a black kid who spend his life in prison to turn for the worse, or at least have some negative traits. I guess you are right...

Anyway, ok the good guys are wholesome. I consider that a defect in the writing for a drama set in a prison, I would have appreciated 3 dimentional characters that hinted a bit more at the real harshness of their life. I love the great escape for instance, but it feels like a summer camp, not a nazi prison. I don't consider that a merit.

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[–] degree7 (821) 4 years ago

The movie is purposefully stylized, it’s meant to be a fable-esque take. Maybe melodramas aren’t your thing.

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[–] Heisenberg (6367) 4 years ago

No, I like it allright, it's great on every count.
I just think it could use a little less sugar, and Red is a great place to do that, being the main character could have used something more to contrast the purity of the other main.

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[–] degree7 (821) 4 years ago

I suppose that’s a reasonable criticism, but honestly I think they were trying to stick close to the book and it’s just the way Red is written. Maybe being played by Morgan Freeman makes him appear saintly.

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[–] uridon2 (184) 4 years ago

he's had a lot of time to think and change as a person. being in prison and in the hierarchy that existed wisened him up out of being the dumb kid who killed a man. It's not totally realistic but it's plausible enough in the film.

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[–] Heisenberg (6367) 4 years ago

Yes but never once he blames the system, or bad luck, or just hates himself. Nope, he's in peace with the world.

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[–] uridon2 (184) 4 years ago

He's jaded and has given up, just like the old man in the library. That's the whole point of the movie.
Get a clue already you shit head.

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[–] Heisenberg (6367) 4 years ago

What a puny troll....

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[–] uridon2 (184) 4 years ago

That's u bitch

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[–] CaptainCrozier (599) 4 years ago

I have to agree with the OP. I get that Frank Darabont, and perhaps Stephen King, wanted to humanize convicted lifers instead of depicting them as monsters but in so doing they went to the other extreme. As one film critic said of this movie when it came out, Red and his friends seem about as harmless as Snow White's Seven Dwarfs. It's one thing for him to regret his actions as revealed in his speech to the parole board near the end but as others have said there is no 'edge', for lack of a better word, to Red's character whatsoever.

And this is coming from someone who ranks Shawshank as one of his all-time favorite movies!

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[–] Heisenberg (6367) 4 years ago

Yes, I love the movie too.
The seven dwarf comparison is a funny one.
Interesting comment, thanks for chiming in.

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[–] CaptainCrozier (599) 4 years ago

No problem.

I think a better example of a prison movie that humanizes hardened criminals while remaining realistic would be Escape From Alcatraz with Clint Eastwood. In that film Frank Morris and the Anglin brothers come off as just likeable enough to endear themselves to the audience while simultaneously putting out the vibes of rough, violent men who should not be on the streets.

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[–] Heisenberg (6367) 4 years ago

Yes, and EFA is a great film too, certainly inspired this.
But even the old man that chops off his fingers is more edgy than the guys in Shawhank.
Obviously EFA and Siegel are going for gritty over idealistic.

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[–] ATG6 (3000) 3 years ago

With age comes wisdom, grasshopper.

When you're young, every little thing bothers you. After a certain age, you start to realize what's important and what isn't.

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[–] Heisenberg (6367) 3 years ago

Ok but as far as I know inmates rarely turn out to be Ghandi or Socrates. They have horrible circumstances on a daily bases to deal with, and have to toughen up to survive.
Like a wild animal, they have little chance to be open minded or understanding. They are trying to survive. Getting older can only frustrate that even more, I think.

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[–] TalkinPikchorBox (2250) 4 years ago

It was different back then.

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