MovieChat Forums > Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981) Discussion > Why nuking the fridge and not riding the...

Why nuking the fridge and not riding the sub?


Just to be clear: this is the greatest action movie ever, and one of the best film in history.
Crystall Skull is a giant turd not worth even mentioning in the same post.

But I wanna play the turd's advocate and ask you: why is nuking the fridge jumping the shark, while riding the sub is, instead, almost cool?

I admit, the fact that he holds onto a submarine never bothered me that much, I thought when I saw it when I was 8 "that doesn't make sense, did he go inside? What happened there". But then he's in the sub base and I was already thinking "how's he gonna get the ark from there?". I kinda brushed it off as an awesome stunt that he pulled off somehow.

But to be frank, it's as much BS as nuking the fridge, it's not realistic inside its movie world. So why do you think one is internationally ridiculed as an epic fail and the other is barely mentioned?

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There is a lot in the Indiana Jones franchise that is hard to digest. I mean the submarine scene is too I guess, but at least you could suggest that the submarine never submerged and that's how Indy made it out alive.

I think a lot of it is to do with how it's presented on film. The idea of Indy getting into a lead-lined fridge to survive a nuclear blast is one thing, but to show the fridge flying through the air, seemingly the only object from that fake town that is seen flying that far, right above the bad guys in their car, then bouncing around with Indy falling out alive, is another.

Take for example the scene of Indy being dragged along the ground by the truck. In real life this would leave Indy as a bloody and bruised mess, yet we can buy it to an extent because they recreated it using actual stunt work. No such stunt work for the fridge scene, mainly because of how over the top it is. But then Crystal Skull had several of these OTT scenes that could have been jump the shark moments. The vine swinging with monkeys and Marian's driving a car over a cliff onto a tree, were just as bad.

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I know about the notoriety of the fridge incident,
but I didnt even know "riding the sub" was a thing
What the hell are you talking about?
There was no implication the sub submerged , It was pretty unlikely it would do , for a multitude of reasons, as Strntz so eloquently explained.

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The main implication of the sub submerging, could be....that it is a sub?!?
It's like showing some killer holding a gun hiding at night in the dark behind the curtains, then a woman comes in the same room unknowingly, then cut to the image of her on the floor dead, bleeding. And then you explain that she was murdered with a knife. Would you say "Yes, I was expecting that. There was no implication that the gun would be used to kill her"?

Everybody watching Raiders wandered the same question I asked. The explainations given here to me make sense.
They are not exactly glaring nor what the movie tells us, though, as the obvious thought you would think is that the sub submerged.

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Suppose they transported the Ark using a battle ship instead, and Indy hid in the gun barrel...
Would you be saying "why are they not firing the gun?"

The answer is the same in both circumstances - they are not in combat.
Like strntz said.

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I know that that's the answer and I think it's a plausible answer. Only the movie didn't make that clear.
Not only that, it uses a clearly ambiguous vehicle to transport the Ark. Like I said in one of my previous posts, it could have been just another tanker, no? But it looks more awesome if there's a sub involved, and Spielberg was going for the awesome idea. And he clearly wanted it to be awesome that Indy jumps on a sub just like that to chase the Ark.

On top of that, just to cut to the chase about your argument "it's not war time", which is idiotic if I think about it: ok, this sub in the movie does not submerge. Because Indy is just that lucky. Fine.
But what if it did? What was Indy's plan in that case? To swim across the mediterranean sea because it's such fun? You do realize that means certain death, don't you? So, for your argument's sake, you want to imply that Indy was 100% positive this particular sub was NOT going down because......? Why? Does the movie explain that?
Is it really because it's not wartime? Like subs never do drills or exercise sumbersion during peace time, right?
If this one does not submerge because of that reason (or any other reason), I think we should know as the viewers, and know that Indy knows that too for certain.
Look, even in the fridge scene, at least they took the time to explain that it was lead lined, to make it "plausible" and make Indy look a bit sane. I wish this submarine moment was better written and explained to us.

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There was no implication the sub submerged , It was pretty unlikely it would do , for a multitude of reasons, as Strntz so eloquently explained.
Pretty sure the captain gives the "dive" command in German.

EDIT: It's really bad German, but they give the command to dive and put up the periscope.

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There was no implication the sub submerged , It was pretty unlikely it would do , for a multitude of reasons, as Strntz so eloquently explained.

You mean other than the fact that we see and hear the captain giving the order to dive?

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The novelization does explain this part. The submarine actually does submerge, but it only goes just below the surface so that its periscope is still sticking out of water. Indy ties himself to the periscope with his whip and falls asleep. I'm not joking.

EDIT: Apparently this was also in the original screenplay and it also made it to the Marvel Comics adaptation.

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Janelsenor, thanks for the info, finally we know the official version of facts.
It's quite bad writing unfortunately, I'm glad they tried to minimize it in the film.
Thanks again!

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No problem. I agree that it was best the movie just glossed over this.

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Why would the sub submerge if it's not wartime? Ever hear of bad weather, stormy seas?

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Don't ask me. Ask the writers.

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I recall hearing about that. It is, insane as it sounds, the only way it could be done. Frankly, I find myself imagining something like this... "Captain, the periscope is not rotating freely." "Here, let me try that... Hmm... Feels odd, Let's surface and check. We may have snagged a net or something."
If the sub stayed on the surface there would always be lookouts. Even if it is peacetime and off the lanes of commerce, there would always be two or more guys on the conning tower watching for... anything. (Two guys with binoculars are far better than one guy peering through the periscope.) Ship captains are not in the habit of saying things like "Well, there's no traffic around here and virtually no possibility of floating debris... Full ahead! Now let's all take the night off."

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[deleted]

Yes this all makes sense, it's all correct and a great analysis.

I think this whole sub fiasco comes from Spielberg being a dickhead, who, instead of thinking "this is ludicrous, let's have him board a nazi ship", opted for "Subs are cool! So let's put one in my movie, Indy jumps on a submarine chasing the mcguffin, har har har, that is so out there I gotta shoot it!".

What I mean is, while the logic of it follows exactly what you wrote, being totally explicable, for a viewer it makes as much sense as the fridge.
The movie could have explained that the sub never actually submerged, and that in peace time they stay on surface level, or like you mentioned, that it saves time and it's safer to stay on top. Or even better, it could have been just a regular ship so no problems there. Instead, we have this cartoonish action for no other reason than what I wrote in the previous paragraph.

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[deleted]

Loved your idea, that is clearly a script for a better movie and not that insulting pile of gopher shit that travesty was.
I'm thinking, but your writing here is much better, Indy could have just entered the fridge, than the blast, then it fades to black and he's getting showered against radiation. Like, be less literal and just show the lead lined tag as an excuse.
We don't know how he survived. It's shit, but after they deftly cornered themselves in that impossible situation, at least they don't try to get away explaining it with some kindergarten logic.

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I think this whole sub fiasco comes from Spielberg being a dickhead, who, instead of thinking "this is ludicrous, let's have him board a nazi ship", opted for "Subs are cool! So let's put one in my movie, Indy jumps on a submarine chasing the mcguffin, har har har, that is so out there I gotta shoot it!".


That's all true, but let's consider the average movie goer back then. What did they know about pre-war Nazi Germany's military? They had sharp uniforms (admit it), they had a superb front line airforce and a first rate mechanized ground assault. Who doesn't know the FW-190 and ME262, or the Panzer tanks. What they didn't have was a very good surface fleet, but everyone knows about the feared German U-Boats. Several movies have either featured them prominently or were the focus of the story.

When we think of Nazi military, U-Boats do come to mind, and they were fearsome. The amount of tonnage they sunk in the early parts of WWII are staggering.

Also, the sub used in this film was just used in Das Boot, so they had a working U-Boat at their disposal.

If you think about it, I don't know if the Arc and the way it was crated would have fit down the hatch. I don't remember if there were any other service ports other than the hatch on the conning tower.

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Yes U boat are a staple of nazi machinery and Spielbergo liked the movie of such name. What you wrote is all right.
It is all good, but the action this U boat is involved with makes little sense, particularly Indy hitching a hike.
Also, like you mentioned, they use it as a freight, I doubt that has ever happened.

But going along with this BS idea, if you are the nazi and call up a U boat to carry such a super important container, wouldn't you want to disappear underwater and be as invisible as possible?

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But going along with this BS idea, if you are the nazi and call up a U boat to carry such a super important container, wouldn't you want to disappear underwater and be as invisible as possible?


Yes, if I thought there was an immediate threat, but this was late 30s and there was no war. No nation on Earth, most particularly isolationist America, would try to board or fire on the sub of another sovereign nation.

Additionally, the limitations of WWII diesel powered subs make the trip fully submerged impossible. The trip the sub made by the U-Boat to the island was something like 1200 miles IIRC. WWII era diesel subs could only stay submerged and run on batteries for a hundred miles or so before resurfacing to run the diesels to recharge the batteries.

Now, they could submerge to just below the surface to run the diesels, but they still left telltale exhaust smoke and the wake could still be seen under good conditions.

If they wanted to make that whole trip submerged, they would have had to do it at periscope depth unless under direct attack. At periscope depth, Indy could have held onto the periscope.


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Allright, thanks for the in depth tech info. I wish Spielberg hinted at some of that in the film.

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wtf is this bs thread?

The sub doesnt have to go under water. In fact it's not seen doing that at all.

To compare this to a 0% chance of survival against an atomic blast by hiding inside of a refrigerator - when every other refrigerator in the town was destroyed - only to be flung several kilometres away and also survive is ridiculous.

What is with people and FALSE EQUIVALENCE these days?

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I always assumed that he somehow sneaked inside the sub (perhaps in the top hatch and he got out whenever they re-emerged. But there other possibilities such as tying himself to the periscope as the novelization states; or maybe the submarine just never submerged; the film never really shows it.

I think the key difference is there are POSSIBLE explanation of how Indy did it that even if implausible you can stretch to accept them. Nuking the fridge we are explicitly shown and there is no acceptable explanation for how he survived it.

AS you say, there are ways he could survive the submarine or even the raft out of the plane; no matter what the chances were they could be better than 0%. Surviving a atomic bomb by hiding in a refrigerator has a 0% chance.

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What is with people having a pole up their ass these days? Relax dude!
The fridge is total BS and everybody knows it. The sub is never mentioned, even if it's as preposterous an idea to "ride a submarine". I'm just arguing it should have been better explained/written.
Many agree with me. Everybody else is giving a reasonable explaination about why is riding the sub possible. I agree with them. This is called chatting. This is movie CHAT. Go figure....

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In triplea's defense; have you seen some of the posters on this board? It is hard to know if someone is opening a discussion in good faith or just being an asshole.

I don't think that The sub stuff needed more explanation because however it was done it was off screen; we can assume it was possible somehow but we are not shown and it was not really 'essential' to explain how. With the Nuke the fridge we are explicitly shown him in the blast and we all know it is impossible for him to survive that, so the issue is there is NO acceptable explanation where with the sub there are even if you have to stretch to accept them.

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Well I disagree with the need to explain this action. Infact it was quite needed, if you stop just a second and think about it.
Like I said in my OP, it didn't bother me at first, but if you think about it, it needs to be explained. I've seen Raiders at least 30 times, and I love it, but this is poor writing.

I agree that nuking the fridge is impossible, but this is also not that realistic.

BTW, everybody here, me included, are accepting the preposterous feat of "holding on to something outside a sailing sub and making it no problem, as long as it doesn't submerge". That is also BS, as the trip to the island was quite a long one, and standing outside a sailing sub in the middle of the ocean is no picnic. He would probably freeze to death, or get pneumonia at least.

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Like I said in my first reply: "I always assumed that he somehow sneaked inside the sub (perhaps in the top hatch and he got out whenever they re-emerge" Back then there was no electronic warning system to say the hatch was opened and no one would likely check the top hatch if someone stowed away in there. That to me is the most likely explanation.

I don't think or agree it is bad writing because it wasn't really needed or essential to the plot moving forward at worst you can say it is a anomaly that doesn't hold up well under scrutiny but because it has no barring on the plot itself it is a 'minor' complaint.

The one thing you can say is he would have been totally malnourished by the time he arrived. It was a long trip without even water to drink; he would likely be near death by the time he arrived depending on how long it took.

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You are trying to compare a 'nitpick' to 'completely ludicrous' and pretending it is a valid argument.

This is why I mentioned false equivalence.

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The sub doesnt have to go under water. In fact it's not seen doing that at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8LDp1hgWVY
The man with the white cap is the captain - only he wears the white cap. Here are the words he is speaking:
"Tauchen. Tauchen das Boot."
Which means:
"Dive. Dive the boat."

The order is repeated, and we actually see the crew turning the wheels to the ballast tanks.

Also: when Indy climbs up on the uboat, there are no crewmen topside. There are always crew topside, unless they are preparing to dive.

We also see the periscope in use. No point in using the periscope when surfaced. That's what you have the lookouts for, they can see better through binoculars than anyone can see through a periscope.

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I won't speak for everybody but in my case: the submarine situation doesn't automatically strikes as a major issue. Actually, before you mentioned it to, I had never even given it a thought. Now that I'm aware, it does look like a flaw. However, Indy could possibly be lucky and that Germans would had decided to not emerge. It is risky, but not impossible. So, it is way easier to ignore and simply enjoy the ride. Plus, it happens so quickly that you might not even have the time to realize how it might be inconvenient.

The fridge, on another hand, is easy to see the absurdity of the situation. Anyone with a minimal knowledge about atomic bombs will automatically see how ridiculous and impossible it is. Anything (or almost... assuming it doesn't turn to dust due to the explosion) thrown so far by an atomic bomb explosion would either break in piece, are at the very least kill a person with the impact. And the tip of the iceberg is the fact that Indy simply comes out of the fridge without any scratch.

So, yeah, the submarine is easier to overlook.

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Yeah, all true, but there is some elegance the way they put that sub scene there and just moved on to the next scene like it was no big deal.

With the nuking scene instead, they believed it would be just a great cherry on top to the beginning sequence.
It's such a major atomic fail from Spielberg and Lucas it would take them a lead lined fridge to survive it:-)

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the nuke fridge is one of the least of Skull's problems

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Maybe this will calm down some people...

https://youtu.be/cUtkNMmVDqU?t=382

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Yes great stuff!
But doesn't solve much, it adds fodder to the topic: most of those scenes were left out for a reason...thank god they didn't use the one with the periscope!
Holy crap, that looks so stupid it's on another dimension of stupidity than just imagining about it. One thing would be to do that for a half an hour trip around the bay maybe, not for an oceanic overnight sail like they show in the map.
But it's exactly what I mean: they NEEDED to explain it, so they shot that scene. But editing it they realized it looks incredibly dumb and it's probably better left unexplained.
And they were right!

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Well at least it's solved, they thought about it - even if it looks silly on film.

The fridge is impossible.

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