MovieChat Forums > Meghan Markle Discussion > why so much black symbolism at the weddi...

why so much black symbolism at the wedding?


I mean, I didn't actually watch it, but saw it mentioned on cnn.com

It's just that when I look at her, I don't even see someone black, so why put such an emphasis on it?

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The media has to inject race into everything, that’s why I avoid it if I can.

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Not sure how it's the media's fault - there was a lot of African tribal stuff at her wedding.

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The media didn’t have to point it out, they of course can’t help themselves because in 2018 we’re still talking about skin color 24/7.

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African tribal stuff is not about skin color as much as it's about heritage and tradition, and I just don't see her identifying so strongly with any of that, but perhaps it's just me.

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"African tribal stuff"
Really?

First of all, a black person is black no matter how they identify. Rachel Dolezal identified strongly as a black woman, but she is still white.

You appear clueless about African-American heritage, history and culture which may be why you don't understand how Meghan identifies with it. Don't forget that children are usually brought up in their mother's culture since they are the ones doing most of the nurturing.

Lastly, there was no "African tribal stuff" at the wedding. The head of the American Episcopal church gave a sermon. He happens to be black. A mainly black British gospel choir sang a rock song (rock was invented by Black people in case you don't know) as well as a young black cellist played. Everything else was royal British tradition. The ceremony blended American and British culture.

The wedding:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThUmZS0PNI8

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Rock was invented by black people? Okay, now I heard it all.

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How come I'm not surprised that you didn't know anything about the history of rock and roll?

Originally, whites didn't want rock and roll to be played on the radio because of its black origins. it was referred to pejoratively as jungle music.

Wikipedia:
"Rock and roll (often written as rock & roll or rock 'n' roll) is a genre of popular music that originated and evolved in the United States during the late 1940s and early 1950s[1][2] from African American musical styles such as gospel, jump blues, jazz, boogie woogie, and rhythm and blues,[3] along with country music"

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I couldn't possibly care less what surprises you and what doesn't.

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You just learned something. You're welcome.

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Keelai is correct about pointing out the origins of rock music.
It may seem irrelevant today, especially to you, but guys like Elvis and Jerry Lee were bringing the Devil's Music to white audiences, to much consternation. And before that, black musicians were informing popular white acts how to swing and use blues scales to bring a comfortable authenticity to their sound.
Maybe saying Rock was invented by black people is over simplifying, but it's essentially true.

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I guess you never heard of guys like Bo Diddley, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, etc.

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The wedding ceremony was a combination of both of their cultures, British and African-American. Successful marriages work by compromising and sharing what each partner brings to it.

BTW, not all black people "look black".

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As I stated above, I don't see her identifying so strongly with any of it.

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What else would black people look like?

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https://www.google.com/search?q=gabrielle+reece&client=firefox-b-ab&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwickZOH7JTbAhWCk1kKHeO4AJgQ_AUICigB&biw=1024&bih=635#imgrc=x2J7mw0BSub6HM:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Jennifer+Beals&client=firefox-b&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjEhYTa65TbAhXOpFkKHW3IDQ0Q_AUICigB&biw=1024&bih=635

https://www.google.com/search?q=Wentworth+Miller&client=firefox-b-ab&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjGqse18JTbAhWLnFkKHaVqCVoQ_AUICygC&biw=1024&bih=635

http://www.whosdatedwho.com/dating/tai-babilonia

A long time ago I read an article about Steadman Graham's (Oprah's boyfriend) extended family. It said that for generations many in his family would only marry light-complexioned black people. they had photos in which many of his relatives could easily pass for white.

In answer to your question Black people come in all shades, hair textures and facial features. Black people can look white, Indian, Hispanic, etc.

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LOL

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Sorry, but all I see are white bi-racial people. That's not how this works. You're telling me that merely having black DNA in your gene-pool makes you black? By that logic the entire human race is black since we originated from Africa.

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In American history, there are black people (both parents black) who were able to pass for white. It was called "passing" or "passing for white" .

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2017/11/20/my-mother-spent-her-life-passing-as-white-discovering-her-secret-changed-my-view-of-race-and-myself/?utm_term=.978c670a846f

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/10/07/354310370/a-chosen-exile-black-people-passing-in-white-america

This actress never passed, but played a character who did. I saw her movie and only now found out she was actually black in real life.
https://www.myajc.com/lifestyles/fredi-washington-imitation-life-well-served/ZgviUcPPiZUqskSzeHvY2K/

All blacks have white ancestry. All whites have black ancestry including the British royal family. There are no pure races. If you haven't, I suggest you do a DNA test.

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From your first article:

In the silence of those 17 years, I tried to break through my mother’s wall of silence. But every time I tried, she politely but firmly changed the subject. Her refusal to talk about her mixed race only fueled my curiosity. How had she deceived my racist white father? Why was she so fearful and ashamed of her black heritage?


These aren't black people. They're bi-racial. They were only legally classified as black because of the one drop rule. Stop acting so uneducated.

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You misread. Her mother was black who passed as white to marry her white father.

You're in denial if you don't know there are black people who look white. Also, bi-racial people are considered black in the United States, anyway.

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No I didn't. I just quoted her. "Her (the mother's) refusal to talk about her (the mother still) mixed race only fueled my (the daughter's) curiosity." How did I misread that?

Black people literally can't look white unless they aren't pure black. It's genetically impossible. That's biology. No race is capable of transcending the laws of biology.

Also, bi-racial people are considered black only if they look black. They aren't considered black if they look white. Halle Berry is black. Halsey is white. Even though they are both bi-racial.

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'Black people literally can't look white unless they aren't pure black."
I already said that. All blacks have mixed ancestry which is why there are different complexions, features and hair textures.

The family and actress in my prior post had black parents even though they can pass.

"Also, bi-racial people are considered black only if they look black. "
That's not true. My uncle had fair skin, blond hair and blue eyes yet colored is on his birth certificate and black on his death certificate.

My guess is you've become uncomfortable because you just found out you can't always identify a black person by looks. LOL.

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"I already said that. All blacks have mixed ancestry which is why there are different complexions, features and hair textures."

No you didn't. You said I'm in denial if I don't know there there are blacks that look white. To which I said there are no blacks that look white. There are only bi-racials who look white. Stop flipflopping.

And not all blacks have mixed ancestry. African Americans do, but not all blacks do. There's no evidence in the world to suggest that Africans have any white DNA in them at all.

Any difference in skin tone means difference in region. There's an entire continent that gets different degrees of sun that are responsible for the varying features in Africans.

Scandinavians are white, but so are Italians, and Spaniards. Even though their features differ substantially. get it?

"That's not true. My uncle had fair skin, blond hair and blue eyes yet colored is on his birth certificate and black on his death certificate. "

We already went over this. The one drop rule could mean that anyone is black if there is just one single black relative. If you are seriously suggesting that you are only as black or white as your birth and death certificates say, you're mental.

"My guess is you've become uncomfortable because you just found out you can't always identify a black person by looks. LOL.

I didn't find that out. What I found out is that you are desperate to make white people black.

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"No you didn't."
My prior post contradicts you:
"All blacks have white ancestry. All whites have black ancestry including the British royal family. There are no pure races. If you haven't, I suggest you do a DNA test."

The one drop rule is stupid and racist.

A person can be a majority of one race, but it's not going to be 100% which is all I'm saying.

"There's no evidence in the world to suggest that Africans have any white DNA in them at all."
There's plenty of evidence through DNA, anthropological studies and other scientific studies. People have traveled and intermarried since the dawn of time.
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/05/theres-no-such-thing-pure-european-or-anyone-else

"Scandinavians are white, but so are Italians, and Spaniards."
You don't appear to know that Europe was invaded during 700 A.D. by the Moors who were black which is why you see a difference in tones and features. There have also been other migrations throughout European history.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26TW2iMCook

You keep mentioning biracial. Racial features can also skip generations. A child can inherit features from a grandparent, great-grandparent or farther back.

"What I found out is that you are desperate to make white people black."
White people are white.
Black people come in different tones and features. If you want to be specific, most biracial people identify as black in the United States. Historically, mixed race persons were considered black legally and culturally in the U.S. no matter what they looked like.

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"My prior post contradicts you:"

No it doesn't. All blacks do not have white ancestry, just black Americans do. Africans do not. You're making shit up on the spot that doesn't have any grounding in reality.

"he one drop rule is stupid and racist. "

Yes. It is. That's the point. I'm saying you can be white and still have black DNA. Or be black and still have white DNA. You're the one calling white bi-racial people black. You're the one adhering to the white drop rule.

"A person can be a majority of one race, but it's not going to be 100% which is all I'm saying."

Then why do you continue to refer to bi-racial people as black?

"There's plenty of evidence through DNA, anthropological studies and other scientific studies. People have traveled and intermarried since the dawn of time."

From the article you posted:

"Today, almost all humans outside Africa carry traces of archaic DNA."

Literally what I told you verbatim. Maybe start checking your sources before making a fool of yourself.

"You don't appear to know that Europe was invaded during 700 A.D. by the Moors who were black which is why you see a difference in tones and features. There have also been other migrations throughout European history."

Nothing I said infers I don't know about the Moors. What I said was that the difference in complexion between Scandinavians and Mediterraneans is a result of their location on the map. You seem to be reaching to conclusions that haven't yet been made in order to validate your argument.

"You keep mentioning biracial. Racial features can also skip generations. A child can inherit features from a grandparent, great-grandparent or farther back."

But as the generations go on, chances of those features skipping generations only increases. Eventually to the point that they are no longer part of the gene pool anymore. Which is why Italians are still white and lack black features.

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Europeans, Asians and Africans have traveled throughout Africa since the dawn of time trading, exchanging culture, religion, intermarrying, etc.

Look at this trade route of Ancient Rome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romans_in_Sub-Saharan_Africa

Do you know anything about the spread of Islam throughout Africa?

Or trading that was done in ancient African Empires like Mali, Timbuktu or the Songhai Empire?


"I'm saying you can be white and still have black DNA. Or be black and still have white DNA."
Agreed.

"What I said was that the difference in complexion between Scandinavians and Mediterraneans is a result of their location on the map. "
Are you saying my tone will change if I move to a different location? That's silly. Tone has to do with ancestry.

"Which is why Italians are still white and lack black features."
Sicilians have darker features because their ancestry is different from Northern Italians.

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"Do you know anything about the spread of Islam throughout Africa?

Or trading that was done in ancient African Empires like Mali, Timbuktu or the Songhai Empire?"

Yeah? And?

"Agreed."

No. Not agreed. Your entire argument has been antithetical to that.

"Are you saying my tone will change if I move to a different location? That's silly. Tone has to do with ancestry. "

No idiot, That's not how evolution works. You are just one generation. We're talking hundreds of generations. Africans turned white thousands of years ago as a result of traveling north to the Caucasus mountains with less sun and colder weather. Which led to a decrease in melanin production. That's why white people are called Caucasian.

"Sicilians have darker features because their ancestry is different from Northern Italians."

Partly true, but it's also because they're located in the southernmost part of the boot. Sicilians that were being raped by the moors 400 years ago would have given birth to much darker children at the time. Today they're mostly indistinguishable from their northern cousins.

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Your argument:
"No it doesn't. All blacks do not have white ancestry, just black Americans do. Africans do not. You're making shit up on the spot that doesn't have any grounding in reality."

My previous post showed the migration of various people throughout Africa which shows your above statement to be ignorant. I repeat, there are no pure races.

LOL. That's not how evolution works.

"Today they're mostly indistinguishable from their northern cousins."
Then, you don't know too many northern and southern Italians if you think they're indistinguishable.

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"My previous post showed the migration of various people throughout Africa which shows your above statement to be ignorant. I repeat, there are no pure races. "

Except for Africans. As per your article.

"LOL. That's not how evolution works."

That's exactly how evolution works. You clearly don't have a lick of education about anything you're talking about.

"Then, you don't know too many northern and southern Italians if you think they're indistinguishable."

My family is Italian on my mother's side. I know exactly what I'm talking about. However, between you posting two articles that actually serve to prove my point, and not knowing a single thing about the Caucasus mountains and its role in the white race, you clearly have proven yourself to be one of the most idiotic people on the board.

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The migration is in Africa. You'll want to work on your reading comprehension.

Evolution doesn't happen because of location. It happens because of mutation. If the mutation is beneficial, then the offspring is more likely to survive and reproduce.

There are Sicilians in my family. I have no problem telling them a part from northern Italians who made up a large part of my neighborhood, school and job.

You've about to write something "Archie Bunker dumb" about the Caucasus mountains, aren't you?

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"The migration is in Africa. You'll want to work on your reading comprehension."

Right. Migration FROM Africa, to everywhere else. The original hominids came from Africa. All other shades came after. Got it?

"Evolution doesn't happen because of location. It happens because of mutation."

And how in the living fuck do you think the mutation happens in the first place moron? You think white people just suddenly popped onto the face of the earth? As if God decided to season his creation with salt?

Why do white Mediterranean people have darker features than northern whites from Scandinavia? Why is it that the shades of white typically brighten the more north you go. From brown eyes and black hair, to blue eyes, and blonde hair? Is it supposed to be just some random coincidence that polar bears and arctic foxes have white fur?

"There are Sicilians in my family. I have no problem telling them a part from northern Italians who made up a large part of my neighborhood, school and job. "

Anecdotes won't get us anywhere. I feel like this part of the conversation has eroded into a game of comparing opinions like it's a dick measuring contest.

"You've about to write something "Archie Bunker dumb" about the Caucasus mountains, aren't you?"

There's nothing I can say about the Caucasus mountains that can match your level of stupidity.

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You're as dumb as a wall. You should really be on the Trump boards supporting him.

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"White people are white.
Black people come in different tones and features. "

Totally. A ginger, a blonde, a brunette, with green eyes, blue eyes, and brown eyes, with olive skin, tanned skin, or alabaster skin, are all the same. No difference in shades, tones, or features among whites at all.

"If you want to be specific, most biracial people identify as black in the United States. Historically, mixed race persons were considered black legally and culturally in the U.S. no matter what they looked like. "

It's still kind of treated that same way, only now it's much more arbitrary. There is no one drop rule anymore. If you look white, you're white. If you look black, you're black. It all depends on which side has the dominant genes.

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"If you look white, you're white."

There are plenty of black people or mixed race people who look white but don't identify that way which is all I'm saying.

Historically in the U.S., there were laws that stated if you were 1/2, 1/4 or 1/8 black, than you were black and subject to the same discriminatory laws that other blacks faced.

I'm not talking about the one drop rule which wasn't really used much since even the lawmakers knew that many Southern whites had black ancestry and would be classified as such. It wasn't uncommon for mixed race to pass themselves off as white when the law said otherwise.

As white as Meghan looks, it didn't prevent the British press from being extremely racist towards her. Prince Harry had to tell them to back off.

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"There are plenty of black people or mixed race people who look white but don't identify that way which is all I'm saying."

No. All you were saying is that if you have a drop of black DNA, that you were then black. This whole time, that has been your argument. And quite frankly, it's not up to them to decide how the world sees them.

"Historically in the U.S., there were laws that stated if you were 1/2, 1/4 or 1/8 black, than you were black and subject to the same discriminatory laws that other blacks faced."

What does that have to do with the topic?

"I'm not talking about the one drop rule which wasn't really used much since even the lawmakers knew that many Southern whites had black ancestry and would be classified as such. It wasn't uncommon for mixed race to pass themselves off as white when the law said otherwise."

OK? And?

"As white as Meghan looks, it didn't prevent the British press from being extremely racist towards her. Prince Harry had to tell them to back off."

Not seeing what any of this has to do with the topic we're discussing.

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No, I'm saying:
"There are plenty of black people or mixed race people who look white but don't identify that way which is all I'm saying."

I disagreed with your comment that a black person cannot look white and I still do.

History influences the present. If you were more knowledgeable about American history, than you wouldn't be so confused about how black people perceive themselves in the present and the reasons behind it.

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That's NOT what you said. Going back to the very first post I replied to of yours, you said "not all black people look black". Verbatim. Those were you words. Then I questioned you about it asking "what else would black people look like"? To which you responded with a bunch of links to white looking bi-racial people living a long time ago. You categorized these people as black just for having some black DNA.

You keep on contradicting yourself. A black person can't look white without being white. It's like saying canine looking feline.

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I linked black people with two black parents also which you have conveniently forgotten.

I suggest you reread the posts since you're lacking in reading comprehension skills.

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No, they were bi-racial. I pointed and quoted your very article on it.

I suggest you start heeding your own advice because you presented me with two articles in attempt at proving me wrong, only to end up proving me right.

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Fredi Washington and the family of Dr. Albert Johnson are black.

It should be obvious the reason why Duchess Meghan had so much black symbolism at the wedding is because she identifies as black and is saying that she's proud of it. This supports my original comment which was that most biracial (black/white) people identify in the U.S. as black no matter what they look like.

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Aren't they biracial? Lol

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Like you didn't see someone who was white when you looked at obama? He was biracial too but....hardly ever mentioned. His mother was white.

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Obama looks black to me.

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Oops, you're right. I have to stop skimming :o/

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If she's so proud to be black why did she try so hard to erase every black feature from her face and looks? And why did she marry a white man? absolutely insane.

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I have to admit I don't know anything about her, and she was never on my radar prior to the royal wedding - did she have a lot of plastic surgery?

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Look up the video of her on youtube when she was 11 and on the news or something. She had an afro, a wide nose and darker skin.

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She was living in sunny California when she was 11 which could easily explain her darker skin tone. As an adult, she worked in Canada for Suits which has a milder climate.
Her skin tone looks the same as now to me. She has cute freckles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfaGleA4qYo

Her hair is curly, not kinky. Curly hair is OK for a child, but a young adult woman, black or white, is more likely to wear a smooth style especially an actress.

Her nose was too big for her face. Again, she wanted to have an acting career. Her nose looks the same, just in proportion. It's not pointy. And her bridge is still broad.

There are white actresses who have their lips thickened because thin lips aren't considered acceptable anymore in show biz. Do they want to be black or just have a career?

Stop expecting her to meet a stereotype as to how you believe she should look or behave.

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The nose looks exactly the same to me (although I don't think it's too big for her face).

Her hair is extremely frizzy, not the nice kind of curly - I can see why she's been straightening it since a young age.

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It's a non-issue. Anyone with a brain doesn't care about this thread.
And when I say this, for the first time I checked out what was happening on the MM site, curious about what people are saying. I seriously doubt anyone cares about her Blackness except it seems to be a break from Royal tradition, and that would seem to be a good thing. Don't know what she's like as a person, but she's very pretty.

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Well, the reason I opened this thread is because to me personally it seems insincere that she would really care that much about her supposed blackness, and quite a bit overplayed.

I mean, not that I actually care (certainly not about her), it just bothers me when things are done purely for the sake of political correctness.

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But how someone chooses to arrange their wedding is an act of Political Correctness?
Would it be PC to ask Aretha Franklin to sing at your affair?
If she is genuinely attached to Gospel music and the Black Church (sorry if that's the wrong way to put it), she's entitled to express that, especially at her wedding.
I realize this is a Very Public Affair, but still.

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I found an interesting article that attempts to answer that question. It's worth a read.

An excerpt:
"...Meghan’s blackness has been up for debate and it shouldn’t be. She identifies as biracial, as is her right, but the world sees her as black. Even though her skin is light and her hair is straight, she’s still had to deal with bigotry from the press and even from members of her new family. There were questions leading up to the wedding about whether Meghan was trying to disassociate herself from her blackness. Again, that was before everyone knew how black this wedding would be.

Yes, it was a celebration of love but it was also a blatant showcase of black excellence. It was Meghan Markle showing the world watching (all the people who have questioned her identity) and the world she was marrying into (one that has typically excluded black people) that her blackness not only exists but that she’s DAMN PROUD of it..."

Full article:
http://www.laineygossip.com/this-black-royal-wedding-was-very-complicated-for-me-as-a-black-woman/49955

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Does the world really see her as black, though? If I didn't know who she was and just randomly saw her in the street, I would have thought Hispanic.

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Of course it does.

The British press didn't hesitate to do vile racist and stereotyped articles about her. Prince Harry had to tell them to stop. Prince Charles own cousin wore racist jewelry while meeting Meghan for the first time. Needless to say that she wasn't invited to the wedding. A German news station recently got into trouble because of how they fixated on her race while reporting the wedding.

I don't care how light-skinned a black person is, the world doesn't let them forget that they are black.

Many Hispanics are part black. Maybe that's why she looked Hispanic to you.

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No, it's mainly because her features don't look in any way African to me.

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She looks black to me. I know many black people who look like her.

I'm surprised by how open-minded and hospitable most of the royal family has been. The racist British tabloids are another story. They're still sleazy. You'd think they would've learned after killing Prince Harry's mother.

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Diana killed herself.

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